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Imagine tanking
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SupremeCommander
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9/12/2017  12:54 PM
nixluva wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:we need to draft a stud... even if Frank and Willy and THJ all go supernova, we still need another ace with the way the league is. We need a guy like Doncic or Porter to have a realistic chance of one day doing anything of note

That said don't expect the Knicks to intentionally Tank this season. The team wants to win and Mills, Perry and Jeff want to win. I wouldn't expect a team that isn't clawing and scratching to win games early in the season.

Also the Knicks can find a STUD outside of a Doncic or other top 5 pick. Steph Curry and Klay weren't top 5 picks. IMO the Knicks need to develop the young talent they have and continue to scout and draft well no matter where they draft at.

I didn't say that the Knicks are going to try and pull a Philly

fishmike said: Yes. Sometimes I confuse the alerts with when your mom calls. BTW she said defensive guards are really important.
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SupremeCommander
Posts: 31793
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9/12/2017  12:55 PM
Knickoftime wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:we need to draft a stud... even if Frank and Willy and THJ all go supernova, we still need another ace with the way the league is. We need a guy like Doncic or Porter to have a realistic chance of one day doing anything of note

THIS entire thread is about how do we go about getting that stud, FA, tank, or trade. To me tanking is the worse option

I think the underrated entertainment factor in his position is he has no confidence in the Knicks coaching staff or their two best players.

oh my goodness... you make it sound like I think these guys are damned to be scrubs forever

I just don't think our team is better than eight others in the East. Do you? Name the teams we will beat out for a playoff spot.

fishmike said: Yes. Sometimes I confuse the alerts with when your mom calls. BTW she said defensive guards are really important.
nixluva
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9/12/2017  1:01 PM
SupremeCommander wrote:
nixluva wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:we need to draft a stud... even if Frank and Willy and THJ all go supernova, we still need another ace with the way the league is. We need a guy like Doncic or Porter to have a realistic chance of one day doing anything of note

That said don't expect the Knicks to intentionally Tank this season. The team wants to win and Mills, Perry and Jeff want to win. I wouldn't expect a team that isn't clawing and scratching to win games early in the season.

Also the Knicks can find a STUD outside of a Doncic or other top 5 pick. Steph Curry and Klay weren't top 5 picks. IMO the Knicks need to develop the young talent they have and continue to scout and draft well no matter where they draft at.

I didn't say that the Knicks are going to try and pull a Philly

Well you specifically mentioned Doncic and Porter. I don't expect the Knicks to end up that high in the Lottery. Heck the Knicks could end up in the playoffs.

Knickoftime
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9/12/2017  1:02 PM
SupremeCommander wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:we need to draft a stud... even if Frank and Willy and THJ all go supernova, we still need another ace with the way the league is. We need a guy like Doncic or Porter to have a realistic chance of one day doing anything of note

THIS entire thread is about how do we go about getting that stud, FA, tank, or trade. To me tanking is the worse option

I think the underrated entertainment factor in his position is he has no confidence in the Knicks coaching staff or their two best players.

oh my goodness... you make it sound like I think these guys are damned to be scrubs forever

I just don't think our team is better than eight others in the East. Do you? Name the teams we will beat out for a playoff spot.

I was actually speaking about knicks1248, not you.

I just realized I wrote "his position" in a reply to him. My bad for the confusion.

SupremeCommander
Posts: 31793
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9/12/2017  1:05 PM
nixluva wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:
nixluva wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:we need to draft a stud... even if Frank and Willy and THJ all go supernova, we still need another ace with the way the league is. We need a guy like Doncic or Porter to have a realistic chance of one day doing anything of note

That said don't expect the Knicks to intentionally Tank this season. The team wants to win and Mills, Perry and Jeff want to win. I wouldn't expect a team that isn't clawing and scratching to win games early in the season.

Also the Knicks can find a STUD outside of a Doncic or other top 5 pick. Steph Curry and Klay weren't top 5 picks. IMO the Knicks need to develop the young talent they have and continue to scout and draft well no matter where they draft at.

I didn't say that the Knicks are going to try and pull a Philly

Well you specifically mentioned Doncic and Porter. I don't expect the Knicks to end up that high in the Lottery. Heck the Knicks could end up in the playoffs.

just respond to what I say, thanks. there is a chance at either considering it is a lotto. When it is inevitable that the Knicks miss the playoffs, I do hope they rest their stars. That is different than Philly... Knicks charge way too much to go full tank mode

fishmike said: Yes. Sometimes I confuse the alerts with when your mom calls. BTW she said defensive guards are really important.
SupremeCommander
Posts: 31793
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9/12/2017  1:06 PM
Knickoftime wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:we need to draft a stud... even if Frank and Willy and THJ all go supernova, we still need another ace with the way the league is. We need a guy like Doncic or Porter to have a realistic chance of one day doing anything of note

THIS entire thread is about how do we go about getting that stud, FA, tank, or trade. To me tanking is the worse option

I think the underrated entertainment factor in his position is he has no confidence in the Knicks coaching staff or their two best players.

oh my goodness... you make it sound like I think these guys are damned to be scrubs forever

I just don't think our team is better than eight others in the East. Do you? Name the teams we will beat out for a playoff spot.

I was actually speaking about knicks1248, not you.

I just realized I wrote "his position" in a reply to him. My bad for the confusion.

no worries - sorry for getting crossed up

fishmike said: Yes. Sometimes I confuse the alerts with when your mom calls. BTW she said defensive guards are really important.
knicks1248
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9/12/2017  1:08 PM
arkrud wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:we need to draft a stud... even if Frank and Willy and THJ all go supernova, we still need another ace with the way the league is. We need a guy like Doncic or Porter to have a realistic chance of one day doing anything of note

THIS entire thread is about how do we go about getting that stud, FA, tank, or trade. To me tanking is the worse option

We tried FA , we tried trade... and both never worked for 20 years...
We tried tank a bit and it always worked.
So what is your point again?

There's no way you can build a contender strictly through the draft, you still have to sign Fa, and make trades, and we don't have a slew of 1st rounders to begin with, not to mention a very smart coaching staff.

The knicks are a 1 step fwd, 2 step back franchise for years. they have not put all of the above together at the same time. what they do is

1)great coach, bull sht roster
2)solid roster BS coach
3)sign one FA star, with a below avg roster
4)solid role players, no star
5)decent young core, then trades them all
6)presidents with personal agendas
7)clueless owner ship
8)more off court drama than any team in sports
9)1 good FA signing, and another horrific FA signing
10)injuries

like I said 1 step fwd, 2 steps back

ES
Knickoftime
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9/12/2017  1:15 PM
knicks1248 wrote:There's no way you can build a contender strictly through the draft, you still have to sign Fa, and make trades,

Of course not. But isn't in dispute. What you can do is draft the core of your team, and then build around your core to complement the squad.

Golden State won a title with the core of three drafted players. They added another player and won another.

Oklahoma City went to the finals with a core of three drafted players.

Given the New York Knicks just added a major free-agent, and the core of this argument is if they should make a major trade not, suggesting anyone is arguing solely draft draft is odd qnd out of place.

arkrud
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9/12/2017  1:17 PM    LAST EDITED: 9/12/2017  1:21 PM
knicks1248 wrote:
arkrud wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:we need to draft a stud... even if Frank and Willy and THJ all go supernova, we still need another ace with the way the league is. We need a guy like Doncic or Porter to have a realistic chance of one day doing anything of note

THIS entire thread is about how do we go about getting that stud, FA, tank, or trade. To me tanking is the worse option

We tried FA , we tried trade... and both never worked for 20 years...
We tried tank a bit and it always worked.
So what is your point again?

There's no way you can build a contender strictly through the draft, you still have to sign Fa, and make trades, and we don't have a slew of 1st rounders to begin with, not to mention a very smart coaching staff.

The knicks are a 1 step fwd, 2 step back franchise for years. they have not put all of the above together at the same time. what they do is

1)great coach, bull sht roster
2)solid roster BS coach
3)sign one FA star, with a below avg roster
4)solid role players, no star
5)decent young core, then trades them all
6)presidents with personal agendas
7)clueless owner ship
8)more off court drama than any team in sports
9)1 good FA signing, and another horrific FA signing
10)injuries

like I said 1 step fwd, 2 steps back

So a lot of work by a group of qualified people over extensive period of time is required.
No different from any other business.
Putting under the microscope just one aspect of this work is useless.
MSG is entertainment company and they used Knicks as a travelling freak show and quite successfully.
The club cost ballooned to 3.5 billions and arena was sold out no matter how crappy the team was.
They know the drama. They know sht about bbal.

He can teach them to meditate... but no one can control even his own mind...
nixluva
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9/12/2017  2:16 PM
SupremeCommander wrote:
nixluva wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:
nixluva wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:we need to draft a stud... even if Frank and Willy and THJ all go supernova, we still need another ace with the way the league is. We need a guy like Doncic or Porter to have a realistic chance of one day doing anything of note

That said don't expect the Knicks to intentionally Tank this season. The team wants to win and Mills, Perry and Jeff want to win. I wouldn't expect a team that isn't clawing and scratching to win games early in the season.

Also the Knicks can find a STUD outside of a Doncic or other top 5 pick. Steph Curry and Klay weren't top 5 picks. IMO the Knicks need to develop the young talent they have and continue to scout and draft well no matter where they draft at.

I didn't say that the Knicks are going to try and pull a Philly

Well you specifically mentioned Doncic and Porter. I don't expect the Knicks to end up that high in the Lottery. Heck the Knicks could end up in the playoffs.

just respond to what I say, thanks. there is a chance at either considering it is a lotto. When it is inevitable that the Knicks miss the playoffs, I do hope they rest their stars. That is different than Philly... Knicks charge way too much to go full tank mode


The Knicks weren't in the top 5 of the Lotto last draft and I expect that they will end up even further back this year. It won't take much for the Knicks to fall back further in the Lottery. The Knicks clearly aren't going to be Tanking and as built they have too much talent to expect that, if they are actually TRYING to win as expected.

There is a greater chance that they'll be playing to try and make the playoffs later into the season than last season, which means I don't expect them to be resting any Stars either. Last year the Knicks started off 14-10 and fell to 16-16 on Dec. 30th. If the Knicks manage to be above .500 after 32 games this season, they'd already be ahead of last year's pace.

The Knicks were 20-26 on January 23rd after they beat the Pacers who were 22-22 after that game, so this "inevitable" point at which they'd concede that there's no hope for the playoffs had not been reached just yet. The Knicks finished 11 games out of the 8th spot. The Pacers got the #7 spot with a 42-40 record. If the Knicks had gone 42-40 they'd have beaten out the 41-41 Bulls for the 8th spot. IMO it's VERY possible that the Knicks could make the playoffs this season.

wargames
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9/12/2017  6:53 PM
nixluva wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:
nixluva wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:
nixluva wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:we need to draft a stud... even if Frank and Willy and THJ all go supernova, we still need another ace with the way the league is. We need a guy like Doncic or Porter to have a realistic chance of one day doing anything of note

That said don't expect the Knicks to intentionally Tank this season. The team wants to win and Mills, Perry and Jeff want to win. I wouldn't expect a team that isn't clawing and scratching to win games early in the season.

Also the Knicks can find a STUD outside of a Doncic or other top 5 pick. Steph Curry and Klay weren't top 5 picks. IMO the Knicks need to develop the young talent they have and continue to scout and draft well no matter where they draft at.

I didn't say that the Knicks are going to try and pull a Philly

Well you specifically mentioned Doncic and Porter. I don't expect the Knicks to end up that high in the Lottery. Heck the Knicks could end up in the playoffs.

just respond to what I say, thanks. there is a chance at either considering it is a lotto. When it is inevitable that the Knicks miss the playoffs, I do hope they rest their stars. That is different than Philly... Knicks charge way too much to go full tank mode


The Knicks weren't in the top 5 of the Lotto last draft and I expect that they will end up even further back this year. It won't take much for the Knicks to fall back further in the Lottery. The Knicks clearly aren't going to be Tanking and as built they have too much talent to expect that, if they are actually TRYING to win as expected.

There is a greater chance that they'll be playing to try and make the playoffs later into the season than last season, which means I don't expect them to be resting any Stars either. Last year the Knicks started off 14-10 and fell to 16-16 on Dec. 30th. If the Knicks manage to be above .500 after 32 games this season, they'd already be ahead of last year's pace.

The Knicks were 20-26 on January 23rd after they beat the Pacers who were 22-22 after that game, so this "inevitable" point at which they'd concede that there's no hope for the playoffs had not been reached just yet. The Knicks finished 11 games out of the 8th spot. The Pacers got the #7 spot with a 42-40 record. If the Knicks had gone 42-40 they'd have beaten out the 41-41 Bulls for the 8th spot. IMO it's VERY possible that the Knicks could make the playoffs this season.

You sure we're not tanking considering the PG situation?

CrushAlot
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9/12/2017  9:01 PM
nixluva wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:
nixluva wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:
nixluva wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:we need to draft a stud... even if Frank and Willy and THJ all go supernova, we still need another ace with the way the league is. We need a guy like Doncic or Porter to have a realistic chance of one day doing anything of note

That said don't expect the Knicks to intentionally Tank this season. The team wants to win and Mills, Perry and Jeff want to win. I wouldn't expect a team that isn't clawing and scratching to win games early in the season.

Also the Knicks can find a STUD outside of a Doncic or other top 5 pick. Steph Curry and Klay weren't top 5 picks. IMO the Knicks need to develop the young talent they have and continue to scout and draft well no matter where they draft at.

I didn't say that the Knicks are going to try and pull a Philly

Well you specifically mentioned Doncic and Porter. I don't expect the Knicks to end up that high in the Lottery. Heck the Knicks could end up in the playoffs.

just respond to what I say, thanks. there is a chance at either considering it is a lotto. When it is inevitable that the Knicks miss the playoffs, I do hope they rest their stars. That is different than Philly... Knicks charge way too much to go full tank mode


The Knicks weren't in the top 5 of the Lotto last draft and I expect that they will end up even further back this year. It won't take much for the Knicks to fall back further in the Lottery. The Knicks clearly aren't going to be Tanking and as built they have too much talent to expect that, if they are actually TRYING to win as expected.

There is a greater chance that they'll be playing to try and make the playoffs later into the season than last season, which means I don't expect them to be resting any Stars either. Last year the Knicks started off 14-10 and fell to 16-16 on Dec. 30th. If the Knicks manage to be above .500 after 32 games this season, they'd already be ahead of last year's pace.

The Knicks were 20-26 on January 23rd after they beat the Pacers who were 22-22 after that game, so this "inevitable" point at which they'd concede that there's no hope for the playoffs had not been reached just yet. The Knicks finished 11 games out of the 8th spot. The Pacers got the #7 spot with a 42-40 record. If the Knicks had gone 42-40 they'd have beaten out the 41-41 Bulls for the 8th spot. IMO it's VERY possible that the Knicks could make the playoffs this season.


The Knicks were 20-26 but they had just lost 13 out of 16 games before they beat the Pacers. The Knicks didn't win consecutive games for all of 2017. They were not in anything after they beat the Pacers.
I think we know what we're doing..... Phil Jackson
Imagine tanking

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