meloshouldgo wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:I'm fine with Melo starting to season here. Its better than taking back Ryan Anderson's terrible contract. HOWEVER if Melo is gonna be here then he needs to understand that its about the youth movement now. KP is obviously the main piece but also Willy,Timmy,and Frank are gonna be a big part of the present and future. Obviously melo still needs to play but he wont be the primary focus anymore. If he can accept that for the time then things should be pretty good until we can find a trade that makes both sides happy.

What makes you think he can or will accept being anything but the focus of the offense in NY? And since we are talking about trading Melo's contract against Anderson's what makes that second one So horrible? He is overpaid? So is Melo. It lasts 3 years? is that any different from keeping and stretching Melo? At least RA will have positive attitude and won't cause any drama.

I agree with all of that but it certainly seems the Knicks don't see it this way. I think the deal would have been done by now if they did.

Yeah they are negotiating from a position of zero leverage. If Melo stays it's a bad outcome for team chemistry and KP's development. If Melo goes to Houston in a trade we need to take on RA or similar contracts via third team. Houston doesn't have a critical or urging need for Melo. Though some people here want to believe that they do.

As always, a 3rd option is a Melo buyout of some kind.

No Melo in 2017-18, no bad contract(s) into 2019-2020.

GustavBahler wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:I'm fine with Melo starting to season here. Its better than taking back Ryan Anderson's terrible contract. HOWEVER if Melo is gonna be here then he needs to understand that its about the youth movement now. KP is obviously the main piece but also Willy,Timmy,and Frank are gonna be a big part of the present and future. Obviously melo still needs to play but he wont be the primary focus anymore. If he can accept that for the time then things should be pretty good until we can find a trade that makes both sides happy.

Is Anthony's contract (2 years supermax, NTC) really that much less terrible? I guess if you're confident we could use the cap space in 2019 to land a very good FA, it is but I think one could be at least equally confident that Anderson will play better than Melo will here (age, attitude) and that we can use the sweeteners Houston includes (picks/players) at least as effectively as the extra year of cap space.

Bonn I think you are right. However there is one big assumption that one has to make: that Melo will be the same Melo we got last year. I think most would agree if he goes somewhere like Houston or Cle he will play better. Be rejuvenated, more a team guy, fit in more rather than this is my team my way... I think most would agree *that* Melo isnt going to play for the Knicks again.

I think that is a safe assumption to work under, or at least a fair one. Certainly Anderson hurts your cap with that extra year @ $21mm. At first I was dead set against any deal where we take back Anderson, but there is some cutting of the nose to spite the face there. Anderson makes us a better basketball. He makes the lockerroom better. He lets you start the season free of distractions. He lets the coaching staff focus on the court, not the locker room. Now the question is how much do the Knicks value those things and what an Anderson deal yields.

CP3 and Melo are old. Harden is not. A pair of unprotected picks in 2020/2022 may not be high but if they were or it was a deep draft they could be incredibly valuable assets in adding some talent to a roster that probably is capped out.

Anderson then gives you a nice stretch 4 either off the bench or to start if you want to put KP at the 5 to start. Anderson is a nice rebounder as well as probably lets the Knicks move KOQ for another asset as he's likely not in the long term plans. It will be interesting what the Knicks do, and I think it will shed some light on what their true priorities are. Hopefully they dont phuck this up. We will see.

Dont tell me they got you fish, not you! lol

Noah and Anderson would be taking up an unconscionable part of the cap. It will feel like Curry times two if Noah cant stay healthy. It would also send a signal that its business as usual at MSG. Just hold out long enough, and the Knicks will cave. They will say that because no is taking Anderson's deal.

Things are going to happen this season across the league we will not see coming. Could be injuries, could be an unexpected team slump. It could be a team performing better than expected.

Melo knows that if he comes back and plays like caca, he isnt going anywhere. If he tries to stuff the stats, Melo's clearly not trying to be a team player, then he is going to hear it from the fans like he did last season. Other teams have to sell a trade to their fans as well. An old, selfish, Melo, looking for a payday, wont be an easy sell.

It will also be a good way to convince Melo to expand his list. I know he wants to get paid, but he also wants a ring. Also give Houston time to reconsider their offer.

The only thing I want is whats best of the Knicks long term first and short term second. Better chemistry short term and picks long term make this a reasonable option.

I love the idea of a good young player and maybe a pick or two coming back for Melo. I think if that was the case a trade would be done. Houston has nothing. They arent budging on Ariza and we (rightly so) want nothing to do with Gordon or Anderson. Its just not out there.

fishmike wrote:I am mostly motivated by a pair of unprotected future picks as well as moving on from Melo.

Which we don't know are actually on the table.

fishmike wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:I'm fine with Melo starting to season here. Its better than taking back Ryan Anderson's terrible contract. HOWEVER if Melo is gonna be here then he needs to understand that its about the youth movement now. KP is obviously the main piece but also Willy,Timmy,and Frank are gonna be a big part of the present and future. Obviously melo still needs to play but he wont be the primary focus anymore. If he can accept that for the time then things should be pretty good until we can find a trade that makes both sides happy.

Is Anthony's contract (2 years supermax, NTC) really that much less terrible? I guess if you're confident we could use the cap space in 2019 to land a very good FA, it is but I think one could be at least equally confident that Anderson will play better than Melo will here (age, attitude) and that we can use the sweeteners Houston includes (picks/players) at least as effectively as the extra year of cap space.

Bonn I think you are right. However there is one big assumption that one has to make: that Melo will be the same Melo we got last year. I think most would agree if he goes somewhere like Houston or Cle he will play better. Be rejuvenated, more a team guy, fit in more rather than this is my team my way... I think most would agree *that* Melo isnt going to play for the Knicks again.

I think that is a safe assumption to work under, or at least a fair one. Certainly Anderson hurts your cap with that extra year @ $21mm. At first I was dead set against any deal where we take back Anderson, but there is some cutting of the nose to spite the face there. Anderson makes us a better basketball. He makes the lockerroom better. He lets you start the season free of distractions. He lets the coaching staff focus on the court, not the locker room. Now the question is how much do the Knicks value those things and what an Anderson deal yields.

CP3 and Melo are old. Harden is not. A pair of unprotected picks in 2020/2022 may not be high but if they were or it was a deep draft they could be incredibly valuable assets in adding some talent to a roster that probably is capped out.

Anderson then gives you a nice stretch 4 either off the bench or to start if you want to put KP at the 5 to start. Anderson is a nice rebounder as well as probably lets the Knicks move KOQ for another asset as he's likely not in the long term plans. It will be interesting what the Knicks do, and I think it will shed some light on what their true priorities are. Hopefully they dont phuck this up. We will see.

Dont tell me they got you fish, not you! lol

Noah and Anderson would be taking up an unconscionable part of the cap. It will feel like Curry times two if Noah cant stay healthy. It would also send a signal that its business as usual at MSG. Just hold out long enough, and the Knicks will cave. They will say that because no is taking Anderson's deal.

Things are going to happen this season across the league we will not see coming. Could be injuries, could be an unexpected team slump. It could be a team performing better than expected.

Melo knows that if he comes back and plays like caca, he isnt going anywhere. If he tries to stuff the stats, Melo's clearly not trying to be a team player, then he is going to hear it from the fans like he did last season. Other teams have to sell a trade to their fans as well. An old, selfish, Melo, looking for a payday, wont be an easy sell.

It will also be a good way to convince Melo to expand his list. I know he wants to get paid, but he also wants a ring. Also give Houston time to reconsider their offer.

I am mostly motivated by a pair of unprotected future picks as well as moving on from Melo. Noah and Lee are both here for 3 more years also. There is an assumption that Lee can be easily moved. Not always the case.

The only thing I want is whats best of the Knicks long term first and short term second. Better chemistry short term and picks long term make this a reasonable option.

I love the idea of a good young player and maybe a pick or two coming back for Melo. I think if that was the case a trade would be done. Houston has nothing. They arent budging on Ariza and we (rightly so) want nothing to do with Gordon or Anderson. Its just not out there.

Don't believe that Melo back for one more season (or less) is dire enough of a situation to put ourselves in a hole like that. The only person who really doesnt get along with Melo is Rambis, and Im sure with Phil out the picture, he will be less inclined to go Rambo.

Once the season starts, instead of Phil in his ear, he will have Perry, who is on good terms with Melo. I dont see the clusterf*k of last season. To me its all about flexibility, this would feel like we are shooting ourselves in the foot again to avoid a potentially uncomfortable situation. That was the motivation for the Ewing trade. Just not worth it IMO.

Edit: Lee is still a good 2 way player, dont believe it would be hard to move him to a team that is making a playoff run.

GustavBahler wrote:

fishmike wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:I'm fine with Melo starting to season here. Its better than taking back Ryan Anderson's terrible contract. HOWEVER if Melo is gonna be here then he needs to understand that its about the youth movement now. KP is obviously the main piece but also Willy,Timmy,and Frank are gonna be a big part of the present and future. Obviously melo still needs to play but he wont be the primary focus anymore. If he can accept that for the time then things should be pretty good until we can find a trade that makes both sides happy.

Is Anthony's contract (2 years supermax, NTC) really that much less terrible? I guess if you're confident we could use the cap space in 2019 to land a very good FA, it is but I think one could be at least equally confident that Anderson will play better than Melo will here (age, attitude) and that we can use the sweeteners Houston includes (picks/players) at least as effectively as the extra year of cap space.

Bonn I think you are right. However there is one big assumption that one has to make: that Melo will be the same Melo we got last year. I think most would agree if he goes somewhere like Houston or Cle he will play better. Be rejuvenated, more a team guy, fit in more rather than this is my team my way... I think most would agree *that* Melo isnt going to play for the Knicks again.

I think that is a safe assumption to work under, or at least a fair one. Certainly Anderson hurts your cap with that extra year @ $21mm. At first I was dead set against any deal where we take back Anderson, but there is some cutting of the nose to spite the face there. Anderson makes us a better basketball. He makes the lockerroom better. He lets you start the season free of distractions. He lets the coaching staff focus on the court, not the locker room. Now the question is how much do the Knicks value those things and what an Anderson deal yields.

CP3 and Melo are old. Harden is not. A pair of unprotected picks in 2020/2022 may not be high but if they were or it was a deep draft they could be incredibly valuable assets in adding some talent to a roster that probably is capped out.

Anderson then gives you a nice stretch 4 either off the bench or to start if you want to put KP at the 5 to start. Anderson is a nice rebounder as well as probably lets the Knicks move KOQ for another asset as he's likely not in the long term plans. It will be interesting what the Knicks do, and I think it will shed some light on what their true priorities are. Hopefully they dont phuck this up. We will see.

Dont tell me they got you fish, not you! lol

Noah and Anderson would be taking up an unconscionable part of the cap. It will feel like Curry times two if Noah cant stay healthy. It would also send a signal that its business as usual at MSG. Just hold out long enough, and the Knicks will cave. They will say that because no is taking Anderson's deal.

Things are going to happen this season across the league we will not see coming. Could be injuries, could be an unexpected team slump. It could be a team performing better than expected.

Melo knows that if he comes back and plays like caca, he isnt going anywhere. If he tries to stuff the stats, Melo's clearly not trying to be a team player, then he is going to hear it from the fans like he did last season. Other teams have to sell a trade to their fans as well. An old, selfish, Melo, looking for a payday, wont be an easy sell.

It will also be a good way to convince Melo to expand his list. I know he wants to get paid, but he also wants a ring. Also give Houston time to reconsider their offer.

I am mostly motivated by a pair of unprotected future picks as well as moving on from Melo. Noah and Lee are both here for 3 more years also. There is an assumption that Lee can be easily moved. Not always the case.

The only thing I want is whats best of the Knicks long term first and short term second. Better chemistry short term and picks long term make this a reasonable option.

I love the idea of a good young player and maybe a pick or two coming back for Melo. I think if that was the case a trade would be done. Houston has nothing. They arent budging on Ariza and we (rightly so) want nothing to do with Gordon or Anderson. Its just not out there.

Don't believe that Melo back for one more season (or less) is dire enough of a situation to put ourselves in a hole like that. The only person who really doesnt get along with Melo is Rambis, and Im sure with Phil out the picture, he will be less inclined to go Rambo.

Once the season starts, instead of Phil in his ear, he will have Perry, who is on good terms with Melo. I dont see the clusterf*k of last season. To me its all about flexibility, this would feel like we are shooting ourselves in the foot again to avoid a potentially uncomfortable situation. That was the motivation for the Ewing trade. Just not worth it IMO.

Edit: Lee is still a good 2 way player, dont believe it would be hard to move him to a team that is making a playoff run.

I dont know the answer... but this is the option(s) they are juggling.

I think the market of one team simply isnt enough and MElo is on the opening day roster. To what end I have no idea.

fishmike wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

fishmike wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:I'm fine with Melo starting to season here. Its better than taking back Ryan Anderson's terrible contract. HOWEVER if Melo is gonna be here then he needs to understand that its about the youth movement now. KP is obviously the main piece but also Willy,Timmy,and Frank are gonna be a big part of the present and future. Obviously melo still needs to play but he wont be the primary focus anymore. If he can accept that for the time then things should be pretty good until we can find a trade that makes both sides happy.

Is Anthony's contract (2 years supermax, NTC) really that much less terrible? I guess if you're confident we could use the cap space in 2019 to land a very good FA, it is but I think one could be at least equally confident that Anderson will play better than Melo will here (age, attitude) and that we can use the sweeteners Houston includes (picks/players) at least as effectively as the extra year of cap space.

Bonn I think you are right. However there is one big assumption that one has to make: that Melo will be the same Melo we got last year. I think most would agree if he goes somewhere like Houston or Cle he will play better. Be rejuvenated, more a team guy, fit in more rather than this is my team my way... I think most would agree *that* Melo isnt going to play for the Knicks again.

I think that is a safe assumption to work under, or at least a fair one. Certainly Anderson hurts your cap with that extra year @ $21mm. At first I was dead set against any deal where we take back Anderson, but there is some cutting of the nose to spite the face there. Anderson makes us a better basketball. He makes the lockerroom better. He lets you start the season free of distractions. He lets the coaching staff focus on the court, not the locker room. Now the question is how much do the Knicks value those things and what an Anderson deal yields.

CP3 and Melo are old. Harden is not. A pair of unprotected picks in 2020/2022 may not be high but if they were or it was a deep draft they could be incredibly valuable assets in adding some talent to a roster that probably is capped out.

Anderson then gives you a nice stretch 4 either off the bench or to start if you want to put KP at the 5 to start. Anderson is a nice rebounder as well as probably lets the Knicks move KOQ for another asset as he's likely not in the long term plans. It will be interesting what the Knicks do, and I think it will shed some light on what their true priorities are. Hopefully they dont phuck this up. We will see.

Dont tell me they got you fish, not you! lol

Noah and Anderson would be taking up an unconscionable part of the cap. It will feel like Curry times two if Noah cant stay healthy. It would also send a signal that its business as usual at MSG. Just hold out long enough, and the Knicks will cave. They will say that because no is taking Anderson's deal.

Things are going to happen this season across the league we will not see coming. Could be injuries, could be an unexpected team slump. It could be a team performing better than expected.

Melo knows that if he comes back and plays like caca, he isnt going anywhere. If he tries to stuff the stats, Melo's clearly not trying to be a team player, then he is going to hear it from the fans like he did last season. Other teams have to sell a trade to their fans as well. An old, selfish, Melo, looking for a payday, wont be an easy sell.

It will also be a good way to convince Melo to expand his list. I know he wants to get paid, but he also wants a ring. Also give Houston time to reconsider their offer.

I am mostly motivated by a pair of unprotected future picks as well as moving on from Melo. Noah and Lee are both here for 3 more years also. There is an assumption that Lee can be easily moved. Not always the case.

The only thing I want is whats best of the Knicks long term first and short term second. Better chemistry short term and picks long term make this a reasonable option.

I love the idea of a good young player and maybe a pick or two coming back for Melo. I think if that was the case a trade would be done. Houston has nothing. They arent budging on Ariza and we (rightly so) want nothing to do with Gordon or Anderson. Its just not out there.

Don't believe that Melo back for one more season (or less) is dire enough of a situation to put ourselves in a hole like that. The only person who really doesnt get along with Melo is Rambis, and Im sure with Phil out the picture, he will be less inclined to go Rambo.

Once the season starts, instead of Phil in his ear, he will have Perry, who is on good terms with Melo. I dont see the clusterf*k of last season. To me its all about flexibility, this would feel like we are shooting ourselves in the foot again to avoid a potentially uncomfortable situation. That was the motivation for the Ewing trade. Just not worth it IMO.

Edit: Lee is still a good 2 way player, dont believe it would be hard to move him to a team that is making a playoff run.

Sure... all those things sound nice. Now what happens when Melo is the starting 3, is holding the ball too much, doesnt defend much and is not happy about only getting 28 minutes a game and is vocal about it as the losses add up? Just playing devils advocate. Suppose then the Hous deal is off the table. Is a buyout at that point better? What if Melo is in the ear of Willy, KP, THjr saying things like what out at MSG, or this is the kind of treatment you can expect, or all the other things people who are miserable at work say every day... is that worth it?

I dont know the answer... but this is the option(s) they are juggling.

I think the market of one team simply isnt enough and MElo is on the opening day roster. To what end I have no idea.

If Melo can show next season that he is an effective team player in the minutes given, I doubt there is a problem. He knows it will help him get traded.

Why would he want to play heavy minutes which he will pay for at the end of the season, no matter where he plays? Why would he get bent all out of shape over losses knowing he will be gone soon one way or another?

Its in his best interest not to make waves. If the season passes and Melo has burnt his last bridge, what will be Melo's value when he opts out? Not much I imagine.

Bonn1997 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

fishmike wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

fishmike wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:I'm fine with Melo starting to season here. Its better than taking back Ryan Anderson's terrible contract. HOWEVER if Melo is gonna be here then he needs to understand that its about the youth movement now. KP is obviously the main piece but also Willy,Timmy,and Frank are gonna be a big part of the present and future. Obviously melo still needs to play but he wont be the primary focus anymore. If he can accept that for the time then things should be pretty good until we can find a trade that makes both sides happy.

Is Anthony's contract (2 years supermax, NTC) really that much less terrible? I guess if you're confident we could use the cap space in 2019 to land a very good FA, it is but I think one could be at least equally confident that Anderson will play better than Melo will here (age, attitude) and that we can use the sweeteners Houston includes (picks/players) at least as effectively as the extra year of cap space.

Bonn I think you are right. However there is one big assumption that one has to make: that Melo will be the same Melo we got last year. I think most would agree if he goes somewhere like Houston or Cle he will play better. Be rejuvenated, more a team guy, fit in more rather than this is my team my way... I think most would agree *that* Melo isnt going to play for the Knicks again.

I think that is a safe assumption to work under, or at least a fair one. Certainly Anderson hurts your cap with that extra year @ $21mm. At first I was dead set against any deal where we take back Anderson, but there is some cutting of the nose to spite the face there. Anderson makes us a better basketball. He makes the lockerroom better. He lets you start the season free of distractions. He lets the coaching staff focus on the court, not the locker room. Now the question is how much do the Knicks value those things and what an Anderson deal yields.

CP3 and Melo are old. Harden is not. A pair of unprotected picks in 2020/2022 may not be high but if they were or it was a deep draft they could be incredibly valuable assets in adding some talent to a roster that probably is capped out.

Anderson then gives you a nice stretch 4 either off the bench or to start if you want to put KP at the 5 to start. Anderson is a nice rebounder as well as probably lets the Knicks move KOQ for another asset as he's likely not in the long term plans. It will be interesting what the Knicks do, and I think it will shed some light on what their true priorities are. Hopefully they dont phuck this up. We will see.

Dont tell me they got you fish, not you! lol

Noah and Anderson would be taking up an unconscionable part of the cap. It will feel like Curry times two if Noah cant stay healthy. It would also send a signal that its business as usual at MSG. Just hold out long enough, and the Knicks will cave. They will say that because no is taking Anderson's deal.

Things are going to happen this season across the league we will not see coming. Could be injuries, could be an unexpected team slump. It could be a team performing better than expected.

Melo knows that if he comes back and plays like caca, he isnt going anywhere. If he tries to stuff the stats, Melo's clearly not trying to be a team player, then he is going to hear it from the fans like he did last season. Other teams have to sell a trade to their fans as well. An old, selfish, Melo, looking for a payday, wont be an easy sell.

It will also be a good way to convince Melo to expand his list. I know he wants to get paid, but he also wants a ring. Also give Houston time to reconsider their offer.

I am mostly motivated by a pair of unprotected future picks as well as moving on from Melo. Noah and Lee are both here for 3 more years also. There is an assumption that Lee can be easily moved. Not always the case.

The only thing I want is whats best of the Knicks long term first and short term second. Better chemistry short term and picks long term make this a reasonable option.

I love the idea of a good young player and maybe a pick or two coming back for Melo. I think if that was the case a trade would be done. Houston has nothing. They arent budging on Ariza and we (rightly so) want nothing to do with Gordon or Anderson. Its just not out there.

Don't believe that Melo back for one more season (or less) is dire enough of a situation to put ourselves in a hole like that. The only person who really doesnt get along with Melo is Rambis, and Im sure with Phil out the picture, he will be less inclined to go Rambo.

Once the season starts, instead of Phil in his ear, he will have Perry, who is on good terms with Melo. I dont see the clusterf*k of last season. To me its all about flexibility, this would feel like we are shooting ourselves in the foot again to avoid a potentially uncomfortable situation. That was the motivation for the Ewing trade. Just not worth it IMO.

Edit: Lee is still a good 2 way player, dont believe it would be hard to move him to a team that is making a playoff run.

Sure... all those things sound nice. Now what happens when Melo is the starting 3, is holding the ball too much, doesnt defend much and is not happy about only getting 28 minutes a game and is vocal about it as the losses add up? Just playing devils advocate. Suppose then the Hous deal is off the table. Is a buyout at that point better? What if Melo is in the ear of Willy, KP, THjr saying things like what out at MSG, or this is the kind of treatment you can expect, or all the other things people who are miserable at work say every day... is that worth it?

I dont know the answer... but this is the option(s) they are juggling.

I think the market of one team simply isnt enough and MElo is on the opening day roster. To what end I have no idea.

If Melo can show next season that he is an effective team player in the minutes given, I doubt there is a problem. He knows it will help him get traded.

Why would he want to play heavy minutes which he will pay for at the end of the season, no matter where he plays? Why would he get bent all out of shape over losses knowing he will be gone soon one way or another?

Its in his best interest not to make waves. If the season passes and Melo has burnt his last bridge, what will be Melo's value when he opts out? Not much I imagine.

If he's an effective team player with a good attitude, then the Knicks will just keep him most likely.

Knicks want to move on from the Melo years as well. They know Melo will opt out after next season. That would be the best case scenario.

If any deal comes along, it wont be because Melo made a stink of it. Knicks can just bench Melo and watch him piss away his chances of landing in Houston. That would likely move us up the draft next year. I will take that over Ryan Anderson's contract.

Bonn1997 wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:I'm fine with Melo starting to season here. Its better than taking back Ryan Anderson's terrible contract. HOWEVER if Melo is gonna be here then he needs to understand that its about the youth movement now. KP is obviously the main piece but also Willy,Timmy,and Frank are gonna be a big part of the present and future. Obviously melo still needs to play but he wont be the primary focus anymore. If he can accept that for the time then things should be pretty good until we can find a trade that makes both sides happy.

What makes you think he can or will accept being anything but the focus of the offense in NY? And since we are talking about trading Melo's contract against Anderson's what makes that second one So horrible? He is overpaid? So is Melo. It lasts 3 years? is that any different from keeping and stretching Melo? At least RA will have positive attitude and won't cause any drama.

I agree with all of that but it certainly seems the Knicks don't see it this way. I think the deal would have been done by now if they did.

Yeah they are negotiating from a position of zero leverage. If Melo stays it's a bad outcome for team chemistry and KP's development. If Melo goes to Houston in a trade we need to take on RA or similar contracts via third team. Houston doesn't have a critical or urging need for Melo. Though some people here want to believe that they do.

As always, a 3rd option is a Melo buyout of some kind.

No Melo in 2017-18, no bad contract(s) into 2019-2020.

That's fine but you're basically betting on something very good happening with our cap space in 2019

I'm not betting on anything. There are no guarantees in professional sports. You just have to act upon the best available information.

- something better than getting an excellent 6th man PF, 2 1st round draft picks, the ability to reduce KP's playing time a little, and (a smaller) salary cap savings the next 2 years. I think that's a bad bet but people could legitimately disagree on this.

Sure, but that "bet" Is something of a creation. We have no actual indication Houston is willing to give up two first round draft picks, not even mentioning their protection level. The "bet" becomes more ambiguous as you define one side's terms as the best case scenario.

KP's playing time, and Anderson's ability as a 6th man cannot be removed from the fact we have no indication the Knicks will be a good team and many that they will not. If the Knicks are not competitive you control kp's minutes in his best long term interests regardless of who or who is not on the bench behind him.

Similarly, Anderson's value as a 6th man is severely marginalized and arguably counterproductive if the Knicks are not a playoff team.

I wasn't saying that deal was on the table. I was saying it was a deal I'd do. The actual deal may be better or worse if it ever happens.
How overpaid do you think Anderson is? I think his value is way higher than Lee at $12 mil a year and probably close to TH Jrs - at least $14 to 15 mil in this market. So if we're overpaying by 5 mil a year for 3 years but getting 2 distant first round draft picks, that's probably reasonable but it's the bare minimum it would take for me to do the deal.

I think it has less do with his value than his purpose. Knicks are obviously gambling on the upside of Hardaway.

Lee was a mistake. He was brought on because the Knicks believed they could compete.

Anderson just doesn't have a role on a team 2-3 years away. Neither does Lee or Noah, but there is no reason to compound those errors. Their relative earnings is irrelevant.

meloshouldgo wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:I'm fine with Melo starting to season here. Its better than taking back Ryan Anderson's terrible contract. HOWEVER if Melo is gonna be here then he needs to understand that its about the youth movement now. KP is obviously the main piece but also Willy,Timmy,and Frank are gonna be a big part of the present and future. Obviously melo still needs to play but he wont be the primary focus anymore. If he can accept that for the time then things should be pretty good until we can find a trade that makes both sides happy.

What makes you think he can or will accept being anything but the focus of the offense in NY? And since we are talking about trading Melo's contract against Anderson's what makes that second one So horrible? He is overpaid? So is Melo. It lasts 3 years? is that any different from keeping and stretching Melo? At least RA will have positive attitude and won't cause any drama.

I agree with all of that but it certainly seems the Knicks don't see it this way. I think the deal would have been done by now if they did.

Yeah they are negotiating from a position of zero leverage. If Melo stays it's a bad outcome for team chemistry and KP's development. If Melo goes to Houston in a trade we need to take on RA or similar contracts via third team. Houston doesn't have a critical or urging need for Melo. Though some people here want to believe that they do.

As always, a 3rd option is a Melo buyout of some kind.

No Melo in 2017-18, no bad contract(s) into 2019-2020.

And a RA buyout is probably a lot more realistic

But by CBA rules, would have to extended to 2019-20.

I'm not even going to ask why it would be more realistic.

Knickoftime wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:I'm fine with Melo starting to season here. Its better than taking back Ryan Anderson's terrible contract. HOWEVER if Melo is gonna be here then he needs to understand that its about the youth movement now. KP is obviously the main piece but also Willy,Timmy,and Frank are gonna be a big part of the present and future. Obviously melo still needs to play but he wont be the primary focus anymore. If he can accept that for the time then things should be pretty good until we can find a trade that makes both sides happy.

What makes you think he can or will accept being anything but the focus of the offense in NY? And since we are talking about trading Melo's contract against Anderson's what makes that second one So horrible? He is overpaid? So is Melo. It lasts 3 years? is that any different from keeping and stretching Melo? At least RA will have positive attitude and won't cause any drama.

I agree with all of that but it certainly seems the Knicks don't see it this way. I think the deal would have been done by now if they did.

Yeah they are negotiating from a position of zero leverage. If Melo stays it's a bad outcome for team chemistry and KP's development. If Melo goes to Houston in a trade we need to take on RA or similar contracts via third team. Houston doesn't have a critical or urging need for Melo. Though some people here want to believe that they do.

As always, a 3rd option is a Melo buyout of some kind.

No Melo in 2017-18, no bad contract(s) into 2019-2020.

And a RA buyout is probably a lot more realistic

But by CBA rules, would have to extended to 2019-20.

I'm not even going to ask why it would be more realistic.

He is going to be more amenable to a buyout, doesn't have a history of holding this franchise hostage and may be willing to look at an universe of more than one team - comes to mind.