blkexec wrote:Ron Harper was not a PG in college and he led the bulls through multiple championships. We have to get out of the traditional thinking of what a PG looks like. And focus on what a PG like Frank can bring to the PG position.

Similar to how Ball looks long and slow....But he's affective.

Same with Frank....He will look slow, because he's 6'6 and long. But with a jumper (I can attest to this), players will close out on him very quick. You use that to your advantage with dribble drive penetration.

You can and will develop more penetration moves, just being around the league and trainers. Thats the easy part. How Frank handles the NBA mentally is always the challenge for all rookies. Based on history, he should do well in that area, with his pro experience.

Smith vs Frank is the classic comparison of an explosive guard, who relies on his athleticism and a High IQ two way guard, who doesn't need to rely on athleticism or explosiveness to impact the game.

Smith is a typical And One NYC type of PG.....flashy and will be all over sports center. Frank is a championship type PG, who will never get the credit he deserves. With all the injuries to small explosive guards, I rather invest in Frank, who's two way potential is very high. And long defenders, who can shoot and pass is rare!

Why is it when a guard can handle the ball like its on a string, can dunk and throw nice passes that it automatically equals an And One type of player? If this is the case, I guess John Wall, Kyrie and Russ are And One Players too...

As a top-10 pick and foundation piece of the Knicks’ rebuilding process, Frank Ntilikina is going to play in the NBA. But to play well — to be able to start, defend and excel — the young Frenchman is going to have to get bigger and stronger. The wiry 19-year-old is going to have to work as much on his body as his game.

“I’ve been working on my body so far, I’ve been working on my game, on my shot, so it’s good,” Ntilikina said Friday at the Knicks’ training facility in Tarrytown.

“I’ve been working on my body all summer. It’s very important for European players that come from overseas, the first thing we have to do is build our body. You see a lot of changes from every European player versus in the NBA. So I think it’s an important thing for me to do, so I’ve been working on this, working on my game, as [is] every player here.”

The eighth-overall pick talked about wanting to compete against the other elite point guards drafted (such as Markelle Fultz and Lonzo Ball) at a photo shoot for his Panini trading cards. But even surrounded by other rookies, he looked spindly and baby-faced.

Ntilikina is 6-foot-5 and listed at just 190 pounds. To even compete with unheralded Ron Baker and newly signed Ramon Sessions, he “needs to continue getting stronger,” as his draft profile on the league’s website reads.

He admitted as much himself.

“Yeah, I mean we all know it’s a different level here,’’ Ntilikina said. “But I think defense itself is about mindset and about physical [toughness]. You have to be physically strong. Whatever happens, I will work on it.

“I know I have to work on my body to be able to do some things in the NBA. All these guys are stronger than overseas players. It’s a challenge. I’ll just go in the training room, go on the court and work on it and fix it to try to be the best player I can be.”

To that end, Ntilikina has been working out not only with the Knicks’ team staff, but also with Chris Brickley, Carmelo Anthony’s longtime trainer. Brickley posted a video of Ntilikina working on his handle, his 3-point shooting and — most notably — his finishing, something he will need to improve.

Ntilikina not only shares a trainer with Anthony, but an agent as well. The question is whether they ever will be on the same team, with rumors swirling the Knicks could trade Anthony before the season starts.

For his part, Ntilikina would love to play alongside the 10-time All-Star.

“[It’d be] good. As with any other All-Star player, he did a lot of great things in his career,” Ntilikina said. “So, I mean, just for what he did it would be good.”

The Knicks inked Sessions to a veteran minimum deal, essentially to serve as a tutor for Ntilikina. Sessions started just 143 games — only 35 in the past five seasons combined — but has a decade of NBA experience to share.

“We talked a little bit. He’s a great guy,” Ntilikina said. “I’m just looking forward to playing with him. I know he’s here to give me a lot of advice, and he has been a great player in the NBA, so just to have him there and have him as a mentor [is good].”

Ntilikina — fully recovered the bone bruise that kept him out of the Orlando Summer League — said he has been in communication with Knicks star Kristaps Porzingis, but understands the Latvian is preoccupied with the FIBA EuroBasket championships starting later this month.

“Text messages,’’ Ntilikina said. “We’ll talk more when he comes back. But I wish him all the best in the European championship. I can’t wait to see him.”

Ntilikina has impressed some of his Knicks teammates.

“Just looking at his game film on Youtube and his highlights and talking to a lot of guys, he’s a long, athletic point guard who’s going to get after it and plays with a lot of energy,” Courtney Lee said Thursday on SiriusXM NBA Radio. “And he’s [19], so the youth is definitely good for us also. I’m looking forward to playing with him.”

MS wrote:I'm sorry but if you an 18 year old kid that's 6'5 with a 7'0 wing span you should be exploding to the rim and throwing it down with ease.

It's only a YouTube, but he looks like the 69% bust potential they highlighted in the draft.

Before the draft I was concerned about Nitty lacking the quickness and shake of elite PG's but not because I thought he'd be a Bust. I just wanted a more dynamic offensive player. That said I fully understand why they picked Nitty. He's more of a PG version of Kawhi IMO. He's capable of doing all the things that lead to winning from a team concept as opposed to an individual perspective.

I don't expect Nitty to be a GO TO scorer. Tho he should be highly effective in a Team Concept. Nitty also moves the ball early and often. Then of course you have his defense. Nitty has been trained in Team Concepts and isn't selfish. Nitty has a high BBIQ. Fans just need to accept that he's not DSJ. Totally different players but that doesn't mean Nitty won't be a great piece of the New Core of this team.

Jmpasq wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Welpee wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Welpee wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Welpee wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Welpee wrote:

Uptown wrote:

Welpee wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:Didn't realize that, wow. Mixed emotions about this article. Glad that Frank is taking developing an NBA game seriously. Not so glad that this part of his game needs a good deal of work at the 8 spot.

Because Monk and Smith didn't have aspect of their game they needed to work on? I look at it this way, I like the fact that his IQ and defense apparently doesn't need a great deal of work.

Of course they do...But under normal circumstances, dribble penetration is not the weakest part of most point guards game.

Well, under normal circumstances a point guard isn't going to be 6'5" with a 7 foot wingspan. I'm not looking for highlight reel plays, I'm looking for a guy who helps facilitate winning. Dennis Johnson wasn't known for his dribble penetration but he helped his teams win. If Frank can be that type of player I'm good.

Thats the go to excuse here. Dribble penetration= highlight reel, not important.

Just like dribble penetration = great point guard. Didn't we have a guy great at dribble penetration last season?

No, not just like that, because Im saying that its an important part of the package of what makes a great PG. You are suggesting that it isn't.

Rose was literally the most selfish PG in the league last season, doubt Frank will go that route. Again, most PGs drafted this high have a certain degree of proficiency in their game that Frank lacks. Frank is a project. Would have prefered less of one at 8 with the alternatives on the board. Its not that I believe that Frank has nothing to offer.

What I'm saying is you can have varying strengths and weaknesses and still be great. If ultimately dribble penetration isn't Frank's strength, that doesn't automatically disqualify him from having the potential to be great.

Understood. If Frank had superior court vision, that would help offset his lack of dribble penetration, but Im not sure he has that. Frank might turn out to be a fast learner, who knows?

Knicks just signed THJ to a big contract, so moving Frank to the wing (if he is more suited for that position) wont be an option, at least as a starter. I hope Sessions is a good mentor, hope Clyde helps Frank as well.

Well I think IQ and feel for the game (as an 18 year old) are suppose to be his strengths coming to the NBA. And regarding the dribble penetration thing, we're talking like it's all or nothing. It's just like defense, some guys are great, some can't play a lick of defense, then there are those guys who are adequate. They may not lock down anybody but they're not hurting you either. I wouldn't think Frank needs to be John Wall getting to the hoop. Now if he's Jose Calderon we may have a problem.

And it's possible we could play THJ at the 3 in a small lineup, something I think Hornacek has done in the past.

The best PGs in this league have no trouble blowing by defenders and getting to the rim. Thats today's NBA. Its a faster league now. Frank is going to have to be able to consistently get to the rim, or he's going to have a hard time holding on to a starting job. Unless he becomes a first rate floor general.

Yep, and I don't see that type of court vision

Based on what?

Based on what I've seen, which isnt much, and thats the point. If I watch a game with Lonzo Ball for example he will blow me away with a pass 5 times a game. I don't see it at all from Frank on highlight videos. We can agree to disagree but I just don't get some of the predictions for this kid. Better than Jason Kidd, Gary Payton, I mean I saw both of them in college and I dont see that level of talent. Im not sure he is even a PG in todays game.

This is some old footage but it at least gives some kind of insight into his passing ability.

GustavBahler wrote:The best PGs in this league have no trouble blowing by defenders and getting to the rim. Thats today's NBA. Its a faster league now. Frank is going to have to be able to consistently get to the rim, or he's going to have a hard time holding on to a starting job. Unless he becomes a first rate floor general.

A) There's no handchecking

B) Depending on the player, it's far easier to blow by a defender when the defender knows you will get every ref call in your favor ( i.e. James Harden jumping into a defender to get to the line or Dwayne Wade pretending to get gut shot when the truth is he can't really finish at the rim anymore)

Ntilikina was the 8th pick in what was likely a 6 player draft. He might pan out. He might bust. His high floor is comforting from the projection side. His lower ceiling than Dennis Smith and maybe a few others can cause concern.

His skill set is fine. What do the Knicks need?

1) Someone who will play team basketball

2) Someone who can at least defend at a league average rate and defend their own "weight"

3) Someone who will likely progress and provide value as the return in production exponentially outweighs the cost of a rookie contract

Let's just shoot for league average starter. If Frank N can get there, great. If he can do more, even better.

Bill Parcells "Everyone's talking playoffs. First, get to 500. Then just win your division. If you get to the playoffs, that's a long way off from the first two goals"

Everyone's talking about Frank N with heavy expectations. Just see if the kid can be a league average starter and work from there. Also it's entirely possibly that Smith Jr to Dallas and Frank N to the Knicks will work out for both franchises. Both might be where they need to be. It's not always an either/or proposition in terms of prospects.

PhilinLA wrote:Don't know if I read it here, or somewhere else, but one of the national scouts gives the prospects a shooting test, which I believe is 100 3's. Kevin Durant did it best with 80. Most guys hit 60. Frank hit 78.

nixluva wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Welpee wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Welpee wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Welpee wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Welpee wrote:

Uptown wrote:

Welpee wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:Didn't realize that, wow. Mixed emotions about this article. Glad that Frank is taking developing an NBA game seriously. Not so glad that this part of his game needs a good deal of work at the 8 spot.

Because Monk and Smith didn't have aspect of their game they needed to work on? I look at it this way, I like the fact that his IQ and defense apparently doesn't need a great deal of work.

Of course they do...But under normal circumstances, dribble penetration is not the weakest part of most point guards game.

Well, under normal circumstances a point guard isn't going to be 6'5" with a 7 foot wingspan. I'm not looking for highlight reel plays, I'm looking for a guy who helps facilitate winning. Dennis Johnson wasn't known for his dribble penetration but he helped his teams win. If Frank can be that type of player I'm good.

Thats the go to excuse here. Dribble penetration= highlight reel, not important.

Just like dribble penetration = great point guard. Didn't we have a guy great at dribble penetration last season?

No, not just like that, because Im saying that its an important part of the package of what makes a great PG. You are suggesting that it isn't.

Rose was literally the most selfish PG in the league last season, doubt Frank will go that route. Again, most PGs drafted this high have a certain degree of proficiency in their game that Frank lacks. Frank is a project. Would have prefered less of one at 8 with the alternatives on the board. Its not that I believe that Frank has nothing to offer.

What I'm saying is you can have varying strengths and weaknesses and still be great. If ultimately dribble penetration isn't Frank's strength, that doesn't automatically disqualify him from having the potential to be great.

Understood. If Frank had superior court vision, that would help offset his lack of dribble penetration, but Im not sure he has that. Frank might turn out to be a fast learner, who knows?

Knicks just signed THJ to a big contract, so moving Frank to the wing (if he is more suited for that position) wont be an option, at least as a starter. I hope Sessions is a good mentor, hope Clyde helps Frank as well.

Well I think IQ and feel for the game (as an 18 year old) are suppose to be his strengths coming to the NBA. And regarding the dribble penetration thing, we're talking like it's all or nothing. It's just like defense, some guys are great, some can't play a lick of defense, then there are those guys who are adequate. They may not lock down anybody but they're not hurting you either. I wouldn't think Frank needs to be John Wall getting to the hoop. Now if he's Jose Calderon we may have a problem.

And it's possible we could play THJ at the 3 in a small lineup, something I think Hornacek has done in the past.

The best PGs in this league have no trouble blowing by defenders and getting to the rim. Thats today's NBA. Its a faster league now. Frank is going to have to be able to consistently get to the rim, or he's going to have a hard time holding on to a starting job. Unless he becomes a first rate floor general.

Yep, and I don't see that type of court vision

Based on what?

Based on what I've seen, which isnt much, and thats the point. If I watch a game with Lonzo Ball for example he will blow me away with a pass 5 times a game. I don't see it at all from Frank on highlight videos. We can agree to disagree but I just don't get some of the predictions for this kid. Better than Jason Kidd, Gary Payton, I mean I saw both of them in college and I dont see that level of talent. Im not sure he is even a PG in todays game.

Nitty is a Combo Guard which is fine. Plenty of them in this draft. He does have passing talent and i'm sure that he'll continue to improve as he develops. THe Knicks scouts were all over this kid for a long time so I'm sure they have a very good idea of what he can do and what his potential could be.

This is some old footage but it at least gives some kind of insight into his passing ability.

That video looks like me in my 30s.....and even now in my 40s....Thats not a knock on him.....Its a compliment. It also shows the lack of PGs entering the NBA who simply plays the right way.

The difference is it took me into my late 20s / 30s before I developed that kind of IQ. I actually had someone tell me I would get picked up by an overseas team if I come with him to a nba summer league game and played in a game.

The other difference is I'm barely 6ft....6ft2 wing span......

Nitty will not blow u away....Neither did I. We are never appreciated because we done play selfish so highlights are a minimum. but on defense....i was a beast. Nitty is a beast.

Basically Phill went with a defensive specialist with natural instincts.....and gambled on his offensive development. This is why I'm still killing today....but in short spurts because I'm old now. Nitty just turned 19.

TripleThreat wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:The best PGs in this league have no trouble blowing by defenders and getting to the rim. Thats today's NBA. Its a faster league now. Frank is going to have to be able to consistently get to the rim, or he's going to have a hard time holding on to a starting job. Unless he becomes a first rate floor general.

A) There's no handchecking

B) Depending on the player, it's far easier to blow by a defender when the defender knows you will get every ref call in your favor ( i.e. James Harden jumping into a defender to get to the line or Dwayne Wade pretending to get gut shot when the truth is he can't really finish at the rim anymore)

Ntilikina was the 8th pick in what was likely a 6 player draft. He might pan out. He might bust. His high floor is comforting from the projection side. His lower ceiling than Dennis Smith and maybe a few others can cause concern.

His skill set is fine. What do the Knicks need?

1) Someone who will play team basketball

2) Someone who can at least defend at a league average rate and defend their own "weight"

3) Someone who will likely progress and provide value as the return in production exponentially outweighs the cost of a rookie contract

Let's just shoot for league average starter. If Frank N can get there, great. If he can do more, even better.

Bill Parcells "Everyone's talking playoffs. First, get to 500. Then just win your division. If you get to the playoffs, that's a long way off from the first two goals"

Everyone's talking about Frank N with heavy expectations. Just see if the kid can be a league average starter and work from there. Also it's entirely possibly that Smith Jr to Dallas and Frank N to the Knicks will work out for both franchises. Both might be where they need to be. It's not always an either/or proposition in terms of prospects.

I get what your saying and maybe its unfair to expect him to be a franchise altering player. I'm just tired of losing and with all the lost picks over the years we can't afford to hit singles with our draft picks. The clock is running because once Porzingis and Willy get to their 2nd contracts we are basically done adding major pieces through FA. Dennis Smith Jr looks like a surefire 20 ppg 7 assist type of player. I get why some people are scared off by him. I see it in his tape as well. He can have some tunnel vision. However, Smith is exactly the type of player that is thriving in today's game. He is an explosive offensive weapon fully capable of being a number 1 option. When I watch Frank I just don't see that type of offensive capability. Not only that but his handle his weak and his assist to turnover rate is poor. I don't doubt Frank can be a lockdown defender and a nice spot up shooter but he has some real red flags in terms of actually playing PG