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Cartman718
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8/11/2017  10:31 AM
BRIGGS wrote:This is a 30 year problem coming to a head.
I'd prefer to talk it down -- I hope they can-- I don't want to see anyone hurt

Suggesting this is Trumps fault is insane. If they don't want to talk and cat budge off their ambitions-- then whatever happens happens.

I'd still try to talk this down if it can be done-- I'm sure we are trying.

I don't think navy seals can do shy here-- this would take unconventional war fair.

I'd play by the isis playbook here-- I'd have 7-10 regular airliners filled with nuclear warheads take flight in normal manner from various sections of the hemispshere -- jam their radars and ram those ****ers dead into their highest military targets

I have no words.

Nixluva is posting triangle screen grabs, even when nobody asks - Fishmike. LOL So are we going to reference that thread like the bible now? "The thread of Wroten Page 14 post 9" - EnySpree
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Vmart
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8/11/2017  10:31 AM
BRIGGS wrote:This is a 30 year problem coming to a head.
I'd prefer to talk it down -- I hope they can-- I don't want to see anyone hurt

Suggesting this is Trumps fault is insane. If they don't want to talk and cat budge off their ambitions-- then whatever happens happens.

I'd still try to talk this down if it can be done-- I'm sure we are trying.

I don't think navy seals can do shy here-- this would take unconventional war fair.

I'd play by the isis playbook here-- I'd have 7-10 regular airliners filled with nuclear warheads take flight in normal manner from various sections of the hemispshere -- jam their radars and ram those ****ers dead into their highest military targets

Nuclear weapons are last resort. There are innocent people that you know will be used as shields.
smackeddog
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8/11/2017  10:42 AM
Cartman718 wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:This is a 30 year problem coming to a head.
I'd prefer to talk it down -- I hope they can-- I don't want to see anyone hurt

Suggesting this is Trumps fault is insane. If they don't want to talk and cat budge off their ambitions-- then whatever happens happens.

I'd still try to talk this down if it can be done-- I'm sure we are trying.

I don't think navy seals can do shy here-- this would take unconventional war fair.

I'd play by the isis playbook here-- I'd have 7-10 regular airliners filled with nuclear warheads take flight in normal manner from various sections of the hemispshere -- jam their radars and ram those ****ers dead into their highest military targets

I have no words.

BRIGGS has long held a weird desire to nuke millions of people to death- started with the entire middle east, now its Korea for ****s and giggles.
smackeddog
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8/11/2017  10:44 AM    LAST EDITED: 8/11/2017  10:51 AM
Gudris wrote:I hope Trump is going to kick that idiot ass very soon, dozens of millions of people are living like **** in N Korea, because of that stupid commies regime, it is time to give that people a freedom

Do you actually think trump isn't an idiot?

Why do you get to decide for the people of North Korea that its okay for you to kill them so they can be 'free'? How's that lovely US imposed freedom working out in Iraq?

Do you realize that if America launched an attack on N. Korea, they'd immediately launch a full scale attack on South Korea. So to 'free' north Koreans against their will, you'd be killing a whole load of South and North Koreans at the very leats, and who knows who the heck would get the Nukes (Korea? Japan? America?). For what purpose?
GoNyGoNyGo
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8/11/2017  10:53 AM
martin wrote:
GoNyGoNyGo wrote:
martin wrote:
GoNyGoNyGo wrote:
martin wrote:
GoNyGoNyGo wrote:It was the Bill Clinton administration that made the deal that led to this. "It's a good deal"

BushJr did little or nothing.

Obama ignored it even more. Actually ignored intel on the little nukes being developed and kicked the problem down the road.

Now Trump has to deal with it. What will happen? Whatever it is Trump will get the blame even thought the problem was caused by the 3 guys before him. (to Bush's credit at least he did call the Norks one of the three "axis of Evil" although he was laughed at for it.)

BTW watch Clinton deliver the speech on the deal, it is eerily similar to the one Obama gave citing his Iran deal. They both say "A Good deal" for America. HA!!

How long before the Iran deal blows up in our faces? Actually not literally.

We do this to ourselves. This goes way beyond politics. It used to be that politics ended on at our shores. No more, I guess.

What was the deal?

Also, what is the Agreed Framework and who walked away from it?

which deal?

The one you refer Bill making? Or are you asking about Agreed Framework?

I was asking about Iran or NKorea.

Are you saying the Clinton Administration did not make the deal?


As to the North Korea deal.

Bush was busy with Iraq...the administration did not like the deal, that is true. (Their instincts were right).

Here is a timeline by CNN...posted yesterday. IT contradicts some other things that I have seen recently.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/10/29/world/asia/north-korea-nuclear-timeline---fast-facts/index.html

Did Bush walk away because they violated first or was it the other way around? Depends on what you read. Having lived through it, I remember that NKorea was skirting the agreement and still trying to produce nukes, so we imposed more sanctions. Is that backing out? As we know, this may or may not have been what happened.

The fact is that deals like this don't work. You cannot trust the other side, ever.

The same thing is happening with Iran now, IMO. We also handed over billions of dollars too...but that's for another day down the road....ehem.


I also found this from 1994. Its written under the microscope of politics then, not today. Admittedly this is not a Clinton friendly site.

http://www.heritage.org/report/the-clinton-nuclear-deal-pyongyang-road-map-progress-or-dead-end-street

Read the whole thing, I think it's balanced but you can make your own judgement. It concludes like this:

CONCLUSION

Former Democratic Congressman Stephen Solarz is one of the few Americans who had the opportunity to meet with the late Kim 11 Sung and other senior North Korean leaders on several occasions. Congressman Solarz has said that his experiences in Pyongyang suggest that North Korea's commitments "have about the same value as Tsar- ist war bonds." The Clinton Administration and the American people should recognize that the October 21 agreement most likely will not protect the important U.S. interest that are at stake in the Korean nuclear standoff. Rather than simply sigh with relief in the wake of the Geneva accords, Washington should prepare to revisit this crisis.

I am asking you about what deal Clinton made. I don't know what you are referring to.

I am also asking you your background on Agreed Framework

the "deal" I am referring to is widely known as the Agreed Framework but I think you knew that already.
Gudris
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8/11/2017  10:54 AM
smackeddog wrote:
Gudris wrote:I hope Trump is going to kick that idiot ass very soon, dozens of millions of people are living like **** in N Korea, because of that stupid commies regime, it is time to give that people a freedom

Do you actually think trump isn't an idiot?

Why do you get to decide for the people of North Korea that its okay for you to kill them so they can be 'free'? How's that lovely US imposed freedom working out in Iraq?


I was born in USSR, i know how it is to live under commies regime, they really have no choice, they are starving and living like animals, i am pretty sure they secretly bag for somebody to stop that regime.

This is very different situation like in Iraq, they have no internal conflicts, it is best for them to unite again with south korea and enjoy freedom
smackeddog
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8/11/2017  10:55 AM
Vmart wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:This is a 30 year problem coming to a head.
I'd prefer to talk it down -- I hope they can-- I don't want to see anyone hurt

Suggesting this is Trumps fault is insane. If they don't want to talk and cat budge off their ambitions-- then whatever happens happens.

I'd still try to talk this down if it can be done-- I'm sure we are trying.

I don't think navy seals can do shy here-- this would take unconventional war fair.

I'd play by the isis playbook here-- I'd have 7-10 regular airliners filled with nuclear warheads take flight in normal manner from various sections of the hemispshere -- jam their radars and ram those ****ers dead into their highest military targets

Nuclear weapons are last resort. There are innocent people that you know will be used as shields.

Nuclear weapons are not precision weapons, I can't believe someone would advocate using them against 'military targets'- have they never heard of nuclear fallout?!
Gudris
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8/11/2017  10:58 AM
smackeddog wrote:
Gudris wrote:I hope Trump is going to kick that idiot ass very soon, dozens of millions of people are living like **** in N Korea, because of that stupid commies regime, it is time to give that people a freedom

Do you actually think trump isn't an idiot?

Why do you get to decide for the people of North Korea that its okay for you to kill them so they can be 'free'? How's that lovely US imposed freedom working out in Iraq?

Do you realize that if America launched an attack on N. Korea, they'd immediately launch a full scale attack on South Korea. So to 'free' north Koreans against their will, you'd be killing a whole load of South and North Koreans at the very leats, and who knows who the heck would get the Nukes (Korea? Japan? America?). For what purpose?

It is ok to sacrifice some people, to save a lot of people
smackeddog
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8/11/2017  11:01 AM
Gudris wrote:
smackeddog wrote:
Gudris wrote:I hope Trump is going to kick that idiot ass very soon, dozens of millions of people are living like **** in N Korea, because of that stupid commies regime, it is time to give that people a freedom

Do you actually think trump isn't an idiot?

Why do you get to decide for the people of North Korea that its okay for you to kill them so they can be 'free'? How's that lovely US imposed freedom working out in Iraq?

Do you realize that if America launched an attack on N. Korea, they'd immediately launch a full scale attack on South Korea. So to 'free' north Koreans against their will, you'd be killing a whole load of South and North Koreans at the very leats, and who knows who the heck would get the Nukes (Korea? Japan? America?). For what purpose?

It is ok to sacrifice some people, to save a lot of people

Sorry, but why do you posses that power to decide?
smackeddog
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8/11/2017  11:08 AM    LAST EDITED: 8/11/2017  11:09 AM
Gudris wrote:
smackeddog wrote:
Gudris wrote:I hope Trump is going to kick that idiot ass very soon, dozens of millions of people are living like **** in N Korea, because of that stupid commies regime, it is time to give that people a freedom

Do you actually think trump isn't an idiot?

Why do you get to decide for the people of North Korea that its okay for you to kill them so they can be 'free'? How's that lovely US imposed freedom working out in Iraq?


I was born in USSR, i know how it is to live under commies regime, they really have no choice, they are starving and living like animals, i am pretty sure they secretly bag for somebody to stop that regime.

I'm pretty sure their first priority is not to be killed.
MaTT4281
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8/11/2017  11:24 AM
smackeddog wrote:
Gudris wrote:
smackeddog wrote:
Gudris wrote:I hope Trump is going to kick that idiot ass very soon, dozens of millions of people are living like **** in N Korea, because of that stupid commies regime, it is time to give that people a freedom

Do you actually think trump isn't an idiot?

Why do you get to decide for the people of North Korea that its okay for you to kill them so they can be 'free'? How's that lovely US imposed freedom working out in Iraq?

Do you realize that if America launched an attack on N. Korea, they'd immediately launch a full scale attack on South Korea. So to 'free' north Koreans against their will, you'd be killing a whole load of South and North Koreans at the very leats, and who knows who the heck would get the Nukes (Korea? Japan? America?). For what purpose?

It is ok to sacrifice some people, to save a lot of people

Sorry, but why do you posses that power to decide?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/acts-of-faith/wp/2017/08/08/god-has-given-trump-authority-to-take-out-kim-jong-un-evangelical-adviser-says/?utm_term=.ef02d33bcabf

‘God has given Trump authority to take out Kim Jong Un’

This is a ****ing sitcom at this point.
Gudris
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8/11/2017  11:29 AM
smackeddog wrote:
Gudris wrote:
smackeddog wrote:
Gudris wrote:I hope Trump is going to kick that idiot ass very soon, dozens of millions of people are living like **** in N Korea, because of that stupid commies regime, it is time to give that people a freedom

Do you actually think trump isn't an idiot?

Why do you get to decide for the people of North Korea that its okay for you to kill them so they can be 'free'? How's that lovely US imposed freedom working out in Iraq?


I was born in USSR, i know how it is to live under commies regime, they really have no choice, they are starving and living like animals, i am pretty sure they secretly bag for somebody to stop that regime.

I'm pretty sure their first priority is not to be killed.

I am pretty sure they are ok to be killed to have better life for they children and those who will survive, you must understand that they are not living in N Korea, they are surviving and starving every day, it is the same when every day thousands of poor man from africa are trying to get to europe in rubber baots, thy now they have big chance to die, but hey still do it, because they have no life there anyway, if you never where starving in your live it is hard for you to understand, especially if you have a children and they ask you for food and you have nothing to give them. You better die if you know it will give better life for your children
Nalod
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8/11/2017  11:44 AM
First off we can't just go in and expect Russia and China to sit by while we institute a regime change.
They will side with us if they provoke us first. Seems like we like that. Havana Harbor, Pearl Harbor, and 9/11(?).
Then the world will side with us. How many on Guam? Imagine what that does for Trumps aproval rating!!!!

This is dangerous stuff. Nobody wins.
Briggs, your advocating we use commercial airlines (I assume drone driven) to nuke them? You really live in your own bubble.
Im not saying we take on up the arse on guam but this notion that 1 U.S. serviceman or civilian is worth the same as 1,000 north Koreans is insane!!!!!

North Korea is playing Trump like their bitch. He is predictable and they know they can push his buttons. It takes a strong man to NOT use his military.
smackeddog
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8/11/2017  11:54 AM
Gudris wrote:
smackeddog wrote:
Gudris wrote:
smackeddog wrote:
Gudris wrote:I hope Trump is going to kick that idiot ass very soon, dozens of millions of people are living like **** in N Korea, because of that stupid commies regime, it is time to give that people a freedom

Do you actually think trump isn't an idiot?

Why do you get to decide for the people of North Korea that its okay for you to kill them so they can be 'free'? How's that lovely US imposed freedom working out in Iraq?


I was born in USSR, i know how it is to live under commies regime, they really have no choice, they are starving and living like animals, i am pretty sure they secretly bag for somebody to stop that regime.

I'm pretty sure their first priority is not to be killed.

I am pretty sure they are ok to be killed to have better life for they children and those who will survive, you must understand that they are not living in N Korea, they are surviving and starving every day, it is the same when every day thousands of poor man from africa are trying to get to europe in rubber baots, thy now they have big chance to die, but hey still do it, because they have no life there anyway, if you never where starving in your live it is hard for you to understand, especially if you have a children and they ask you for food and you have nothing to give them. You better die if you know it will give better life for your children

If they'd rather die than live under the north Korean regime, then why haven't they died attempting to overthrow it or escape? Because, like most of us they'd rather keep their head down and survive. It's a crap choice but it is what it is- I'd hate to live under that regime, but I'd rather live under that regime than be bombed to death or be annihilated by nuclear fire, or succumb to nuclear fallout.
BRIGGS
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8/11/2017  12:00 PM
smackeddog wrote:
Cartman718 wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:This is a 30 year problem coming to a head.
I'd prefer to talk it down -- I hope they can-- I don't want to see anyone hurt

Suggesting this is Trumps fault is insane. If they don't want to talk and cat budge off their ambitions-- then whatever happens happens.

I'd still try to talk this down if it can be done-- I'm sure we are trying.

I don't think navy seals can do shy here-- this would take unconventional war fair.

I'd play by the isis playbook here-- I'd have 7-10 regular airliners filled with nuclear warheads take flight in normal manner from various sections of the hemispshere -- jam their radars and ram those ****ers dead into their highest military targets

I have no words.

BRIGGS has long held a weird desire to nuke millions of people to death- started with the entire middle east, now its Korea for ****s and giggles.

No I don't. I'd like to have peace. But I've also come to the realization thAt. It's a case of us or them

RIP Crushalot😞
Gudris
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8/11/2017  12:13 PM
smackeddog wrote:
Gudris wrote:
smackeddog wrote:
Gudris wrote:
smackeddog wrote:
Gudris wrote:I hope Trump is going to kick that idiot ass very soon, dozens of millions of people are living like **** in N Korea, because of that stupid commies regime, it is time to give that people a freedom

Do you actually think trump isn't an idiot?

Why do you get to decide for the people of North Korea that its okay for you to kill them so they can be 'free'? How's that lovely US imposed freedom working out in Iraq?


I was born in USSR, i know how it is to live under commies regime, they really have no choice, they are starving and living like animals, i am pretty sure they secretly bag for somebody to stop that regime.

I'm pretty sure their first priority is not to be killed.

I am pretty sure they are ok to be killed to have better life for they children and those who will survive, you must understand that they are not living in N Korea, they are surviving and starving every day, it is the same when every day thousands of poor man from africa are trying to get to europe in rubber baots, thy now they have big chance to die, but hey still do it, because they have no life there anyway, if you never where starving in your live it is hard for you to understand, especially if you have a children and they ask you for food and you have nothing to give them. You better die if you know it will give better life for your children

If they'd rather die than live under the north Korean regime, then why haven't they died attempting to overthrow it or escape? Because, like most of us they'd rather keep their head down and survive. It's a crap choice but it is what it is- I'd hate to live under that regime, but I'd rather live under that regime than be bombed to death or be annihilated by nuclear fire, or succumb to nuclear fallout.


They need managment, opportunity and support, like we(Baltic states) did with USSR, there where 100k people with no weapons against soviet army tanks, some people died under tank chains just because they did not want tanks to go forward, people are ok to die for freedom.
Gudris
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8/11/2017  12:16 PM
I am pretty sure if a real war will start and local people will see that they will get support, they will be helping us to fight against this regime.
smackeddog
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8/11/2017  12:19 PM
Gudris wrote:I am pretty sure if a real war will start and local people will see that they will get support, they will be helping us to fight against this regime.

So this decision making about peoples lives- does it work both ways? Can North Korean citizens decide for you that its better you die that live under a terrible capitalist regime?
smackeddog
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8/11/2017  12:21 PM
BRIGGS wrote:
smackeddog wrote:
Cartman718 wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:This is a 30 year problem coming to a head.
I'd prefer to talk it down -- I hope they can-- I don't want to see anyone hurt

Suggesting this is Trumps fault is insane. If they don't want to talk and cat budge off their ambitions-- then whatever happens happens.

I'd still try to talk this down if it can be done-- I'm sure we are trying.

I don't think navy seals can do shy here-- this would take unconventional war fair.

I'd play by the isis playbook here-- I'd have 7-10 regular airliners filled with nuclear warheads take flight in normal manner from various sections of the hemispshere -- jam their radars and ram those ****ers dead into their highest military targets

I have no words.

BRIGGS has long held a weird desire to nuke millions of people to death- started with the entire middle east, now its Korea for ****s and giggles.

No I don't. I'd like to have peace. But I've also come to the realization thAt. It's a case of us or them

Why would North Korea attack the US unless they thought the US was going to attack them? This crisis is entirely one of Trumps making, North Korea were never a threat. It's not a case of us or them, its a case of you wanting to kill millions of people because you're paranoid
arkrud
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8/11/2017  12:30 PM    LAST EDITED: 8/11/2017  12:34 PM
BRIGGS wrote:
smackeddog wrote:
Cartman718 wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:This is a 30 year problem coming to a head.
I'd prefer to talk it down -- I hope they can-- I don't want to see anyone hurt

Suggesting this is Trumps fault is insane. If they don't want to talk and cat budge off their ambitions-- then whatever happens happens.

I'd still try to talk this down if it can be done-- I'm sure we are trying.

I don't think navy seals can do shy here-- this would take unconventional war fair.

I'd play by the isis playbook here-- I'd have 7-10 regular airliners filled with nuclear warheads take flight in normal manner from various sections of the hemispshere -- jam their radars and ram those ****ers dead into their highest military targets

I have no words.

BRIGGS has long held a weird desire to nuke millions of people to death- started with the entire middle east, now its Korea for ****s and giggles.

No I don't. I'd like to have peace. But I've also come to the realization thAt. It's a case of us or them

There is no need for nuks to destroy the military and infrastructure.
Conventional bombing is good enough.
Look what we did with Mosul last couple of month an no one made a pip.
The city is 85% destroyed, 10th of thousands dead and more then million run for their life.
It worked with Serbia and it worked in other places.
No doubt 10th and 100th of thousands will die and we will get a couple of plains shut.
But War is War. Nothing is changed and Trump is not the one who can change anything.
He is not the one to declare the war and not the one who will do he job.
All that needed is formal approval from China, Russia, and South to do the dirty job.
We get it in Serbia (Russia was against but very powerless at a time), Iraq, Libya, and Syria.
If other powers do not want to do dirty job themselves we can do it for them as we always do.

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
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