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Nalod
Posts: 68474
Alba Posts: 154
Joined: 12/24/2003
Member: #508
USA
8/16/2017  11:37 AM
GustavBahler wrote:
EnySpree wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
EnySpree wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:Pass on Blatt. Enough fing Princeton guys. Hope Jeff shows enough to be kept on.

What's the issue with Princeton?

Dont believe that the best way to bring this franchise back is for Mills to hire all his old school buddies. Should be looking for the best people he can find. They don't all come from Princeton . Comfort level always seems to be the biggest driver in franchise decisions, over everything else.

But all his boys are successful. I don't mind him hiring his guys if they all are competent in what they do. All of the guys being hired are respected guys around the nba

The problem with hiring your buddies, is possibly having to fire your buddies. Mills hasn't shown an aptitude for giving someone who isnt performing, the hook. Thats why the front office has until recently been pretty much cemented in place. Yes, I know Dolan plays a part, and Mills played his as well.

As for Blatt, I know he's a smart guy, but he has that Phil Jackson arrogance about him. Problem is, he doesn't have a Tex Winter to keep him in check. Blatt came in thinking he already knew everything. He tried to argue that his championships in Europe were on par with an NBA chmpionship. He coached like someone who was still playing in Europe, not factoring in the length of an NBA game, basic rules. For all his talk, Blatt didn't do his homework.

Blatt got the Cavs off to a great start, but the playoffs are another animal. Lots of good regular season coaches out there. He definitely deserved a ring for his part, but Blatt getting the job knowing that his old buddy Mills will be there to enable him, doesnt really sit well with me. Sounds familiar...

A coach has to lay down the law and be respected. Lebron pressed him and Blatt was not his guy. Lue was his guy. Thats not arrogance, thats how coaches should act. "What has he accomplished"? Should he be "aw shucks and humble"? Blatt was bought in to coach a young team with rookies. THen Lebron came back and it all changed. Dumb owners hire the wrong guys. Blatt was not the guy you want to take a a team like that.
Really, Blatt did just fine.

As for Mills, he was the GM and PHil was the last word so your point about firing people was not accurate. Mills now has most definitely putting his stamp on this team.
As for firing these guys he hired? Well, we just going to have to see. Most often its the job that fires you, not your friend. The friend gives you the opportunity but if it don't happen, then its pretty clear when your contract is up. Don't be naive, if these guys do a good job and can get a good gig elsewhere, they will go too! Works both ways!!

As for Horny, we are not in the room as to what the expectations are. Nalod is not a media pansy so when read his article recently I put my own subject together not as prophacy but as conversation.
Remember Blatt did interview with Phil. We don't know what was discussed. Same thing regarding any convo's with Horny and Mills and what the definition of success and employment security is for him.
Media will pile on any losing streek but what is the goal this year? Melo playing or not? Do we measure develpment? quality of play vs. winning? Etc etc.

And yes, they are friends and that builds trust. If he hires Blatt and wins a chip with out extending him might Blatt walk and get big money if Mills does not offer it? I think so!!!

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GustavBahler
Posts: 41138
Alba Posts: 15
Joined: 7/12/2010
Member: #3186

8/16/2017  12:13 PM
Nalod wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
EnySpree wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
EnySpree wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:Pass on Blatt. Enough fing Princeton guys. Hope Jeff shows enough to be kept on.

What's the issue with Princeton?

Dont believe that the best way to bring this franchise back is for Mills to hire all his old school buddies. Should be looking for the best people he can find. They don't all come from Princeton . Comfort level always seems to be the biggest driver in franchise decisions, over everything else.

But all his boys are successful. I don't mind him hiring his guys if they all are competent in what they do. All of the guys being hired are respected guys around the nba

The problem with hiring your buddies, is possibly having to fire your buddies. Mills hasn't shown an aptitude for giving someone who isnt performing, the hook. Thats why the front office has until recently been pretty much cemented in place. Yes, I know Dolan plays a part, and Mills played his as well.

As for Blatt, I know he's a smart guy, but he has that Phil Jackson arrogance about him. Problem is, he doesn't have a Tex Winter to keep him in check. Blatt came in thinking he already knew everything. He tried to argue that his championships in Europe were on par with an NBA chmpionship. He coached like someone who was still playing in Europe, not factoring in the length of an NBA game, basic rules. For all his talk, Blatt didn't do his homework.

Blatt got the Cavs off to a great start, but the playoffs are another animal. Lots of good regular season coaches out there. He definitely deserved a ring for his part, but Blatt getting the job knowing that his old buddy Mills will be there to enable him, doesnt really sit well with me. Sounds familiar...

A coach has to lay down the law and be respected. Lebron pressed him and Blatt was not his guy. Lue was his guy. Thats not arrogance, thats how coaches should act. "What has he accomplished"? Should he be "aw shucks and humble"? Blatt was bought in to coach a young team with rookies. THen Lebron came back and it all changed. Dumb owners hire the wrong guys. Blatt was not the guy you want to take a a team like that.
Really, Blatt did just fine.

As for Mills, he was the GM and PHil was the last word so your point about firing people was not accurate. Mills now has most definitely putting his stamp on this team.
As for firing these guys he hired? Well, we just going to have to see. Most often its the job that fires you, not your friend. The friend gives you the opportunity but if it don't happen, then its pretty clear when your contract is up. Don't be naive, if these guys do a good job and can get a good gig elsewhere, they will go too! Works both ways!!

As for Horny, we are not in the room as to what the expectations are. Nalod is not a media pansy so when read his article recently I put my own subject together not as prophacy but as conversation.
Remember Blatt did interview with Phil. We don't know what was discussed. Same thing regarding any convo's with Horny and Mills and what the definition of success and employment security is for him.
Media will pile on any losing streek but what is the goal this year? Melo playing or not? Do we measure develpment? quality of play vs. winning? Etc etc.

And yes, they are friends and that builds trust. If he hires Blatt and wins a chip with out extending him might Blatt walk and get big money if Mills does not offer it? I think so!!!

It was arrogant for Blatt to equate anything he won in Europe, with an NBA championship. Don't care how big the trophy is. It was arrogant not to factor in the differences between the NBA game and the rest of the basketball playing world.

Blatt didnt alter his substitution patterns at first to compensate for a longer game. It was arrogant not to carefully monitor his time outs, so Blatt's assistant didn't have to sprint to keep him from getting a tech for calling a timeout, and losing the game.

Blatt already thought he had all the information he needed to excel in the NBA. This was even after he knew that the best player in the world would be on his team. That's arrogance. We just went through 3 years of arrogance, not interested in any more. Especially if Mills is his buddy.

Cant be naive about something I suggested several months ago, regarding Gaines getting hired elsewhere.

I will concede your point about Phil being in charge the last few years, although I didn't see any personnel changes when he was GM, before Phil got there.

Suggesting that Mills doesnt have that kind of influence would be naive. The man is still here and he talked himself back into being President, with the final say.

Nalod
Posts: 68474
Alba Posts: 154
Joined: 12/24/2003
Member: #508
USA
8/16/2017  12:22 PM    LAST EDITED: 8/16/2017  12:24 PM
GustavBahler wrote:
Nalod wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
EnySpree wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
EnySpree wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:Pass on Blatt. Enough fing Princeton guys. Hope Jeff shows enough to be kept on.

What's the issue with Princeton?

Dont believe that the best way to bring this franchise back is for Mills to hire all his old school buddies. Should be looking for the best people he can find. They don't all come from Princeton . Comfort level always seems to be the biggest driver in franchise decisions, over everything else.

But all his boys are successful. I don't mind him hiring his guys if they all are competent in what they do. All of the guys being hired are respected guys around the nba

The problem with hiring your buddies, is possibly having to fire your buddies. Mills hasn't shown an aptitude for giving someone who isnt performing, the hook. Thats why the front office has until recently been pretty much cemented in place. Yes, I know Dolan plays a part, and Mills played his as well.

As for Blatt, I know he's a smart guy, but he has that Phil Jackson arrogance about him. Problem is, he doesn't have a Tex Winter to keep him in check. Blatt came in thinking he already knew everything. He tried to argue that his championships in Europe were on par with an NBA chmpionship. He coached like someone who was still playing in Europe, not factoring in the length of an NBA game, basic rules. For all his talk, Blatt didn't do his homework.

Blatt got the Cavs off to a great start, but the playoffs are another animal. Lots of good regular season coaches out there. He definitely deserved a ring for his part, but Blatt getting the job knowing that his old buddy Mills will be there to enable him, doesnt really sit well with me. Sounds familiar...

A coach has to lay down the law and be respected. Lebron pressed him and Blatt was not his guy. Lue was his guy. Thats not arrogance, thats how coaches should act. "What has he accomplished"? Should he be "aw shucks and humble"? Blatt was bought in to coach a young team with rookies. THen Lebron came back and it all changed. Dumb owners hire the wrong guys. Blatt was not the guy you want to take a a team like that.
Really, Blatt did just fine.

As for Mills, he was the GM and PHil was the last word so your point about firing people was not accurate. Mills now has most definitely putting his stamp on this team.
As for firing these guys he hired? Well, we just going to have to see. Most often its the job that fires you, not your friend. The friend gives you the opportunity but if it don't happen, then its pretty clear when your contract is up. Don't be naive, if these guys do a good job and can get a good gig elsewhere, they will go too! Works both ways!!

As for Horny, we are not in the room as to what the expectations are. Nalod is not a media pansy so when read his article recently I put my own subject together not as prophacy but as conversation.
Remember Blatt did interview with Phil. We don't know what was discussed. Same thing regarding any convo's with Horny and Mills and what the definition of success and employment security is for him.
Media will pile on any losing streek but what is the goal this year? Melo playing or not? Do we measure develpment? quality of play vs. winning? Etc etc.

And yes, they are friends and that builds trust. If he hires Blatt and wins a chip with out extending him might Blatt walk and get big money if Mills does not offer it? I think so!!!

It was arrogant for Blatt to equate anything he won in Europe, with an NBA championship. Don't care how big the trophy is. It was arrogant not to factor in the differences between the NBA game and the rest of the basketball playing world.

Blatt didnt alter his substitution patterns at first to compensate for a longer game. It was arrogant not to carefully monitor his time outs, so Blatt's assistant didn't have to sprint to keep him from getting a tech for calling a timeout, and losing the game.

Blatt already thought he had all the information he needed to excel in the NBA. This was even after he knew that the best player in the world would be on his team. That's arrogance. We just went through 3 years of arrogance, not interested in any more. Especially if Mills is his buddy.

Cant be naive about something I suggested several months ago, regarding Gaines getting hired elsewhere.

I will concede your point about Phil being in charge the last few years, although I didn't see any personnel changes when he was GM, before Phil got there.

Suggesting that Mills doesnt have that kind of influence would be naive. The man is still here and he talked himself back into being President, with the final say.

Gaines is under contract here and wanted. Look at his resume, he really has not worked in the NBA beyond PHil.
As for blatt making mistakes, Yeah, he did. He was also not respected and used his cred. It backfired. He got paid big time and Lebron got his Jeff Van Gundy.

GustavBahler
Posts: 41138
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Joined: 7/12/2010
Member: #3186

8/16/2017  12:27 PM
Nalod wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
Nalod wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
EnySpree wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
EnySpree wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:Pass on Blatt. Enough fing Princeton guys. Hope Jeff shows enough to be kept on.

What's the issue with Princeton?

Dont believe that the best way to bring this franchise back is for Mills to hire all his old school buddies. Should be looking for the best people he can find. They don't all come from Princeton . Comfort level always seems to be the biggest driver in franchise decisions, over everything else.

But all his boys are successful. I don't mind him hiring his guys if they all are competent in what they do. All of the guys being hired are respected guys around the nba

The problem with hiring your buddies, is possibly having to fire your buddies. Mills hasn't shown an aptitude for giving someone who isnt performing, the hook. Thats why the front office has until recently been pretty much cemented in place. Yes, I know Dolan plays a part, and Mills played his as well.

As for Blatt, I know he's a smart guy, but he has that Phil Jackson arrogance about him. Problem is, he doesn't have a Tex Winter to keep him in check. Blatt came in thinking he already knew everything. He tried to argue that his championships in Europe were on par with an NBA chmpionship. He coached like someone who was still playing in Europe, not factoring in the length of an NBA game, basic rules. For all his talk, Blatt didn't do his homework.

Blatt got the Cavs off to a great start, but the playoffs are another animal. Lots of good regular season coaches out there. He definitely deserved a ring for his part, but Blatt getting the job knowing that his old buddy Mills will be there to enable him, doesnt really sit well with me. Sounds familiar...

A coach has to lay down the law and be respected. Lebron pressed him and Blatt was not his guy. Lue was his guy. Thats not arrogance, thats how coaches should act. "What has he accomplished"? Should he be "aw shucks and humble"? Blatt was bought in to coach a young team with rookies. THen Lebron came back and it all changed. Dumb owners hire the wrong guys. Blatt was not the guy you want to take a a team like that.
Really, Blatt did just fine.

As for Mills, he was the GM and PHil was the last word so your point about firing people was not accurate. Mills now has most definitely putting his stamp on this team.
As for firing these guys he hired? Well, we just going to have to see. Most often its the job that fires you, not your friend. The friend gives you the opportunity but if it don't happen, then its pretty clear when your contract is up. Don't be naive, if these guys do a good job and can get a good gig elsewhere, they will go too! Works both ways!!

As for Horny, we are not in the room as to what the expectations are. Nalod is not a media pansy so when read his article recently I put my own subject together not as prophacy but as conversation.
Remember Blatt did interview with Phil. We don't know what was discussed. Same thing regarding any convo's with Horny and Mills and what the definition of success and employment security is for him.
Media will pile on any losing streek but what is the goal this year? Melo playing or not? Do we measure develpment? quality of play vs. winning? Etc etc.

And yes, they are friends and that builds trust. If he hires Blatt and wins a chip with out extending him might Blatt walk and get big money if Mills does not offer it? I think so!!!

It was arrogant for Blatt to equate anything he won in Europe, with an NBA championship. Don't care how big the trophy is. It was arrogant not to factor in the differences between the NBA game and the rest of the basketball playing world.

Blatt didnt alter his substitution patterns at first to compensate for a longer game. It was arrogant not to carefully monitor his time outs, so Blatt's assistant didn't have to sprint to keep him from getting a tech for calling a timeout, and losing the game.

Blatt already thought he had all the information he needed to excel in the NBA. This was even after he knew that the best player in the world would be on his team. That's arrogance. We just went through 3 years of arrogance, not interested in any more. Especially if Mills is his buddy.

Cant be naive about something I suggested several months ago, regarding Gaines getting hired elsewhere.

I will concede your point about Phil being in charge the last few years, although I didn't see any personnel changes when he was GM, before Phil got there.

Suggesting that Mills doesnt have that kind of influence would be naive. The man is still here and he talked himself back into being President, with the final say.

Gaines is under contract here and wanted. Look at his resume, he really has not worked in the NBA beyond PHil.

I understand that. I was suggesting several months ago, that the Knicks should do what it takes to keep Gaines here as he is getting good reviews for his scouting, and may garner interest elsewhere. Already knew the door swung both ways.

Nalod
Posts: 68474
Alba Posts: 154
Joined: 12/24/2003
Member: #508
USA
8/16/2017  1:07 PM
GustavBahler wrote:
Nalod wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
Nalod wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
EnySpree wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
EnySpree wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:Pass on Blatt. Enough fing Princeton guys. Hope Jeff shows enough to be kept on.

What's the issue with Princeton?

Dont believe that the best way to bring this franchise back is for Mills to hire all his old school buddies. Should be looking for the best people he can find. They don't all come from Princeton . Comfort level always seems to be the biggest driver in franchise decisions, over everything else.

But all his boys are successful. I don't mind him hiring his guys if they all are competent in what they do. All of the guys being hired are respected guys around the nba

The problem with hiring your buddies, is possibly having to fire your buddies. Mills hasn't shown an aptitude for giving someone who isnt performing, the hook. Thats why the front office has until recently been pretty much cemented in place. Yes, I know Dolan plays a part, and Mills played his as well.

As for Blatt, I know he's a smart guy, but he has that Phil Jackson arrogance about him. Problem is, he doesn't have a Tex Winter to keep him in check. Blatt came in thinking he already knew everything. He tried to argue that his championships in Europe were on par with an NBA chmpionship. He coached like someone who was still playing in Europe, not factoring in the length of an NBA game, basic rules. For all his talk, Blatt didn't do his homework.

Blatt got the Cavs off to a great start, but the playoffs are another animal. Lots of good regular season coaches out there. He definitely deserved a ring for his part, but Blatt getting the job knowing that his old buddy Mills will be there to enable him, doesnt really sit well with me. Sounds familiar...

A coach has to lay down the law and be respected. Lebron pressed him and Blatt was not his guy. Lue was his guy. Thats not arrogance, thats how coaches should act. "What has he accomplished"? Should he be "aw shucks and humble"? Blatt was bought in to coach a young team with rookies. THen Lebron came back and it all changed. Dumb owners hire the wrong guys. Blatt was not the guy you want to take a a team like that.
Really, Blatt did just fine.

As for Mills, he was the GM and PHil was the last word so your point about firing people was not accurate. Mills now has most definitely putting his stamp on this team.
As for firing these guys he hired? Well, we just going to have to see. Most often its the job that fires you, not your friend. The friend gives you the opportunity but if it don't happen, then its pretty clear when your contract is up. Don't be naive, if these guys do a good job and can get a good gig elsewhere, they will go too! Works both ways!!

As for Horny, we are not in the room as to what the expectations are. Nalod is not a media pansy so when read his article recently I put my own subject together not as prophacy but as conversation.
Remember Blatt did interview with Phil. We don't know what was discussed. Same thing regarding any convo's with Horny and Mills and what the definition of success and employment security is for him.
Media will pile on any losing streek but what is the goal this year? Melo playing or not? Do we measure develpment? quality of play vs. winning? Etc etc.

And yes, they are friends and that builds trust. If he hires Blatt and wins a chip with out extending him might Blatt walk and get big money if Mills does not offer it? I think so!!!

It was arrogant for Blatt to equate anything he won in Europe, with an NBA championship. Don't care how big the trophy is. It was arrogant not to factor in the differences between the NBA game and the rest of the basketball playing world.

Blatt didnt alter his substitution patterns at first to compensate for a longer game. It was arrogant not to carefully monitor his time outs, so Blatt's assistant didn't have to sprint to keep him from getting a tech for calling a timeout, and losing the game.

Blatt already thought he had all the information he needed to excel in the NBA. This was even after he knew that the best player in the world would be on his team. That's arrogance. We just went through 3 years of arrogance, not interested in any more. Especially if Mills is his buddy.

Cant be naive about something I suggested several months ago, regarding Gaines getting hired elsewhere.

I will concede your point about Phil being in charge the last few years, although I didn't see any personnel changes when he was GM, before Phil got there.

Suggesting that Mills doesnt have that kind of influence would be naive. The man is still here and he talked himself back into being President, with the final say.

Gaines is under contract here and wanted. Look at his resume, he really has not worked in the NBA beyond PHil.

I understand that. I was suggesting several months ago, that the Knicks should do what it takes to keep Gaines here as he is getting good reviews for his scouting, and may garner interest elsewhere. Already knew the door swung both ways.

I like the job Gaines has done but after reading up on this guy, and that he has not worked beyond Phil I don't know if he can be the effective guy inside an organization as he was allowed to work under phil.
My take, and its just my take is he is a bit of a lone wolf and walks to his own beat. Thats not a bad thing btw. I can see if he has a contract , and it might be a darn good one the knicks will honor it either way whether he works or not, so they might as well keep him and get value in return.

GustavBahler
Posts: 41138
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Joined: 7/12/2010
Member: #3186

8/17/2017  9:23 AM
https://sports.yahoo.com/jeff-hornacek-doesn-t-knicks-185911706.html

Blatt wants to return to the NBA, but is he the guy to connect with Porzingis? Blatt’s problems in Cleveland had far less to do with Xs and Os than it did relationships with players — Blatt was saying he wanted to team to play faster long before Tyronn Lue said that when he took over, but Lue could get players to buy in and listen. Blatt couldn’t. Blatt came in expecting to be handed respect, touting his European resume (that NBA players shrugged at), and demanding deference rather than building partnerships with LeBron James and Kyrie Irving. Blatt came off as needing to be the smartest guy in the room, always. Basically, Blatt could not handle the player/power dynamic in the NBA (coming out of Europe, where coaches have absolute power, like an American college coach). Has he learned how to deal with it?
Nalod
Posts: 68474
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8/17/2017  10:50 AM
GustavBahler wrote:https://sports.yahoo.com/jeff-hornacek-doesn-t-knicks-185911706.html

Blatt wants to return to the NBA, but is he the guy to connect with Porzingis? Blatt’s problems in Cleveland had far less to do with Xs and Os than it did relationships with players — Blatt was saying he wanted to team to play faster long before Tyronn Lue said that when he took over, but Lue could get players to buy in and listen. Blatt couldn’t. Blatt came in expecting to be handed respect, touting his European resume (that NBA players shrugged at), and demanding deference rather than building partnerships with LeBron James and Kyrie Irving. Blatt came off as needing to be the smartest guy in the room, always. Basically, Blatt could not handle the player/power dynamic in the NBA (coming out of Europe, where coaches have absolute power, like an American college coach). Has he learned how to deal with it?

Its a fair question and certainly the dynamic changed for him. Brad Stevens first year in the NBA with the celtics was awful for him and the team. This was built in as a learning year for him him and he has improed.
He is much younger and from college, so I understand there are many differences. My point would be a good organization would give a coach time to acclimate. The push back from Lebron, and not so great owner, and perhaps ambitious assistants all did not foster an environment to adjust.

Blatt is in his 50's but its not lost on him what he needs to do if he wants to be an NBA coach.
Best case scenario is Hornacek succeeds at some determined level this year and continues to succeed off of that.
Our young core of Frank and KP are euro's and its possible Blatt is a good fit in some respects.

knicks1248
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8/18/2017  10:39 AM
kp is not on board with JH and RAMBUST, and if that is truly the case, their days are # regardless if this is a rebuilding yr. If we go into tank mode, he will still be replace. I really think he needs to win 40 games to keep his job.
ES
Nalod
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8/18/2017  11:26 AM
knicks1248 wrote:kp is not on board with JH and RAMBUST, and if that is truly the case, their days are # regardless if this is a rebuilding yr. If we go into tank mode, he will still be replace. I really think he needs to win 40 games to keep his job.

Other than KP and JH had disagreements, back your statement up with facts instead of your usual diluted innuendo.
Also, you don't know what KP's beef was do you?

Rambis yelling is not the end of the world. Coaches yell, when players don't do what they are told to do, they yell. Sometimes Players Yell back.
You think a team fires its coaches every time there is a disagreement?
The boss had a triangle directive and it was up to the coaches to reign it down on the players.
That is not in place now.
Also, do you know who fully has experienced and understands what happens when you force the triangle on a team that can't/won't/incapable of doing it? RAMBIS!!!!
If you don't think that coach's experience even in failure does not make them better then you really don't understand a lot.
Look up Joe Torre's managerial career before the Yankees. It made him a better manager! Losing is a great teacher.
Im not saying Rambis is or will ever be a championship winning coach, but you and I don't know a lot of things on the dynamics of the team.
Phil is gone, I don't expect Rambis to stay but at this time in August the odds are he does for this season.

knicks1248
Posts: 42059
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8/18/2017  12:36 PM
Nalod wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:kp is not on board with JH and RAMBUST, and if that is truly the case, their days are # regardless if this is a rebuilding yr. If we go into tank mode, he will still be replace. I really think he needs to win 40 games to keep his job.

Other than KP and JH had disagreements, back your statement up with facts instead of your usual diluted innuendo.
Also, you don't know what KP's beef was do you?

Rambis yelling is not the end of the world. Coaches yell, when players don't do what they are told to do, they yell. Sometimes Players Yell back.
You think a team fires its coaches every time there is a disagreement?
The boss had a triangle directive and it was up to the coaches to reign it down on the players.
That is not in place now.
Also, do you know who fully has experienced and understands what happens when you force the triangle on a team that can't/won't/incapable of doing it? RAMBIS!!!!
If you don't think that coach's experience even in failure does not make them better then you really don't understand a lot.
Look up Joe Torre's managerial career before the Yankees. It made him a better manager! Losing is a great teacher.
Im not saying Rambis is or will ever be a championship winning coach, but you and I don't know a lot of things on the dynamics of the team.
Phil is gone, I don't expect Rambis to stay but at this time in August the odds are he does for this season.

coaches get replace for 1 or 2 things or both
1)losing
2)instructions falling on deaf ears and players are not happy.

I like JH and hopes he succeeds, but with BLatt in the wings, and already showed interest in the team by interview for the position, along with his Princeton alumni all on deck..

Believe me, I don't think I'm going out on a limb here to think it can't happen..

ES
CrushAlot
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8/18/2017  12:54 PM
knicks1248 wrote:kp is not on board with JH and RAMBUST, and if that is truly the case, their days are # regardless if this is a rebuilding yr. If we go into tank mode, he will still be replace. I really think he needs to win 40 games to keep his job.
I think you might be right. KP didn't just skip an exit meeting with Phil. He skipped a meeting with Jeff and Mills as well. I think if he really liked/respected Jeff he would have been there. Not much has been done since that happened to smooth the waters. Phil reacted to the skipped meeting by putting KP on the trading block and not renewing his favorite coach. (It was reported before Longstaff was not renewed that he would be going to Latvia again this past summer). Phil was let go but nothing else has changed other than Jeff is going to be able to run his own offense.
I was really excited about the hiring of Jeff as a coach. I liked what he did with his team in Phoenix and I liked that Phil was choosing a guy that wasn't part of his triangle past. However, I think things were really bad last year in the locker room. I do think Rambis is toxic to the situation and I am not sure why he is still on the bench. I think Jeff has to win back that locker room but the smarter move might have been to hire a new guy. The Knicks need continuity but if there was an us versus them culture in the locker room the smart move would be to move on from Rambis and probably Jeff as well. I do think Jeff was sabotaged a bit by his pres pushing the triangle. However, the I am going to have the last word reaction by the former pres did not help the KP situation in my opinion. Jeff was Phil's coach and the team was really bad on the court and the locker room was a mess. I think a clean break, not trading the future of the franchise, would be the best move going forward. In that scenario Jeff gets a bit of a raw deal but he was a part of what was broken last year. You don't trade what is best about your team in the present and future because that player takes an action that makes it apparent he is not happy with the dysfunction and losing. You try to fix the dysfunction and correct the losing. Firing Phil was the first step. The Knicks need to take more steps to get this thing righted. I think moving on from Rambis and probably Jeff is one of those steps.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
Nalod
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8/18/2017  1:45 PM
CrushAlot wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:kp is not on board with JH and RAMBUST, and if that is truly the case, their days are # regardless if this is a rebuilding yr. If we go into tank mode, he will still be replace. I really think he needs to win 40 games to keep his job.
I think you might be right. KP didn't just skip an exit meeting with Phil. He skipped a meeting with Jeff and Mills as well. I think if he really liked/respected Jeff he would have been there. Not much has been done since that happened to smooth the waters. Phil reacted to the skipped meeting by putting KP on the trading block and not renewing his favorite coach. (It was reported before Longstaff was not renewed that he would be going to Latvia again this past summer). Phil was let go but nothing else has changed other than Jeff is going to be able to run his own offense.
I was really excited about the hiring of Jeff as a coach. I liked what he did with his team in Phoenix and I liked that Phil was choosing a guy that wasn't part of his triangle past. However, I think things were really bad last year in the locker room. I do think Rambis is toxic to the situation and I am not sure why he is still on the bench. I think Jeff has to win back that locker room but the smarter move might have been to hire a new guy. The Knicks need continuity but if there was an us versus them culture in the locker room the smart move would be to move on from Rambis and probably Jeff as well. I do think Jeff was sabotaged a bit by his pres pushing the triangle. However, the I am going to have the last word reaction by the former pres did not help the KP situation in my opinion. Jeff was Phil's coach and the team was really bad on the court and the locker room was a mess. I think a clean break, not trading the future of the franchise, would be the best move going forward. In that scenario Jeff gets a bit of a raw deal but he was a part of what was broken last year. You don't trade what is best about your team in the present and future because that player takes an action that makes it apparent he is not happy with the dysfunction and losing. You try to fix the dysfunction and correct the losing. Firing Phil was the first step. The Knicks need to take more steps to get this thing righted. I think moving on from Rambis and probably Jeff is one of those steps.

fire a guy that is well regarded to bring continuity.
Neither of you can cite a bonafide source that speaks to the problem being Jeff?

And yes, its a new regime and if there is a toxic environment that is not caused by the coach, or the players have tuned him out, then the generic answer is the coach goes.
Very obvious.
There is a difference between an organizational issue vs. a coaching issue. Nalod suspects there was an organizational problem most of last year.
Why KP didn't "exit" properly? I don't think its been accurately told why.

CrushAlot
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8/18/2017  1:58 PM
Nalod wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:kp is not on board with JH and RAMBUST, and if that is truly the case, their days are # regardless if this is a rebuilding yr. If we go into tank mode, he will still be replace. I really think he needs to win 40 games to keep his job.
I think you might be right. KP didn't just skip an exit meeting with Phil. He skipped a meeting with Jeff and Mills as well. I think if he really liked/respected Jeff he would have been there. Not much has been done since that happened to smooth the waters. Phil reacted to the skipped meeting by putting KP on the trading block and not renewing his favorite coach. (It was reported before Longstaff was not renewed that he would be going to Latvia again this past summer). Phil was let go but nothing else has changed other than Jeff is going to be able to run his own offense.
I was really excited about the hiring of Jeff as a coach. I liked what he did with his team in Phoenix and I liked that Phil was choosing a guy that wasn't part of his triangle past. However, I think things were really bad last year in the locker room. I do think Rambis is toxic to the situation and I am not sure why he is still on the bench. I think Jeff has to win back that locker room but the smarter move might have been to hire a new guy. The Knicks need continuity but if there was an us versus them culture in the locker room the smart move would be to move on from Rambis and probably Jeff as well. I do think Jeff was sabotaged a bit by his pres pushing the triangle. However, the I am going to have the last word reaction by the former pres did not help the KP situation in my opinion. Jeff was Phil's coach and the team was really bad on the court and the locker room was a mess. I think a clean break, not trading the future of the franchise, would be the best move going forward. In that scenario Jeff gets a bit of a raw deal but he was a part of what was broken last year. You don't trade what is best about your team in the present and future because that player takes an action that makes it apparent he is not happy with the dysfunction and losing. You try to fix the dysfunction and correct the losing. Firing Phil was the first step. The Knicks need to take more steps to get this thing righted. I think moving on from Rambis and probably Jeff is one of those steps.

fire a guy that is well regarded to bring continuity.
Neither of you can cite a bonafide source that speaks to the problem being Jeff?

And yes, its a new regime and if there is a toxic environment that is not caused by the coach, or the players have tuned him out, then the generic answer is the coach goes.
Very obvious.
There is a difference between an organizational issue vs. a coaching issue. Nalod suspects there was an organizational problem most of last year.
Why KP didn't "exit" properly? I don't think its been accurately told why.

Can you speak to a source that says Jeff wasn't a part of the problem with KP and the locker room? My point was, if things are good with KP and Jeff he shows up at that exit meeting despite what was going on with Phil. Also, is Jeff well regarded in the organization? He did get fired from his last job and he was hired by the previous administration. Part of what happened in Phoenix was on management but he also lost the team. In regards to an organizational issue, how did that carry over to and mess up the locker room? I think Rambis was a part of that and I still cannot figure out how his worth out weighs the potential negatives he brings as an assistant coach. I don't think moving on from Phil just fixed things. It stopped KP from being traded but there are still issues and not addressing them could mean that they come up again.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
Nalod
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8/18/2017  2:08 PM
CrushAlot wrote:
Nalod wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:kp is not on board with JH and RAMBUST, and if that is truly the case, their days are # regardless if this is a rebuilding yr. If we go into tank mode, he will still be replace. I really think he needs to win 40 games to keep his job.
I think you might be right. KP didn't just skip an exit meeting with Phil. He skipped a meeting with Jeff and Mills as well. I think if he really liked/respected Jeff he would have been there. Not much has been done since that happened to smooth the waters. Phil reacted to the skipped meeting by putting KP on the trading block and not renewing his favorite coach. (It was reported before Longstaff was not renewed that he would be going to Latvia again this past summer). Phil was let go but nothing else has changed other than Jeff is going to be able to run his own offense.
I was really excited about the hiring of Jeff as a coach. I liked what he did with his team in Phoenix and I liked that Phil was choosing a guy that wasn't part of his triangle past. However, I think things were really bad last year in the locker room. I do think Rambis is toxic to the situation and I am not sure why he is still on the bench. I think Jeff has to win back that locker room but the smarter move might have been to hire a new guy. The Knicks need continuity but if there was an us versus them culture in the locker room the smart move would be to move on from Rambis and probably Jeff as well. I do think Jeff was sabotaged a bit by his pres pushing the triangle. However, the I am going to have the last word reaction by the former pres did not help the KP situation in my opinion. Jeff was Phil's coach and the team was really bad on the court and the locker room was a mess. I think a clean break, not trading the future of the franchise, would be the best move going forward. In that scenario Jeff gets a bit of a raw deal but he was a part of what was broken last year. You don't trade what is best about your team in the present and future because that player takes an action that makes it apparent he is not happy with the dysfunction and losing. You try to fix the dysfunction and correct the losing. Firing Phil was the first step. The Knicks need to take more steps to get this thing righted. I think moving on from Rambis and probably Jeff is one of those steps.

fire a guy that is well regarded to bring continuity.
Neither of you can cite a bonafide source that speaks to the problem being Jeff?

And yes, its a new regime and if there is a toxic environment that is not caused by the coach, or the players have tuned him out, then the generic answer is the coach goes.
Very obvious.
There is a difference between an organizational issue vs. a coaching issue. Nalod suspects there was an organizational problem most of last year.
Why KP didn't "exit" properly? I don't think its been accurately told why.

Can you speak to a source that says Jeff wasn't a part of the problem with KP and the locker room? My point was, if things are good with KP and Jeff he shows up at that exit meeting despite what was going on with Phil. Also, is Jeff well regarded in the organization? He did get fired from his last job and he was hired by the previous administration. Part of what happened in Phoenix was on management but he also lost the team. In regards to an organizational issue, how did that carry over to and mess up the locker room? I think Rambis was a part of that and I still cannot figure out how his worth out weighs the potential negatives he brings as an assistant coach. I don't think moving on from Phil just fixed things. It stopped KP from being traded but there are still issues and not addressing them could mean that they come up again.

Im the one asking the question. Since your "THE GUY THAT POSTS THE STUFF" like all the time, its kind of weak to retort with "Can you speak to a source that says Jeff wasn't a part of the problem with KP and the locker room?" Im not the one making the claim. Crush, your better than that!!! Geting into a circle Jerk with Knicks1248 is going to have one ending. Or, "Can you tel it me it won't have a sticky ending"
Jeff's previous job has not bearing on this conversation. Jeff was often cited to his firing as not his doing or his fault.
KP might have a problem with Jeff's message, but not Jeff. KP might have a problem with Rambis's manner, but was his message out of line? Im guessing, Im the guy asking the quetion that you are answering and have not shown any eastablished link that gives it some form of integrity.

Like I said, its all guess work and Innuendo.

CrushAlot
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8/18/2017  3:17 PM
Nalod wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
Nalod wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:kp is not on board with JH and RAMBUST, and if that is truly the case, their days are # regardless if this is a rebuilding yr. If we go into tank mode, he will still be replace. I really think he needs to win 40 games to keep his job.
I think you might be right. KP didn't just skip an exit meeting with Phil. He skipped a meeting with Jeff and Mills as well. I think if he really liked/respected Jeff he would have been there. Not much has been done since that happened to smooth the waters. Phil reacted to the skipped meeting by putting KP on the trading block and not renewing his favorite coach. (It was reported before Longstaff was not renewed that he would be going to Latvia again this past summer). Phil was let go but nothing else has changed other than Jeff is going to be able to run his own offense.
I was really excited about the hiring of Jeff as a coach. I liked what he did with his team in Phoenix and I liked that Phil was choosing a guy that wasn't part of his triangle past. However, I think things were really bad last year in the locker room. I do think Rambis is toxic to the situation and I am not sure why he is still on the bench. I think Jeff has to win back that locker room but the smarter move might have been to hire a new guy. The Knicks need continuity but if there was an us versus them culture in the locker room the smart move would be to move on from Rambis and probably Jeff as well. I do think Jeff was sabotaged a bit by his pres pushing the triangle. However, the I am going to have the last word reaction by the former pres did not help the KP situation in my opinion. Jeff was Phil's coach and the team was really bad on the court and the locker room was a mess. I think a clean break, not trading the future of the franchise, would be the best move going forward. In that scenario Jeff gets a bit of a raw deal but he was a part of what was broken last year. You don't trade what is best about your team in the present and future because that player takes an action that makes it apparent he is not happy with the dysfunction and losing. You try to fix the dysfunction and correct the losing. Firing Phil was the first step. The Knicks need to take more steps to get this thing righted. I think moving on from Rambis and probably Jeff is one of those steps.

fire a guy that is well regarded to bring continuity.
Neither of you can cite a bonafide source that speaks to the problem being Jeff?

And yes, its a new regime and if there is a toxic environment that is not caused by the coach, or the players have tuned him out, then the generic answer is the coach goes.
Very obvious.
There is a difference between an organizational issue vs. a coaching issue. Nalod suspects there was an organizational problem most of last year.
Why KP didn't "exit" properly? I don't think its been accurately told why.

Can you speak to a source that says Jeff wasn't a part of the problem with KP and the locker room? My point was, if things are good with KP and Jeff he shows up at that exit meeting despite what was going on with Phil. Also, is Jeff well regarded in the organization? He did get fired from his last job and he was hired by the previous administration. Part of what happened in Phoenix was on management but he also lost the team. In regards to an organizational issue, how did that carry over to and mess up the locker room? I think Rambis was a part of that and I still cannot figure out how his worth out weighs the potential negatives he brings as an assistant coach. I don't think moving on from Phil just fixed things. It stopped KP from being traded but there are still issues and not addressing them could mean that they come up again.

Im the one asking the question. Since your "THE GUY THAT POSTS THE STUFF" like all the time, its kind of weak to retort with "Can you speak to a source that says Jeff wasn't a part of the problem with KP and the locker room?" Im not the one making the claim. Crush, your better than that!!! Geting into a circle Jerk with Knicks1248 is going to have one ending. Or, "Can you tel it me it won't have a sticky ending"
Jeff's previous job has not bearing on this conversation. Jeff was often cited to his firing as not his doing or his fault.
KP might have a problem with Jeff's message, but not Jeff. KP might have a problem with Rambis's manner, but was his message out of line? Im guessing, Im the guy asking the quetion that you are answering and have not shown any eastablished link that gives it some form of integrity.

Like I said, its all guess work and Innuendo.


We know KP was not responding to Jeff when he texted him earlier in the offseason. We know that the only coach on Jeff's staff that isn't returning was the favorite coach of KP's and there were reports that he was scheduled to go Latvia to train KP. KP and other players did not want Rambis in the head job the previous year. Only 5 guys returned from that squad but the exit meetings kept Rambis from getting the head job. I don't think the problems just went away with Phil leaving. If your issue is just with Phil you respond to your coaches texts.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
Nalod
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8/18/2017  5:26 PM
CrushAlot wrote:
Nalod wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
Nalod wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:kp is not on board with JH and RAMBUST, and if that is truly the case, their days are # regardless if this is a rebuilding yr. If we go into tank mode, he will still be replace. I really think he needs to win 40 games to keep his job.
I think you might be right. KP didn't just skip an exit meeting with Phil. He skipped a meeting with Jeff and Mills as well. I think if he really liked/respected Jeff he would have been there. Not much has been done since that happened to smooth the waters. Phil reacted to the skipped meeting by putting KP on the trading block and not renewing his favorite coach. (It was reported before Longstaff was not renewed that he would be going to Latvia again this past summer). Phil was let go but nothing else has changed other than Jeff is going to be able to run his own offense.
I was really excited about the hiring of Jeff as a coach. I liked what he did with his team in Phoenix and I liked that Phil was choosing a guy that wasn't part of his triangle past. However, I think things were really bad last year in the locker room. I do think Rambis is toxic to the situation and I am not sure why he is still on the bench. I think Jeff has to win back that locker room but the smarter move might have been to hire a new guy. The Knicks need continuity but if there was an us versus them culture in the locker room the smart move would be to move on from Rambis and probably Jeff as well. I do think Jeff was sabotaged a bit by his pres pushing the triangle. However, the I am going to have the last word reaction by the former pres did not help the KP situation in my opinion. Jeff was Phil's coach and the team was really bad on the court and the locker room was a mess. I think a clean break, not trading the future of the franchise, would be the best move going forward. In that scenario Jeff gets a bit of a raw deal but he was a part of what was broken last year. You don't trade what is best about your team in the present and future because that player takes an action that makes it apparent he is not happy with the dysfunction and losing. You try to fix the dysfunction and correct the losing. Firing Phil was the first step. The Knicks need to take more steps to get this thing righted. I think moving on from Rambis and probably Jeff is one of those steps.

fire a guy that is well regarded to bring continuity.
Neither of you can cite a bonafide source that speaks to the problem being Jeff?

And yes, its a new regime and if there is a toxic environment that is not caused by the coach, or the players have tuned him out, then the generic answer is the coach goes.
Very obvious.
There is a difference between an organizational issue vs. a coaching issue. Nalod suspects there was an organizational problem most of last year.
Why KP didn't "exit" properly? I don't think its been accurately told why.

Can you speak to a source that says Jeff wasn't a part of the problem with KP and the locker room? My point was, if things are good with KP and Jeff he shows up at that exit meeting despite what was going on with Phil. Also, is Jeff well regarded in the organization? He did get fired from his last job and he was hired by the previous administration. Part of what happened in Phoenix was on management but he also lost the team. In regards to an organizational issue, how did that carry over to and mess up the locker room? I think Rambis was a part of that and I still cannot figure out how his worth out weighs the potential negatives he brings as an assistant coach. I don't think moving on from Phil just fixed things. It stopped KP from being traded but there are still issues and not addressing them could mean that they come up again.

Im the one asking the question. Since your "THE GUY THAT POSTS THE STUFF" like all the time, its kind of weak to retort with "Can you speak to a source that says Jeff wasn't a part of the problem with KP and the locker room?" Im not the one making the claim. Crush, your better than that!!! Geting into a circle Jerk with Knicks1248 is going to have one ending. Or, "Can you tel it me it won't have a sticky ending"
Jeff's previous job has not bearing on this conversation. Jeff was often cited to his firing as not his doing or his fault.
KP might have a problem with Jeff's message, but not Jeff. KP might have a problem with Rambis's manner, but was his message out of line? Im guessing, Im the guy asking the quetion that you are answering and have not shown any eastablished link that gives it some form of integrity.

Like I said, its all guess work and Innuendo.


We know KP was not responding to Jeff when he texted him earlier in the offseason. We know that the only coach on Jeff's staff that isn't returning was the favorite coach of KP's and there were reports that he was scheduled to go Latvia to train KP. KP and other players did not want Rambis in the head job the previous year. Only 5 guys returned from that squad but the exit meetings kept Rambis from getting the head job. I don't think the problems just went away with Phil leaving. If your issue is just with Phil you respond to your coaches texts.

Seriously, your measuring this all with "reports" about texts?
Lets see if Jeff goes to Euro champinships and lets just see how it all plays out. Whats next? "Did you see how KP's left eyelid quivered when Jeff was critical of his shot selection?
I mean c'mon, coach's and players all get into it during a season. Your looking for stuff, Im saying let it play out. But your taking stuff and running to conclusions you cannot verify can you?
I agree that not off of it is rosey with Phil leaving. Mills had some sarcastic stuff about a very vigorous text relationship they have been having the last few weeks.

My interpretation is PHil still had a coaching mentality to his job and when a player shows insubordination like KP did then you have to react. With rose it was different because he apologized right away. KP went dark. It was a bad move by KP so lets not be too critical of PHil either.
I don't know the current state of things, but you know its not that important in the off season. Its how it all comes together in the fall that matters. If you need confirmation beforehand, well then go for it, but if you can't bring substance then when called out back it up.

CrushAlot
Posts: 59764
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8/18/2017  5:55 PM
Nalod wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
Nalod wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
Nalod wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:kp is not on board with JH and RAMBUST, and if that is truly the case, their days are # regardless if this is a rebuilding yr. If we go into tank mode, he will still be replace. I really think he needs to win 40 games to keep his job.
I think you might be right. KP didn't just skip an exit meeting with Phil. He skipped a meeting with Jeff and Mills as well. I think if he really liked/respected Jeff he would have been there. Not much has been done since that happened to smooth the waters. Phil reacted to the skipped meeting by putting KP on the trading block and not renewing his favorite coach. (It was reported before Longstaff was not renewed that he would be going to Latvia again this past summer). Phil was let go but nothing else has changed other than Jeff is going to be able to run his own offense.
I was really excited about the hiring of Jeff as a coach. I liked what he did with his team in Phoenix and I liked that Phil was choosing a guy that wasn't part of his triangle past. However, I think things were really bad last year in the locker room. I do think Rambis is toxic to the situation and I am not sure why he is still on the bench. I think Jeff has to win back that locker room but the smarter move might have been to hire a new guy. The Knicks need continuity but if there was an us versus them culture in the locker room the smart move would be to move on from Rambis and probably Jeff as well. I do think Jeff was sabotaged a bit by his pres pushing the triangle. However, the I am going to have the last word reaction by the former pres did not help the KP situation in my opinion. Jeff was Phil's coach and the team was really bad on the court and the locker room was a mess. I think a clean break, not trading the future of the franchise, would be the best move going forward. In that scenario Jeff gets a bit of a raw deal but he was a part of what was broken last year. You don't trade what is best about your team in the present and future because that player takes an action that makes it apparent he is not happy with the dysfunction and losing. You try to fix the dysfunction and correct the losing. Firing Phil was the first step. The Knicks need to take more steps to get this thing righted. I think moving on from Rambis and probably Jeff is one of those steps.

fire a guy that is well regarded to bring continuity.
Neither of you can cite a bonafide source that speaks to the problem being Jeff?

And yes, its a new regime and if there is a toxic environment that is not caused by the coach, or the players have tuned him out, then the generic answer is the coach goes.
Very obvious.
There is a difference between an organizational issue vs. a coaching issue. Nalod suspects there was an organizational problem most of last year.
Why KP didn't "exit" properly? I don't think its been accurately told why.

Can you speak to a source that says Jeff wasn't a part of the problem with KP and the locker room? My point was, if things are good with KP and Jeff he shows up at that exit meeting despite what was going on with Phil. Also, is Jeff well regarded in the organization? He did get fired from his last job and he was hired by the previous administration. Part of what happened in Phoenix was on management but he also lost the team. In regards to an organizational issue, how did that carry over to and mess up the locker room? I think Rambis was a part of that and I still cannot figure out how his worth out weighs the potential negatives he brings as an assistant coach. I don't think moving on from Phil just fixed things. It stopped KP from being traded but there are still issues and not addressing them could mean that they come up again.

Im the one asking the question. Since your "THE GUY THAT POSTS THE STUFF" like all the time, its kind of weak to retort with "Can you speak to a source that says Jeff wasn't a part of the problem with KP and the locker room?" Im not the one making the claim. Crush, your better than that!!! Geting into a circle Jerk with Knicks1248 is going to have one ending. Or, "Can you tel it me it won't have a sticky ending"
Jeff's previous job has not bearing on this conversation. Jeff was often cited to his firing as not his doing or his fault.
KP might have a problem with Jeff's message, but not Jeff. KP might have a problem with Rambis's manner, but was his message out of line? Im guessing, Im the guy asking the quetion that you are answering and have not shown any eastablished link that gives it some form of integrity.

Like I said, its all guess work and Innuendo.


We know KP was not responding to Jeff when he texted him earlier in the offseason. We know that the only coach on Jeff's staff that isn't returning was the favorite coach of KP's and there were reports that he was scheduled to go Latvia to train KP. KP and other players did not want Rambis in the head job the previous year. Only 5 guys returned from that squad but the exit meetings kept Rambis from getting the head job. I don't think the problems just went away with Phil leaving. If your issue is just with Phil you respond to your coaches texts.

Seriously, your measuring this all with "reports" about texts?
Lets see if Jeff goes to Euro champinships and lets just see how it all plays out. Whats next? "Did you see how KP's left eyelid quivered when Jeff was critical of his shot selection?
I mean c'mon, coach's and players all get into it during a season. Your looking for stuff, Im saying let it play out. But your taking stuff and running to conclusions you cannot verify can you?
I agree that not off of it is rosey with Phil leaving. Mills had some sarcastic stuff about a very vigorous text relationship they have been having the last few weeks.

My interpretation is PHil still had a coaching mentality to his job and when a player shows insubordination like KP did then you have to react. With rose it was different because he apologized right away. KP went dark. It was a bad move by KP so lets not be too critical of PHil either.
I don't know the current state of things, but you know its not that important in the off season. Its how it all comes together in the fall that matters. If you need confirmation beforehand, well then go for it, but if you can't bring substance then when called out back it up.

I am not sure where you are going with this but comparing not answering texts from your coach to eye lid b.s. is a pretty weak attempt to gloss over an issue. It was also reported that Jeff yelled at Porzingis frequently and he did not do that with other players. It was reported as something that damaged their relationship (not just a coach yelling at his players). Again, KP skipped an exit meeting with Jeff, Phil and Mills. If he respectedand had a good relationship with Jeff he goes to that meeting in my opinion.
I don't think things are good. I also don't think that everything was fixed when Phil got fired.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
Nalod
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8/18/2017  7:50 PM
CrushAlot wrote:
Nalod wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
Nalod wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
Nalod wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:kp is not on board with JH and RAMBUST, and if that is truly the case, their days are # regardless if this is a rebuilding yr. If we go into tank mode, he will still be replace. I really think he needs to win 40 games to keep his job.
I think you might be right. KP didn't just skip an exit meeting with Phil. He skipped a meeting with Jeff and Mills as well. I think if he really liked/respected Jeff he would have been there. Not much has been done since that happened to smooth the waters. Phil reacted to the skipped meeting by putting KP on the trading block and not renewing his favorite coach. (It was reported before Longstaff was not renewed that he would be going to Latvia again this past summer). Phil was let go but nothing else has changed other than Jeff is going to be able to run his own offense.
I was really excited about the hiring of Jeff as a coach. I liked what he did with his team in Phoenix and I liked that Phil was choosing a guy that wasn't part of his triangle past. However, I think things were really bad last year in the locker room. I do think Rambis is toxic to the situation and I am not sure why he is still on the bench. I think Jeff has to win back that locker room but the smarter move might have been to hire a new guy. The Knicks need continuity but if there was an us versus them culture in the locker room the smart move would be to move on from Rambis and probably Jeff as well. I do think Jeff was sabotaged a bit by his pres pushing the triangle. However, the I am going to have the last word reaction by the former pres did not help the KP situation in my opinion. Jeff was Phil's coach and the team was really bad on the court and the locker room was a mess. I think a clean break, not trading the future of the franchise, would be the best move going forward. In that scenario Jeff gets a bit of a raw deal but he was a part of what was broken last year. You don't trade what is best about your team in the present and future because that player takes an action that makes it apparent he is not happy with the dysfunction and losing. You try to fix the dysfunction and correct the losing. Firing Phil was the first step. The Knicks need to take more steps to get this thing righted. I think moving on from Rambis and probably Jeff is one of those steps.

fire a guy that is well regarded to bring continuity.
Neither of you can cite a bonafide source that speaks to the problem being Jeff?

And yes, its a new regime and if there is a toxic environment that is not caused by the coach, or the players have tuned him out, then the generic answer is the coach goes.
Very obvious.
There is a difference between an organizational issue vs. a coaching issue. Nalod suspects there was an organizational problem most of last year.
Why KP didn't "exit" properly? I don't think its been accurately told why.

Can you speak to a source that says Jeff wasn't a part of the problem with KP and the locker room? My point was, if things are good with KP and Jeff he shows up at that exit meeting despite what was going on with Phil. Also, is Jeff well regarded in the organization? He did get fired from his last job and he was hired by the previous administration. Part of what happened in Phoenix was on management but he also lost the team. In regards to an organizational issue, how did that carry over to and mess up the locker room? I think Rambis was a part of that and I still cannot figure out how his worth out weighs the potential negatives he brings as an assistant coach. I don't think moving on from Phil just fixed things. It stopped KP from being traded but there are still issues and not addressing them could mean that they come up again.

Im the one asking the question. Since your "THE GUY THAT POSTS THE STUFF" like all the time, its kind of weak to retort with "Can you speak to a source that says Jeff wasn't a part of the problem with KP and the locker room?" Im not the one making the claim. Crush, your better than that!!! Geting into a circle Jerk with Knicks1248 is going to have one ending. Or, "Can you tel it me it won't have a sticky ending"
Jeff's previous job has not bearing on this conversation. Jeff was often cited to his firing as not his doing or his fault.
KP might have a problem with Jeff's message, but not Jeff. KP might have a problem with Rambis's manner, but was his message out of line? Im guessing, Im the guy asking the quetion that you are answering and have not shown any eastablished link that gives it some form of integrity.

Like I said, its all guess work and Innuendo.


We know KP was not responding to Jeff when he texted him earlier in the offseason. We know that the only coach on Jeff's staff that isn't returning was the favorite coach of KP's and there were reports that he was scheduled to go Latvia to train KP. KP and other players did not want Rambis in the head job the previous year. Only 5 guys returned from that squad but the exit meetings kept Rambis from getting the head job. I don't think the problems just went away with Phil leaving. If your issue is just with Phil you respond to your coaches texts.

Seriously, your measuring this all with "reports" about texts?
Lets see if Jeff goes to Euro champinships and lets just see how it all plays out. Whats next? "Did you see how KP's left eyelid quivered when Jeff was critical of his shot selection?
I mean c'mon, coach's and players all get into it during a season. Your looking for stuff, Im saying let it play out. But your taking stuff and running to conclusions you cannot verify can you?
I agree that not off of it is rosey with Phil leaving. Mills had some sarcastic stuff about a very vigorous text relationship they have been having the last few weeks.

My interpretation is PHil still had a coaching mentality to his job and when a player shows insubordination like KP did then you have to react. With rose it was different because he apologized right away. KP went dark. It was a bad move by KP so lets not be too critical of PHil either.
I don't know the current state of things, but you know its not that important in the off season. Its how it all comes together in the fall that matters. If you need confirmation beforehand, well then go for it, but if you can't bring substance then when called out back it up.

I am not sure where you are going with this but comparing not answering texts from your coach to eye lid b.s. is a pretty weak attempt to gloss over an issue. It was also reported that Jeff yelled at Porzingis frequently and he did not do that with other players. It was reported as something that damaged their relationship (not just a coach yelling at his players). Again, KP skipped an exit meeting with Jeff, Phil and Mills. If he respectedand had a good relationship with Jeff he goes to that meeting in my opinion.
I don't think things are good. I also don't think that everything was fixed when Phil got fired.

I guess we'll just see how it all plays out.
If not so good, then Blatt will have to come in, make nice Euro with him and hopefully the Princeton Gang gets it right!

TLover
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8/19/2017  10:44 AM
It would not surprise me if Mills & Co consulted with Blatt this offseason to get his take on the Knicks roster and how they should be utilized.

Me personally likes Ettore Messina assistant from the spurs who has an impressive European resume and might relate better with the players.

knicks1248
Posts: 42059
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8/19/2017  11:40 AM
Nalod wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
Nalod wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
Nalod wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
Nalod wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:kp is not on board with JH and RAMBUST, and if that is truly the case, their days are # regardless if this is a rebuilding yr. If we go into tank mode, he will still be replace. I really think he needs to win 40 games to keep his job.
I think you might be right. KP didn't just skip an exit meeting with Phil. He skipped a meeting with Jeff and Mills as well. I think if he really liked/respected Jeff he would have been there. Not much has been done since that happened to smooth the waters. Phil reacted to the skipped meeting by putting KP on the trading block and not renewing his favorite coach. (It was reported before Longstaff was not renewed that he would be going to Latvia again this past summer). Phil was let go but nothing else has changed other than Jeff is going to be able to run his own offense.
I was really excited about the hiring of Jeff as a coach. I liked what he did with his team in Phoenix and I liked that Phil was choosing a guy that wasn't part of his triangle past. However, I think things were really bad last year in the locker room. I do think Rambis is toxic to the situation and I am not sure why he is still on the bench. I think Jeff has to win back that locker room but the smarter move might have been to hire a new guy. The Knicks need continuity but if there was an us versus them culture in the locker room the smart move would be to move on from Rambis and probably Jeff as well. I do think Jeff was sabotaged a bit by his pres pushing the triangle. However, the I am going to have the last word reaction by the former pres did not help the KP situation in my opinion. Jeff was Phil's coach and the team was really bad on the court and the locker room was a mess. I think a clean break, not trading the future of the franchise, would be the best move going forward. In that scenario Jeff gets a bit of a raw deal but he was a part of what was broken last year. You don't trade what is best about your team in the present and future because that player takes an action that makes it apparent he is not happy with the dysfunction and losing. You try to fix the dysfunction and correct the losing. Firing Phil was the first step. The Knicks need to take more steps to get this thing righted. I think moving on from Rambis and probably Jeff is one of those steps.

fire a guy that is well regarded to bring continuity.
Neither of you can cite a bonafide source that speaks to the problem being Jeff?

And yes, its a new regime and if there is a toxic environment that is not caused by the coach, or the players have tuned him out, then the generic answer is the coach goes.
Very obvious.
There is a difference between an organizational issue vs. a coaching issue. Nalod suspects there was an organizational problem most of last year.
Why KP didn't "exit" properly? I don't think its been accurately told why.

Can you speak to a source that says Jeff wasn't a part of the problem with KP and the locker room? My point was, if things are good with KP and Jeff he shows up at that exit meeting despite what was going on with Phil. Also, is Jeff well regarded in the organization? He did get fired from his last job and he was hired by the previous administration. Part of what happened in Phoenix was on management but he also lost the team. In regards to an organizational issue, how did that carry over to and mess up the locker room? I think Rambis was a part of that and I still cannot figure out how his worth out weighs the potential negatives he brings as an assistant coach. I don't think moving on from Phil just fixed things. It stopped KP from being traded but there are still issues and not addressing them could mean that they come up again.

Im the one asking the question. Since your "THE GUY THAT POSTS THE STUFF" like all the time, its kind of weak to retort with "Can you speak to a source that says Jeff wasn't a part of the problem with KP and the locker room?" Im not the one making the claim. Crush, your better than that!!! Geting into a circle Jerk with Knicks1248 is going to have one ending. Or, "Can you tel it me it won't have a sticky ending"
Jeff's previous job has not bearing on this conversation. Jeff was often cited to his firing as not his doing or his fault.
KP might have a problem with Jeff's message, but not Jeff. KP might have a problem with Rambis's manner, but was his message out of line? Im guessing, Im the guy asking the quetion that you are answering and have not shown any eastablished link that gives it some form of integrity.

Like I said, its all guess work and Innuendo.


We know KP was not responding to Jeff when he texted him earlier in the offseason. We know that the only coach on Jeff's staff that isn't returning was the favorite coach of KP's and there were reports that he was scheduled to go Latvia to train KP. KP and other players did not want Rambis in the head job the previous year. Only 5 guys returned from that squad but the exit meetings kept Rambis from getting the head job. I don't think the problems just went away with Phil leaving. If your issue is just with Phil you respond to your coaches texts.

Seriously, your measuring this all with "reports" about texts?
Lets see if Jeff goes to Euro champinships and lets just see how it all plays out. Whats next? "Did you see how KP's left eyelid quivered when Jeff was critical of his shot selection?
I mean c'mon, coach's and players all get into it during a season. Your looking for stuff, Im saying let it play out. But your taking stuff and running to conclusions you cannot verify can you?
I agree that not off of it is rosey with Phil leaving. Mills had some sarcastic stuff about a very vigorous text relationship they have been having the last few weeks.

My interpretation is PHil still had a coaching mentality to his job and when a player shows insubordination like KP did then you have to react. With rose it was different because he apologized right away. KP went dark. It was a bad move by KP so lets not be too critical of PHil either.
I don't know the current state of things, but you know its not that important in the off season. Its how it all comes together in the fall that matters. If you need confirmation beforehand, well then go for it, but if you can't bring substance then when called out back it up.

I am not sure where you are going with this but comparing not answering texts from your coach to eye lid b.s. is a pretty weak attempt to gloss over an issue. It was also reported that Jeff yelled at Porzingis frequently and he did not do that with other players. It was reported as something that damaged their relationship (not just a coach yelling at his players). Again, KP skipped an exit meeting with Jeff, Phil and Mills. If he respectedand had a good relationship with Jeff he goes to that meeting in my opinion.
I don't think things are good. I also don't think that everything was fixed when Phil got fired.

I guess we'll just see how it all plays out.
If not so good, then Blatt will have to come in, make nice Euro with him and hopefully the Princeton Gang gets it right!

you don't have to guess or assume anything because its so transpaerent. JH is not a really good coach, he's more like an assistant, similar to what woodson is/was.

Everybody in the front office needs to go except for PERRY, who has a ton of experience in the role he was hired for. Jeff loss his locker room real quick with the suns, to the point they made some bad moves in the process that cemented his exit. He loss the locker room last yr when phil needed to appoint rambust as a defense coordinator .

Rambo is still going to come in with his lame defensive schemes, jeff is still going to use kp wrong (as if he's channing frye) and he doesn't have the correct guards (3)to run his offense.

Do you remember the sun ran 3 guards(KJ, JH, and Dan Majerle), and the only success hornacek had as a coach is when he ran Thomas, dragic, and Bledsoe. I don't think the knicks have the players to help JH succeed

ES
The Princeton Mafia

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