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Knicks Sign Baker too, he got the big table
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BigRedDog
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8/9/2017  2:22 PM
martin wrote:
BigRedDog wrote:
Welpee wrote:
fitzfarm wrote:Ron is a premium defender in this league and he's one of the few on the team that can effectively defend the three ball the biggest part of the ***** chucking league .
Why do people keep saying Ron is a good defender? Just because he hustles and plays next to dudes who play no defense doesn't mean he's a good defender. He give effort and plays hard (I'll give him that), I seemed to remember when he was put in position to guard anyone with a ounce of quickness he got exposed.

Agreed. Harden lit up Baker badly when they played. Same as Westbrook. Last yr offense was bad, hustled but same as any d leaguer. Over rated defensively. Contract given to him was ridiculous. Should have been paid about 1/2 , 3 yr contact and if anything a team option. I think Hornachek loves him and had something to do with the contract. Mills did this before Perry came on. Hopefully we won't see these bad contracts in the future.

How is this an argument that holds any water? Generally speaking, Harden and Westbrook can light up ANY defender on any given day. You just compared Baker's defense against 2 MVP candidates

I think people just over rate Bakers defense. Bruce Bowen was a great defensive player. I would watch him and he shut out,( or at least made it so much harder) whichever player he was defending, mvp or not. Stats can be deceiving. I like the eye test and when I watch Baker I see someone hustling but I don't see a shut down defender, or at least making it harder to go against him.

Briggs-- Frank is 2 yrs away from being 2 years away
AUTOADVERT
Welpee
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8/9/2017  2:26 PM
BigRedDog wrote:
martin wrote:
BigRedDog wrote:
Welpee wrote:
fitzfarm wrote:Ron is a premium defender in this league and he's one of the few on the team that can effectively defend the three ball the biggest part of the ***** chucking league .
Why do people keep saying Ron is a good defender? Just because he hustles and plays next to dudes who play no defense doesn't mean he's a good defender. He give effort and plays hard (I'll give him that), I seemed to remember when he was put in position to guard anyone with a ounce of quickness he got exposed.

Agreed. Harden lit up Baker badly when they played. Same as Westbrook. Last yr offense was bad, hustled but same as any d leaguer. Over rated defensively. Contract given to him was ridiculous. Should have been paid about 1/2 , 3 yr contact and if anything a team option. I think Hornachek loves him and had something to do with the contract. Mills did this before Perry came on. Hopefully we won't see these bad contracts in the future.

How is this an argument that holds any water? Generally speaking, Harden and Westbrook can light up ANY defender on any given day. You just compared Baker's defense against 2 MVP candidates

I think people just over rate Bakers defense. Bruce Bowen was a great defensive player. I would watch him and he shut out,( or at least made it so much harder) whichever player he was defending, mvp or not. Stats can be deceiving. I like the eye test and when I watch Baker I see someone hustling but I don't see a shut down defender, or at least making it harder to go against him.

It's as if people evaluate Baker's defense relative to Derrick Rose, who last year may have been one of the worse defensively point guards in recent memory. Jennings looked solid on D compared to Rose.
martin
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8/9/2017  2:32 PM
Bonn1997 wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:BAKER HAS A NTC..LMAO..who's this guys agent, I love him

Bobby Marks
ESPN

The Knicks Ron Baker has a one-year bird restriction based on the player option for 2018-19. Baker technically has a no trade clause and would have to approve of any trade.


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18h


Sounds fishy but could be true. What does "technically has a no trade clause" mean exactly? It's not a very technical issue. Either he does or doesn't.

I think it's an instance where you can't trade the player cause of the type of contract situation they have, not because it's written into their contract ala Melo.

It happened with LT and Amundson couple years back too

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knicks1248
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8/9/2017  2:52 PM
martin wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:BAKER HAS A NTC..LMAO..who's this guys agent, I love him

Bobby Marks
ESPN

The Knicks Ron Baker has a one-year bird restriction based on the player option for 2018-19. Baker technically has a no trade clause and would have to approve of any trade.


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18h


Sounds fishy but could be true. What does "technically has a no trade clause" mean exactly? It's not a very technical issue. Either he does or doesn't.

I think it's an instance where you can't trade the player cause of the type of contract situation they have, not because it's written into their contract ala Melo.

It happened with LT and Amundson couple years back too

im just as confused as bonn, technically meaning what?

if he has to approve all trades, that seems like he's in full control

ES
fishmike
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8/9/2017  3:13 PM
knicks1248 wrote:
martin wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:BAKER HAS A NTC..LMAO..who's this guys agent, I love him

Bobby Marks
ESPN

The Knicks Ron Baker has a one-year bird restriction based on the player option for 2018-19. Baker technically has a no trade clause and would have to approve of any trade.


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18h


Sounds fishy but could be true. What does "technically has a no trade clause" mean exactly? It's not a very technical issue. Either he does or doesn't.

I think it's an instance where you can't trade the player cause of the type of contract situation they have, not because it's written into their contract ala Melo.

It happened with LT and Amundson couple years back too

im just as confused as bonn, technically meaning what?

if he has to approve all trades, that seems like he's in full control

nothing to do with agents or the KNicks. You will have to find some other drama to spout about.

(4) One-Year Contracts. A player who signs a one-year contract and who will be a Bird or Early Bird
free agent at the end of the contract cannot be traded without the player’s consent. If the player
consents and is traded, he will lose whatever “Bird” rights he has acquired (i.e., he will be
considered to have moved to the new team as a free agent.)

http://www.nba.com/media/CBA101.pdf

Its because at the end of the year he's an early bird right player, so the Knicks can match offers to him like he's an RFA. If the Knicks trade him he loses those Bird rights, which is why the player has to approve.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
fitzfarm
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8/9/2017  4:02 PM
martin wrote:
BigRedDog wrote:
Welpee wrote:
fitzfarm wrote:Ron is a premium defender in this league and he's one of the few on the team that can effectively defend the three ball the biggest part of the ***** chucking league .
Why do people keep saying Ron is a good defender? Just because he hustles and plays next to dudes who play no defense doesn't mean he's a good defender. He give effort and plays hard (I'll give him that), I seemed to remember when he was put in position to guard anyone with a ounce of quickness he got exposed.

Agreed. Harden lit up Baker badly when they played. Same as Westbrook. Last yr offense was bad, hustled but same as any d leaguer. Over rated defensively. Contract given to him was ridiculous. Should have been paid about 1/2 , 3 yr contact and if anything a team option. I think Hornachek loves him and had something to do with the contract. Mills did this before Perry came on. Hopefully we won't see these bad contracts in the future.

How is this an argument that holds any water? Generally speaking, Harden and Westbrook can light up ANY defender on any given day. You just compared Baker's defense against 2 MVP candidates

Agreed Martin, its like Westbrook and harden didn't lit up 98% of there defenders. Ron is probably our best defender, also probably our highest bball IQ player. Ron is in the right place at the right time on both ends of the floor more then anyone else on the team. Ron makes his teammates better on both ends of the floor . Ron is one of the few players on the team that makes the game easy for the rest of his teammates .

Haters gonna hate Martin, we just know a great defender/team player when we see one... regardless of all the hate there is no denying he is a top defender in this league . If the haters bring up Westbrook,harden they obviously don't have much ground to stand on. It's not like Kawai or tony Allen don't get lit up by those players either...

So haters Ahhh try again.
fitzfarm
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8/9/2017  4:11 PM

How can people even call him g league... that's such a insulting thing to say to a nba talent like Ron .
fitzfarm
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8/9/2017  4:17 PM

Ron kept us close in this game while almost getting a triple double vs lowery. Oh and he was minus kp and melo
Knickoftime
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8/9/2017  4:30 PM
Gary Payton didn't peak as a defender until his 5th season.

Bruce Bowen didn't peak as a defender until his 5th season at age 29 and didn't have his best season until age 31.

That is not to say Baker will ever be Payton or Bowen. It's just to point out the players get better defensively with experience too. That is not exclusive to offense.

It only means that he's a rookie, and if nothing else shows a willingness to play defense. If his skills develop the upside is obvious
Welpee
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8/9/2017  5:00 PM
Knickoftime wrote:Gary Payton didn't peak as a defender until his 5th season.

Bruce Bowen didn't peak as a defender until his 5th season at age 29 and didn't have his best season until age 31.

That is not to say Baker will ever be Payton or Bowen. It's just to point out the players get better defensively with experience too. That is not exclusive to offense.

It only means that he's a rookie, and if nothing else shows a willingness to play defense. If his skills develop the upside is obvious

Payton didn't suddenly become athletic in his 5th year. I will never question Bakers willingness to play D. I say lets wait and see on Baker and not proclaim him as a great defender until he proves it.
Knickoftime
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8/9/2017  5:24 PM
Welpee wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:Gary Payton didn't peak as a defender until his 5th season.

Bruce Bowen didn't peak as a defender until his 5th season at age 29 and didn't have his best season until age 31.

That is not to say Baker will ever be Payton or Bowen. It's just to point out the players get better defensively with experience too. That is not exclusive to offense.

It only means that he's a rookie, and if nothing else shows a willingness to play defense. If his skills develop the upside is obvious

Payton didn't suddenly become athletic in his 5th year. I will never question Bakers willingness to play D. I say lets wait and see on Baker and not proclaim him as a great defender until he proves it.

I don't know that I'd call him unathletic. Absolutely I agree he shouldn't be called great. It just seems some people were going too far the other way.

It's just hard to imagine how someone actually typed out 'got lit up by Westbrook' seriously.
meloshouldgo
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8/9/2017  7:01 PM
martin wrote:

Ok so the whole "table" thing is hilarious.

I cannot teach anybody anything. I can only try to make them think - Socrates
meloshouldgo
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8/9/2017  7:05 PM
Bonn1997 wrote:
martin wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
martin wrote:
blkexec wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:he better have game like the contract indicates

What would that be? He's paid much less than an average player.

His defensive energy and diversity out performs the average player.

Weird to me that when judging player most look at PPG or FG% first and totally ignore defense and defensive potential of a player. Clearly Baker did not shoot/score well but he played some stout D.

Dude the game is about the 3 ball, he does play respectable defense, and he hustles(like most d leaguers trying to make the cut)but the game is all about the offense, an area he's really bad in.

You say the weirdest things some times, focusing in on pointless points. Baker a rookie and we judge him as such.

Would you rather have a PG who manages team and thinks pass first while playing decent D or a PG who only puts up flashy points and doesn't play D?


I think we know the answer to your question.

Potassium iodide or that's what I call this player who wants to be a Knick.

I cannot teach anybody anything. I can only try to make them think - Socrates
BigRedDog
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8/9/2017  7:19 PM
fitzfarm wrote:
martin wrote:
BigRedDog wrote:
Welpee wrote:
fitzfarm wrote:Ron is a premium defender in this league and he's one of the few on the team that can effectively defend the three ball the biggest part of the ***** chucking league .
Why do people keep saying Ron is a good defender? Just because he hustles and plays next to dudes who play no defense doesn't mean he's a good defender. He give effort and plays hard (I'll give him that), I seemed to remember when he was put in position to guard anyone with a ounce of quickness he got exposed.

Agreed. Harden lit up Baker badly when they played. Same as Westbrook. Last yr offense was bad, hustled but same as any d leaguer. Over rated defensively. Contract given to him was ridiculous. Should have been paid about 1/2 , 3 yr contact and if anything a team option. I think Hornachek loves him and had something to do with the contract. Mills did this before Perry came on. Hopefully we won't see these bad contracts in the future.

How is this an argument that holds any water? Generally speaking, Harden and Westbrook can light up ANY defender on any given day. You just compared Baker's defense against 2 MVP candidates

Agreed Martin, its like Westbrook and harden didn't lit up 98% of there defenders. Ron is probably our best defender, also probably our highest bball IQ player. Ron is in the right place at the right time on both ends of the floor more then anyone else on the team. Ron makes his teammates better on both ends of the floor . Ron is one of the few players on the team that makes the game easy for the rest of his teammates .

Haters gonna hate Martin, we just know a great defender/team player when we see one... regardless of all the hate there is no denying he is a top defender in this league . If the haters bring up Westbrook,harden they obviously don't have much ground to stand on. It's not like Kawai or tony Allen don't get lit up by those players either...

So haters Ahhh try again.

So, because I think Baker is the end of the bench player now I'm a hater? Grow up. Top defender in the league? What r u smoking? So he should make one of the all defensive teams this yr? Want to place a bet on this? Top defenders in the league actually shut top offensive players down at least sometimes. Need more proof than some homer stating this.

Briggs-- Frank is 2 yrs away from being 2 years away
Knickoftime
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8/9/2017  7:21 PM
BigRedDog wrote:
fitzfarm wrote:
martin wrote:
BigRedDog wrote:
Welpee wrote:
fitzfarm wrote:Ron is a premium defender in this league and he's one of the few on the team that can effectively defend the three ball the biggest part of the ***** chucking league .
Why do people keep saying Ron is a good defender? Just because he hustles and plays next to dudes who play no defense doesn't mean he's a good defender. He give effort and plays hard (I'll give him that), I seemed to remember when he was put in position to guard anyone with a ounce of quickness he got exposed.

Agreed. Harden lit up Baker badly when they played. Same as Westbrook. Last yr offense was bad, hustled but same as any d leaguer. Over rated defensively. Contract given to him was ridiculous. Should have been paid about 1/2 , 3 yr contact and if anything a team option. I think Hornachek loves him and had something to do with the contract. Mills did this before Perry came on. Hopefully we won't see these bad contracts in the future.

How is this an argument that holds any water? Generally speaking, Harden and Westbrook can light up ANY defender on any given day. You just compared Baker's defense against 2 MVP candidates

Agreed Martin, its like Westbrook and harden didn't lit up 98% of there defenders. Ron is probably our best defender, also probably our highest bball IQ player. Ron is in the right place at the right time on both ends of the floor more then anyone else on the team. Ron makes his teammates better on both ends of the floor . Ron is one of the few players on the team that makes the game easy for the rest of his teammates .

Haters gonna hate Martin, we just know a great defender/team player when we see one... regardless of all the hate there is no denying he is a top defender in this league . If the haters bring up Westbrook,harden they obviously don't have much ground to stand on. It's not like Kawai or tony Allen don't get lit up by those players either...

So haters Ahhh try again.

So, because I think Baker is the end of the bench player now I'm a hater? Grow up. Top defender in the league? What r u smoking? So he should make one of the all defensive teams this yr? Want to place a bet on this? Top defenders in the league actually shut top offensive players down at least sometimes. Need more proof than some homer stating this.

Who is a top defender of the guard position?
knicks1248
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8/9/2017  7:32 PM
fishmike wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
martin wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:BAKER HAS A NTC..LMAO..who's this guys agent, I love him

Bobby Marks
ESPN

The Knicks Ron Baker has a one-year bird restriction based on the player option for 2018-19. Baker technically has a no trade clause and would have to approve of any trade.


share



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18h


Sounds fishy but could be true. What does "technically has a no trade clause" mean exactly? It's not a very technical issue. Either he does or doesn't.

I think it's an instance where you can't trade the player cause of the type of contract situation they have, not because it's written into their contract ala Melo.

It happened with LT and Amundson couple years back too

im just as confused as bonn, technically meaning what?

if he has to approve all trades, that seems like he's in full control

nothing to do with agents or the KNicks. You will have to find some other drama to spout about.

(4) One-Year Contracts. A player who signs a one-year contract and who will be a Bird or Early Bird
free agent at the end of the contract cannot be traded without the player’s consent. If the player
consents and is traded, he will lose whatever “Bird” rights he has acquired (i.e., he will be
considered to have moved to the new team as a free agent.)

http://www.nba.com/media/CBA101.pdf

Its because at the end of the year he's an early bird right player, so the Knicks can match offers to him like he's an RFA. If the Knicks trade him he loses those Bird rights, which is why the player has to approve.

Drama, you sound foolish, especially when i stated i wasn't sure how it worked..smh

His agent got him 9 mill for 20+ games, that is a very good agent...

ES
fitzfarm
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8/9/2017  7:44 PM
Knickoftime wrote:
BigRedDog wrote:
fitzfarm wrote:
martin wrote:
BigRedDog wrote:
Welpee wrote:
fitzfarm wrote:Ron is a premium defender in this league and he's one of the few on the team that can effectively defend the three ball the biggest part of the ***** chucking league .
Why do people keep saying Ron is a good defender? Just because he hustles and plays next to dudes who play no defense doesn't mean he's a good defender. He give effort and plays hard (I'll give him that), I seemed to remember when he was put in position to guard anyone with a ounce of quickness he got exposed.

Agreed. Harden lit up Baker badly when they played. Same as Westbrook. Last yr offense was bad, hustled but same as any d leaguer. Over rated defensively. Contract given to him was ridiculous. Should have been paid about 1/2 , 3 yr contact and if anything a team option. I think Hornachek loves him and had something to do with the contract. Mills did this before Perry came on. Hopefully we won't see these bad contracts in the future.

How is this an argument that holds any water? Generally speaking, Harden and Westbrook can light up ANY defender on any given day. You just compared Baker's defense against 2 MVP candidates

Agreed Martin, its like Westbrook and harden didn't lit up 98% of there defenders. Ron is probably our best defender, also probably our highest bball IQ player. Ron is in the right place at the right time on both ends of the floor more then anyone else on the team. Ron makes his teammates better on both ends of the floor . Ron is one of the few players on the team that makes the game easy for the rest of his teammates .

Haters gonna hate Martin, we just know a great defender/team player when we see one... regardless of all the hate there is no denying he is a top defender in this league . If the haters bring up Westbrook,harden they obviously don't have much ground to stand on. It's not like Kawai or tony Allen don't get lit up by those players either...

So haters Ahhh try again.

So, because I think Baker is the end of the bench player now I'm a hater? Grow up. Top defender in the league? What r u smoking? So he should make one of the all defensive teams this yr? Want to place a bet on this? Top defenders in the league actually shut top offensive players down at least sometimes. Need more proof than some homer stating this.

Who is a top defender of the guard position?

Exactly baker is our top defensive guard that's not even debatable. After seeing what he did the end of the year and vs lowery how on earth can you call him a end of the bench player ? The guy is our ultimate glue player he makes everyone better and is always in the right spot at the right time. I think he is also the smartest basketball player on the team.
reub
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8/9/2017  8:32 PM
I'm liking the idea of Baker and Frank in the backcourt together causing havoc for the other team's guards. I think it'll happen.
Welpee
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8/9/2017  9:52 PM
Knickoftime wrote:
Welpee wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:Gary Payton didn't peak as a defender until his 5th season.

Bruce Bowen didn't peak as a defender until his 5th season at age 29 and didn't have his best season until age 31.

That is not to say Baker will ever be Payton or Bowen. It's just to point out the players get better defensively with experience too. That is not exclusive to offense.

It only means that he's a rookie, and if nothing else shows a willingness to play defense. If his skills develop the upside is obvious

Payton didn't suddenly become athletic in his 5th year. I will never question Bakers willingness to play D. I say lets wait and see on Baker and not proclaim him as a great defender until he proves it.

I don't know that I'd call him unathletic. Absolutely I agree he shouldn't be called great. It just seems some people were going too far the other way.

It's just hard to imagine how someone actually typed out 'got lit up by Westbrook' seriously.

My main point is Baker's limited athleticism is what (in my opinion) prevents him now and probably in the future from being a top defender. Payton didn't have such problems.
Welpee
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8/9/2017  9:55 PM
fitzfarm wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
BigRedDog wrote:
fitzfarm wrote:
martin wrote:
BigRedDog wrote:
Welpee wrote:
fitzfarm wrote:Ron is a premium defender in this league and he's one of the few on the team that can effectively defend the three ball the biggest part of the ***** chucking league .
Why do people keep saying Ron is a good defender? Just because he hustles and plays next to dudes who play no defense doesn't mean he's a good defender. He give effort and plays hard (I'll give him that), I seemed to remember when he was put in position to guard anyone with a ounce of quickness he got exposed.

Agreed. Harden lit up Baker badly when they played. Same as Westbrook. Last yr offense was bad, hustled but same as any d leaguer. Over rated defensively. Contract given to him was ridiculous. Should have been paid about 1/2 , 3 yr contact and if anything a team option. I think Hornachek loves him and had something to do with the contract. Mills did this before Perry came on. Hopefully we won't see these bad contracts in the future.

How is this an argument that holds any water? Generally speaking, Harden and Westbrook can light up ANY defender on any given day. You just compared Baker's defense against 2 MVP candidates

Agreed Martin, its like Westbrook and harden didn't lit up 98% of there defenders. Ron is probably our best defender, also probably our highest bball IQ player. Ron is in the right place at the right time on both ends of the floor more then anyone else on the team. Ron makes his teammates better on both ends of the floor . Ron is one of the few players on the team that makes the game easy for the rest of his teammates .

Haters gonna hate Martin, we just know a great defender/team player when we see one... regardless of all the hate there is no denying he is a top defender in this league . If the haters bring up Westbrook,harden they obviously don't have much ground to stand on. It's not like Kawai or tony Allen don't get lit up by those players either...

So haters Ahhh try again.

So, because I think Baker is the end of the bench player now I'm a hater? Grow up. Top defender in the league? What r u smoking? So he should make one of the all defensive teams this yr? Want to place a bet on this? Top defenders in the league actually shut top offensive players down at least sometimes. Need more proof than some homer stating this.

Who is a top defender of the guard position?

Exactly baker is our top defensive guard that's not even debatable. After seeing what he did the end of the year and vs lowery how on earth can you call him a end of the bench player ? The guy is our ultimate glue player he makes everyone better and is always in the right spot at the right time. I think he is also the smartest basketball player on the team.

I don't think anybody is debating where he ranks on last year's knick team among the point guards. I think you could pull a poster from this forum and he/she would've be a better defender than Rose. So saying he was the Knick's best defender among the point guards isn't saying much.
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