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I might be in minority but I like Willy g
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GustavBahler
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11/1/2017  10:45 AM
technomaster wrote:Kind of hilarious, to be honest, that Kanter is being treated by this board as old, at the ripe old age of 25. :) Kanter is still a young improving player - he still has a few years before he reaches his prime. Willy isn't THAT much younger.

Willy Hernangomez was born in May 1994. Age 23.
Kanter was born in May 1992. Age 25.

Both of them should already have the foundation of what they're going to be - it's more likely that they'll refine their games a little, rather than make large scale improvements, as they mature into their primes.

At the moment, Kanter looks like a man; Willy (much like Marc Gasol did early in his career) still looks like his body is maturing and he's shedding some baby fat. So it's possible there's more to Willy. In the Pau vs Marc comparison, Marc didn't establish himself as a max-contract worthy player until his mid-late 20s.

For what it's worth, I don't think it was good (or is good for Willy or KP's development for two young bigs to be paired together on their team in Europe or here on the Knicks. Both need minutes and touches to develop, and having them in the same place is going to stunt at least 1 of their career potentials.

For illustration, Kanter's growth was in part held back early on by being with Favors & Gobert (not to mention Al Jefferson & Paul Millsap when he was a rookie). After Kanter's departure, Favors did not take the leap many were expecting, but Gobert has become one of the NBA's dominant defenders now that playing time has been sorted out. (yeah, of course Kanter's D was going to look lackluster vs 2 long, athletic beasts and he'd struggle to get mins with a defensive minded coach).

Of note, if we're making this into Kanter vs Willy:
Prior to the NBA draft (really, prior to signing to Kentucky), Kanter was scouted as a generational big man talent. Willy should have plenty of scouting (all eyes were on KP after all)... yet by many accounts is a bit of a late bloomer and ultimately was a 2nd round pick. It's a testament to Willy's work ethic that he's improved so much - I think this was in part due to Willy having a year to play for a season WITHOUT KP in Seville and getting the extra touches and minutes.

Good post, very informative.

AUTOADVERT
fishmike
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11/1/2017  11:31 AM
technomaster wrote:Kind of hilarious, to be honest, that Kanter is being treated by this board as old, at the ripe old age of 25. :) Kanter is still a young improving player - he still has a few years before he reaches his prime. Willy isn't THAT much younger.

Willy Hernangomez was born in May 1994. Age 23.
Kanter was born in May 1992. Age 25.

Both of them should already have the foundation of what they're going to be - it's more likely that they'll refine their games a little, rather than make large scale improvements, as they mature into their primes.

At the moment, Kanter looks like a man; Willy (much like Marc Gasol did early in his career) still looks like his body is maturing and he's shedding some baby fat. So it's possible there's more to Willy. In the Pau vs Marc comparison, Marc didn't establish himself as a max-contract worthy player until his mid-late 20s.

For what it's worth, I don't think it was good (or is good for Willy or KP's development for two young bigs to be paired together on their team in Europe or here on the Knicks. Both need minutes and touches to develop, and having them in the same place is going to stunt at least 1 of their career potentials.

For illustration, Kanter's growth was in part held back early on by being with Favors & Gobert (not to mention Al Jefferson & Paul Millsap when he was a rookie). After Kanter's departure, Favors did not take the leap many were expecting, but Gobert has become one of the NBA's dominant defenders now that playing time has been sorted out. (yeah, of course Kanter's D was going to look lackluster vs 2 long, athletic beasts and he'd struggle to get mins with a defensive minded coach).

Of note, if we're making this into Kanter vs Willy:
Prior to the NBA draft (really, prior to signing to Kentucky), Kanter was scouted as a generational big man talent. Willy should have plenty of scouting (all eyes were on KP after all)... yet by many accounts is a bit of a late bloomer and ultimately was a 2nd round pick. It's a testament to Willy's work ethic that he's improved so much - I think this was in part due to Willy having a year to play for a season WITHOUT KP in Seville and getting the extra touches and minutes.

3 years is huge, especially when considering the context and their experience. Kanter has a body of NBA work. Willy does not. Kanter's body of work shows that he will never be a rim protector or much of a shot contester, but he can clog the middle.

We are also seeing KP blossom at the 4. I never thought he should play the 5. So far he looks great playing next to a guy like Kant or KOQ. Billy averaged 16ppg and 14rebs per 36 minutes.

I still think the key to really moving this forward is finding high value for Kanter and KOQ.

fishmike - Making UltimateKnicks great again
LivingLegend
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11/1/2017  12:06 PM
BRIGGS wrote:Lets come back to this thread in 3 years.

PLEASE - give it up Briggs --- these are the type of posts where you lose a great deal of credibility --- even though I respect/love your Knick fandom.

The only case where Willy will be a better player 3 years down the road is if KP suffers MAJOR injury/injuries and I don't think that was the premise of your original post.

Your original post was basically saying KP is a ***** and Willy is better -- neither case if TRUE.

LivingLegend
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11/1/2017  12:14 PM
fishmike wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:willy is a finesse big man who avoids contact, doesnt shoot FTs well, and is MR softie in the paint...

Despite having decent post moves, he doesn't establish himself down there like Kanter, and kanter is a very good FT shooter and is a magnet when it comes to offensive bords

what are you talking about. I dont even start out trolling you but damn you write some stuff that is head scratching. Willy is very physical. There is nothing finesse about him. He's skilled... not to be confused with finesse. Willy is a beast on the boards and might set the best pick of any Knick big man. His screens are fantastic which is why I see him as a better long term fit than Kanter. Kanter is already a great rebounder and scorer in the post. Both are willing defenders although have limitations (more Kanter because of age). Willy is a much better passer. Willy is a bonafide ball mover. Kanter is a black hole but that is hardly a knock when your FG% is as high as Kanter.

Willy is finesse? Really?

I see Willy as finesse as well -- he beats people with footwork and pump fakes where Kanter takes it to the defenders body and is relentless.

Big thing people underrate with Kanter is that early returns on teaming Kanter/KP have resulted in KP looking like GODZINGIS and I think that bodes well for Kanter.

Key with Kanter is opposing coach must put a big on him or he will kill the mismatch. Once they do that it now leaves KP going against smaller PFs and in many cases switched mismatches which KP is killing now with his extra strength.

newyorker4ever
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11/1/2017  12:22 PM
LivingLegend wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:Lets come back to this thread in 3 years.

PLEASE - give it up Briggs --- these are the type of posts where you lose a great deal of credibility --- even though I respect/love your Knick fandom.

The only case where Willy will be a better player 3 years down the road is if KP suffers MAJOR injury/injuries and I don't think that was the premise of your original post.

Your original post was basically saying KP is a ***** and Willy is better -- neither case if TRUE.


I just wanna know if he still thinks Willy will be the better player in 3 years or 10 years?

fishmike
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11/1/2017  12:22 PM
LivingLegend wrote:
fishmike wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:willy is a finesse big man who avoids contact, doesnt shoot FTs well, and is MR softie in the paint...

Despite having decent post moves, he doesn't establish himself down there like Kanter, and kanter is a very good FT shooter and is a magnet when it comes to offensive bords

what are you talking about. I dont even start out trolling you but damn you write some stuff that is head scratching. Willy is very physical. There is nothing finesse about him. He's skilled... not to be confused with finesse. Willy is a beast on the boards and might set the best pick of any Knick big man. His screens are fantastic which is why I see him as a better long term fit than Kanter. Kanter is already a great rebounder and scorer in the post. Both are willing defenders although have limitations (more Kanter because of age). Willy is a much better passer. Willy is a bonafide ball mover. Kanter is a black hole but that is hardly a knock when your FG% is as high as Kanter.

Willy is finesse? Really?

I see Willy as finesse as well -- he beats people with footwork and pump fakes where Kanter takes it to the defenders body and is relentless.

Big thing people underrate with Kanter is that early returns on teaming Kanter/KP have resulted in KP looking like GODZINGIS and I think that bodes well for Kanter.

Key with Kanter is opposing coach must put a big on him or he will kill the mismatch. Once they do that it now leaves KP going against smaller PFs and in many cases switched mismatches which KP is killing now with his extra strength.

no... again that is skill. Willy never looks to avoid contact. Never. Dude is very physical. When Willy has KAnter's experience you will see him use his strength more, but Kanter is also older and stronger. Both players average about the same FTs per 36 mins. Willy is a bruiser. Finesse? Dont see it. Skill? Plenty. KP is a finesse player. Dont see that with Willy.
fishmike - Making UltimateKnicks great again
I might be in minority but I like Willy g

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