Article makes a ton of sense. Nice to read normal writing instead of Isola's angry inducing to the ignorant rants!

Melo
Frank
C. Lee for Kyrie and a contract Clev don't want. Maybe shump?

They want more "Win now" I can imagine. They will want more too. Araton says keep DOlan locked up.
I'd say they can chose between Frank or a top 5 protected pick next year.
Thats it. My real hope is nobody is that enamored with Kyrie in Knick Land.

Only deal in the nba I'd do is Josh jackson and additional picks for kp or nothing

Knickoftime wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

Vmart wrote:No way I give up Frank Ntlikina for Irving.

That's like trading gary Payton for Steve Francis

No deal w frank

Here's an idea.

Let's let ntilikina play a NBA minute before we start citing NBA players, much less defensive hall of famers, in analogies.

A lot of NY fans get allergic to sure things because they just not working in NY.
We need big expectations, we need miracles, we need underdogs, we need hope.
No matter if Irving is good enough or not (and he is) NY front office cannot give anything for him except of Melo and picks.
2 first rounders will be a huge gamble. One first and 1 second will be just fine.
But all this is just empty talk because Melo is not going to Clevland period.

Vmart wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

Vmart wrote:No way I give up Frank Ntlikina for Irving.

That's like trading gary Payton for Steve Francis

No deal w frank

Here's an idea.

Let's let ntilikina play a NBA minute before we start citing NBA players, much less defensive hall of famers, in analogies.

This is the mistakes made all the time with the Knicks. You have to learn from your mistakes Kyrie can walk in two years he eats cap space up. The Knicks don't need a Kyrie yet. Kyrie wants to be a Knicks so bad then he can come via free agency.

Ntlikina is going to a very good player. Who knows if he will be a HOF player but I'm against a Kyrie type move at this moment. I have seen enough of Kyrie to know to stay away.

This is the mistakes made all the time with Knicks fans.

You replied to a chain of comments in which no one suggested the mistake you believe the Knicks always make.

You said you won't give up FN for Irving. Briggs agreed, I simply replied can we hold off analogizing him to Payton and what you seemed to read was suggesting he be traded for Irving.

But it isn't there.

GustavBahler wrote:I can understand why some posters don't want to give up Frank because its a 2 year rental. But I havent seen enough of his game to feel as strongly as some seem to be about his potential. Its not about being flashy, its about skills.

Frank from what Ive read and heard, seems to be very driven. If he keeps working on his game, he might rank higher in those redrafts they have at the end of the season. If he isnt traded, I hope so.

The Detroit Lions, under the brutal Matt Millen era, drafted three WRs in the first round in three consecutive years. All busted. Charles Johnson and Big Mike Williams were pretty wide ranging busts too.

Then the Lions got the first overall pick in the next draft. The best consensus player and the best overall value to "market" was WR Calvin Johnson.

While many don't remember, there was real backlash out there, that the Lions should not draft another WR. It was just cursed.

The brave thing to do, the right thing to do, was to take the best player on the board. Which was Calvin Johnson. Who will likely end up in the NFL HOF.

Knicks fan have been so battered with idiot level trades and deals and signings, that of course they re in the same rut a Lions fans. Considering any change is better as long as it deviate from the previous regime, without factoring in the actual marketplace.

If no one has been paying attention, it's crickets when it come to NBA head coach firings this offseason. Very rare. The reactionary decision is to just can your coach and let him take the fall for the teams woes. But teams are starting to figure it out, you need some kind of stability to succeed in the NBA.

When you get battered enough, you just want something safe and low risk.

(How many teenager girls did any of you know who got married young and stupid just because they found a sucker Beta who could pay rent and get them out of their parents house? That mindset is really no different here)

If Irving was offered for Melo and FrankN, you take that deal. It's the correct MARKETPLACE decision. And that's what matters. Someone like nixluva will try to spin this the past doesn't matter at all, no that's idiotic too, the past doesn't matter IN THIS SPECIFIC CONTEXT. You can't make a decision here based off of the mistakes of a previous regime.

What people feel really doesn't matter. Just make the correct market based decision and that's it. If you do that, over time, odds are, good things are going to happen. Many people decry the market based perspective because they want a guaranteed result. It's like people here have never seen the movie Rocky. Rocky was not about actually winning the fight. That Rocky maximized his opportunities and made the correct "Decisions" means he won already. Even when he lost, he won.

There are no guarantees, there is only the pursuit of opportunity in the face of real adversity.

Making the correct market based decision is EASY. Acting on it absolutely even when you face backlash and criticism and risk your job, that's HARD.

It's this push/pull that gets guy like blkexec to say "Blame the fans"

And he's right to a certain degree, fan interest and the marketing aspect of the game matter

And he's wrong to a larger degree, only a tiny fraction of actual fandom speaks out, and only a smaller fraction of that do most of the public discussion/complaining/demanding.

But why worry about that little thing called math when you can spend the time justifying why a player needs to be a ball hog for the greater good of the entire universe?

Guy like Briggs, nixluva, EnySpree make up a vast majority of the posting here. Are they a reflection of everyone registered on UK? Are they a reflection of all Knicks fans everywhere. But if you just focus on three guys who have pretty much no idea of how the NBA marketplace operates, of course people will think all fans are rabid zombies.

If what you feel about the NBA has no bearing on how the current and actual NBA marketplace operates, then what you feel merits nothing. You have the right to feel how you wish, think how you wish, opinion as you wish, but as to the actual marketplace, it means literally zero.

meloshouldgo wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

Vmart wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

Vmart wrote:No way I give up Frank Ntlikina for Irving.

That's like trading gary Payton for Steve Francis

No deal w frank

Here's an idea.

Let's let ntilikina play a NBA minute before we start citing NBA players, much less defensive hall of famers, in analogies.

This is the mistakes made all the time with the Knicks. You have to learn from your mistakes Kyrie can walk in two years he eats cap space up. The Knicks don't need a Kyrie yet. Kyrie wants to be a Knicks so bad then he can come via free agency.

Ntlikina is going to a very good player. Who knows if he will be a HOF player but I'm against a Kyrie type move at this moment. I have seen enough of Kyrie to know to stay away.

This is the mistakes made all the time with Knicks fans.

You replied to a chain of comments in which no one suggested the mistake you believe the Knicks always make.

You said you won't give up FN for Irving. Briggs agreed, I simply replied can we hold off analogizing him to Payton and what you seemed to read was suggesting he be traded for Irving.

But it isn't there.

I think he was responding to the original idea on the thread. While I agree that Frank is an unknown, I also agree with Vmart that Kyrie is a known. We know enough about Kyrie - one dimensional, ball hogging no defense isolation scorer (sound familiar?).

Yes, very.

Kyrie Irving and Isiiah Thomas are very similar players.

Irving is the more frequent passer and rebounder and turns the ball over a little less. Irving is a little better defender. Thomas is a little more efficient and has a higher usage rate. Thomas found a new level in his 7th season, the season Irving will begin in October.

Irving is of course 3 years younger and 5 inches taller.

Now the Knicks roster is not the celtics by any means and that's a key factor, but a fair question to ask is did the celtics succeed because of or despite Thomas??

Knickoftime wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:The REALITY is we are NOT winning anything in the next two seasons--so why the FCK would I trade my lottery pick and or other picks?? Its completely asinine--same mistakes of Knicks past.

So why the FCK do you advocate holding onto melo?

24 hours ago you refused to answer a yes or no question as to if the Knicks were a postseason team.

You clearly think no, but in other contexts keep arguing the Knicks should play to win and not increase their lottery odds.

We have not won with Melo?

Knickoftime wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

Vmart wrote:No way I give up Frank Ntlikina for Irving.

That's like trading gary Payton for Steve Francis

No deal w frank

Here's an idea.

Let's let ntilikina play a NBA minute before we start citing NBA players, much less defensive hall of famers, in analogies.

Someone said better than Jason Kidd the other the day. Maybe Frank will be better than the 2 best PG's of their era but I didn't see anything close to the talent those guys had in college on his tape.