Welpee wrote:

Vmart wrote:

Welpee wrote:

Vmart wrote:

Welpee wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

Jrshoops wrote:This Get Kyrie Irving at all costs talk is ridiculous.

Youth - Check
Talented - Check
Defense - No

We finally have our first round picks again, and we need to rebuild through the draft and developing our own prospects first! Kyrie doesn't get us to a championship with KP and Hardaway! We need to see what we have with Ntilikina first, he has the ability with his desire and wingspan to be a GREAT defender and at 18, playing against professional players, had a well rounded offensive game.

We don't even know if KP can stay healthy for an entire season. We need more picks, not less! We have no ****in patience to ever do it the right way in ANY sport in New York, that's why we win way less than we should in all NY sports.

We had this great press conference with a great mantra of building and changing the culture. Kyrie will still only be 27 when his deal is up. If we show we are a player away then that is the time to get him and trade some picks.

Don't do it Knicks! Build from the bottom and finally change our culture. Long term success not a sugar rush!

As I said when Phil was relieved of his contract, "Welcome to hell."

Yeah, because it was heaven when Phil was here.

Philosophy is important when rebuilding following the path and sticking to it.

Yeah, stick to a philosophy that wasn't working and keep us sinking deeper into the hole we were
in.

What are you talking about. Cut the crap you know And I know it's important for any franchise to build up their youth. Trading away future assets for immediate gratification is absolutely the reason we are in the reason for where we are. We did it for a Melo trade and look what has been accomplished. You do the same for Kyrie and you just repeated the same mistake. Learn from mistakes.

Like I said I'll take Kyrie but only for Melo and O'Quin or Lee

Then why did Phil resign Melo, sign Lee and Noah and trade for Rose? That was his "youth movement?" How many "philosophies" did we have to endure from Phil before he got it right? He that was truly his plan he should've let Melo walk when he was a free agent. Phil's plan was he had no plan, at least not one that worked.

And can we cut the crap with these valuable "assets" we gave up for Melo. The two picks would've been nice but wouldn't have yielded a franchise player where we picked. And Gallo, W. Chandler, Mozgov and Felton have played in a grand total of zero all-star games collectively since being traded.

Two picks, Gallo, W. Chandler, Mozgov and Felton were assets.
No one knows what they will be converted to.
The point is that by getting to Knicks while stripping all assets out of the team Melo killed his and Knicks chances to ever play competitive ball during his contract.
And then he resigned doing same.
There was 0 chances he will ever win with Knicks and he did not. -60 regular season record and a couple of games win in playoffs in 7 years.
Talk about professional athlete live wasted by his own decisions.

On the other hand you gotta have allstars to win , Kyrie is def one of them. Is he a superstar? That's the real question.

arkrud wrote:

Welpee wrote:

Vmart wrote:

Welpee wrote:

Vmart wrote:

Welpee wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

Jrshoops wrote:This Get Kyrie Irving at all costs talk is ridiculous.

Youth - Check
Talented - Check
Defense - No

We finally have our first round picks again, and we need to rebuild through the draft and developing our own prospects first! Kyrie doesn't get us to a championship with KP and Hardaway! We need to see what we have with Ntilikina first, he has the ability with his desire and wingspan to be a GREAT defender and at 18, playing against professional players, had a well rounded offensive game.

We don't even know if KP can stay healthy for an entire season. We need more picks, not less! We have no ****in patience to ever do it the right way in ANY sport in New York, that's why we win way less than we should in all NY sports.

We had this great press conference with a great mantra of building and changing the culture. Kyrie will still only be 27 when his deal is up. If we show we are a player away then that is the time to get him and trade some picks.

Don't do it Knicks! Build from the bottom and finally change our culture. Long term success not a sugar rush!

As I said when Phil was relieved of his contract, "Welcome to hell."

Yeah, because it was heaven when Phil was here.

Philosophy is important when rebuilding following the path and sticking to it.

Yeah, stick to a philosophy that wasn't working and keep us sinking deeper into the hole we were
in.

What are you talking about. Cut the crap you know And I know it's important for any franchise to build up their youth. Trading away future assets for immediate gratification is absolutely the reason we are in the reason for where we are. We did it for a Melo trade and look what has been accomplished. You do the same for Kyrie and you just repeated the same mistake. Learn from mistakes.

Like I said I'll take Kyrie but only for Melo and O'Quin or Lee

Then why did Phil resign Melo, sign Lee and Noah and trade for Rose? That was his "youth movement?" How many "philosophies" did we have to endure from Phil before he got it right? He that was truly his plan he should've let Melo walk when he was a free agent. Phil's plan was he had no plan, at least not one that worked.

And can we cut the crap with these valuable "assets" we gave up for Melo. The two picks would've been nice but wouldn't have yielded a franchise player where we picked. And Gallo, W. Chandler, Mozgov and Felton have played in a grand total of zero all-star games collectively since being traded.

Two picks, Gallo, W. Chandler, Mozgov and Felton were assets.
No one knows what they will be converted to.
The point is that by getting to Knicks while stripping all assets out of the team Melo killed his and Knicks chances to ever play competitive ball during his contract.
And then he resigned doing same.
There was 0 chances he will ever win with Knicks and he did not. -60 regular season record and a couple of games win in playoffs in 7 years.
Talk about professional athlete live wasted by his own decisions.

Picks? We STILL talkin bout picks?
February 22, 2011: 2016 1st round draft pick (Jakob Poeltl was later selected) a 2015 2nd round draft pick (Richaun Holmes was later selected) a 2012 2nd round draft pick (Quincy Miller was later selected), a 2013 2nd round draft pick (Romero Osby was later selected), a 2014 1st round draft pick (Dario Saric was later selected) and a 2016 1st round draft pick (Jamal Murray was later selected)

Dario ended up turning into Willy for us while he's enjoying the Hinkie process's affect on his career; "How to live your NBA cellar life as trade bait for future picks".

All these other names are tearing up the league now, huh?

Knickoftime wrote:

Jrshoops wrote:This Get Kyrie Irving at all costs talk is ridiculous.

Youth - Check
Talented - Check
Defense - No

We finally have our first round picks again, and we need to rebuild through the draft and developing our own prospects first! Kyrie doesn't get us to a championship with KP and Hardaway! We need to see what we have with Ntilikina first, he has the ability with his desire and wingspan to be a GREAT defender and at 18, playing against professional players, had a well rounded offensive game.

We don't even know if KP can stay healthy for an entire season. We need more picks, not less! We have no ****in patience to ever do it the right way in ANY sport in New York, that's why we win way less than we should in all NY sports.

We had this great press conference with a great mantra of building and changing the culture. Kyrie will still only be 27 when his deal is up. If we show we are a player away then that is the time to get him and trade some picks.

Don't do it Knicks! Build from the bottom and finally change our culture. Long term success not a sugar rush!

This is not argument for or against Irving.

But Lebron James has played in the last 7 NBA Finals

He's faced:

Durant/Green/Curry/Thompson
Green/Curry/Thompson
Green/Curry/Thompson
Leonard/Duncan/Pop
Leonard/Duncan/Pop
Durant/Harden/Westbrook

The idea you can get to the Finals with a philosophy doesn't have much evidence to back it up.

Multiple veteran stars is the common denominator.

That may be realistically unattainable, and a ****tail of planning, random circumstance and luck, but it is what it is.

Lets go to it.

jrodmc wrote:

arkrud wrote:

Welpee wrote:

Vmart wrote:

Welpee wrote:

Vmart wrote:

Welpee wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

Jrshoops wrote:This Get Kyrie Irving at all costs talk is ridiculous.

Youth - Check
Talented - Check
Defense - No

We finally have our first round picks again, and we need to rebuild through the draft and developing our own prospects first! Kyrie doesn't get us to a championship with KP and Hardaway! We need to see what we have with Ntilikina first, he has the ability with his desire and wingspan to be a GREAT defender and at 18, playing against professional players, had a well rounded offensive game.

We don't even know if KP can stay healthy for an entire season. We need more picks, not less! We have no ****in patience to ever do it the right way in ANY sport in New York, that's why we win way less than we should in all NY sports.

We had this great press conference with a great mantra of building and changing the culture. Kyrie will still only be 27 when his deal is up. If we show we are a player away then that is the time to get him and trade some picks.

Don't do it Knicks! Build from the bottom and finally change our culture. Long term success not a sugar rush!

As I said when Phil was relieved of his contract, "Welcome to hell."

Yeah, because it was heaven when Phil was here.

Philosophy is important when rebuilding following the path and sticking to it.

Yeah, stick to a philosophy that wasn't working and keep us sinking deeper into the hole we were
in.

What are you talking about. Cut the crap you know And I know it's important for any franchise to build up their youth. Trading away future assets for immediate gratification is absolutely the reason we are in the reason for where we are. We did it for a Melo trade and look what has been accomplished. You do the same for Kyrie and you just repeated the same mistake. Learn from mistakes.

Like I said I'll take Kyrie but only for Melo and O'Quin or Lee

Then why did Phil resign Melo, sign Lee and Noah and trade for Rose? That was his "youth movement?" How many "philosophies" did we have to endure from Phil before he got it right? He that was truly his plan he should've let Melo walk when he was a free agent. Phil's plan was he had no plan, at least not one that worked.

And can we cut the crap with these valuable "assets" we gave up for Melo. The two picks would've been nice but wouldn't have yielded a franchise player where we picked. And Gallo, W. Chandler, Mozgov and Felton have played in a grand total of zero all-star games collectively since being traded.

Two picks, Gallo, W. Chandler, Mozgov and Felton were assets.
No one knows what they will be converted to.
The point is that by getting to Knicks while stripping all assets out of the team Melo killed his and Knicks chances to ever play competitive ball during his contract.
And then he resigned doing same.
There was 0 chances he will ever win with Knicks and he did not. -60 regular season record and a couple of games win in playoffs in 7 years.
Talk about professional athlete live wasted by his own decisions.

Assets... assets...
Can you really continually spout this putrid line of sheehit, year after year?
Gallo - injured more than he plays
Mayor - Now starting for your Shanghai Dragons...
Mozgov - Hey! He's been traded 15 times, but he got a ring!
Felton - newsflash, we got him back for next to nothing, which, as it turned out, was about what he was worth.

Picks? We STILL talkin bout picks?
February 22, 2011: 2016 1st round draft pick (Jakob Poeltl was later selected) a 2015 2nd round draft pick (Richaun Holmes was later selected) a 2012 2nd round draft pick (Quincy Miller was later selected), a 2013 2nd round draft pick (Romero Osby was later selected), a 2014 1st round draft pick (Dario Saric was later selected) and a 2016 1st round draft pick (Jamal Murray was later selected)

Dario ended up turning into Willy for us while he's enjoying the Hinkie process's affect on his career; "How to live your NBA cellar life as trade bait for future picks".

All these other names are tearing up the league now, huh?

Names are one thing, but how did the franchise fair with Melo? Denver won 57 games the year we won 54.
Since then both teams have floundered.
So its not like you can really boost in either direction.
But you try.

Nalod wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

arkrud wrote:

Welpee wrote:

Vmart wrote:

Welpee wrote:

Vmart wrote:

Welpee wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

Jrshoops wrote:This Get Kyrie Irving at all costs talk is ridiculous.

Youth - Check
Talented - Check
Defense - No

We finally have our first round picks again, and we need to rebuild through the draft and developing our own prospects first! Kyrie doesn't get us to a championship with KP and Hardaway! We need to see what we have with Ntilikina first, he has the ability with his desire and wingspan to be a GREAT defender and at 18, playing against professional players, had a well rounded offensive game.

We don't even know if KP can stay healthy for an entire season. We need more picks, not less! We have no ****in patience to ever do it the right way in ANY sport in New York, that's why we win way less than we should in all NY sports.

We had this great press conference with a great mantra of building and changing the culture. Kyrie will still only be 27 when his deal is up. If we show we are a player away then that is the time to get him and trade some picks.

Don't do it Knicks! Build from the bottom and finally change our culture. Long term success not a sugar rush!

As I said when Phil was relieved of his contract, "Welcome to hell."

Yeah, because it was heaven when Phil was here.

Philosophy is important when rebuilding following the path and sticking to it.

Yeah, stick to a philosophy that wasn't working and keep us sinking deeper into the hole we were
in.

What are you talking about. Cut the crap you know And I know it's important for any franchise to build up their youth. Trading away future assets for immediate gratification is absolutely the reason we are in the reason for where we are. We did it for a Melo trade and look what has been accomplished. You do the same for Kyrie and you just repeated the same mistake. Learn from mistakes.

Like I said I'll take Kyrie but only for Melo and O'Quin or Lee

Then why did Phil resign Melo, sign Lee and Noah and trade for Rose? That was his "youth movement?" How many "philosophies" did we have to endure from Phil before he got it right? He that was truly his plan he should've let Melo walk when he was a free agent. Phil's plan was he had no plan, at least not one that worked.

And can we cut the crap with these valuable "assets" we gave up for Melo. The two picks would've been nice but wouldn't have yielded a franchise player where we picked. And Gallo, W. Chandler, Mozgov and Felton have played in a grand total of zero all-star games collectively since being traded.

Two picks, Gallo, W. Chandler, Mozgov and Felton were assets.
No one knows what they will be converted to.
The point is that by getting to Knicks while stripping all assets out of the team Melo killed his and Knicks chances to ever play competitive ball during his contract.
And then he resigned doing same.
There was 0 chances he will ever win with Knicks and he did not. -60 regular season record and a couple of games win in playoffs in 7 years.
Talk about professional athlete live wasted by his own decisions.

Assets... assets...
Can you really continually spout this putrid line of sheehit, year after year?
Gallo - injured more than he plays
Mayor - Now starting for your Shanghai Dragons...
Mozgov - Hey! He's been traded 15 times, but he got a ring!
Felton - newsflash, we got him back for next to nothing, which, as it turned out, was about what he was worth.

Picks? We STILL talkin bout picks?
February 22, 2011: 2016 1st round draft pick (Jakob Poeltl was later selected) a 2015 2nd round draft pick (Richaun Holmes was later selected) a 2012 2nd round draft pick (Quincy Miller was later selected), a 2013 2nd round draft pick (Romero Osby was later selected), a 2014 1st round draft pick (Dario Saric was later selected) and a 2016 1st round draft pick (Jamal Murray was later selected)

Dario ended up turning into Willy for us while he's enjoying the Hinkie process's affect on his career; "How to live your NBA cellar life as trade bait for future picks".

All these other names are tearing up the league now, huh?

Names are one thing, but how did the franchise fair with Melo? Denver won 57 games the year we won 54.
Since then both teams have floundered.
So its not like you can really boost in either direction.
But you try.

What was Denver's record with Melo?
What was our record before Melo?
Answer me those and get back to me about boosts. And please spare me the pathetic "Amare, Pringles and the yoots were taking us to the promised land all by their lonesomes!"

It's okay. I've always understood that unrequited MoobyHate can be a very mellow thing.

jrodmc wrote:

Nalod wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

arkrud wrote:

Welpee wrote:

Vmart wrote:

Welpee wrote:

Vmart wrote:

Welpee wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

Jrshoops wrote:This Get Kyrie Irving at all costs talk is ridiculous.

Youth - Check
Talented - Check
Defense - No

We finally have our first round picks again, and we need to rebuild through the draft and developing our own prospects first! Kyrie doesn't get us to a championship with KP and Hardaway! We need to see what we have with Ntilikina first, he has the ability with his desire and wingspan to be a GREAT defender and at 18, playing against professional players, had a well rounded offensive game.

We don't even know if KP can stay healthy for an entire season. We need more picks, not less! We have no ****in patience to ever do it the right way in ANY sport in New York, that's why we win way less than we should in all NY sports.

We had this great press conference with a great mantra of building and changing the culture. Kyrie will still only be 27 when his deal is up. If we show we are a player away then that is the time to get him and trade some picks.

Don't do it Knicks! Build from the bottom and finally change our culture. Long term success not a sugar rush!

As I said when Phil was relieved of his contract, "Welcome to hell."

Yeah, because it was heaven when Phil was here.

Philosophy is important when rebuilding following the path and sticking to it.

Yeah, stick to a philosophy that wasn't working and keep us sinking deeper into the hole we were
in.

What are you talking about. Cut the crap you know And I know it's important for any franchise to build up their youth. Trading away future assets for immediate gratification is absolutely the reason we are in the reason for where we are. We did it for a Melo trade and look what has been accomplished. You do the same for Kyrie and you just repeated the same mistake. Learn from mistakes.

Like I said I'll take Kyrie but only for Melo and O'Quin or Lee

Then why did Phil resign Melo, sign Lee and Noah and trade for Rose? That was his "youth movement?" How many "philosophies" did we have to endure from Phil before he got it right? He that was truly his plan he should've let Melo walk when he was a free agent. Phil's plan was he had no plan, at least not one that worked.

And can we cut the crap with these valuable "assets" we gave up for Melo. The two picks would've been nice but wouldn't have yielded a franchise player where we picked. And Gallo, W. Chandler, Mozgov and Felton have played in a grand total of zero all-star games collectively since being traded.

Two picks, Gallo, W. Chandler, Mozgov and Felton were assets.
No one knows what they will be converted to.
The point is that by getting to Knicks while stripping all assets out of the team Melo killed his and Knicks chances to ever play competitive ball during his contract.
And then he resigned doing same.
There was 0 chances he will ever win with Knicks and he did not. -60 regular season record and a couple of games win in playoffs in 7 years.
Talk about professional athlete live wasted by his own decisions.

Assets... assets...
Can you really continually spout this putrid line of sheehit, year after year?
Gallo - injured more than he plays
Mayor - Now starting for your Shanghai Dragons...
Mozgov - Hey! He's been traded 15 times, but he got a ring!
Felton - newsflash, we got him back for next to nothing, which, as it turned out, was about what he was worth.

Picks? We STILL talkin bout picks?
February 22, 2011: 2016 1st round draft pick (Jakob Poeltl was later selected) a 2015 2nd round draft pick (Richaun Holmes was later selected) a 2012 2nd round draft pick (Quincy Miller was later selected), a 2013 2nd round draft pick (Romero Osby was later selected), a 2014 1st round draft pick (Dario Saric was later selected) and a 2016 1st round draft pick (Jamal Murray was later selected)

Dario ended up turning into Willy for us while he's enjoying the Hinkie process's affect on his career; "How to live your NBA cellar life as trade bait for future picks".

All these other names are tearing up the league now, huh?

Names are one thing, but how did the franchise fair with Melo? Denver won 57 games the year we won 54.
Since then both teams have floundered.
So its not like you can really boost in either direction.
But you try.

Little difference you always manage to overlook, Mr. Centrist.

What was Denver's record with Melo?
What was our record before Melo?
Answer me those and get back to me about boosts. And please spare me the pathetic "Amare, Pringles and the yoots were taking us to the promised land all by their lonesomes!"

It's okay. I've always understood that unrequited MoobyHate can be a very mellow thing.

Yes, label me, what ever.
Your questions really cannot be answered with any accuracy because the simple fact is there are no two scenarios that one can compare. Denver had a different roster than Knicks before and after the trade.
So why go there.
There is no hate, its just a simple fact that his tenure here mostly failed and for the 100th time, I don't blame him. The dynamics of the knick teams in his tenure did not add up. The 54 win team was an old unsustainable roster. He was great BTW!!! Denver won 57 games that year. They were great!!!

IN the end both teams failed. Key word here is "TEAMS". Statiscially Melo did just fine. Statistically he lived up to his contract and was mostly healthy.
I have no fault with him.
Is it possible if we never Signed AMare and never did that trade the history of the knicks would replicate Denvers? I doubt it. We might have made other deals and not commited to Danillo and the Mayor.
There is so many other possibilities we could have gone it. But we didn't.

Thus, Melo was Melo (all star diva before and after trade), but the real question is not how did the others in the trade do, its how did the knicks do?
That's all that matters.

It's not as cut and dry as "how does Kyrie make the team better." Getting him is a power play to keep our franchise player.

Make the move.

fwk00 wrote:Look, if you can secure Irving for Melo, Kuz, and say Dotson or or Randle, you do it and they do it. They get Melo and some youthful pieces who aren't too shabby. Knicks stay intact mostly and add the veteran point who brings Nitty along.

If not, no deal.

No trading picks or any of that nonsense.

Do we need Irving because its the last opportunity in the world? No.

Irving is a better asset than MELO (just based on age and position). I'd be willing to give up one future protected-to-3 first rounder to make this trade happeb, even if we don't plan to retain him long term. He's got value as an asset, better than Melo.