Allanfan20 wrote:The pieces Denver got were all worse than Melo. With that said, maybe if we showed a little patience, we could have kept those pieces then sign Melo over the Summer.

As always, no. The salary cap would have prevented that.

Those picks could have all been used in a better trade than Melo.

Pick.

ekstarks94 wrote:

Allanfan20 wrote:The pieces Denver got were all worse than Melo. With that said, maybe if we showed a little patience, we could have kept those pieces then sign Melo over the Summer. If Melo was that desperate to come here, he could have done it. Instead, we let him and Denver force our hamds because we had no sense of business. Those picks could have all been used in a better trade than Melo. The Melo era led the team to 2 coaches getting fired and a second round exit. It's not necessarily his fault but because of his game and contract, we had zero chance to build a team around him.

Sage post

Sage and inaccurate.

ekstarks94 wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

Allanfan20 wrote:The pieces Denver got were all worse than Melo. With that said, maybe if we showed a little patience, we could have kept those pieces then sign Melo over the Summer.

As always, no. The salary cap would have prevented that.

Those picks could have all been used in a better trade than Melo.

Pick.

Assets = opportunity...so u can't say with any certainty what we could or could have not done....moves could have been made with young players

Also it was picks....plural.....we gave them the right to swap also...I believe we ended up trading that pick to Tor.

You wrote "The pieces Denver got were all worse than Melo. With that said, maybe if we showed a little patience, we could have KEPT THOSE PIECES then sign Melo over the Summer."

What you wrote was impossible.

Knickoftime wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

Allanfan20 wrote:The pieces Denver got were all worse than Melo. With that said, maybe if we showed a little patience, we could have kept those pieces then sign Melo over the Summer.

As always, no. The salary cap would have prevented that.

Those picks could have all been used in a better trade than Melo.

Pick.

I believe we traded 4 picks and got 1 pick back. We outright traded 1 1st round pick and 2 2nd round picks and we swapped our higher for their lower 1st round pick in one season. That's my understanding from this.
http://www.nba.com/knicks/news/carmeloanthonyacquired.html

Yes, second rounders. The scratch-off tickets of professional sports.

Knickoftime wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

Allanfan20 wrote:The pieces Denver got were all worse than Melo. With that said, maybe if we showed a little patience, we could have kept those pieces then sign Melo over the Summer.

As always, no. The salary cap would have prevented that.

Those picks could have all been used in a better trade than Melo.

Pick.

I believe we traded 4 picks and got 1 pick back. We outright traded 1 1st round pick and 2 2nd round picks and we swapped our higher for their lower 1st round pick in one season. That's my understanding from this.
http://www.nba.com/knicks/news/carmeloanthonyacquired.html

Yes, second rounders. The scratch-off tickets of professional sports.

We also traded 2 first rounders (and got one lower one back). So even if you don't count 2nd rounders and are happy to give them away, his use of picks (plural) is still correct. He didn't say a net change of 2 picks. He just said we gave them 2 picks. He was describing what we gave them not what we got back.

I wrote "yes" in reply.

CrushAlot wrote:Rosen article on Kyrie to the Knicks.
https://www.fanragsports.com/nba/knicks/rosen-kyrie-irving-fit-knicks/

Break it down. A player that was leaving at the end of the season got them the following:

3 starters all having career years two of which were young
Felton - 17pts 9ass
Chandler - 16.4pts
Danillo - 15.9pts

Mosgov - got two first round picks from Cleveland

Draft picks - Resulted in Murray and Gary Harris

That's as lopsided a trade as we have seen in a long time. Felton was also traded for Andre Miller.

And the Knicks turn Melo into what?
Just like they turned Robin Lopez into Noah.

We haven't made a good trade since Sprewell.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbssports.com/nba/news/report-lebron-james-is-still-recruiting-for-the-cavs-but-they-cant-reach-kyrie-irving/amp/

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/20149584/does-kyrie-irving-kobe-bryant-lebron-james-problem-nba

Irving's stat line has superstar written all over it. In 2016-17 -- his age-24 season -- Irving scored a career-high 25.2 points per game, while sharing the ball with James and Kevin Love. To put his scoring ability in perspective, when James went to the bench last season, Irving's scoring average per 36 minutes soared from 23.2 points to a staggering 35.2 points. Irving can get buckets.

But he is not James Harden or Russell Westbrook. Irving hasn't shown the ability to consistently set up his teammates like this year's MVP and runner-up. In the past three seasons, Irving has spent exactly 2,000 minutes on the floor without James, which amounts to basically a full season of action. During that time, Irving has averaged 30.6 points, 6.3 assists and 3.3 turnovers per 36 minutes. For perspective, Isaiah Thomas last season put up a nearly identical line: 30.8 points, 6.3 assists and 2.9 turnovers per 36 minutes.

As a player, Thomas and Damian Lillard are probably the best comps for Irving, who has struggled to win as the guy. In the 17 games that James has sat the past three seasons with Irving starting, the Cavs' record is a woeful 4-13 (.235). Keep in mind, Love shared the floor with Irving in all but two of those games, so it wasn't like Irving was going at it alone out there. To put that win-loss record in perspective, it is actually lower than the Cavs' win percentage in three seasons with Irving running the show pre-James (.339). Yikes.

That doesn't bode well for Irving. And it looks worse if you turn the tables. When James played without Irving the past three seasons, the Cavs went 25-11 (.694). With Irving off the court and James on the court, the LeBron-led Cavs outscored opponents by 585 points in 3,074 minutes, or plus-9.1 per 48 minutes -- a point margin that would have been good for second in the NBA behind the Golden State Warriors last season.

Let's flip that. With Irving on the court and James off the court, the Irving-led Cavs have been outscored by 94 points in 2,000 minutes, or minus-1.7 per 48 minutes -- a point margin roughly on pace with a New Orleans Pelicans team that finished 14 games under .500 last season. Not good.

What's clear is that when it came to winning basketball games, Irving needed James more than James needed Irving. That dynamic speaks to Irving's one-dimensional game, where he's superb in one-on-one situations but struggles in other areas. As ESPN's Kevin Pelton pointed out, Irving ranks 12th among point guards in real plus-minus, thanks to a defensive RPM that places him 440th among all players on that end of the floor. With defense bogging him down, Irving didn't register in the top 50 overall in RPM last season, nor did he in 2015-16 or 2013-14 (but he finished 38th in 2014-15, before his knee injury).

All-Star ballots, Team USA officials and Nike execs are unanimous: Kyrie Irving is a superstar. But the on-court numbers don't agree. As the No. 1 option on the team, Irving's record in the NBA is 132-247 (.348), or the equivalent of a 29-win team.

To be fair, Irving's sorry record without James the past few seasons has been on a shooter-heavy roster that has largely been geared toward James' talents. Though being surrounded by sharpshooters like Love, JR Smith and Kyle Korver would seemingly help space the floor for Irving's dribble-heavy game, it hasn't delivered winning results, unless James is out there. The Cavs scored a paltry 103.1 points per 100 possessions with Irving on the floor and no James last season, down from 117.5 with James and Irving both on the court.

If Irving's talents are on the offensive end, why can't his team score when he's the No.1 option? Will that change on a different team?