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Off Topic: six months later, do people who voted for Trump still support this guy?
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GustavBahler
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11/5/2017  9:39 AM
With Trump in Asia in part about North Korea. Thought Id share this testimony on Capitol Hill. Its about the dangers of a North Korean EMP attack on the US, and the North Koreans work on developing this capability. Interesting stuff, if not disquieting.

The article I also linked, is skeptical of the threat, and makes a case that it may be overhyped. The 90 percent figure seems over the top, and poorly sourced, but I would read testimony from this October (below). The lengths NK is allegedly going, to perfect this weapon. Including bringing in experts in the field from other countries.

https://www.wired.com/story/north-korea-emp-threat/


Congressional Testimony:

http://docs.house.gov/meetings/HM/HM09/20171012/106467/HHRG-115-HM09-Wstate-PryP-20171012.pdf

AUTOADVERT
martin
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11/5/2017  11:34 AM
izybx wrote:
martin wrote:
izybx wrote:
martin wrote:
izybx wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
izybx wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
izybx wrote:
nixluva wrote:
martin wrote:

Man! This stuff is getting pretty darned close. This is only a small piece of the picture Mueller is putting together.

Timeline:

Why did they only charge him with false statement? All this puff and no actual crime?

Maybe that was the deal. Plead to a lesser charge in exchange for information, maybe wearing a wire.

Or maybe no actual law was broken until he lied to investigators. Why don't any of these charges have anything to do with Russian collusion. Maybe they are forthcoming, or maybe...

If no laws were actually broken? Why lie? Why plead guilty?

With papadapolous the only law that was broken was lying to investigators. are you insuating he did something illegal besides that? And with manafourt, what did he do that was related to "collusion". Or are we not investigating that anymore?

isn't your background law enforcement? The the questions you are asking seem to come from point of naivete in that area

I guess I'm not smart enough to see how these charges have anything to do with collusion

You are not smart enough to understand that not all criminals just video or tape record themselves committing a crime and just leave that stuff laying around? Not smart enough to know that you piece together evidence and not immediately share what you have collected with the public? Do you think that these cases are fairly straight forward and should be done within weeks?

I feel like that's the stance you are taking. That unless prosecutors share exactly there steps and evidence that have and are trying to collect, that we should just drop the whole thing or ignore it or state that it unequivocally can't happen unless Mueller is somehow communicating everything his team has on a regular basis.

I mean, is this your understanding of how police and prosecutors build (complex) cases?

I understand that you feel these charges, which have nothing to do with what people were going crazy about months ago (trump colluding with Russia), are a stepping stone to something else. I think time will tell if that happens, or if we have a special counsel that will be bringing forth allegations financial indiscretions that have nothing to do with Russia. Time will show whose right, and the truth is neither of us know any more than anyone else about this. All we we have to look at are these indictments, charges which to me speak to the lack of any evidence of collusion.

I've seen conspiracy cases where a person is charged and kept on as a cooperator, but once the charges are unsealed (at least for drug/gang cases) the case is wrapping up. So does that apply here? Probably not, but like I said, I think it speaks volumes about what direction this investigation is going.

And to be fair, I am talking a skeptical stance, but liberals are taking the stance of guilty till proven innocent. So let's not act as if we either of us don't have our own agendas

Again, as someone who has background in law enforcement and how those wheels turn, that is an utterly naive approach to take.

I am sitting back and watching things unfold quite poorly for everyone in this current administration.

Official sponsor of the PURE KNICKS LOVE Program
nixluva
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11/5/2017  12:49 PM
Trump and McConnell quietly going nuts with court appointments. Crazy how much they blocked Obama’s.

martin
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11/5/2017  2:11 PM
for your perusal, haven't really read and don't understand the full veracity:

https://www.icij.org/investigations/paradise-papers/

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nixluva
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11/5/2017  3:11 PM
Knickoftime
Posts: 23204
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11/5/2017  3:13 PM
izybx wrote:
nixluva wrote:
izybx wrote:
martin wrote:
izybx wrote:
martin wrote:
izybx wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
izybx wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
izybx wrote:
nixluva wrote:
martin wrote:

Man! This stuff is getting pretty darned close. This is only a small piece of the picture Mueller is putting together.

Timeline:

Why did they only charge him with false statement? All this puff and no actual crime?

Maybe that was the deal. Plead to a lesser charge in exchange for information, maybe wearing a wire.

Or maybe no actual law was broken until he lied to investigators. Why don't any of these charges have anything to do with Russian collusion. Maybe they are forthcoming, or maybe...

If no laws were actually broken? Why lie? Why plead guilty?

With papadapolous the only law that was broken was lying to investigators. are you insuating he did something illegal besides that? And with manafourt, what did he do that was related to "collusion". Or are we not investigating that anymore?

isn't your background law enforcement? The the questions you are asking seem to come from point of naivete in that area

I guess I'm not smart enough to see how these charges have anything to do with collusion

You are not smart enough to understand that not all criminals just video or tape record themselves committing a crime and just leave that stuff laying around? Not smart enough to know that you piece together evidence and not immediately share what you have collected with the public? Do you think that these cases are fairly straight forward and should be done within weeks?

I feel like that's the stance you are taking. That unless prosecutors share exactly there steps and evidence that have and are trying to collect, that we should just drop the whole thing or ignore it or state that it unequivocally can't happen unless Mueller is somehow communicating everything his team has on a regular basis.

I mean, is this your understanding of how police and prosecutors build (complex) cases?

I understand that you feel these charges, which have nothing to do with what people were going crazy about months ago (trump colluding with Russia), are a stepping stone to something else. I think time will tell if that happens, or if we have a special counsel that will be bringing forth allegations financial indiscretions that have nothing to do with Russia. Time will show whose right, and the truth is neither of us know any more than anyone else about this. All we we have to look at are these indictments, charges which to me speak to the lack of any evidence of collusion.

I've seen conspiracy cases where a person is charged and kept on as a cooperator, but once the charges are unsealed (at least for drug/gang cases) the case is wrapping up. So does that apply here? Probably not, but like I said, I think it speaks volumes about what direction this investigation is going.

And to be fair, I am talking a skeptical stance, but liberals are taking the stance of guilty till proven innocent. So let's not act as if we either of us don't have our own agendas

This is about not only Collusion with Russians to win the Election but now it’s also about Obstruction of Justice. Trump and his actions plus the lies of all his people. Are you just gonna ignore all the people caught lying?

Once Trump fired Comey he brought all of this investigation even harder on himself and his cronies. I have to say you seem particularly unbothered by all the corrupt crap Trump and his people have been up to. This is just getting worse as they interview each of Trump’s people and they fold under the pressure and admit their lies!!!

It doesn’t take Sherlock Holmes 🕵️ to see where this is headed. Mueller is stripping the BARK off of Trump’s Ass!!!

I guess it's predictable that now that it's becoming readily apprarent that there is no collusion that now people are moving into "obstruction". Good luck with that! Will you at least admit that is possible that all the hoopla about Russia was false?
Nix, I'm about as bothered by trumps obstruction as you are about hillarys uranium deal/dossier funding.



Given your admission of bias a few posts back isn't this entire graph ultimately pointless?

A less bias, more self aware person might ask themselves if they acknowledge obstruction seems to have taken place, what is the purpose of the obstruction?

Now, as stated pages ago I'm waiting for the completion of the investigation to conclude or even guess at anything and acknowledge it's possible no 'collusion' will be found. But reading the tealeaves as you acknowledged previously is an exercise in confirmation bias.

Looks like you somehow forgot.

nixluva
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11/5/2017  3:25 PM
nixluva
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11/5/2017  3:53 PM
nixluva
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11/5/2017  3:57 PM
nixluva
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11/5/2017  4:44 PM
izybx
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11/5/2017  4:59 PM
Knickoftime wrote:
izybx wrote:
nixluva wrote:
izybx wrote:
martin wrote:
izybx wrote:
martin wrote:
izybx wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
izybx wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
izybx wrote:
nixluva wrote:
martin wrote:

Man! This stuff is getting pretty darned close. This is only a small piece of the picture Mueller is putting together.

Timeline:

Why did they only charge him with false statement? All this puff and no actual crime?

Maybe that was the deal. Plead to a lesser charge in exchange for information, maybe wearing a wire.

Or maybe no actual law was broken until he lied to investigators. Why don't any of these charges have anything to do with Russian collusion. Maybe they are forthcoming, or maybe...

If no laws were actually broken? Why lie? Why plead guilty?

With papadapolous the only law that was broken was lying to investigators. are you insuating he did something illegal besides that? And with manafourt, what did he do that was related to "collusion". Or are we not investigating that anymore?

isn't your background law enforcement? The the questions you are asking seem to come from point of naivete in that area

I guess I'm not smart enough to see how these charges have anything to do with collusion

You are not smart enough to understand that not all criminals just video or tape record themselves committing a crime and just leave that stuff laying around? Not smart enough to know that you piece together evidence and not immediately share what you have collected with the public? Do you think that these cases are fairly straight forward and should be done within weeks?

I feel like that's the stance you are taking. That unless prosecutors share exactly there steps and evidence that have and are trying to collect, that we should just drop the whole thing or ignore it or state that it unequivocally can't happen unless Mueller is somehow communicating everything his team has on a regular basis.

I mean, is this your understanding of how police and prosecutors build (complex) cases?

I understand that you feel these charges, which have nothing to do with what people were going crazy about months ago (trump colluding with Russia), are a stepping stone to something else. I think time will tell if that happens, or if we have a special counsel that will be bringing forth allegations financial indiscretions that have nothing to do with Russia. Time will show whose right, and the truth is neither of us know any more than anyone else about this. All we we have to look at are these indictments, charges which to me speak to the lack of any evidence of collusion.

I've seen conspiracy cases where a person is charged and kept on as a cooperator, but once the charges are unsealed (at least for drug/gang cases) the case is wrapping up. So does that apply here? Probably not, but like I said, I think it speaks volumes about what direction this investigation is going.

And to be fair, I am talking a skeptical stance, but liberals are taking the stance of guilty till proven innocent. So let's not act as if we either of us don't have our own agendas

This is about not only Collusion with Russians to win the Election but now it’s also about Obstruction of Justice. Trump and his actions plus the lies of all his people. Are you just gonna ignore all the people caught lying?

Once Trump fired Comey he brought all of this investigation even harder on himself and his cronies. I have to say you seem particularly unbothered by all the corrupt crap Trump and his people have been up to. This is just getting worse as they interview each of Trump’s people and they fold under the pressure and admit their lies!!!

It doesn’t take Sherlock Holmes 🕵️ to see where this is headed. Mueller is stripping the BARK off of Trump’s Ass!!!

I guess it's predictable that now that it's becoming readily apprarent that there is no collusion that now people are moving into "obstruction". Good luck with that! Will you at least admit that is possible that all the hoopla about Russia was false?
Nix, I'm about as bothered by trumps obstruction as you are about hillarys uranium deal/dossier funding.



Given your admission of bias a few posts back isn't this entire graph ultimately pointless?

A less bias, more self aware person might ask themselves if they acknowledge obstruction seems to have taken place, what is the purpose of the obstruction?

Now, as stated pages ago I'm waiting for the completion of the investigation to conclude or even guess at anything and acknowledge it's possible no 'collusion' will be found. But reading the tealeaves as you acknowledged previously is an exercise in confirmation bias.

Looks like you somehow forgot.

Nix, are you honestly telling me you are unbiased in this regard? Like you are truly objective and are just sitting and waiting for the facts?

Interesting to hear you speak of confirmation bias :)

How do you feel about Feinstein saying today that she still hadn't seen any evidence of collusion? Is that pertinent or just my confirmation bias at work...

Beat the Evil Empire. BEAT MIAMI
izybx
Posts: 22355
Alba Posts: 2
Joined: 10/16/2006
Member: #1178
USA
11/5/2017  5:02 PM
martin wrote:
izybx wrote:
martin wrote:
izybx wrote:
martin wrote:
izybx wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
izybx wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
izybx wrote:
nixluva wrote:
martin wrote:

Man! This stuff is getting pretty darned close. This is only a small piece of the picture Mueller is putting together.

Timeline:

Why did they only charge him with false statement? All this puff and no actual crime?

Maybe that was the deal. Plead to a lesser charge in exchange for information, maybe wearing a wire.

Or maybe no actual law was broken until he lied to investigators. Why don't any of these charges have anything to do with Russian collusion. Maybe they are forthcoming, or maybe...

If no laws were actually broken? Why lie? Why plead guilty?

With papadapolous the only law that was broken was lying to investigators. are you insuating he did something illegal besides that? And with manafourt, what did he do that was related to "collusion". Or are we not investigating that anymore?

isn't your background law enforcement? The the questions you are asking seem to come from point of naivete in that area

I guess I'm not smart enough to see how these charges have anything to do with collusion

You are not smart enough to understand that not all criminals just video or tape record themselves committing a crime and just leave that stuff laying around? Not smart enough to know that you piece together evidence and not immediately share what you have collected with the public? Do you think that these cases are fairly straight forward and should be done within weeks?

I feel like that's the stance you are taking. That unless prosecutors share exactly there steps and evidence that have and are trying to collect, that we should just drop the whole thing or ignore it or state that it unequivocally can't happen unless Mueller is somehow communicating everything his team has on a regular basis.

I mean, is this your understanding of how police and prosecutors build (complex) cases?

I understand that you feel these charges, which have nothing to do with what people were going crazy about months ago (trump colluding with Russia), are a stepping stone to something else. I think time will tell if that happens, or if we have a special counsel that will be bringing forth allegations financial indiscretions that have nothing to do with Russia. Time will show whose right, and the truth is neither of us know any more than anyone else about this. All we we have to look at are these indictments, charges which to me speak to the lack of any evidence of collusion.

I've seen conspiracy cases where a person is charged and kept on as a cooperator, but once the charges are unsealed (at least for drug/gang cases) the case is wrapping up. So does that apply here? Probably not, but like I said, I think it speaks volumes about what direction this investigation is going.

And to be fair, I am talking a skeptical stance, but liberals are taking the stance of guilty till proven innocent. So let's not act as if we either of us don't have our own agendas

Again, as someone who has background in law enforcement and how those wheels turn, that is an utterly naive approach to take.

I am sitting back and watching things unfold quite poorly for everyone in this current administration.

Well martin, as someone with a background in working in conspiracy cases and experience in establishing and proving probable cause, I respectfully disagree.

Beat the Evil Empire. BEAT MIAMI
nixluva
Posts: 55249
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Joined: 10/5/2004
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USA
11/5/2017  5:11 PM
nixluva
Posts: 55249
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 10/5/2004
Member: #758
USA
11/5/2017  5:20 PM
izybx wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
izybx wrote:
nixluva wrote:
izybx wrote:
martin wrote:
izybx wrote:
martin wrote:
izybx wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
izybx wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
izybx wrote:
nixluva wrote:
martin wrote:

Man! This stuff is getting pretty darned close. This is only a small piece of the picture Mueller is putting together.

Timeline:

Why did they only charge him with false statement? All this puff and no actual crime?

Maybe that was the deal. Plead to a lesser charge in exchange for information, maybe wearing a wire.

Or maybe no actual law was broken until he lied to investigators. Why don't any of these charges have anything to do with Russian collusion. Maybe they are forthcoming, or maybe...

If no laws were actually broken? Why lie? Why plead guilty?

With papadapolous the only law that was broken was lying to investigators. are you insuating he did something illegal besides that? And with manafourt, what did he do that was related to "collusion". Or are we not investigating that anymore?

isn't your background law enforcement? The the questions you are asking seem to come from point of naivete in that area

I guess I'm not smart enough to see how these charges have anything to do with collusion

You are not smart enough to understand that not all criminals just video or tape record themselves committing a crime and just leave that stuff laying around? Not smart enough to know that you piece together evidence and not immediately share what you have collected with the public? Do you think that these cases are fairly straight forward and should be done within weeks?

I feel like that's the stance you are taking. That unless prosecutors share exactly there steps and evidence that have and are trying to collect, that we should just drop the whole thing or ignore it or state that it unequivocally can't happen unless Mueller is somehow communicating everything his team has on a regular basis.

I mean, is this your understanding of how police and prosecutors build (complex) cases?

I understand that you feel these charges, which have nothing to do with what people were going crazy about months ago (trump colluding with Russia), are a stepping stone to something else. I think time will tell if that happens, or if we have a special counsel that will be bringing forth allegations financial indiscretions that have nothing to do with Russia. Time will show whose right, and the truth is neither of us know any more than anyone else about this. All we we have to look at are these indictments, charges which to me speak to the lack of any evidence of collusion.

I've seen conspiracy cases where a person is charged and kept on as a cooperator, but once the charges are unsealed (at least for drug/gang cases) the case is wrapping up. So does that apply here? Probably not, but like I said, I think it speaks volumes about what direction this investigation is going.

And to be fair, I am talking a skeptical stance, but liberals are taking the stance of guilty till proven innocent. So let's not act as if we either of us don't have our own agendas

This is about not only Collusion with Russians to win the Election but now it’s also about Obstruction of Justice. Trump and his actions plus the lies of all his people. Are you just gonna ignore all the people caught lying?

Once Trump fired Comey he brought all of this investigation even harder on himself and his cronies. I have to say you seem particularly unbothered by all the corrupt crap Trump and his people have been up to. This is just getting worse as they interview each of Trump’s people and they fold under the pressure and admit their lies!!!

It doesn’t take Sherlock Holmes 🕵️ to see where this is headed. Mueller is stripping the BARK off of Trump’s Ass!!!

I guess it's predictable that now that it's becoming readily apprarent that there is no collusion that now people are moving into "obstruction". Good luck with that! Will you at least admit that is possible that all the hoopla about Russia was false?
Nix, I'm about as bothered by trumps obstruction as you are about hillarys uranium deal/dossier funding.



Given your admission of bias a few posts back isn't this entire graph ultimately pointless?

A less bias, more self aware person might ask themselves if they acknowledge obstruction seems to have taken place, what is the purpose of the obstruction?

Now, as stated pages ago I'm waiting for the completion of the investigation to conclude or even guess at anything and acknowledge it's possible no 'collusion' will be found. But reading the tealeaves as you acknowledged previously is an exercise in confirmation bias.

Looks like you somehow forgot.

Nix, are you honestly telling me you are unbiased in this regard? Like you are truly objective and are just sitting and waiting for the facts?

Interesting to hear you speak of confirmation bias :)

How do you feel about Feinstein saying today that she still hadn't seen any evidence of collusion? Is that pertinent or just my confirmation bias at work...

Never said I was unbiased. I openly state my HATE for Trump and Republican Policy. Dems have many issues as well. The difference is most of Dems and Progressive policies are to the BENEFIT of the Majority of Americans.

Congress is hampered by REPUBLICANS! Rep. Nunes has to recuse himself and still keeps interfering. The Bilateral investigations are pretty much DEAD because Repubs aren’t really trying to get to the TRUTH.

MUELLER is getting to the bottom of these scandals and for whatever reason you’re choosing to ignore the MASSIVE mounting evidence that Trump and his cronies colluded and where compromised by financial entanglements. How the hell are you not seeing this. This thread alone is packed with evidence. It just keeps coming every day!!!

nixluva
Posts: 55249
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Member: #758
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11/5/2017  5:44 PM
nixluva
Posts: 55249
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 10/5/2004
Member: #758
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11/5/2017  6:09 PM
izybx
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Member: #1178
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11/5/2017  6:47 PM    LAST EDITED: 11/5/2017  7:36 PM
nixluva wrote:
izybx wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
izybx wrote:
nixluva wrote:
izybx wrote:
martin wrote:
izybx wrote:
martin wrote:
izybx wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
izybx wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
izybx wrote:
nixluva wrote:
martin wrote:

Man! This stuff is getting pretty darned close. This is only a small piece of the picture Mueller is putting together.

Timeline:

Why did they only charge him with false statement? All this puff and no actual crime?

Maybe that was the deal. Plead to a lesser charge in exchange for information, maybe wearing a wire.

Or maybe no actual law was broken until he lied to investigators. Why don't any of these charges have anything to do with Russian collusion. Maybe they are forthcoming, or maybe...

If no laws were actually broken? Why lie? Why plead guilty?

With papadapolous the only law that was broken was lying to investigators. are you insuating he did something illegal besides that? And with manafourt, what did he do that was related to "collusion". Or are we not investigating that anymore?

isn't your background law enforcement? The the questions you are asking seem to come from point of naivete in that area

I guess I'm not smart enough to see how these charges have anything to do with collusion

You are not smart enough to understand that not all criminals just video or tape record themselves committing a crime and just leave that stuff laying around? Not smart enough to know that you piece together evidence and not immediately share what you have collected with the public? Do you think that these cases are fairly straight forward and should be done within weeks?

I feel like that's the stance you are taking. That unless prosecutors share exactly there steps and evidence that have and are trying to collect, that we should just drop the whole thing or ignore it or state that it unequivocally can't happen unless Mueller is somehow communicating everything his team has on a regular basis.

I mean, is this your understanding of how police and prosecutors build (complex) cases?

I understand that you feel these charges, which have nothing to do with what people were going crazy about months ago (trump colluding with Russia), are a stepping stone to something else. I think time will tell if that happens, or if we have a special counsel that will be bringing forth allegations financial indiscretions that have nothing to do with Russia. Time will show whose right, and the truth is neither of us know any more than anyone else about this. All we we have to look at are these indictments, charges which to me speak to the lack of any evidence of collusion.

I've seen conspiracy cases where a person is charged and kept on as a cooperator, but once the charges are unsealed (at least for drug/gang cases) the case is wrapping up. So does that apply here? Probably not, but like I said, I think it speaks volumes about what direction this investigation is going.

And to be fair, I am talking a skeptical stance, but liberals are taking the stance of guilty till proven innocent. So let's not act as if we either of us don't have our own agendas

This is about not only Collusion with Russians to win the Election but now it’s also about Obstruction of Justice. Trump and his actions plus the lies of all his people. Are you just gonna ignore all the people caught lying?

Once Trump fired Comey he brought all of this investigation even harder on himself and his cronies. I have to say you seem particularly unbothered by all the corrupt crap Trump and his people have been up to. This is just getting worse as they interview each of Trump’s people and they fold under the pressure and admit their lies!!!

It doesn’t take Sherlock Holmes 🕵️ to see where this is headed. Mueller is stripping the BARK off of Trump’s Ass!!!

I guess it's predictable that now that it's becoming readily apprarent that there is no collusion that now people are moving into "obstruction". Good luck with that! Will you at least admit that is possible that all the hoopla about Russia was false?
Nix, I'm about as bothered by trumps obstruction as you are about hillarys uranium deal/dossier funding.



Given your admission of bias a few posts back isn't this entire graph ultimately pointless?

A less bias, more self aware person might ask themselves if they acknowledge obstruction seems to have taken place, what is the purpose of the obstruction?

Now, as stated pages ago I'm waiting for the completion of the investigation to conclude or even guess at anything and acknowledge it's possible no 'collusion' will be found. But reading the tealeaves as you acknowledged previously is an exercise in confirmation bias.

Looks like you somehow forgot.

Nix, are you honestly telling me you are unbiased in this regard? Like you are truly objective and are just sitting and waiting for the facts?

Interesting to hear you speak of confirmation bias :)

How do you feel about Feinstein saying today that she still hadn't seen any evidence of collusion? Is that pertinent or just my confirmation bias at work...

Never said I was unbiased. I openly state my HATE for Trump and Republican Policy. Dems have many issues as well. The difference is most of Dems and Progressive policies are to the BENEFIT of the Majority of Americans.

Congress is hampered by REPUBLICANS! Rep. Nunes has to recuse himself and still keeps interfering. The Bilateral investigations are pretty much DEAD because Repubs aren’t really trying to get to the TRUTH.

MUELLER is getting to the bottom of these scandals and for whatever reason you’re choosing to ignore the MASSIVE mounting evidence that Trump and his cronies colluded and where compromised by financial entanglements. How the hell are you not seeing this. This thread alone is packed with evidence. It just keeps coming every day!!!

Maybe you should submit that evidence to the senate intel committee. At least according to Diane Feinstein they don't have any evidence.

Beat the Evil Empire. BEAT MIAMI
nixluva
Posts: 55249
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Member: #758
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11/5/2017  6:58 PM
Knickoftime
Posts: 23204
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Joined: 1/13/2011
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11/5/2017  7:48 PM
izybx wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
izybx wrote:
nixluva wrote:
izybx wrote:
martin wrote:
izybx wrote:
martin wrote:
izybx wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
izybx wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
izybx wrote:
nixluva wrote:
martin wrote:

Man! This stuff is getting pretty darned close. This is only a small piece of the picture Mueller is putting together.

Timeline:

Why did they only charge him with false statement? All this puff and no actual crime?

Maybe that was the deal. Plead to a lesser charge in exchange for information, maybe wearing a wire.

Or maybe no actual law was broken until he lied to investigators. Why don't any of these charges have anything to do with Russian collusion. Maybe they are forthcoming, or maybe...

If no laws were actually broken? Why lie? Why plead guilty?

With papadapolous the only law that was broken was lying to investigators. are you insuating he did something illegal besides that? And with manafourt, what did he do that was related to "collusion". Or are we not investigating that anymore?

isn't your background law enforcement? The the questions you are asking seem to come from point of naivete in that area

I guess I'm not smart enough to see how these charges have anything to do with collusion

You are not smart enough to understand that not all criminals just video or tape record themselves committing a crime and just leave that stuff laying around? Not smart enough to know that you piece together evidence and not immediately share what you have collected with the public? Do you think that these cases are fairly straight forward and should be done within weeks?

I feel like that's the stance you are taking. That unless prosecutors share exactly there steps and evidence that have and are trying to collect, that we should just drop the whole thing or ignore it or state that it unequivocally can't happen unless Mueller is somehow communicating everything his team has on a regular basis.

I mean, is this your understanding of how police and prosecutors build (complex) cases?

I understand that you feel these charges, which have nothing to do with what people were going crazy about months ago (trump colluding with Russia), are a stepping stone to something else. I think time will tell if that happens, or if we have a special counsel that will be bringing forth allegations financial indiscretions that have nothing to do with Russia. Time will show whose right, and the truth is neither of us know any more than anyone else about this. All we we have to look at are these indictments, charges which to me speak to the lack of any evidence of collusion.

I've seen conspiracy cases where a person is charged and kept on as a cooperator, but once the charges are unsealed (at least for drug/gang cases) the case is wrapping up. So does that apply here? Probably not, but like I said, I think it speaks volumes about what direction this investigation is going.

And to be fair, I am talking a skeptical stance, but liberals are taking the stance of guilty till proven innocent. So let's not act as if we either of us don't have our own agendas

This is about not only Collusion with Russians to win the Election but now it’s also about Obstruction of Justice. Trump and his actions plus the lies of all his people. Are you just gonna ignore all the people caught lying?

Once Trump fired Comey he brought all of this investigation even harder on himself and his cronies. I have to say you seem particularly unbothered by all the corrupt crap Trump and his people have been up to. This is just getting worse as they interview each of Trump’s people and they fold under the pressure and admit their lies!!!

It doesn’t take Sherlock Holmes 🕵️ to see where this is headed. Mueller is stripping the BARK off of Trump’s Ass!!!

I guess it's predictable that now that it's becoming readily apprarent that there is no collusion that now people are moving into "obstruction". Good luck with that! Will you at least admit that is possible that all the hoopla about Russia was false?
Nix, I'm about as bothered by trumps obstruction as you are about hillarys uranium deal/dossier funding.



Given your admission of bias a few posts back isn't this entire graph ultimately pointless?

A less bias, more self aware person might ask themselves if they acknowledge obstruction seems to have taken place, what is the purpose of the obstruction?

Now, as stated pages ago I'm waiting for the completion of the investigation to conclude or even guess at anything and acknowledge it's possible no 'collusion' will be found. But reading the tealeaves as you acknowledged previously is an exercise in confirmation bias.

Looks like you somehow forgot.

Nix, are you honestly telling me you are unbiased in this regard? Like you are truly objective and are just sitting and waiting for the facts?

Interesting to hear you speak of confirmation bias :)

How do you feel about Feinstein saying today that she still hadn't seen any evidence of collusion? Is that pertinent or just my confirmation bias at work...

You responded to the wrong person.

I am on record in THIS thread saying I'm waiting for the completion of the investigation and I'm prepared to accept either conclusion.

And yes, I'm a liberal, but I'm not expecting either outcome more than the other.

I just think trump is a disaster of a human being either way.

izybx
Posts: 22355
Alba Posts: 2
Joined: 10/16/2006
Member: #1178
USA
11/5/2017  9:54 PM
Knickoftime wrote:
izybx wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
izybx wrote:
nixluva wrote:
izybx wrote:
martin wrote:
izybx wrote:
martin wrote:
izybx wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
izybx wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
izybx wrote:
nixluva wrote:
martin wrote:

Man! This stuff is getting pretty darned close. This is only a small piece of the picture Mueller is putting together.

Timeline:

Why did they only charge him with false statement? All this puff and no actual crime?

Maybe that was the deal. Plead to a lesser charge in exchange for information, maybe wearing a wire.

Or maybe no actual law was broken until he lied to investigators. Why don't any of these charges have anything to do with Russian collusion. Maybe they are forthcoming, or maybe...

If no laws were actually broken? Why lie? Why plead guilty?

With papadapolous the only law that was broken was lying to investigators. are you insuating he did something illegal besides that? And with manafourt, what did he do that was related to "collusion". Or are we not investigating that anymore?

isn't your background law enforcement? The the questions you are asking seem to come from point of naivete in that area

I guess I'm not smart enough to see how these charges have anything to do with collusion

You are not smart enough to understand that not all criminals just video or tape record themselves committing a crime and just leave that stuff laying around? Not smart enough to know that you piece together evidence and not immediately share what you have collected with the public? Do you think that these cases are fairly straight forward and should be done within weeks?

I feel like that's the stance you are taking. That unless prosecutors share exactly there steps and evidence that have and are trying to collect, that we should just drop the whole thing or ignore it or state that it unequivocally can't happen unless Mueller is somehow communicating everything his team has on a regular basis.

I mean, is this your understanding of how police and prosecutors build (complex) cases?

I understand that you feel these charges, which have nothing to do with what people were going crazy about months ago (trump colluding with Russia), are a stepping stone to something else. I think time will tell if that happens, or if we have a special counsel that will be bringing forth allegations financial indiscretions that have nothing to do with Russia. Time will show whose right, and the truth is neither of us know any more than anyone else about this. All we we have to look at are these indictments, charges which to me speak to the lack of any evidence of collusion.

I've seen conspiracy cases where a person is charged and kept on as a cooperator, but once the charges are unsealed (at least for drug/gang cases) the case is wrapping up. So does that apply here? Probably not, but like I said, I think it speaks volumes about what direction this investigation is going.

And to be fair, I am talking a skeptical stance, but liberals are taking the stance of guilty till proven innocent. So let's not act as if we either of us don't have our own agendas

This is about not only Collusion with Russians to win the Election but now it’s also about Obstruction of Justice. Trump and his actions plus the lies of all his people. Are you just gonna ignore all the people caught lying?

Once Trump fired Comey he brought all of this investigation even harder on himself and his cronies. I have to say you seem particularly unbothered by all the corrupt crap Trump and his people have been up to. This is just getting worse as they interview each of Trump’s people and they fold under the pressure and admit their lies!!!

It doesn’t take Sherlock Holmes 🕵️ to see where this is headed. Mueller is stripping the BARK off of Trump’s Ass!!!

I guess it's predictable that now that it's becoming readily apprarent that there is no collusion that now people are moving into "obstruction". Good luck with that! Will you at least admit that is possible that all the hoopla about Russia was false?
Nix, I'm about as bothered by trumps obstruction as you are about hillarys uranium deal/dossier funding.



Given your admission of bias a few posts back isn't this entire graph ultimately pointless?

A less bias, more self aware person might ask themselves if they acknowledge obstruction seems to have taken place, what is the purpose of the obstruction?

Now, as stated pages ago I'm waiting for the completion of the investigation to conclude or even guess at anything and acknowledge it's possible no 'collusion' will be found. But reading the tealeaves as you acknowledged previously is an exercise in confirmation bias.

Looks like you somehow forgot.

Nix, are you honestly telling me you are unbiased in this regard? Like you are truly objective and are just sitting and waiting for the facts?

Interesting to hear you speak of confirmation bias :)

How do you feel about Feinstein saying today that she still hadn't seen any evidence of collusion? Is that pertinent or just my confirmation bias at work...

You responded to the wrong person.

I am on record in THIS thread saying I'm waiting for the completion of the investigation and I'm prepared to accept either conclusion.

And yes, I'm a liberal, but I'm not expecting either outcome more than the other.

I just think trump is a disaster of a human being either way.

Sorry if I knew it was you I would have never responded!

Beat the Evil Empire. BEAT MIAMI
Off Topic: six months later, do people who voted for Trump still support this guy?

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