BRIGGS wrote:

PresIke wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Nazi killed half my family. My Grandfather's 3 brothers and two sisters and families all dead. My Grandfather had tattoo on his arm from death camp.

This was the largest gathering of these people in 10 years? How many 2000? There are over 225 mm white people in this country. I think it speaks volumes how many people are in "cahoots" with these people. They are mostly young lost souls--they have no definition of life. Its going to happen. This is just another chance to blame"white person" or to group them in with "hate". The funny thing is on the other end--white person sticking up for for all and gave her life.

Every last person who voted for DT is NOT a racist or even close. You had a choice "Hillary Clinton" a proven bull **** artist who had more baggage than a mobster or Donald Trump who wanted to work hard and provide a better path economically shore up the borders and reduce taxes. That was the choice. She lost because she didnt even think it was important to go to some of these states? She was as obnoxious and arrogant as her followers. And whether DT is or is not a good President--Im sure most people are happy to shove it up the arse of many of these arrogant bastards at the very least. Do I think DT is some kind of white supremacist? I dont see anything in his life that he had any attacks against Jews Chinese Black Hispanic etc.. Many Hispanics coming from Mexico are just here to take advantage of loopholes in our system--its their fault for coming in illegally--no one else. The biggest joke is that a majority of these uppity people are the worst type of racist--the ones who talk behind the back. My opinion./

Yet you were fine with supporting a candidate who led the "Birther" movement against Obama, even offering $5m to get people to find his college records saying he faked that and that his own book was ghost written by a white man. Generalized the labeling of Mexican undocumented immigrants as "rapists" and "murderers."

Do I need to go on?

If supporting someone who engages in multiple acts of overt racism is not racist, I do not know what else to call it.

Being white and being racist is not exactly a big shock and it doesn't mean your life is over and you are labeled forever a horrible human being.

I'm white and I benefit from racism and white supremacy every day. I've had racist thoughts because our society creates this mindset in whites, and enhances them when you aren't getting enough exposure, education and human experiences with those who have a far better understanding of the subject. Yet a too many white people think they are experts in the lives of black and brown people, but barely know more than a handful of such people, and who often do not represent a diverse range of experiences from their worlds. We also don't talk about race as much because it doesn't mean as much to us. That's privilege. I had to learn to challenge and consider my ideas, even as someone who thought they were "progressive"...actually I was the definition of a "white liberal" in some ways. It takes some experiences and learning to get past that, but sadly so many can't move past the denial phase even.

I also have family who died in the Holocaust but I now don't go around trying engage in a victimized pissing context with black and brown people in America because Jews nor any former European immigrant group that came in the 19th and 20th century who was once outsiders -- Jews, Irish, Germans, Italians -- are now part of the white people clan and we don't experience anything remotely close to the negatives of what results from white supremacy, privilege and systemic and institutional racism today...and in fact continue to benefit from it, even poor white people.

White people always like to talk about class rather than race, but research actually shows that even if you account for class, race (read: not being white) still leads to negative health outcomes.

But all of this is too uncomfortable and feels too "Selth loathing" of "snowflakes" (actually they're the REAL "snowflakes" if you wanna go there, to me) for "tough" white guys who like Trump's teenage bully talk, and as with privilege and even racial identity theories go, denial is always the first phase when you aren't used to something. Similar to loss. It also explains why there are so many angry white people because anger is also a phase regarding loss. Perspective is just lacking because white people have not had to suffer as much in the neoliberal capitalism era until more recently.

It's the way it is, but we just don't want to hear it. Don't worry, I've been there, but do you want to stay in the same place or develop and grow?

Peace.

Self-righteous all the way as are most of your "diatribes" I never say anything because I dont like to get personal with anyone. Check yourself before you comment about someone else.

Okay, if you want to call me that, I don't think that's fair, but okay. I am not better than anyone else, btw, and human just like you. We can all improve, me included, but if we don't acknowledge there is a possible problem then nothing will change. If I am coming across self-righteous I do not mean to. This issue is something I am passionate about but I want to engage in meaningful discussions, yet that also means some tough, uncomfortable talk.

I know there are frustrations from a lot of white people. Trump wouldn't exist as he does without them, yet I know there are people of color that support him as well, even if it is a relatively small and unique group that does.

Let's be fair about this though, you did make things personal discussing your family background. I did as well, and spoke of my own personal experience. I'm not saying you are a bad person. I respect you, but we can all be humbled. I've been humbled before and will be again, I am sure. It seems to me that a lot of Trump people seem to have a negative affect towards being humbled, as if that is a sign of weakness. I contest it is the opposite. That is strength.

I engage in this type of talk as a social worker with students I work with who think fighting shows how tough they are, or insulting and humiliating people in front of others. I suggest this is weak, and childish, because in civil disagreement we try not to stoop to these levels and if we do we at least try to backtrack and de-escalate. We are all human and anger is completely normal. How we deal with it is important, and that doesn't mean being silenced either.

I've been called racist by POC before, and actually they were right. Actually, sometimes -- even today -- I've argued against this or similar criticisms. I'm privileged to be not afraid to disagree with black or brown people about race sometimes now -- a recent example is I've had some disagreements about what I identify as too easily pointed out examples of "cultural appropriation," sometimes by white people where I wish to both acknowledge the criticisms but also seek more nuance. I called out those who some Trump folks would scream about as being "politically correct" or who I would call classic "white liberalis" (aka "I'm one of the good ones because I do XYZ, but really afraid to acknowledge their own contributions or be seen as racist). This is only because I have had a lot of experience of discussing and learning about race/racism/etc. in spaces where I am not the dominate group (not white, not male, etc.) and always need to work really hard to learn and check myself.

If I need to check myself here, what should I check myself on? I'm willing to listen and dialogue. I sought to point out evidence that supporting Trump does align with racism after you outlined your point that it does not. I went on because I thought bringing them into the dialogue would be helpful. I am not expecting you to agree or like them, but is there a way to talk about it without feeling I am being "self righteous?"

I had a recent girlfriend who loved that I had a lot of knowledge about education world as she was a new teacher, but hated it when I brought it up. I feel like some of us...again...need to feel like we know more. I'm not saying this is what's going on, but in relation to male pride, I think we are far worse at it, especially when we consider ourselves educated and smart.

If I am being didactic, I know part of it is my own feelings coming out on this issue, but I want to listen. I recognize a lot of people are mad at the political system. Interestingly, as I am sure you know folks on the left have felt the same way about it for a long time. I voted for Nader 2 times who is really the original Bernie Sanders, and wanted an outsider to do something, as I saw it's flaws that some Trump supporters point out, but others have for a long time from other sides as well. Those who are most upset about the "economic" situation in America...let's be real, some were beneficiaries due to the irony of industry unions who guaranteed them a living wage, and benefits with minimal education. Yet, for a lot of black and brown people, yet not all as I grew up on welfare btw, opportunities were limited (i.e. NYC's decline of industry in the 60s which was a factor in the "urban decay") and led to massive unemployment and the consequences of this.

BRIGGS wrote:

martin wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Nazi killed half my family. My Grandfather's 3 brothers and two sisters and families all dead. My Grandfather had tattoo on his arm from death camp.

This was the largest gathering of these people in 10 years? How many 2000? There are over 225 mm white people in this country. I think it speaks volumes how many people are in "cahoots" with these people. They are mostly young lost souls--they have no definition of life. Its going to happen. This is just another chance to blame"white person" or to group them in with "hate". The funny thing is on the other end--white person sticking up for for all and gave her life.

Every last person who voted for DT is NOT a racist or even close. You had a choice "Hillary Clinton" a proven bull **** artist who had more baggage than a mobster or Donald Trump who wanted to work hard and provide a better path economically shore up the borders and reduce taxes. That was the choice. She lost because she didnt even think it was important to go to some of these states? She was as obnoxious and arrogant as her followers. And whether DT is or is not a good President--Im sure most people are happy to shove it up the arse of many of these arrogant bastards at the very least. Do I think DT is some kind of white supremacist? I dont see anything in his life that he had any attacks against Jews Chinese Black Hispanic etc.. Many Hispanics coming from Mexico are just here to take advantage of loopholes in our system--its their fault for coming in illegally--no one else. The biggest joke is that a majority of these uppity people are the worst type of racist--the ones who talk behind the back. My opinion./

BRIGGS this is pretty telling. "Hillary a proven bull **** artist who had more baggage than a mobster".

Trump is a known con man, his baggage is legendary, and he has known ties to the mob.

Birtherism, grabs women by the *****, ripped off people left and right, several high level campaign members with ties to White Nationalists and the like. Should we go on?

You see what you want by throwing your head into the ground and spouting off nonsense.

If you read my post closely--it clearly states that both choices were flawed. I chose the person who I felt wanted the job more and had some common sens e view points that I agreed with. Of course not all--but he has some good points. Just look at your post to me---so you think Hillary is not a BSer? Almost every man has grabbed a woman by the ***** martin--I think were adult enough to concede it happens. He didnt go around committing rape--he said since he was famous--women threw themselves at him. That was crude comment from Trump at best. Im not here saying this mans great this mans perfect--hes a narcissist and slants slightly to a radical side

Speak for yourself, I've never sexually assaulted a woman, and I never will. There's a huge difference between a consented act and just grabbing a woman without her consent, this isn't rocket science. My sister was sexually assaulted by some prick who pulled this move- disgusting that some men think it's okay to do.

Would you like it if a man grabbed you by the penis? And then afterwards insisted it's just what men do?

smackeddog wrote:Jesus, just when you think trump has hit rock bottom, he opens his mouth again. what an absolute prick.

YO that was incredible. I almost feel like we're being Punk'd. It's unbelievable that a man could be so Ignorant and Narcissistic. That a President could be this Tone Deaf and out of touch with Morality and Empathy. Presidents usually help HEAL and bring the country together. This man is incapable of understanding.

Shame on the Trump Stans out there that refuse to acknowledge how much of a flawed Human being Trump is. We thought we knew just how decrepit he was before he won but now we know he's even WORSE than we thought!!! How is that even possible???

Knickoftime wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Almost every man has grabbed a woman by the ***** martin--I think were adult enough to concede it happens.

This is just sad and pathetic.

And he complains about being lumped in with misogynistic, bigoted racist fukks. Time to put up or shut up Briggs.

Knickoftime wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Almost every man has grabbed a woman by the ***** martin--I think were adult enough to concede it happens.

This is just sad and pathetic.

Get out of here man. Now Trump talking like that at 59 is crazy--but youve never talked with another man who said I grabbed her breasts or *****" lets be real????? Im not talking about sexual assault and yes its pure locker room talk--but take in context. Im not talking about randomly grabbing any woman--Im talking about jibbing with your buddies. I dont talk like that--but in my life have I said something like to that to my friends at a younger age?--yes and so has almost everyone else here.

BRIGGS wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Almost every man has grabbed a woman by the ***** martin--I think were adult enough to concede it happens.

This is just sad and pathetic.

Get out of here man. Now Trump talking like that at 59 is crazy--but youve never talked with another man who said I grabbed her breasts or *****" lets be real????? Im not talking about sexual assault and yes its pure locker room talk--but take in context. Im not talking about randomly grabbing any woman--Im talking about jibbing with your buddies. I dont talk like that--but in my life have I said something like to that to my friends at a younger age?--yes and so has almost everyone else here.

There are two answers to your question Briggs.

The first is no, I have never in my life "jibbed" with my buddies like that in my life. No buddy of mine has ever made any claim like that to me.

Have friends exaggerated and talked about sexual encounters, crudely? Of course, but the context of those remarks were ALWAYS that the women were attracted to them, that it was mutual. That's the point of pride.

Let's be clear, Trump wasn't exaggerating about a sexual encounter (like my friends would), he was bragging about being so famous you can get away with whatever you wanted, including the most personally invasive behavior he could think of.

That wasn't about sex, it was about what he perceived to be his power.

The second answer to your question is since you moved the goalpost to "talk" is no, I have never in my life "grabbed a woman by the *****."

Let me remind you of what you wrote, before you go to too much effort to try to change the subject.

BRIGGS wrote:Almost every man has grabbed a woman by the ***** martin--I think were adult enough to concede it happens.

Your issue appears to be, as you continually display and puts you on common ground with Trump, is an inability to empathize. You believe everyone has your same thoughts, or believes as you do, and if they don't admit them they are phony or lying.

meloshouldgo wrote:

arkrud wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

Welpee wrote:

arkrud wrote:I think Koreans and Jews have the right to be free of fear same as Americans. So my choice is to get read of the thread preemptively.

One problem is the delusion that the US is some modern version of superman and we can just go around the world preemptively bombing countries who we don't want to become a threat. We are not as powerful as most Americans want to believe we are and other countries are stronger than we want to admit they are. Vietnam should've have proven that Americans don't have much of an appetite for ideological wars nor do we trust our government to send us to war for legit reasons. Remember we when attacked Iraq because of their WMDs then a few weeks later Bush starting talking about the mission was to liberate the citizens of Iraq?

There are also a bunch of other countries ruled by evil dictators. What's our justification for cherry picking the citizens who have a right to be free but we neglect others? The live free argument if very arbitrary.

That last part is exactly right. The US cherry picking which countries to bully under the guise of "liberating their citizens" is why such a large population across the world hates the US. Briggs thinks it's ok for him and Trump to make threats about wiping out Korea in casual conversation. But if someone is Iran uses the same rhetoric the the same Briggs concludes it's fundamental to their core ideology. This is as clear cut an example of right wing hypocrisy as you'll get.

Naive and wrong. NK has constantly lied to the US for 50 years while they extend their weapons programs. We literally have to sit on their doorsteps with 30k troops and nuclear bombs. You think if they had no bad intentions--we would have troops there? This is a problem and it will have to be dealt with--you can be blind to it--BUT Iran and NK are serious serious issues. And akrud is right--we dont want same thing in Venezuela. Do I personally want to bomb anyone--no. But I also would have a very strong red line. I dont think any siting President will allow Iran and NK to have an arsenal that could wipe us out. They wouldnt be doing their main job. Listen each era in the history of the world has an end. Unfortunately we may be sitting on one. Nuclear proliferation is BY FAR the most important subject in the world today.

Naive and wrong because you said so? Iran sand NK are threats because you can't operate in a world where you can't point to clear and present danger to push your agenda for unilateral violence against other countries. You and Arkrud are completely full of ****. Unlike you though he isn't motivated by the need to bully countries, he just drank a whole bottle of cold was propaganda as a man child and never recovered.

US was and is policing the world. If you think otherwise you are naive.
We are the main guaranty of stability because we are feared. And fear is the only thing most of the rulers understand and respect.
And time after time we have to prove that we will use the military force when we think it is necessary or we are asked by our friends.
And we do just that over and over again and will continue doing so.
Most of the human race its not went far away from stone age, slavery, of feudal eras.
And many cultures are trending backward. You have to be blind to no see it.
With land, natural and human resources became plentiful the large swats of land will became a Mad-max style wastelands.
And many countries in Middle East, Central Asia , and Africa already are as such.
The world is changing and as we are moving forward many nations will end up in the dumpster of the history.
This how it always was and will always be.

This is why I no longer engage in conversation with you. You always confuse the issues to a point where it's no longer useful to discuss anything. I have no issues with the US being more powerful and acting as a PASSIVE deterrent to violence.

But the rest of the gobbledegook you posted where you said we act again and again when we think it's necessary or at the request of friends is the bull**** I have a problem with. You may subscribe to the world view that we need to be the biggest bully in the school yard in order for the world to have peace, but just looking at the amount of crap going on in the world suggests otherwise. Nobody died and appointed us the ultimate decision maker on what an independent country can or can't do. But you guys are so fully invested in that idea that you can't tell the difference between peacekeeping and bullying. For the record Iran has not been at war for over a century but you need to make it sound like they are about to destroy the world so you can justify violence against them. Power is like porn for you.

What Are you talking about?
Iran fight the bloodiest war in Middle East with Iraq in 80th..
Iran's losses were estimated to be 300,000 soldiers, while Iraq's losses were estimated to be 150,000
They are constantly involved in all conflicts using proxy as Hezbollah, Palestinians, Haiti rebels in Yemen.
They are fighting with Sunni, Kurd's, and Tadzhik insurgency.
They are engaged in major power struggle for the control of Middle East with Saudis, Turks, and Egypt.
And of course they stated loud and clear that they want to wipe out Israel from the map.
Not only you are ignorant but you also have no idea about any subject you are trying to make a point on.

misterearl wrote:"Hate has always existed in America. Yes we know that but Donald Trump just made it fashionable again! Statues have nothing to do with us now!"

- Lebron James

i'm sorry lebron, but 30K emails are way more important.