Rookie wrote:Here is an image of the electoral college by state. Again, same pattern. The majority of the country is Average to conservative while Liberal voters cluster in states with the most electoral college. The only point I am making is how liberal democrats need to realize that their views are different then the majority of the country. The emphasis being on different rather then who is right and who is wrong.

I was trying to stay off this debate, since Knickoftime has pretty much articulated my positions, and he didn't even use expletives like I would have. But I have been reading this and I find it amazing that you can make a statement like this. Get off your high horse about liberals and you will realize you don't even know what "majority of the country" means. Before you go around highlighting the imaginary shortcomings of liberals, maybe you should start with a little bit of introspection? Just saying.

smackeddog wrote:

RSparrow2 wrote:I am Independent, split between each Party and Independents. I fully support Trump, can anyone seriously support anyone from the crooked, murderous, cheating, lieing Democratic Party? or the do nothing Republican Party in Congress?

Do you think Trump is an honest man? I get the annoyance with the democratic Party, but I don't get why you support a crook like Trump if honesty and decency is important to you

meloshouldgo wrote:Knickoftime - I accept your arguments about transgenders and the bathroom law. I think they are spot on. But when I think through this issue there is one scenario that doesn't fit and it doesn't get brought up very often.
Suppose we accept that transgender people can go to the bathroom of their choice. And that women have no objections to someone with the outward appearance of a man sharing their bathroom with them.

What would prevent straight males of a certain age or a certain level of perversion from abusing this law? Or do women have to lose their right to privacy when using the facilities? Or at that point why even bother having separate facilities. I am not saying I have a strong position in any of this, but you have thought this through as evidenced by your posts. What's is your position on this? Be aware that whatever it is I will likely provide counter arguments not because I am disagreeing but because I want to play this out.

At the end of the day this is really a politically-motivated solution in search of a problem. This didn't come about because women were being threatened in public bathrooms. There is no stopping anyone from entering a public bathroom late at night and/or in a sparsely populated area where law enforcement or just other people aren't present. That is just the reality of public bathrooms.

Understand the applications of the laws are really this - if you were born female but identify/live/present as a male (which takes many forms) then you must use the women's bathroom. So the desired effect is for people who present like males to use women's bathrooms.

If we were to play out the worst case scenarios of this version of the law or no law at all or laws preventing discrimination of any kind, the potential for unlawful activity is obvious.

Again, that is just the reality of public restrooms.

smackeddog wrote:

RSparrow2 wrote:I am Independent, split between each Party and Independents. I fully support Trump, can anyone seriously support anyone from the crooked, murderous, cheating, lieing Democratic Party? or the do nothing Republican Party in Congress?

Do you think Trump is an honest man? I get the annoyance with the democratic Party, but I don't get why you support a crook like Trump if honesty and decency is important to you

Is there any politician that is honest? Trey Gowdy has integrity and is as close as it gets.

We have basically two choices every election, although I've voted for 3rd party that had no chance.

Where is Trump crooked? are you talking about the Russia investigation in which the highest funded Investigative Agency (FBI) and spy agency (CIA)in the history of mankind has found NO EVIDENCE of anything, Hillary on the other hand was a PROVEN viral liar. or maybe you are talking about the daily lies and scandals CNN, NY Times and Wash Post make up? then retract <sometimes>

When it comes down to it, what the Democratic Party has shown itself to be over the last 18 months, with their many scandals, what their supports have done, what they have NOT spoken out against,they are not a Party I will support anytime soon. As a matter of fact I am voting their Party out, 2nd time I'll be doing this (Republican Party after Bush and their lies about Iraq). Also Trump has shown to everyone that the media is crooked and NOT FREE and objective, controlled by a few people and their political agenda, basically a Socialist media.

I'm all for his bringing jobs back (already rolling), cancel bad free trade agreements (TPP shot down), improving the economy (already rolling) enforcing the laws (already rolling) and draining the swamp (coming soon, all this other peripheral stuff is just garbage and posturing I could care less about.

RSparrow2 wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

RSparrow2 wrote:I am Independent, split between each Party and Independents. I fully support Trump, can anyone seriously support anyone from the crooked, murderous, cheating, lieing Democratic Party? or the do nothing Republican Party in Congress?

Do you think Trump is an honest man? I get the annoyance with the democratic Party, but I don't get why you support a crook like Trump if honesty and decency is important to you

Is there any politician that is honest? Trey Gowdy has integrity and is as close as it gets.

We have basically two choices every election, although I've voted for 3rd party that had no chance.

Where is Trump crooked? are you talking about the Russia investigation in which the highest funded Investigative Agency (FBI) and spy agency (CIA)in the history of mankind has found NO EVIDENCE of anything, Hillary on the other hand was a PROVEN viral liar. or maybe you are talking about the daily lies and scandals CNN, NY Times and Wash Post make up? then retract <sometimes>

When it comes down to it, what the Democratic Party has shown itself to be over the last 18 months, with their many scandals, what their supports have done, what they have NOT spoken out against,they are not a Party I will support anytime soon. As a matter of fact I am voting their Party out, 2nd time I'll be doing this (Republican Party after Bush and their lies about Iraq). Also Trump has shown to everyone that the media is crooked and NOT FREE and objective, controlled by a few people and their political agenda, basically a Socialist media.

I'm all for his bringing jobs back (already rolling), cancel bad free trade agreements (TPP shot down), improving the economy (already rolling) enforcing the laws (already rolling) and draining the swamp (coming soon, all this other peripheral stuff is just garbage and posturing I could care less about.

is this serious? I can't find too much that is even close to reality in the above

martin wrote:

RSparrow2 wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

RSparrow2 wrote:I am Independent, split between each Party and Independents. I fully support Trump, can anyone seriously support anyone from the crooked, murderous, cheating, lieing Democratic Party? or the do nothing Republican Party in Congress?

Do you think Trump is an honest man? I get the annoyance with the democratic Party, but I don't get why you support a crook like Trump if honesty and decency is important to you

Is there any politician that is honest? Trey Gowdy has integrity and is as close as it gets.

We have basically two choices every election, although I've voted for 3rd party that had no chance.

Where is Trump crooked? are you talking about the Russia investigation in which the highest funded Investigative Agency (FBI) and spy agency (CIA)in the history of mankind has found NO EVIDENCE of anything, Hillary on the other hand was a PROVEN viral liar. or maybe you are talking about the daily lies and scandals CNN, NY Times and Wash Post make up? then retract <sometimes>

When it comes down to it, what the Democratic Party has shown itself to be over the last 18 months, with their many scandals, what their supports have done, what they have NOT spoken out against,they are not a Party I will support anytime soon. As a matter of fact I am voting their Party out, 2nd time I'll be doing this (Republican Party after Bush and their lies about Iraq). Also Trump has shown to everyone that the media is crooked and NOT FREE and objective, controlled by a few people and their political agenda, basically a Socialist media.

I'm all for his bringing jobs back (already rolling), cancel bad free trade agreements (TPP shot down), improving the economy (already rolling) enforcing the laws (already rolling) and draining the swamp (coming soon, all this other peripheral stuff is just garbage and posturing I could care less about.

is this serious? I can't find too much that is even close to reality in the above

then your not trying or likely because you watch CNN .. Illegal Unmasking, AG Lynch interference in Clinton investigation, Lynch using an alias email and name (hm, yeah nothing going on here), Lynch telling Comey to call the Clinton investigation "a matter", Clinton smashing and bleach biting hardware, deleting 33,000 emails, colluding with CNN on questions during debates and throwing Bernie under the bus, Debbie Schultz(oh boy, don't get me started on her laundry list of issues), Donna Braserie in the DNC,IRS and other Gov't agencies harrassing Conservative groups for no reason, giving foreigners unfettered access to political representatives, selling uranium to Russia then getting "kickbacks" to the Clinton foundation, Bill C getting higher than normal rates from Russian speeches, not letting the FBI investigate the hacks in the DNC(might be hiding something here), listen to Pelosi, Mad Max, Schumer speak..anytime..Elizabeth Warren thinks she's a Native American Indian, Bengazi blamed on youtube video? say nothing against Antifa even, shooting of Republiacans playing baseball...yeah nothing here ..

meloshouldgo wrote:

Rookie wrote:Here is an image of the electoral college by state. Again, same pattern. The majority of the country is Average to conservative while Liberal voters cluster in states with the most electoral college. The only point I am making is how liberal democrats need to realize that their views are different then the majority of the country. The emphasis being on different rather then who is right and who is wrong.

I was trying to stay off this debate, since Knickoftime has pretty much articulated my positions, and he didn't even use expletives like I would have. But I have been reading this and I find it amazing that you can make a statement like this. Get off your high horse about liberals and you will realize you don't even know what "majority of the country" means. Before you go around highlighting the imaginary shortcomings of liberals, maybe you should start with a little bit of introspection? Just saying.

I guess majority of the country means land space not actually human beings. There's a lot of corn fields and forests that are Republican.

Bonn1997 wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

Rookie wrote:Here is an image of the electoral college by state. Again, same pattern. The majority of the country is Average to conservative while Liberal voters cluster in states with the most electoral college. The only point I am making is how liberal democrats need to realize that their views are different then the majority of the country. The emphasis being on different rather then who is right and who is wrong.

I was trying to stay off this debate, since Knickoftime has pretty much articulated my positions, and he didn't even use expletives like I would have. But I have been reading this and I find it amazing that you can make a statement like this. Get off your high horse about liberals and you will realize you don't even know what "majority of the country" means. Before you go around highlighting the imaginary shortcomings of liberals, maybe you should start with a little bit of introspection? Just saying.

I guess majority of the country means land space not actually human beings. There's a lot of corn fields and forests that are Republican.

RSparrow2 wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

RSparrow2 wrote:Where is Trump crooked? are you talking about the Russia investigation in which the highest funded Investigative Agency (FBI) and spy agency (CIA)in the history of mankind has found NO EVIDENCE of anything

As a point of fact Trump and the 2016 election is under investigation by his own Justice Department and both houses of Congress, not by the media.

As another point of fact is none of these investigations are concluded. We simply do not know what the investigations have or have not or will or will not uncover. That's why they have investigations.

They may find nothing, they may find something. We don't know. The idea that we would now if they did or will it simply inaccurate.

Also Trump has shown to everyone that the media is crooked and NOT FREE and objective, controlled by a few people and their political agenda, basically a Socialist media.

Once again as a point of fact this is not accurate either. Trumps existence and conduct confirms the confirmation bias of people distrustful of the media, which is a minority. He has not "shown everyone" anything.

improving the economy (already rolling)

How has economic growth accelerated under the Trump administrative and specifically what has the Trump administration done to accelerate it?

If ANYTHING within the investigations had shown any evidence of Trump being guilty of anything it would be all over the news, something like 156 leaks in 157 days? alot of "leaks" were made up. Nothing AGAINST Trump is kept under wraps, even private calls to World Leaders.

Perhaps, but the investigation is not completed. Once it is completed we'll know for sure if there is anything or not.

As another point of fact, it was just three or four weeks ago we learned of a meeting that was never disclosed that took place. How one judges the purpose and implications of that meeting is beside the point. It was a new revelation. There may be other new revelations, or not.

So your evidence of Trump being crooked is that he is under investigation? no evidence at all in 9 months and he's crooked? great case you made there.

You and I are never going to agree on political issues, but our dialogue is telling. Here is what I wrote.

"They may find nothing, they may find something. We don't know."

I clearly wrote the investigation has to conclude and it is possible that nothing will be found. But you ignored that and assumed I was arguing something else. That is confirmation bias at work.

The media was saying Trump is "under investigation" but Comey testified that HE wasn't....you believed the media over the FBI Director? and still do apparently ..

WARNER: Now I know members have said and press have said that a great deal has been made whether the president asked and indicated whether the president was the subject of any investigation, and my understanding is prior to your meeting on January 6th, you discussed with your leadership team whether you should be prepared to assure then President-elect Trump that the FBI was not investigating him personally. Now, I understand that your leadership team, agreed with that but was that a unanimous decision? Was there any debate about that?

COMEY: Wasn't unanimous. One of the members of the leadership team had a view you that although it was technically true we did not have a counter-intelligence file case open on then President-elect Trump. His concern was because we're looking at the potential, again, that's the subject of the investigation, coordination between the campaign and Russia, because it was President Trump, President-elect Trump's campaign, this person's view was
inevitably his behavior, his conduct will fall within the scope of that work. And so he was reluctant to make the statement. I disagreed. I thought it was fair to say what was literally true. There was not a counterintelligence investigation of Mr. Trump, and I decided in the moment to say it, given the nature of our conversation.

WARNER: At that moment in time, did you ever revisit that as in the subsequent sessions?

COMEY: With the FBI leadership team? Sure. And the leader had that view that didn't change. His view was still that it was probably although literally true, his concern was it could be misleading, because the nature of the investigation was such that it might well touch, obviously it would touch, the campaign, and the person that headed the campaign would be the candidate, and so that was his view throughout.

I'm fine with either way you want to go with this. If you like to refer to this as his campaign being under investigation, that's cool. I don't think we should let semantics get in the way of any dialogue

Stock Market is soaring,

The stock market has been soaring since 2009.

the Fed is raising prime rates which is indications of a growing economy,

No, indications of a growing economy are indications of a growing economy. I'm asking if you know what they are, how have they accelerated since January, and what new policies are responsible for the acceleration?

Can you speak to those questions in any detail or not?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2017/08/10/in-a-new-poll-half-of-republicans-say-they-would-support-postponing-the-2020-election-if-trump-proposed-it/?tid=pm_pop&utm_term=.1d75d2fcb871

After a series of initial questions, respondents were asked whether Trump won the popular vote, whether millions of illegal immigrants voted, and how often voter fraud occurs. These questions evoke arguments frequently made by Trump and others about the integrity of the 2016 election.

Then the survey asked two questions about postponing the 2020 election.

If Donald Trump were to say that the 2020 presidential election should be postponed until the country can make sure that only eligible American citizens can vote, would you support or oppose postponing the election?

What if both Donald Trump and Republicans in Congress were to say that the 2020 presidential election should be postponed until the country can make sure that only eligible American citizens can vote? Would you support or oppose postponing the election?

Roughly half of Republicans believe Trump won the popular vote — and would support postponing the 2020 election.

Nearly half of Republicans (47 percent) believe that Trump won the popular vote, which is similar to this finding. Larger fractions believe that millions of illegal immigrants voted (68 percent) and that voter fraud happens somewhat or very often (73 percent). Again, this is similar to previous polls.

Moreover, 52 percent said that they would support postponing the 2020 election, and 56 percent said they would do so if both Trump and Republicans in Congress were behind this.