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We should just do the trade with Houston - Melo for Ryan Anderson and two first round picks
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knicks1248
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7/19/2017  8:40 AM
Bonn1997 wrote:
TripleThreat wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:Why would you want anderson and noah, and lee, taking up 70% of your cap space for the next 3 yrs. Anderson plays KP's position ONLY, he can't slide up or down, and makes melo look like MUTUMBO on defense.

No team in the league wants him for that price, why would you?


For several reasons ( this is not Win/Win or Win/Lose, it's Lose More/Lose Less)

1) Anderson coming in and Melo going out would still be addition by subtraction. Melo is a toxic element to the Knicks right now and likely always has been. He will stop the ball. He will sulk. He will use Leon Rose and CAA to gut and savage the Knicks in the press. He will poison the younger players on the roster.

2) Anderson might be a bad contract, but he's got a smaller AAV and does not have a NTC associated with him. He might, and this is a long shot, represent some kind of value later. Small chance ( Anderson finding the gift of God in NY as a player) versus no chance ( Melo being a leader and caring about team basketball)

3) The money is a sunk cost anyway. Knicks are going to spend this cap away, one way or another, or in cash, one way or another. At least take in a player who knows his role and will play actual team basketball

4) There's a decent chance draft picks would come to the Knicks in any trade. And frankly, they need them and need them badly for the future

If you are saying there is no Win/Win or a Win/Lose here, you are absolutely right.

This is Lose More. Or Lose Less.

Taking in Anderson is Losing Less. He is, by far, one of the better options ( if that can be said) of "bad contracts" out there. As for playing time, big men get hurt. There's no guarantee Hernangomez and esp Noah survive unscathed the whole season. Even Zinger. To be real, if Melo goes to Houston, good chance O'Quinn has to go with him. The Rockets need the defense and rim protection. This opens up a little room for Anderson. Yes, the Knicks would operate slower, without rim protection at times on the floor, but they'd increase their spacing and ball movement.

This is NOT A GOOD DEAL.

But it's THIS DEAL OR NOTHING.

If you want to make Zinger the focal point of your offense, you need to actually put players around him who will serve to that end. Anderson will do that. Melo will not.

1248 wants nothing. He wants to build a team around guys like Melo, Rose, and Cousins.

WHAT!!!!

Maybe you miss my last post when I said melo can kick rocks, I couldn't give 2 shts about that guy.

Talent wise, yeah In a perfect world and with the right players around him, I would prefer to keep him, but that's not the case.

IMO Were not rebuilding properly anyway, so I know this is going to completely back fire sooner than later. I said this because I don't feel like we have the right coaching staff or president (not saying JH is bad), he's just not good for this type of roster.

ES
AUTOADVERT
Bonn1997
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7/19/2017  9:12 AM
knicks1248 wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
TripleThreat wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:Why would you want anderson and noah, and lee, taking up 70% of your cap space for the next 3 yrs. Anderson plays KP's position ONLY, he can't slide up or down, and makes melo look like MUTUMBO on defense.

No team in the league wants him for that price, why would you?


For several reasons ( this is not Win/Win or Win/Lose, it's Lose More/Lose Less)

1) Anderson coming in and Melo going out would still be addition by subtraction. Melo is a toxic element to the Knicks right now and likely always has been. He will stop the ball. He will sulk. He will use Leon Rose and CAA to gut and savage the Knicks in the press. He will poison the younger players on the roster.

2) Anderson might be a bad contract, but he's got a smaller AAV and does not have a NTC associated with him. He might, and this is a long shot, represent some kind of value later. Small chance ( Anderson finding the gift of God in NY as a player) versus no chance ( Melo being a leader and caring about team basketball)

3) The money is a sunk cost anyway. Knicks are going to spend this cap away, one way or another, or in cash, one way or another. At least take in a player who knows his role and will play actual team basketball

4) There's a decent chance draft picks would come to the Knicks in any trade. And frankly, they need them and need them badly for the future

If you are saying there is no Win/Win or a Win/Lose here, you are absolutely right.

This is Lose More. Or Lose Less.

Taking in Anderson is Losing Less. He is, by far, one of the better options ( if that can be said) of "bad contracts" out there. As for playing time, big men get hurt. There's no guarantee Hernangomez and esp Noah survive unscathed the whole season. Even Zinger. To be real, if Melo goes to Houston, good chance O'Quinn has to go with him. The Rockets need the defense and rim protection. This opens up a little room for Anderson. Yes, the Knicks would operate slower, without rim protection at times on the floor, but they'd increase their spacing and ball movement.

This is NOT A GOOD DEAL.

But it's THIS DEAL OR NOTHING.

If you want to make Zinger the focal point of your offense, you need to actually put players around him who will serve to that end. Anderson will do that. Melo will not.

1248 wants nothing. He wants to build a team around guys like Melo, Rose, and Cousins.

WHAT!!!!

Maybe you miss my last post when I said melo can kick rocks, I couldn't give 2 shts about that guy.

Talent wise, yeah In a perfect world and with the right players around him, I would prefer to keep him, but that's not the case.

IMO Were not rebuilding properly anyway, so I know this is going to completely back fire sooner than later. I said this because I don't feel like we have the right coaching staff or president (not saying JH is bad), he's just not good for this type of roster.


I thought you had been very positive in the past towards each of those players. If you want nothing to do with them, then my bad.
fishmike
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7/19/2017  10:26 AM
Bonn1997 wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
TripleThreat wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:Why would you want anderson and noah, and lee, taking up 70% of your cap space for the next 3 yrs. Anderson plays KP's position ONLY, he can't slide up or down, and makes melo look like MUTUMBO on defense.

No team in the league wants him for that price, why would you?


For several reasons ( this is not Win/Win or Win/Lose, it's Lose More/Lose Less)

1) Anderson coming in and Melo going out would still be addition by subtraction. Melo is a toxic element to the Knicks right now and likely always has been. He will stop the ball. He will sulk. He will use Leon Rose and CAA to gut and savage the Knicks in the press. He will poison the younger players on the roster.

2) Anderson might be a bad contract, but he's got a smaller AAV and does not have a NTC associated with him. He might, and this is a long shot, represent some kind of value later. Small chance ( Anderson finding the gift of God in NY as a player) versus no chance ( Melo being a leader and caring about team basketball)

3) The money is a sunk cost anyway. Knicks are going to spend this cap away, one way or another, or in cash, one way or another. At least take in a player who knows his role and will play actual team basketball

4) There's a decent chance draft picks would come to the Knicks in any trade. And frankly, they need them and need them badly for the future

If you are saying there is no Win/Win or a Win/Lose here, you are absolutely right.

This is Lose More. Or Lose Less.

Taking in Anderson is Losing Less. He is, by far, one of the better options ( if that can be said) of "bad contracts" out there. As for playing time, big men get hurt. There's no guarantee Hernangomez and esp Noah survive unscathed the whole season. Even Zinger. To be real, if Melo goes to Houston, good chance O'Quinn has to go with him. The Rockets need the defense and rim protection. This opens up a little room for Anderson. Yes, the Knicks would operate slower, without rim protection at times on the floor, but they'd increase their spacing and ball movement.

This is NOT A GOOD DEAL.

But it's THIS DEAL OR NOTHING.

If you want to make Zinger the focal point of your offense, you need to actually put players around him who will serve to that end. Anderson will do that. Melo will not.

1248 wants nothing. He wants to build a team around guys like Melo, Rose, and Cousins.

WHAT!!!!

Maybe you miss my last post when I said melo can kick rocks, I couldn't give 2 shts about that guy.

Talent wise, yeah In a perfect world and with the right players around him, I would prefer to keep him, but that's not the case.

IMO Were not rebuilding properly anyway, so I know this is going to completely back fire sooner than later. I said this because I don't feel like we have the right coaching staff or president (not saying JH is bad), he's just not good for this type of roster.


I thought you had been very positive in the past towards each of those players. If you want nothing to do with them, then my bad.
the dude WANTED Rose resigned. End of story.
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Jmpasq
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7/20/2017  8:12 AM

martin wrote:

No team in the NBA, IMHO, can beat a HEALTHY Golden State next year. It's just not possible given that much firepower. The Warriors MIGHT be able to sustain one major injury ( as long as it's not Draymond Green) and still contend and win a ring.

What I suspect Morey and other teams are doing is hedging on the possibility that the Warriors sustain a major injury at some point, and with a little luck and a little timing, push through and possibly win the West. Once you win the West, I'm not sure any Eastern team can truly hold up ( the Cavs are really a poorly constructed team)

A bought out Melo signing for the veteran minimum to Houston, plus all of their current roster, really gives them the most firepower to try to contend. Yes, even keeping Ryan Anderson on the roster.

Melo to the Rockets is a LUXURY. Can he help? Yes. Is he essential? No. What he mostly does is offer someone who can create their own shot when Harden is off the floor. But Melo can't consistently create his own shot at will anymore.

Would the Knicks buy out Melo? As the league landscape and marketplace starts to shake out as the season goes along, the key factor is going to be how many teams are going to be cap locked next offseason. Only 79 of 105 possible playoff games were played this last post season. With the league shifting to a top heavy type format, there will be fewer extended series. The couple of years with a cap jump without a smoothing scale applied means lots of teams will be in the tax, lots will have bad contracts, and disposable cap space will become more valuable.

Trading for Melo cap locks the Rockets roster for the next two seasons.

My guess is one of the factors for Morey to push for a Melo trade is any buyout will force Melo into 48 hour league waivers first. It's normally a formality that impacts very few players but Melo is a different case. A fringe team, Team X, might hedge on Melo NOT opting in, trying to get that last four year deal, and thus any commitment would just be for the rest of this season. He boosts some of the marketing and ticket sales and it's a short term commitment.

The other issue with Gordon and Ariza, and even Anderson to some degree, is they have rapport and time in that system. That's no small issue. The team knows what Ariza can and can't do, and where he will be and why. Melo becomes a wild card and it opens up some strange chemistry questions. Melo does not move well off the ball. He doesn't defend. He is pretty lethal in transition ( when he bothers to care) but this is not typical playoff style basketball. That outright run and gun might work in the regular season, but with the playoffs, as rotations shorten and each possession becomes more critical, you need fundamental team basketball to win.

Ryan Anderson is a bad contract. But he's the least problematic of most of the bad contracts out there ( Deng, Asik, Plumlee, Knight, etc) Lots of guys here are looking for Win/Lose and that's just not possible given the logistics. This is Lose More/Lose Less. The Knicks have to come to terms that the best course might be to Lose Less. Anderson is overpaid, he's not useless. Bargs was overpaid and useless. This is much different.

Durant has been hurt before in the playoffs, if he goes down again and they manage to keep Gordon, Ariza and Capella they will have a good shot. Thats not counting vet min players who may sign on. They also have no state tax so they gain an advantage on players who want to latch on.

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Sinix
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7/20/2017  8:39 AM
If you get any picks in any sort of a deal for Melo you say thank you and buy Melo's plane ticket.

That's a steal no matter what cap you take back.

Bonn1997
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7/20/2017  8:46 AM
Sinix wrote:If you get any picks in any sort of a deal for Melo you say thank you and buy Melo's plane ticket.

That's a steal no matter what cap you take back.


You're just venting against Melo. You can always get picks if you take back bad contracts. It doesn't matter who the player is. It could be a felon in prison on a 2 year max contract as long as the team getting him is dumping a longer contract.
Sinix
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7/20/2017  9:21 AM
Bonn1997 wrote:
Sinix wrote:If you get any picks in any sort of a deal for Melo you say thank you and buy Melo's plane ticket.

That's a steal no matter what cap you take back.


You're just venting against Melo. You can always get picks if you take back bad contracts. It doesn't matter who the player is. It could be a felon in prison on a 2 year max contract as long as the team getting him is dumping a longer contract.

Okay? And that's an absolute steal for a guy like Melo who is major trouble to the Knicks if he comes back.

It was an amazing move when the nets did it a month back and it would be an amazing move for the Knicks to do now.

This type of maneuvering is getting ahead of the curve in terms of what more and more teams are going to be doing going forward. Of course that probably means the Knicks won't do it and will be constructing this team like it's 1990 GMing.

Bonn1997
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7/20/2017  10:01 AM
Sinix wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
Sinix wrote:If you get any picks in any sort of a deal for Melo you say thank you and buy Melo's plane ticket.

That's a steal no matter what cap you take back.


You're just venting against Melo. You can always get picks if you take back bad contracts. It doesn't matter who the player is. It could be a felon in prison on a 2 year max contract as long as the team getting him is dumping a longer contract.

Okay? And that's an absolute steal for a guy like Melo who is major trouble to the Knicks if he comes back.

It was an amazing move when the nets did it a month back and it would be an amazing move for the Knicks to do now.

This type of maneuvering is getting ahead of the curve in terms of what more and more teams are going to be doing going forward. Of course that probably means the Knicks won't do it and will be constructing this team like it's 1990 GMing.


Depends on where the picks are. 3/4 of 2nd round picks are out of the league after 3 years. I haven't seen exact figures but I doubt more than half of late 1st round picks stick around either.
We should just do the trade with Houston - Melo for Ryan Anderson and two first round picks

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