CrushAlot wrote:I think the rockets will try to get this trade going again and this time Gordon or Ariza will become a part of a package. I didn't think Morey would move Ariza in part because he helped recruit Paul but.I think with the pause he would consider moving him to get the deal done.

i agree. the best thing the knicks could have done is what they did. great first move by perry.

Bonn1997 wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

jrodmc wrote:The rest of this really is an exercise in dry humor, I suppose.

The Melohaters, whose battle cry is always "knicks Knicks KNICKS!" for why they can't stand melo on the team, are willing to
1) trade him for someone even more inept at defense, has an even worse contract (except no NTC), and does less of everything
2) continually make the brilliant suggestion that Melo should be paid to stay home. To the tune of 27 million dollars.

I guess this is why there are sports boards to post on. Drunks wouldn't even listen to crap like this.

You realize most of the people critical of Melo have been arguing against taking back Anderson?

Would that include most of the people in the three other Houston trade threads? I stopped counting at 8 different posters...

Which posters said we should trade for Anderson? Maybe I just missed this but I didn't see it. I know I floated the idea at one point but then said it would be a bad trade.

I would take Anderson in a trade, but the compensation to take him on would be great.

Kemet wrote:As much as i hated bringing Melo EGO to NY in 2011 .. I would go crazy if Knicks bring a Doof-ball Ryan earning 100 times his worth to NY for 3 season. Plus I hated the idea of Big men shooting 3 ball shots when i watched the Original Dream Team of Bird/Magic/MJ in 1992 in Barcelona, beat so many countries by 50 and 70 points because their big men were out on the perimeter shooting 3 point shots, while Ewing, Robinson, Barkley, and Malone were shooting 80% fg on easy inside scoring.
Keeping Melo in NY for another season plus lowering Melo's playing time minutes to 26 min per game in the 2017-18 season will make Melo opt-out in 2018 offseason. Or holding Melo to the February deadline to be traded for a decent reasonable package are 100 times better than taking on Ryan 3 yr contract and a couple of draft picks we wont see for 2 yrs or more

CrushAlot wrote:I think the rockets will try to get this trade going again and this time Gordon or Ariza will become a part of a package. I didn't think Morey would move Ariza in part because he helped recruit Paul but.I think with the pause he would consider moving him to get the deal done.

Rockets are not trading Ariza. To compete with Golden State, they need wings who are versatile and can defend and space the floor. They just signed Mbah A Moute for his defense, just for that very reason. One step forward and two steps back will not help the Rockets.

Morey will offer a bad contract in Ryan Anderson, some non guaranteed contracts and likely some protected picks. That's it. Melo is not going to waive his NTC to go to a gutted team that can no longer contend because of the outgoing assets in a trade.

The Rockets don't care who takes Ryan Anderson, but Anderson has to go out in any Melo deal. Trading Ariza means you are not trading Anderson, who logjams the PF position with Melo incoming. It also shades minutes and puts more defensive pressure on PJ Tucker.

The Rockets having Anderson and Melo at the same time makes no sense. No sense from a cap perspective, a chemistry perspective, a minutes and positional value perspective.

No one else seems to want Anderson either.

Take Anderson or take nothing. Rockets would be content to see if the Knicks eventually buy Melo out.

TripleThreat wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:I think the rockets will try to get this trade going again and this time Gordon or Ariza will become a part of a package. I didn't think Morey would move Ariza in part because he helped recruit Paul but.I think with the pause he would consider moving him to get the deal done.

Rockets are not trading Ariza. To compete with Golden State, they need wings who are versatile and can defend and space the floor. They just signed Mbah A Moute for his defense, just for that very reason. One step forward and two steps back will not help the Rockets.

Morey will offer a bad contract in Ryan Anderson, some non guaranteed contracts and likely some protected picks. That's it. Melo is not going to waive his NTC to go to a gutted team that can no longer contend because of the outgoing assets in a trade.

The Rockets don't care who takes Ryan Anderson, but Anderson has to go out in any Melo deal. Trading Ariza means you are not trading Anderson, who logjams the PF position with Melo incoming. It also shades minutes and puts more defensive pressure on PJ Tucker.

The Rockets having Anderson and Melo at the same time makes no sense. No sense from a cap perspective, a chemistry perspective, a minutes and positional value perspective.

No one else seems to want Anderson either.

Take Anderson or take nothing. Rockets would be content to see if the Knicks eventually buy Melo out.

Do the Rockets have enough to beat GS? Full health SAS?

The Knicks aren't buying out Melo.

Are the Rockets in it to get to the WCF or do they want a shot at the finals? That's for Morey to figure out and risk mortgaging the future for Melo (FRP's).

SupremeCommander wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

TheGame wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:We have little use for Anderson. We're basically paying $60 mil for 2 distant 1st round picks. No GM will do that. Those picks are 3 and 5 years away. That means probably 5 to 8 years before the players are peaking. If Dolan would give me an 8 year guarantee, I'd consider the deal, but I think it's too much to pay for the picks anyway. Cleveland's distant picks don't work either.

2017/18 2018/19 2019/20
Ryan Anderson $19,578,455 $20,421,546 $21,264,635
Carmelo Anthony $26,243,760 $27,928,140

Under the NBA trade rules, Houston would have to include one other minor expiring contract to make the deal work. We would save about $2 mill in year one (with the added expiring contract of another player), and $5-$7 mill in year two. In year three, we would have to pay $21,264,635. So we would essentially be paying about $11 million for two future draft picks, or about $5.5 million per pick. That is not a huge costs for the picks. In fact, depending on where the picks fall, that would be fair compensation for those picks. Plus, we would get those picks at a time when KP and Frank might be earning near max salary. Thus, we will need cheap labor to fill in the roster. We would get five first round picks over a three year period to restock our roster. So I disagree with the argument that the costs is too much. Both Noah and Ryan's deals will expire the same year, which will likely give us one, and possible two max salary spots that year with two first round draft picks and KP and Frank ready to really compete. To me, it makes sense. Is it the best deal, no? But given that Melo controls all the cards, it is the best deal we are likely to get in the foreseeable future.

First, Melo may opt out. Second, despite the difficulties, I believe we can trade him for players that fit our roster rather than doing this trade. It will just require a lot of patience. So your trade would be $60 mil wasted compared to the option of trading for players who fit our team. And it's way too early to give up on that option. Your trade is a decent idea and this is a good thread though. I had thought about this option. I'm not trying to just trash your thread.

if we don't trade Melo, I bet he does opt out. If Melo really wants to move on, he should offer a slight discount on this year and opt out of year 2. But he loves him some money so that won't happen

I would buy him out if he walked away from Year 2 but i see no chance of him leaving money on the table

franco12 wrote:I think its a possibility that at the trade deadline/deadline for play off teams, you could get Melo to essentially accept a buyout that leaves year 2 out - I don't know how the rules work as far as our cap hit.

That would require a "handshake" deal and would technically be a violation of the CBA and considered circumvention of the salary cap in place.

Let's say Melo "agreed" to this. Under the table verbally ( You can't just leave a paper trail of this anywhere) Then Melo blows out his knee 15 games into the season with Rockets after signing a veterans minimum contract with them. Do you think he's going to "opt out" then. ( The "opt out" at that point would operate as continuing to get paid by the Knicks, for whatever the negotiated amount would be, the difference between the cap hit staying on the books or dissolving completely, with any new contract signed, at least for that first year under a multi-year deal, would operate as an "offset" i.e. Whatever the Knicks owe in cash is deducted by the salary given by his new team OR choosing to cut free and clear of the option year and testing the FA market. The cap hit to the Knicks remains the same. )

When Joe Smith and the Timberwolves violated the cap with a secret agreement, the owner and GM were suspended a year, they were fined, and they lost 5 first round draft picks ( they got one back later) Smith only lost his established Bird Rights as punishment. He got insanely light there.

All Melo has to do is submit evidence the Knicks offered him a handshake deal, and you are looking at a punishment more severe than the Joe Smith saga.

In terms of "cap hit" in general, if the Knicks buy out Melo, whatever the negotiated amount

A) This season, they take the full cap hit of his salary. The "cash hit" is whatever they might agree to pay Melo that might be less than his actual contract. If Melo "opts IN" the next year, that full cap hit occurs the next season as well for the Knicks.

or

B) This season, they take the full cap hit of his salary. The "cash hit" is whatever they might agree to pay Melo that might be less than his actual contract. If Melo "opts OUT" the next year, that full cap hit for that last option year disappears for the Knicks. The possible "cash hit" for the option year would dissolve if Melo decides to opt out. ( you want to be "free" to chase another long term deal, you don't get to collect a check from the Knicks)

Whether Melo opts in or opts out depends on the league landscape given the time and place. There are reasons he'd do it, and reasons why he might not. Mostly to do with possible injury and hoping to sign one last long term deal with the security of years over max AAV.

Buying Melo out still creates a bit of a dice roll here.

I get it - Who wants Ryan Anderson at that contract cost and timeline?

Again, this is like a "divorce" In a real divorce, you have to give up something. You can't have everything. There is going to be some ugly financial trade off somewhere. But what is always advised is A COMPLETE LEGAL SEPARATION from the other person. Pay a little more but GET THEM OUT OF YOUR LIFE.

IMHO, just take Ryan Anderson. Be done with it. Get Melo off this roster and don't leave any more lingering issues once he's in another uniform.

Vmart wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

jrodmc wrote:The rest of this really is an exercise in dry humor, I suppose.

The Melohaters, whose battle cry is always "knicks Knicks KNICKS!" for why they can't stand melo on the team, are willing to
1) trade him for someone even more inept at defense, has an even worse contract (except no NTC), and does less of everything
2) continually make the brilliant suggestion that Melo should be paid to stay home. To the tune of 27 million dollars.

I guess this is why there are sports boards to post on. Drunks wouldn't even listen to crap like this.

You realize most of the people critical of Melo have been arguing against taking back Anderson?

Would that include most of the people in the three other Houston trade threads? I stopped counting at 8 different posters...

Which posters said we should trade for Anderson? Maybe I just missed this but I didn't see it. I know I floated the idea at one point but then said it would be a bad trade.

I would take Anderson in a trade, but the compensation to take him on would be great.

Why would you want anderson and noah, and lee, taking up 70% of your cap space for the next 3 yrs. Anderson plays KP's position ONLY, he can't slide up or down, and makes melo look like MUTUMBO on defense.

No team in the league wants him for that price, why would you?

knicks1248 wrote:Why would you want anderson and noah, and lee, taking up 70% of your cap space for the next 3 yrs. Anderson plays KP's position ONLY, he can't slide up or down, and makes melo look like MUTUMBO on defense.

No team in the league wants him for that price, why would you?

For several reasons ( this is not Win/Win or Win/Lose, it's Lose More/Lose Less)

1) Anderson coming in and Melo going out would still be addition by subtraction. Melo is a toxic element to the Knicks right now and likely always has been. He will stop the ball. He will sulk. He will use Leon Rose and CAA to gut and savage the Knicks in the press. He will poison the younger players on the roster.

2) Anderson might be a bad contract, but he's got a smaller AAV and does not have a NTC associated with him. He might, and this is a long shot, represent some kind of value later. Small chance ( Anderson finding the gift of God in NY as a player) versus no chance ( Melo being a leader and caring about team basketball)

3) The money is a sunk cost anyway. Knicks are going to spend this cap away, one way or another, or in cash, one way or another. At least take in a player who knows his role and will play actual team basketball

4) There's a decent chance draft picks would come to the Knicks in any trade. And frankly, they need them and need them badly for the future

If you are saying there is no Win/Win or a Win/Lose here, you are absolutely right.

This is Lose More. Or Lose Less.

Taking in Anderson is Losing Less. He is, by far, one of the better options ( if that can be said) of "bad contracts" out there. As for playing time, big men get hurt. There's no guarantee Hernangomez and esp Noah survive unscathed the whole season. Even Zinger. To be real, if Melo goes to Houston, good chance O'Quinn has to go with him. The Rockets need the defense and rim protection. This opens up a little room for Anderson. Yes, the Knicks would operate slower, without rim protection at times on the floor, but they'd increase their spacing and ball movement.

This is NOT A GOOD DEAL.

But it's THIS DEAL OR NOTHING.

If you want to make Zinger the focal point of your offense, you need to actually put players around him who will serve to that end. Anderson will do that. Melo will not.

TripleThreat wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:Why would you want anderson and noah, and lee, taking up 70% of your cap space for the next 3 yrs. Anderson plays KP's position ONLY, he can't slide up or down, and makes melo look like MUTUMBO on defense.

No team in the league wants him for that price, why would you?

For several reasons ( this is not Win/Win or Win/Lose, it's Lose More/Lose Less)

1) Anderson coming in and Melo going out would still be addition by subtraction. Melo is a toxic element to the Knicks right now and likely always has been. He will stop the ball. He will sulk. He will use Leon Rose and CAA to gut and savage the Knicks in the press. He will poison the younger players on the roster.

2) Anderson might be a bad contract, but he's got a smaller AAV and does not have a NTC associated with him. He might, and this is a long shot, represent some kind of value later. Small chance ( Anderson finding the gift of God in NY as a player) versus no chance ( Melo being a leader and caring about team basketball)

3) The money is a sunk cost anyway. Knicks are going to spend this cap away, one way or another, or in cash, one way or another. At least take in a player who knows his role and will play actual team basketball

4) There's a decent chance draft picks would come to the Knicks in any trade. And frankly, they need them and need them badly for the future

If you are saying there is no Win/Win or a Win/Lose here, you are absolutely right.

This is Lose More. Or Lose Less.

Taking in Anderson is Losing Less. He is, by far, one of the better options ( if that can be said) of "bad contracts" out there. As for playing time, big men get hurt. There's no guarantee Hernangomez and esp Noah survive unscathed the whole season. Even Zinger. To be real, if Melo goes to Houston, good chance O'Quinn has to go with him. The Rockets need the defense and rim protection. This opens up a little room for Anderson. Yes, the Knicks would operate slower, without rim protection at times on the floor, but they'd increase their spacing and ball movement.

This is NOT A GOOD DEAL.

But it's THIS DEAL OR NOTHING.

If you want to make Zinger the focal point of your offense, you need to actually put players around him who will serve to that end. Anderson will do that. Melo will not.