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We should just do the trade with Houston - Melo for Ryan Anderson and two first round picks
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nyk4ever
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7/17/2017  11:43 AM
CrushAlot wrote:I think the rockets will try to get this trade going again and this time Gordon or Ariza will become a part of a package. I didn't think Morey would move Ariza in part because he helped recruit Paul but.I think with the pause he would consider moving him to get the deal done.

i agree. the best thing the knicks could have done is what they did. great first move by perry.

"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
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Vmart
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7/17/2017  11:46 AM
Bonn1997 wrote:
jrodmc wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
jrodmc wrote:The rest of this really is an exercise in dry humor, I suppose.

The Melohaters, whose battle cry is always "knicks Knicks KNICKS!" for why they can't stand melo on the team, are willing to
1) trade him for someone even more inept at defense, has an even worse contract (except no NTC), and does less of everything
2) continually make the brilliant suggestion that Melo should be paid to stay home. To the tune of 27 million dollars.

I guess this is why there are sports boards to post on. Drunks wouldn't even listen to crap like this.


You realize most of the people critical of Melo have been arguing against taking back Anderson?

Would that include most of the people in the three other Houston trade threads? I stopped counting at 8 different posters...

Which posters said we should trade for Anderson? Maybe I just missed this but I didn't see it. I know I floated the idea at one point but then said it would be a bad trade.

I would take Anderson in a trade, but the compensation to take him on would be great.

Kemet
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7/17/2017  12:03 PM
As much as i hated bringing Melo EGO to NY in 2011 .. I would go crazy if Knicks bring a Doof-ball Ryan earning 100 times his worth to NY for 3 season. Plus I hated the idea of Big men shooting 3 ball shots when i watched the Original Dream Team of Bird/Magic/MJ in 1992 in Barcelona, beat so many countries by 50 and 70 points because their big men were out on the perimeter shooting 3 point shots, while Ewing, Robinson, Barkley, and Malone were shooting 80% fg on easy inside scoring.
Keeping Melo in NY for another season plus lowering Melo's playing time minutes to 26 min per game in the 2017-18 season will make Melo opt-out in 2018 offseason. Or holding Melo to the February deadline to be traded for a decent reasonable package are 100 times better than taking on Ryan 3 yr contract and a couple of draft picks we wont see for 2 yrs or more
CrushAlot
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7/17/2017  12:38 PM
Kemet wrote:As much as i hated bringing Melo EGO to NY in 2011 .. I would go crazy if Knicks bring a Doof-ball Ryan earning 100 times his worth to NY for 3 season. Plus I hated the idea of Big men shooting 3 ball shots when i watched the Original Dream Team of Bird/Magic/MJ in 1992 in Barcelona, beat so many countries by 50 and 70 points because their big men were out on the perimeter shooting 3 point shots, while Ewing, Robinson, Barkley, and Malone were shooting 80% fg on easy inside scoring.
Keeping Melo in NY for another season plus lowering Melo's playing time minutes to 26 min per game in the 2017-18 season will make Melo opt-out in 2018 offseason. Or holding Melo to the February deadline to be traded for a decent reasonable package are 100 times better than taking on Ryan 3 yr contract and a couple of draft picks we wont see for 2 yrs or more
Triple mentioned it the other day. Melo probably opts out because of his age and the over 38 rule in the cba.
I've seen scant proof that a majestic aura trumps a sound plan, but maybe that's just because I wasn't looking at Phil Jackson... Seth Rosenthal 2014
fishmike
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7/17/2017  12:49 PM
CrushAlot wrote:
Kemet wrote:As much as i hated bringing Melo EGO to NY in 2011 .. I would go crazy if Knicks bring a Doof-ball Ryan earning 100 times his worth to NY for 3 season. Plus I hated the idea of Big men shooting 3 ball shots when i watched the Original Dream Team of Bird/Magic/MJ in 1992 in Barcelona, beat so many countries by 50 and 70 points because their big men were out on the perimeter shooting 3 point shots, while Ewing, Robinson, Barkley, and Malone were shooting 80% fg on easy inside scoring.
Keeping Melo in NY for another season plus lowering Melo's playing time minutes to 26 min per game in the 2017-18 season will make Melo opt-out in 2018 offseason. Or holding Melo to the February deadline to be traded for a decent reasonable package are 100 times better than taking on Ryan 3 yr contract and a couple of draft picks we wont see for 2 yrs or more
Triple mentioned it the other day. Melo probably opts out because of his age and the over 38 rule in the cba.
No way he opts out. However if he did I would prb just keep him rather than take more on lousy deals.
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7/17/2017  12:58 PM
This thread could use a good laugh

TheGame
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7/17/2017  8:43 PM    LAST EDITED: 7/17/2017  8:47 PM
Rookie wrote:This thread could use a good laugh

LMAO. Please tell me that is really Mike Woodson talking. If so, he never should have been fired and we should have just had him mic'd up the whole game. "If your last name ain't Anthony and you shoot the ball, I'm sitting you on the bench." This must be old but I missed it the first time around. This is classic. The person who did the voiceover is a genius.

Playoffs or bust
TripleThreat
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7/18/2017  1:48 AM
CrushAlot wrote:I think the rockets will try to get this trade going again and this time Gordon or Ariza will become a part of a package. I didn't think Morey would move Ariza in part because he helped recruit Paul but.I think with the pause he would consider moving him to get the deal done.

Rockets are not trading Ariza. To compete with Golden State, they need wings who are versatile and can defend and space the floor. They just signed Mbah A Moute for his defense, just for that very reason. One step forward and two steps back will not help the Rockets.

Morey will offer a bad contract in Ryan Anderson, some non guaranteed contracts and likely some protected picks. That's it. Melo is not going to waive his NTC to go to a gutted team that can no longer contend because of the outgoing assets in a trade.

The Rockets don't care who takes Ryan Anderson, but Anderson has to go out in any Melo deal. Trading Ariza means you are not trading Anderson, who logjams the PF position with Melo incoming. It also shades minutes and puts more defensive pressure on PJ Tucker.

The Rockets having Anderson and Melo at the same time makes no sense. No sense from a cap perspective, a chemistry perspective, a minutes and positional value perspective.

No one else seems to want Anderson either.

Take Anderson or take nothing. Rockets would be content to see if the Knicks eventually buy Melo out.

Since you came on this board you have been way off in regards to trade value. - Briggs 7/28/2015
CrushAlot
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7/18/2017  2:14 AM
TripleThreat wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:I think the rockets will try to get this trade going again and this time Gordon or Ariza will become a part of a package. I didn't think Morey would move Ariza in part because he helped recruit Paul but.I think with the pause he would consider moving him to get the deal done.

Rockets are not trading Ariza. To compete with Golden State, they need wings who are versatile and can defend and space the floor. They just signed Mbah A Moute for his defense, just for that very reason. One step forward and two steps back will not help the Rockets.

Morey will offer a bad contract in Ryan Anderson, some non guaranteed contracts and likely some protected picks. That's it. Melo is not going to waive his NTC to go to a gutted team that can no longer contend because of the outgoing assets in a trade.

The Rockets don't care who takes Ryan Anderson, but Anderson has to go out in any Melo deal. Trading Ariza means you are not trading Anderson, who logjams the PF position with Melo incoming. It also shades minutes and puts more defensive pressure on PJ Tucker.

The Rockets having Anderson and Melo at the same time makes no sense. No sense from a cap perspective, a chemistry perspective, a minutes and positional value perspective.

No one else seems to want Anderson either.

Take Anderson or take nothing. Rockets would be content to see if the Knicks eventually buy Melo out.


The Knicks won't take Anderson and won't buy out Melo. You made a great point the other day when you said Melo needs to opt out to avoid the over 38 rule. I somewhat agree about Ariza. I think Gordon is the first choice of the untouchables. I also think Ariza recruiting Paul is another reason he doesn't get moved. But when push comes to shove Morey knows he has a much better chance of beating the Warriors with Melo then withAriza/Gordon. Morey's job is to give his team the best chance to win. He has never chosen loyalty/personal feelings over a better opportunity to win. He will make it uncomfortable for hs coach for a better chance to win If Ariza gets Melo Ariza is moved. The only thing that could keep this from happening is a philosophy change with change of ownership.
I've seen scant proof that a majestic aura trumps a sound plan, but maybe that's just because I wasn't looking at Phil Jackson... Seth Rosenthal 2014
martin
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7/18/2017  2:16 AM
TripleThreat wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:I think the rockets will try to get this trade going again and this time Gordon or Ariza will become a part of a package. I didn't think Morey would move Ariza in part because he helped recruit Paul but.I think with the pause he would consider moving him to get the deal done.

Rockets are not trading Ariza. To compete with Golden State, they need wings who are versatile and can defend and space the floor. They just signed Mbah A Moute for his defense, just for that very reason. One step forward and two steps back will not help the Rockets.

Morey will offer a bad contract in Ryan Anderson, some non guaranteed contracts and likely some protected picks. That's it. Melo is not going to waive his NTC to go to a gutted team that can no longer contend because of the outgoing assets in a trade.

The Rockets don't care who takes Ryan Anderson, but Anderson has to go out in any Melo deal. Trading Ariza means you are not trading Anderson, who logjams the PF position with Melo incoming. It also shades minutes and puts more defensive pressure on PJ Tucker.

The Rockets having Anderson and Melo at the same time makes no sense. No sense from a cap perspective, a chemistry perspective, a minutes and positional value perspective.

No one else seems to want Anderson either.

Take Anderson or take nothing. Rockets would be content to see if the Knicks eventually buy Melo out.

Do the Rockets have enough to beat GS? Full health SAS?

The Knicks aren't buying out Melo.

Are the Rockets in it to get to the WCF or do they want a shot at the finals? That's for Morey to figure out and risk mortgaging the future for Melo (FRP's).

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TripleThreat
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7/18/2017  4:07 AM
martin wrote:
TripleThreat wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:I think the rockets will try to get this trade going again and this time Gordon or Ariza will become a part of a package. I didn't think Morey would move Ariza in part because he helped recruit Paul but.I think with the pause he would consider moving him to get the deal done.

Rockets are not trading Ariza. To compete with Golden State, they need wings who are versatile and can defend and space the floor. They just signed Mbah A Moute for his defense, just for that very reason. One step forward and two steps back will not help the Rockets.

Morey will offer a bad contract in Ryan Anderson, some non guaranteed contracts and likely some protected picks. That's it. Melo is not going to waive his NTC to go to a gutted team that can no longer contend because of the outgoing assets in a trade.

The Rockets don't care who takes Ryan Anderson, but Anderson has to go out in any Melo deal. Trading Ariza means you are not trading Anderson, who logjams the PF position with Melo incoming. It also shades minutes and puts more defensive pressure on PJ Tucker.

The Rockets having Anderson and Melo at the same time makes no sense. No sense from a cap perspective, a chemistry perspective, a minutes and positional value perspective.

No one else seems to want Anderson either.

Take Anderson or take nothing. Rockets would be content to see if the Knicks eventually buy Melo out.

Do the Rockets have enough to beat GS? Full health SAS?

The Knicks aren't buying out Melo.

Are the Rockets in it to get to the WCF or do they want a shot at the finals? That's for Morey to figure out and risk mortgaging the future for Melo (FRP's).


No team in the NBA, IMHO, can beat a HEALTHY Golden State next year. It's just not possible given that much firepower. The Warriors MIGHT be able to sustain one major injury ( as long as it's not Draymond Green) and still contend and win a ring.

What I suspect Morey and other teams are doing is hedging on the possibility that the Warriors sustain a major injury at some point, and with a little luck and a little timing, push through and possibly win the West. Once you win the West, I'm not sure any Eastern team can truly hold up ( the Cavs are really a poorly constructed team)

A bought out Melo signing for the veteran minimum to Houston, plus all of their current roster, really gives them the most firepower to try to contend. Yes, even keeping Ryan Anderson on the roster.

Melo to the Rockets is a LUXURY. Can he help? Yes. Is he essential? No. What he mostly does is offer someone who can create their own shot when Harden is off the floor. But Melo can't consistently create his own shot at will anymore.

Would the Knicks buy out Melo? As the league landscape and marketplace starts to shake out as the season goes along, the key factor is going to be how many teams are going to be cap locked next offseason. Only 79 of 105 possible playoff games were played this last post season. With the league shifting to a top heavy type format, there will be fewer extended series. The couple of years with a cap jump without a smoothing scale applied means lots of teams will be in the tax, lots will have bad contracts, and disposable cap space will become more valuable.

Trading for Melo cap locks the Rockets roster for the next two seasons.

My guess is one of the factors for Morey to push for a Melo trade is any buyout will force Melo into 48 hour league waivers first. It's normally a formality that impacts very few players but Melo is a different case. A fringe team, Team X, might hedge on Melo NOT opting in, trying to get that last four year deal, and thus any commitment would just be for the rest of this season. He boosts some of the marketing and ticket sales and it's a short term commitment.

The other issue with Gordon and Ariza, and even Anderson to some degree, is they have rapport and time in that system. That's no small issue. The team knows what Ariza can and can't do, and where he will be and why. Melo becomes a wild card and it opens up some strange chemistry questions. Melo does not move well off the ball. He doesn't defend. He is pretty lethal in transition ( when he bothers to care) but this is not typical playoff style basketball. That outright run and gun might work in the regular season, but with the playoffs, as rotations shorten and each possession becomes more critical, you need fundamental team basketball to win.

Ryan Anderson is a bad contract. But he's the least problematic of most of the bad contracts out there ( Deng, Asik, Plumlee, Knight, etc) Lots of guys here are looking for Win/Lose and that's just not possible given the logistics. This is Lose More/Lose Less. The Knicks have to come to terms that the best course might be to Lose Less. Anderson is overpaid, he's not useless. Bargs was overpaid and useless. This is much different.

Since you came on this board you have been way off in regards to trade value. - Briggs 7/28/2015
Jmpasq
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7/18/2017  5:36 AM
SupremeCommander wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
TheGame wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:We have little use for Anderson. We're basically paying $60 mil for 2 distant 1st round picks. No GM will do that. Those picks are 3 and 5 years away. That means probably 5 to 8 years before the players are peaking. If Dolan would give me an 8 year guarantee, I'd consider the deal, but I think it's too much to pay for the picks anyway. Cleveland's distant picks don't work either.

2017/18 2018/19 2019/20
Ryan Anderson $19,578,455 $20,421,546 $21,264,635
Carmelo Anthony $26,243,760 $27,928,140

Under the NBA trade rules, Houston would have to include one other minor expiring contract to make the deal work. We would save about $2 mill in year one (with the added expiring contract of another player), and $5-$7 mill in year two. In year three, we would have to pay $21,264,635. So we would essentially be paying about $11 million for two future draft picks, or about $5.5 million per pick. That is not a huge costs for the picks. In fact, depending on where the picks fall, that would be fair compensation for those picks. Plus, we would get those picks at a time when KP and Frank might be earning near max salary. Thus, we will need cheap labor to fill in the roster. We would get five first round picks over a three year period to restock our roster. So I disagree with the argument that the costs is too much. Both Noah and Ryan's deals will expire the same year, which will likely give us one, and possible two max salary spots that year with two first round draft picks and KP and Frank ready to really compete. To me, it makes sense. Is it the best deal, no? But given that Melo controls all the cards, it is the best deal we are likely to get in the foreseeable future.


First, Melo may opt out. Second, despite the difficulties, I believe we can trade him for players that fit our roster rather than doing this trade. It will just require a lot of patience. So your trade would be $60 mil wasted compared to the option of trading for players who fit our team. And it's way too early to give up on that option. Your trade is a decent idea and this is a good thread though. I had thought about this option. I'm not trying to just trash your thread.

if we don't trade Melo, I bet he does opt out. If Melo really wants to move on, he should offer a slight discount on this year and opt out of year 2. But he loves him some money so that won't happen

I would buy him out if he walked away from Year 2 but i see no chance of him leaving money on the table

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franco12
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7/18/2017  6:50 AM
Jmpasq wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
TheGame wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:We have little use for Anderson. We're basically paying $60 mil for 2 distant 1st round picks. No GM will do that. Those picks are 3 and 5 years away. That means probably 5 to 8 years before the players are peaking. If Dolan would give me an 8 year guarantee, I'd consider the deal, but I think it's too much to pay for the picks anyway. Cleveland's distant picks don't work either.

2017/18 2018/19 2019/20
Ryan Anderson $19,578,455 $20,421,546 $21,264,635
Carmelo Anthony $26,243,760 $27,928,140

Under the NBA trade rules, Houston would have to include one other minor expiring contract to make the deal work. We would save about $2 mill in year one (with the added expiring contract of another player), and $5-$7 mill in year two. In year three, we would have to pay $21,264,635. So we would essentially be paying about $11 million for two future draft picks, or about $5.5 million per pick. That is not a huge costs for the picks. In fact, depending on where the picks fall, that would be fair compensation for those picks. Plus, we would get those picks at a time when KP and Frank might be earning near max salary. Thus, we will need cheap labor to fill in the roster. We would get five first round picks over a three year period to restock our roster. So I disagree with the argument that the costs is too much. Both Noah and Ryan's deals will expire the same year, which will likely give us one, and possible two max salary spots that year with two first round draft picks and KP and Frank ready to really compete. To me, it makes sense. Is it the best deal, no? But given that Melo controls all the cards, it is the best deal we are likely to get in the foreseeable future.


First, Melo may opt out. Second, despite the difficulties, I believe we can trade him for players that fit our roster rather than doing this trade. It will just require a lot of patience. So your trade would be $60 mil wasted compared to the option of trading for players who fit our team. And it's way too early to give up on that option. Your trade is a decent idea and this is a good thread though. I had thought about this option. I'm not trying to just trash your thread.

if we don't trade Melo, I bet he does opt out. If Melo really wants to move on, he should offer a slight discount on this year and opt out of year 2. But he loves him some money so that won't happen

I would buy him out if he walked away from Year 2 but i see no chance of him leaving money on the table

I think its a possibility that at the trade deadline/deadline for play off teams, you could get Melo to essentially accept a buyout that leaves year 2 out - I don't know how the rules work as far as our cap hit.

But, that is one best case scenario - we're at the deadline, sitting outside the play offs, Perry works the phones, finds maybe a halfway decent deal - presents those two options to Melo - go hear, keep your money, or buy out leaving year 2 as unpaid and possibly off our books for 2018/19.

TripleThreat
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7/18/2017  4:31 PM
franco12 wrote:I think its a possibility that at the trade deadline/deadline for play off teams, you could get Melo to essentially accept a buyout that leaves year 2 out - I don't know how the rules work as far as our cap hit.


That would require a "handshake" deal and would technically be a violation of the CBA and considered circumvention of the salary cap in place.

Let's say Melo "agreed" to this. Under the table verbally ( You can't just leave a paper trail of this anywhere) Then Melo blows out his knee 15 games into the season with Rockets after signing a veterans minimum contract with them. Do you think he's going to "opt out" then. ( The "opt out" at that point would operate as continuing to get paid by the Knicks, for whatever the negotiated amount would be, the difference between the cap hit staying on the books or dissolving completely, with any new contract signed, at least for that first year under a multi-year deal, would operate as an "offset" i.e. Whatever the Knicks owe in cash is deducted by the salary given by his new team OR choosing to cut free and clear of the option year and testing the FA market. The cap hit to the Knicks remains the same. )

When Joe Smith and the Timberwolves violated the cap with a secret agreement, the owner and GM were suspended a year, they were fined, and they lost 5 first round draft picks ( they got one back later) Smith only lost his established Bird Rights as punishment. He got insanely light there.

All Melo has to do is submit evidence the Knicks offered him a handshake deal, and you are looking at a punishment more severe than the Joe Smith saga.

In terms of "cap hit" in general, if the Knicks buy out Melo, whatever the negotiated amount

A) This season, they take the full cap hit of his salary. The "cash hit" is whatever they might agree to pay Melo that might be less than his actual contract. If Melo "opts IN" the next year, that full cap hit occurs the next season as well for the Knicks.

or

B) This season, they take the full cap hit of his salary. The "cash hit" is whatever they might agree to pay Melo that might be less than his actual contract. If Melo "opts OUT" the next year, that full cap hit for that last option year disappears for the Knicks. The possible "cash hit" for the option year would dissolve if Melo decides to opt out. ( you want to be "free" to chase another long term deal, you don't get to collect a check from the Knicks)

Whether Melo opts in or opts out depends on the league landscape given the time and place. There are reasons he'd do it, and reasons why he might not. Mostly to do with possible injury and hoping to sign one last long term deal with the security of years over max AAV.

Buying Melo out still creates a bit of a dice roll here.

I get it - Who wants Ryan Anderson at that contract cost and timeline?

Again, this is like a "divorce" In a real divorce, you have to give up something. You can't have everything. There is going to be some ugly financial trade off somewhere. But what is always advised is A COMPLETE LEGAL SEPARATION from the other person. Pay a little more but GET THEM OUT OF YOUR LIFE.

IMHO, just take Ryan Anderson. Be done with it. Get Melo off this roster and don't leave any more lingering issues once he's in another uniform.

Since you came on this board you have been way off in regards to trade value. - Briggs 7/28/2015
knicks1248
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7/18/2017  10:39 PM
Melo is demanding to be traded to HOUSTON and doesn't want to return, well I completely understands his beef, But the whole trade me to houston sht, he could fckng kick rocks.

I knew this was going to get ugly, because if mills is forced to take a bad deal, i will be so piss, because they started this crap. Now you have no choice but to dump his ass

ES
knicks1248
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7/18/2017  10:43 PM
Vmart wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
jrodmc wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
jrodmc wrote:The rest of this really is an exercise in dry humor, I suppose.

The Melohaters, whose battle cry is always "knicks Knicks KNICKS!" for why they can't stand melo on the team, are willing to
1) trade him for someone even more inept at defense, has an even worse contract (except no NTC), and does less of everything
2) continually make the brilliant suggestion that Melo should be paid to stay home. To the tune of 27 million dollars.

I guess this is why there are sports boards to post on. Drunks wouldn't even listen to crap like this.


You realize most of the people critical of Melo have been arguing against taking back Anderson?

Would that include most of the people in the three other Houston trade threads? I stopped counting at 8 different posters...

Which posters said we should trade for Anderson? Maybe I just missed this but I didn't see it. I know I floated the idea at one point but then said it would be a bad trade.

I would take Anderson in a trade, but the compensation to take him on would be great.

Why would you want anderson and noah, and lee, taking up 70% of your cap space for the next 3 yrs. Anderson plays KP's position ONLY, he can't slide up or down, and makes melo look like MUTUMBO on defense.

No team in the league wants him for that price, why would you?

ES
Knixkik
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7/18/2017  10:53 PM
knicks1248 wrote:Melo is demanding to be traded to HOUSTON and doesn't want to return, well I completely understands his beef, But the whole trade me to houston sht, he could fckng kick rocks.

I knew this was going to get ugly, because if mills is forced to take a bad deal, i will be so piss, because they started this crap. Now you have no choice but to dump his ass

The problem is that the Knicks are focused on rebuilding the reputation of the front office and rebuilding relationships around the league. Part of that is working with Melo to get a good resolution for everyone. Putting him in the difficult position of opening up his trade opens or returning to the team is not a good look for the new front office. Mills and Perry will want to come up with a solution that is viewed around the league as the Knicks treating their players well under the circumstances.

TripleThreat
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7/18/2017  11:50 PM
knicks1248 wrote:Why would you want anderson and noah, and lee, taking up 70% of your cap space for the next 3 yrs. Anderson plays KP's position ONLY, he can't slide up or down, and makes melo look like MUTUMBO on defense.

No team in the league wants him for that price, why would you?


For several reasons ( this is not Win/Win or Win/Lose, it's Lose More/Lose Less)

1) Anderson coming in and Melo going out would still be addition by subtraction. Melo is a toxic element to the Knicks right now and likely always has been. He will stop the ball. He will sulk. He will use Leon Rose and CAA to gut and savage the Knicks in the press. He will poison the younger players on the roster.

2) Anderson might be a bad contract, but he's got a smaller AAV and does not have a NTC associated with him. He might, and this is a long shot, represent some kind of value later. Small chance ( Anderson finding the gift of God in NY as a player) versus no chance ( Melo being a leader and caring about team basketball)

3) The money is a sunk cost anyway. Knicks are going to spend this cap away, one way or another, or in cash, one way or another. At least take in a player who knows his role and will play actual team basketball

4) There's a decent chance draft picks would come to the Knicks in any trade. And frankly, they need them and need them badly for the future

If you are saying there is no Win/Win or a Win/Lose here, you are absolutely right.

This is Lose More. Or Lose Less.

Taking in Anderson is Losing Less. He is, by far, one of the better options ( if that can be said) of "bad contracts" out there. As for playing time, big men get hurt. There's no guarantee Hernangomez and esp Noah survive unscathed the whole season. Even Zinger. To be real, if Melo goes to Houston, good chance O'Quinn has to go with him. The Rockets need the defense and rim protection. This opens up a little room for Anderson. Yes, the Knicks would operate slower, without rim protection at times on the floor, but they'd increase their spacing and ball movement.

This is NOT A GOOD DEAL.

But it's THIS DEAL OR NOTHING.

If you want to make Zinger the focal point of your offense, you need to actually put players around him who will serve to that end. Anderson will do that. Melo will not.

Since you came on this board you have been way off in regards to trade value. - Briggs 7/28/2015
Bonn1997
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USA
7/19/2017  5:55 AM
TripleThreat wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:Why would you want anderson and noah, and lee, taking up 70% of your cap space for the next 3 yrs. Anderson plays KP's position ONLY, he can't slide up or down, and makes melo look like MUTUMBO on defense.

No team in the league wants him for that price, why would you?


For several reasons ( this is not Win/Win or Win/Lose, it's Lose More/Lose Less)

1) Anderson coming in and Melo going out would still be addition by subtraction. Melo is a toxic element to the Knicks right now and likely always has been. He will stop the ball. He will sulk. He will use Leon Rose and CAA to gut and savage the Knicks in the press. He will poison the younger players on the roster.

2) Anderson might be a bad contract, but he's got a smaller AAV and does not have a NTC associated with him. He might, and this is a long shot, represent some kind of value later. Small chance ( Anderson finding the gift of God in NY as a player) versus no chance ( Melo being a leader and caring about team basketball)

3) The money is a sunk cost anyway. Knicks are going to spend this cap away, one way or another, or in cash, one way or another. At least take in a player who knows his role and will play actual team basketball

4) There's a decent chance draft picks would come to the Knicks in any trade. And frankly, they need them and need them badly for the future

If you are saying there is no Win/Win or a Win/Lose here, you are absolutely right.

This is Lose More. Or Lose Less.

Taking in Anderson is Losing Less. He is, by far, one of the better options ( if that can be said) of "bad contracts" out there. As for playing time, big men get hurt. There's no guarantee Hernangomez and esp Noah survive unscathed the whole season. Even Zinger. To be real, if Melo goes to Houston, good chance O'Quinn has to go with him. The Rockets need the defense and rim protection. This opens up a little room for Anderson. Yes, the Knicks would operate slower, without rim protection at times on the floor, but they'd increase their spacing and ball movement.

This is NOT A GOOD DEAL.

But it's THIS DEAL OR NOTHING.

If you want to make Zinger the focal point of your offense, you need to actually put players around him who will serve to that end. Anderson will do that. Melo will not.

1248 wants nothing. He wants to build a team around guys like Melo, Rose, and Cousins.

Welpee
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7/19/2017  7:00 AM
TripleThreat wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:Why would you want anderson and noah, and lee, taking up 70% of your cap space for the next 3 yrs. Anderson plays KP's position ONLY, he can't slide up or down, and makes melo look like MUTUMBO on defense.

No team in the league wants him for that price, why would you?


For several reasons ( this is not Win/Win or Win/Lose, it's Lose More/Lose Less)

1) Anderson coming in and Melo going out would still be addition by subtraction. Melo is a toxic element to the Knicks right now and likely always has been. He will stop the ball. He will sulk. He will use Leon Rose and CAA to gut and savage the Knicks in the press. He will poison the younger players on the roster.

2) Anderson might be a bad contract, but he's got a smaller AAV and does not have a NTC associated with him. He might, and this is a long shot, represent some kind of value later. Small chance ( Anderson finding the gift of God in NY as a player) versus no chance ( Melo being a leader and caring about team basketball)

3) The money is a sunk cost anyway. Knicks are going to spend this cap away, one way or another, or in cash, one way or another. At least take in a player who knows his role and will play actual team basketball

4) There's a decent chance draft picks would come to the Knicks in any trade. And frankly, they need them and need them badly for the future

If you are saying there is no Win/Win or a Win/Lose here, you are absolutely right.

This is Lose More. Or Lose Less.

Taking in Anderson is Losing Less. He is, by far, one of the better options ( if that can be said) of "bad contracts" out there. As for playing time, big men get hurt. There's no guarantee Hernangomez and esp Noah survive unscathed the whole season. Even Zinger. To be real, if Melo goes to Houston, good chance O'Quinn has to go with him. The Rockets need the defense and rim protection. This opens up a little room for Anderson. Yes, the Knicks would operate slower, without rim protection at times on the floor, but they'd increase their spacing and ball movement.

This is NOT A GOOD DEAL.

But it's THIS DEAL OR NOTHING.

If you want to make Zinger the focal point of your offense, you need to actually put players around him who will serve to that end. Anderson will do that. Melo will not.

Not sure how old you are, but back in the day Ewing wanted out and instead of riding out the last year of his contract we accepted a horrible trade to move him. We would've been better off keeping him that last year and letting him walk as a free agent. Accepting bad trades is never a good idea. I would rather deal with Melo one more season and let him opt out next year than settle for a package featuring an untradeable, overpaid Anderson and be stuck with him for three years.
We should just do the trade with Houston - Melo for Ryan Anderson and two first round picks

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