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The Knicks' offer sheet to Tim Hardaway Jr. is the first truly bad contract of the 2017 offseason
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fitzfarm
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7/7/2017  11:18 AM
God the New York sports media sucks 1. This in not the worst contract of the off season by a long shot. 2. If they actually did there research Timmy became the best player on a PLAYOFF hawks team.

The only good the media bashing the knicks can do is, force a team like the hawks who barely get any media coverage to not match the contract they might not wanna look bad by matching .

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Sinix
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7/7/2017  11:30 AM
fitzfarm wrote:God the New York sports media sucks 1. This in not the worst contract of the off season by a long shot. 2. If they actually did there research Timmy became the best player on a PLAYOFF hawks team.

The only good the media bashing the knicks can do is, force a team like the hawks who barely get any media coverage to not match the contract they might not wanna look bad by matching .

Why don't the Hawks want to keep a young improving player then?

BRIGGS
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7/7/2017  11:32 AM
fitzfarm wrote:God the New York sports media sucks 1. This in not the worst contract of the off season by a long shot. 2. If they actually did there research Timmy became the best player on a PLAYOFF hawks team.

The only good the media bashing the knicks can do is, force a team like the hawks who barely get any media coverage to not match the contract they might not wanna look bad by matching .

If its not bad--why do 100% of Hawks fan think differently? Why is THJ making 22mm more than Dion Waiters?

fitzfarm
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7/7/2017  11:37 AM
BRIGGS wrote:
fitzfarm wrote:God the New York sports media sucks 1. This in not the worst contract of the off season by a long shot. 2. If they actually did there research Timmy became the best player on a PLAYOFF hawks team.

The only good the media bashing the knicks can do is, force a team like the hawks who barely get any media coverage to not match the contract they might not wanna look bad by matching .

If its not bad--why do 100% of Hawks fan think differently? Why is THJ making 22mm more than Dion Waiters?

Have you spoken to hawk fans ? I haven't heard a thing on the atl media front. I do have family and friends in atl. They think Timmy was the best player on the playoffs hawk team. They think atl would've matched but the media pressure might throw them off.

Andrew
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7/7/2017  11:47 AM
BRIGGS wrote:
fitzfarm wrote:God the New York sports media sucks 1. This in not the worst contract of the off season by a long shot. 2. If they actually did there research Timmy became the best player on a PLAYOFF hawks team.

The only good the media bashing the knicks can do is, force a team like the hawks who barely get any media coverage to not match the contract they might not wanna look bad by matching .

If its not bad--why do 100% of Hawks fan think differently? Why is THJ making 22mm more than Dion Waiters?

Why are you always posting exaggerated details? 71M for THJ, 54 for Waiters. 17M more. Difference in agents? RFA vs UFA? Miami got a discount? Waiters wanted to be in Miami?

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BRIGGS
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7/7/2017  11:56 AM
fitzfarm wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
fitzfarm wrote:God the New York sports media sucks 1. This in not the worst contract of the off season by a long shot. 2. If they actually did there research Timmy became the best player on a PLAYOFF hawks team.

The only good the media bashing the knicks can do is, force a team like the hawks who barely get any media coverage to not match the contract they might not wanna look bad by matching .

If its not bad--why do 100% of Hawks fan think differently? Why is THJ making 22mm more than Dion Waiters?

Have you spoken to hawk fans ? I haven't heard a thing on the atl media front. I do have family and friends in atl. They think Timmy was the best player on the playoffs hawk team. They think atl would've matched but the media pressure might throw them off.

Did you watch the playoffs? First off their best player is Scroder and that is not even close. THJ had some moments last year--but 71mm$ worth of moments--no sir.

BRIGGS
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7/7/2017  11:56 AM
Andrew wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
fitzfarm wrote:God the New York sports media sucks 1. This in not the worst contract of the off season by a long shot. 2. If they actually did there research Timmy became the best player on a PLAYOFF hawks team.

The only good the media bashing the knicks can do is, force a team like the hawks who barely get any media coverage to not match the contract they might not wanna look bad by matching .

If its not bad--why do 100% of Hawks fan think differently? Why is THJ making 22mm more than Dion Waiters?

Why are you always posting exaggerated details? 71M for THJ, 54 for Waiters. 17M more. Difference in agents? RFA vs UFA? Miami got a discount? Waiters wanted to be in Miami?

Close enough to get the point??

Sinix
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7/7/2017  12:01 PM

538's projection tool has Tim providing $39.6M in value for next 5 yrs. NY signed him to offer sheet for $71M/4 yrs.

Bonn1997
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7/7/2017  12:57 PM
Vmart wrote:By far the worst contract was Kevin Lowery.

Why? Lowry is an incredible player.
Bonn1997
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7/7/2017  1:05 PM
Sinix wrote:

538's projection tool has Tim providing $39.6M in value for next 5 yrs. NY signed him to offer sheet for $71M/4 yrs.


Let's bring back your man, Phil, so that we get more like $4 mil in production out of every $70 mil spent!
Seriously, 538's system is decent and worth giving some weight to, but have you looked at the formula? Do you know what factors it is and isn't counting? For example, it's not counting TH JR's excellent man-to-man defense. It's not look at his on/off +/-, which is off the charts.
EwingsGlass
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7/7/2017  1:06 PM
I was laughing at those Lakers contracts last year...
EwingsGlass
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7/7/2017  1:07 PM
Maybe Mills missed the Jr.. Thought he was signing Tim Hardaway.
blkexec
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7/7/2017  1:26 PM
Could be a family deal....With Pops having some role in the organization.

Could be a performance deal.....With payment kickers for meeting some milestone.

But I know one thing, it's not worse than the Noah deal or even Lee deal or even Melo deal. These guys will never improve their game, but only decline and increase in injuries.

THj....is like a low stock option on the rise. Everything about THj is going up. This is a smart gamble. Lee will not be around very long....If not this year, maybe next year when his contract looks great for a championship caliber team, missing one piece.

But paying Noah that kind of money, knowing his injury history and steep decline was a terrible gamble. THj is a better gamble. NY had to do something, and they got a player who's young and will grow with the other young guys.

On top of that, Mills / Dolan just proved to the current rookies, young guns on the team....and around the NBA. If you perform, NY has no problems paying you. Dolan has no problem paying a luxury tax...That's the key. So we overpaid so high that ATL had to say no. Does that sound familiar Linsanity fans? What happened after he left, most people said maybe we should've matched. It's a gamble on a up and coming young player with potential and someone with NY experience. With a Dad that brings additional coaching and NBA experience for his son.

If we are going to over pay someone, I rather it be THj on the rise, than Noah on the decline.

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Nalod
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7/7/2017  1:30 PM
Porter got 106mm over 4 years with a 15% trade kicker.
ATL fans as ignorant was we are. We all wants stars.
If we get him, Im going to root for him and the Knicks.
As for the money and value? Im seeing some crazy numbers this off season.
Anger sells, don't buy!
Sinix
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7/7/2017  1:35 PM
EwingsGlass wrote:I was laughing at those Lakers contracts last year...

Look at what the lakers had to do to get rid of mozgov. They had to overpay for a productive young player too just like we are here.

These guys don't just turn into something different over night.

Sinix
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7/7/2017  1:37 PM
Nalod wrote:Porter got 106mm over 4 years with a 15% trade kicker.
ATL fans as ignorant was we are. We all wants stars.
If we get him, Im going to root for him and the Knicks.
As for the money and value? Im seeing some crazy numbers this off season.

Just because you see some crazy numbers doesn't mean they are good moves. Look how much trouble those crazy numbers gave the lakers. How much it's squeezed the blazers from taking their squad to the next level.

fishmike
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7/7/2017  1:41 PM
blkexec wrote:Could be a family deal....With Pops having some role in the organization.

Could be a performance deal.....With payment kickers for meeting some milestone.

But I know one thing, it's not worse than the Noah deal or even Lee deal or even Melo deal. These guys will never improve their game, but only decline and increase in injuries.

THj....is like a low stock option on the rise. Everything about THj is going up. This is a smart gamble. Lee will not be around very long....If not this year, maybe next year when his contract looks great for a championship caliber team, missing one piece.

But paying Noah that kind of money, knowing his injury history and steep decline was a terrible gamble. THj is a better gamble. NY had to do something, and they got a player who's young and will grow with the other young guys.

On top of that, Mills / Dolan just proved to the current rookies, young guns on the team....and around the NBA. If you perform, NY has no problems paying you. Dolan has no problem paying a luxury tax...That's the key. So we overpaid so high that ATL had to say no. Does that sound familiar Linsanity fans? What happened after he left, most people said maybe we should've matched. It's a gamble on a up and coming young player with potential and someone with NY experience. With a Dad that brings additional coaching and NBA experience for his son.

If we are going to over pay someone, I rather it be THj on the rise, than Noah on the decline.

yup. Well said
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Andrew
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7/7/2017  1:51 PM
Bonn1997 wrote:
Sinix wrote:

538's projection tool has Tim providing $39.6M in value for next 5 yrs. NY signed him to offer sheet for $71M/4 yrs.


Let's bring back your man, Phil, so that we get more like $4 mil in production out of every $70 mil spent!
Seriously, 538's system is decent and worth giving some weight to, but have you looked at the formula? Do you know what factors it is and isn't counting? For example, it's not counting TH JR's excellent man-to-man defense. It's not look at his on/off +/-, which is off the charts.

Yes, not sure 538s $ numbers are rooted in the reality of the market. Poke around a bit and you can see they are way off. Courtney Lee was $3M over 5 years I think. Does that seem reasonable?

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yellowboy90
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7/7/2017  1:56 PM
Andrew wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
Sinix wrote:

538's projection tool has Tim providing $39.6M in value for next 5 yrs. NY signed him to offer sheet for $71M/4 yrs.


Let's bring back your man, Phil, so that we get more like $4 mil in production out of every $70 mil spent!
Seriously, 538's system is decent and worth giving some weight to, but have you looked at the formula? Do you know what factors it is and isn't counting? For example, it's not counting TH JR's excellent man-to-man defense. It's not look at his on/off +/-, which is off the charts.

Yes, not sure 538s $ numbers are rooted in the reality of the market. Poke around a bit and you can see they are way off. Courtney Lee was $3M over 5 years I think. Does that seem reasonable?

You beat me to it. You also have to look at how well their projection match to the real market place. Even if they are correct in their value/production if it doesn't match the actual market it doesn't really matter. All you can do is stay as close to the projections as you can compared to the actual market place.


I was on board with Crabbe last year and THjr is a comparable player when you start to compare several stats so I'm okay with this.

EwingsGlass
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7/7/2017  1:56 PM
fitzfarm wrote:
Kemet wrote:We are TANKING the next 4 seasons .. Stupid is what stupid does!
Tim Hardaway dont play a lick of defense opponents guards score on THJ at will.
We would have done much-much better resigning Holiday.
I thought we were trying to sign Rondo !!!

Young Timmy was a bad defender. But the ability was always there, and he became a good defender . His defensive +/- were excellent last year. I think people who haven't watched him play last season and just think we're getting super young raw Timmy we had drafted are in for a pleasant surprise. Timmy became the best player on that hawks team, he brought them to the playoffs, that's more then melo could do with rose and KP!

His DBPM last season was -1.5. That's below average (0). Don't make up stats to prove your point.

Second, his 4 year contract is not coterminous with other contracts making it an independent buying decision. You will have Timmy when KP is gone.

Third, that Hawks team was a playoff team before THJ got there. There performanxe since his arrival has been worse, but there are far more variables involved.

Last, wings that leace ATL tend to perform worse than the contracts they get. Ask Toronto.

The Knicks' offer sheet to Tim Hardaway Jr. is the first truly bad contract of the 2017 offseason

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