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lord have mercy... Knicks sign Hardaway Jr to an offer sheet worth almost $80mm
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GustavBahler
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7/7/2017  8:57 PM
fitzfarm wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
fitzfarm wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
fitzfarm wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:
nyknickzingis wrote:The question is if THj is there, then why would the Hawks not match.
They know him even better than us, regarding those 3 months.

At 10$M this move is easy decision.
At 17$M and a trade kicker, this is very tough.

That's all there is to it. After years of overpaying for straight up garbage Knicks fans have been completely desensitized. Every starfukk or in this case plain old fukk since this guy isn't even a star leads to miles of posts spinning this into some positive jedi mind trick. THEN they get mad when it doesn't work. Knicks fans - meh

lol I'll say this again crabbe<Timmy bazemore<Timmy turner<Timmy all those guys are making just as much and are not the player timmy is, timmys a lot better. Again this is just the nyk media making a downpour over a few rain drops...

More like 71 million raindrops over 4 years. Fans have every reason to be skeptical.

How come the NBA world didn't freak out when crabbe signed a bigger contract then thjr' offer? How come the NBA world didn't freak out when turner signed a huge contract or bazemore ? All players that are not the talent that thjr is?

THJ would be getting starter money after a very brief run as an effective bench player. After the Hawks put him through hell to put up those numbers, briefly. Dont believe THJ played well enough, long enough, to bring him back for that kind of money on a rebuilding team.

Don't believe you give that kind of a deal to anyone if you are planning to step aside as GM. Rasputin could learn something from Mills.

Thjr was the starter he earned it halfway through the year. Turner was never a starter he got 70 mil to be a bench player, same for crabbe at 75, Kent bazemore who makes 70 mil lost minutes to timmy .

Timmy is getting starter money to be our starter he's still developing at 25 ... I'm not saying we got a deal for thjr we definitely are taking a risk but the guy was lights out for the second half of the season . He turned the corner for sure on both ends of the court. And with lower talent like bazemore,crabbe, and turner getting the same or more $ this shouldn't be a shock .

Hard to argue in this situation with someone who has done more homework than I have, but Im going to try!

Its still half a season, the Knicks are still a long way from contending, and it still eats up a lot of cap room (along with Noah's) as KP's rookie deal expires.

Its been argued that all this cap room might not keep KP from leaving. I would argue that KP believes that if he is the go to guy, getting players to come to NYC wont be a problem. I believe Porzingis can become a franchise player, he wont be in NY (RFA or not) if the Knicks are too eager to give out big contracts to unproven talent. THJ might be one of them, hope thats not the case.

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meloshouldgo
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7/7/2017  9:28 PM    LAST EDITED: 7/7/2017  9:30 PM
I am yet to read one credible response to WHY we needed to do this NOW?
What is the purpose of signing this guy that everyone agrees is a risk at his contract level to a position where we already have a decent starter on a good contract. We are not winning anything now, this dude isn't going to be the next Kobe or Klay, we could overpay for a player like him on any given year, what great intangible does he possess that was considered irreplaceable? Even if we traded Lee why do we need THJR now on a 4/71MM contract?
The only things that trickle down are wages and horse shit
fitzfarm
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7/7/2017  9:35 PM
GustavBahler wrote:
fitzfarm wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
fitzfarm wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
fitzfarm wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:
nyknickzingis wrote:The question is if THj is there, then why would the Hawks not match.
They know him even better than us, regarding those 3 months.

At 10$M this move is easy decision.
At 17$M and a trade kicker, this is very tough.

That's all there is to it. After years of overpaying for straight up garbage Knicks fans have been completely desensitized. Every starfukk or in this case plain old fukk since this guy isn't even a star leads to miles of posts spinning this into some positive jedi mind trick. THEN they get mad when it doesn't work. Knicks fans - meh

lol I'll say this again crabbe<Timmy bazemore<Timmy turner<Timmy all those guys are making just as much and are not the player timmy is, timmys a lot better. Again this is just the nyk media making a downpour over a few rain drops...

More like 71 million raindrops over 4 years. Fans have every reason to be skeptical.

How come the NBA world didn't freak out when crabbe signed a bigger contract then thjr' offer? How come the NBA world didn't freak out when turner signed a huge contract or bazemore ? All players that are not the talent that thjr is?

THJ would be getting starter money after a very brief run as an effective bench player. After the Hawks put him through hell to put up those numbers, briefly. Dont believe THJ played well enough, long enough, to bring him back for that kind of money on a rebuilding team.

Don't believe you give that kind of a deal to anyone if you are planning to step aside as GM. Rasputin could learn something from Mills.

Thjr was the starter he earned it halfway through the year. Turner was never a starter he got 70 mil to be a bench player, same for crabbe at 75, Kent bazemore who makes 70 mil lost minutes to timmy .

Timmy is getting starter money to be our starter he's still developing at 25 ... I'm not saying we got a deal for thjr we definitely are taking a risk but the guy was lights out for the second half of the season . He turned the corner for sure on both ends of the court. And with lower talent like bazemore,crabbe, and turner getting the same or more $ this shouldn't be a shock .

Hard to argue in this situation with someone who has done more homework than I have, but Im going to try!

Its still half a season, the Knicks are still a long way from contending, and it still eats up a lot of cap room (along with Noah's) as KP's rookie deal expires.

Its been argued that all this cap room might not keep KP from leaving. I would argue that KP believes that if he is the go to guy, getting players to come to NYC wont be a problem. I believe Porzingis can become a franchise player, he wont be in NY (RFA or not) if the Knicks are too eager to give out big contracts to unproven talent. THJ might be one of them, hope thats not the case.

I hear ya, I think KP is here to stay long term like Ewing was. I don't think timmy really hurts us his contract isn't that bad and he is a talented player . Hey if it doesn't work out we suck and get get top picks the next few years . Timmy goes to the bench just like crabbe and turner . He'll still contribute in some realm . KP will be the franchise player it might take another year or two . Remember Ewing was a franchise player but he went to school for 4 years and was 22 when he came to the NBA ...

I'm hopeful it all works out in the long run, we all should be as dans of the greatest basketball team the New York Knicks ... no matter how bad we are and the moves we make I'll always bleed orange and blue

Uptown
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7/7/2017  9:57 PM
GustavBahler wrote:
fitzfarm wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
fitzfarm wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
fitzfarm wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:
nyknickzingis wrote:The question is if THj is there, then why would the Hawks not match.
They know him even better than us, regarding those 3 months.

At 10$M this move is easy decision.
At 17$M and a trade kicker, this is very tough.

That's all there is to it. After years of overpaying for straight up garbage Knicks fans have been completely desensitized. Every starfukk or in this case plain old fukk since this guy isn't even a star leads to miles of posts spinning this into some positive jedi mind trick. THEN they get mad when it doesn't work. Knicks fans - meh

lol I'll say this again crabbe<Timmy bazemore<Timmy turner<Timmy all those guys are making just as much and are not the player timmy is, timmys a lot better. Again this is just the nyk media making a downpour over a few rain drops...

More like 71 million raindrops over 4 years. Fans have every reason to be skeptical.

How come the NBA world didn't freak out when crabbe signed a bigger contract then thjr' offer? How come the NBA world didn't freak out when turner signed a huge contract or bazemore ? All players that are not the talent that thjr is?

THJ would be getting starter money after a very brief run as an effective bench player. After the Hawks put him through hell to put up those numbers, briefly. Dont believe THJ played well enough, long enough, to bring him back for that kind of money on a rebuilding team.

Don't believe you give that kind of a deal to anyone if you are planning to step aside as GM. Rasputin could learn something from Mills.

Thjr was the starter he earned it halfway through the year. Turner was never a starter he got 70 mil to be a bench player, same for crabbe at 75, Kent bazemore who makes 70 mil lost minutes to timmy .

Timmy is getting starter money to be our starter he's still developing at 25 ... I'm not saying we got a deal for thjr we definitely are taking a risk but the guy was lights out for the second half of the season . He turned the corner for sure on both ends of the court. And with lower talent like bazemore,crabbe, and turner getting the same or more $ this shouldn't be a shock .

Hard to argue in this situation with someone who has done more homework than I have, but Im going to try!

Its still half a season, the Knicks are still a long way from contending, and it still eats up a lot of cap room (along with Noah's) as KP's rookie deal expires.

Its been argued that all this cap room might not keep KP from leaving. I would argue that KP believes that if he is the go to guy, getting players to come to NYC wont be a problem. I believe Porzingis can become a franchise player, he wont be in NY (RFA or not) if the Knicks are too eager to give out big contracts to unproven talent. THJ might be one of them, hope thats not the case.

I hear ya, but who exactly are we saving money for? Hard to believe elite players will be lining up to play with KP anytime soon especially if we are losing/rebuilding. We couldn't get elite players to play with Ewing and we were winning...

My question for you is, who exactly are we saving the money for? I'm not saying throw it away, but spending money on a 25 yr old who is coming into his prime and still fits the theme of accumulating your talent, I dont see too much of a problem...yes, it was a bit too much money but I like the gamble...

Uptown
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7/7/2017  10:06 PM    LAST EDITED: 7/7/2017  10:10 PM
meloshouldgo wrote:I am yet to read one credible response to WHY we needed to do this NOW?
What is the purpose of signing this guy that everyone agrees is a risk at his contract level to a position where we already have a decent starter on a good contract. We are not winning anything now, this dude isn't going to be the next Kobe or Klay, we could overpay for a player like him on any given year, what great intangible does he possess that was considered irreplaceable? Even if we traded Lee why do we need THJR now on a 4/71MM contract?

Perhaps this question cant be answered until the next dominoes fall. Lee has a good contract, one that can be moved. If that is the plan, lets see what assets Lee can bring in. At this point, Hardaway is a better player than Lee, so signing him is an upgrade at the 2 and maybe Lee will be used to fill another glaring need...

As far as why THJ and why now? Well, if the plan all along was to use Lee's friendly contract to secure another asset, obviously we needed to fill the SG spot and THJ, IMO is a better player than KCP who is also available and who may be looking for more money than Hardarway...Mills and the front office know Haradaway on a personal level and know what brings to the locker room. Maybe he fits the culture they are trying to develop moving forward...I'm speculating right now, but again, this should be more clear once and if they can move Lee...

One more point...Hardaway excels at a faster pace. I suspect Hornacek endorsed this move as Hardaway fits a more faster pace that Hornacek favors...Lee and Melo play a slower brand of basketball so I suspect both will be moved...

sidsanders
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7/7/2017  10:13 PM
atl is stretching jc. atl up to something perhaps.

GO TEAM VENTURE!!!!!
fitzfarm
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7/7/2017  10:26 PM
sidsanders wrote:atl is stretching jc. atl up to something perhaps.

I'm pretty sure that was there plan all along

SocraticBallin22
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7/7/2017  10:41 PM    LAST EDITED: 7/7/2017  10:42 PM
16 straight 3's. Tiny Tim not so Tiny no mo' #KnicksTape

meloshouldgo
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7/7/2017  10:41 PM
Uptown wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:I am yet to read one credible response to WHY we needed to do this NOW?
What is the purpose of signing this guy that everyone agrees is a risk at his contract level to a position where we already have a decent starter on a good contract. We are not winning anything now, this dude isn't going to be the next Kobe or Klay, we could overpay for a player like him on any given year, what great intangible does he possess that was considered irreplaceable? Even if we traded Lee why do we need THJR now on a 4/71MM contract?

Perhaps this question cant be answered until the next dominoes fall. Lee has a good contract, one that can be moved. If that is the plan, lets see what assets Lee can bring in. At this point, Hardaway is a better player than Lee, so signing him is an upgrade at the 2 and maybe Lee will be used to fill another glaring need...

As far as why THJ and why now? Well, if the plan all along was to use Lee's friendly contract to secure another asset, obviously we needed to fill the SG spot and THJ, IMO is a better player than KCP who is also available and who may be looking for more money than Hardarway...Mills and the front office know Haradaway on a personal level and know what brings to the locker room. Maybe he fits the culture they are trying to develop moving forward...I'm speculating right now, but again, this should be more clear once and if they can move Lee...

One more point...Hardaway excels at a faster pace. I suspect Hornacek endorsed this move as Hardaway fits a more faster pace that Hornacek favors...Lee and Melo play a slower brand of basketball so I suspect both will be moved...

Speed maybe one good reason, but it clearly isn't hard to find in the NBA. You posted multiple times about his ability to explode in an instant from looking bored to dunking on people ala KD. While I doubt anyone can do it like KD, but if this kid can even come close to that and play above average defense consistently, then he can be long term piece. Lots of ifs and I am definitely not sold yet.

The only things that trickle down are wages and horse shit
fitzfarm
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7/7/2017  10:56 PM
SocraticBallin22 wrote:16 straight 3's. Tiny Tim not so Tiny no mo' #KnicksTape

Seems like he already knows he's a knick

Uptown
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7/7/2017  10:56 PM    LAST EDITED: 7/7/2017  10:56 PM
meloshouldgo wrote:
Uptown wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:I am yet to read one credible response to WHY we needed to do this NOW?
What is the purpose of signing this guy that everyone agrees is a risk at his contract level to a position where we already have a decent starter on a good contract. We are not winning anything now, this dude isn't going to be the next Kobe or Klay, we could overpay for a player like him on any given year, what great intangible does he possess that was considered irreplaceable? Even if we traded Lee why do we need THJR now on a 4/71MM contract?

Perhaps this question cant be answered until the next dominoes fall. Lee has a good contract, one that can be moved. If that is the plan, lets see what assets Lee can bring in. At this point, Hardaway is a better player than Lee, so signing him is an upgrade at the 2 and maybe Lee will be used to fill another glaring need...

As far as why THJ and why now? Well, if the plan all along was to use Lee's friendly contract to secure another asset, obviously we needed to fill the SG spot and THJ, IMO is a better player than KCP who is also available and who may be looking for more money than Hardarway...Mills and the front office know Haradaway on a personal level and know what brings to the locker room. Maybe he fits the culture they are trying to develop moving forward...I'm speculating right now, but again, this should be more clear once and if they can move Lee...

One more point...Hardaway excels at a faster pace. I suspect Hornacek endorsed this move as Hardaway fits a more faster pace that Hornacek favors...Lee and Melo play a slower brand of basketball so I suspect both will be moved...

Speed maybe one good reason, but it clearly isn't hard to find in the NBA. You posted multiple times about his ability to explode in an instant from looking bored to dunking on people ala KD. While I doubt anyone can do it like KD, but if this kid can even come close to that and play above average defense consistently, then he can be long term piece. Lots of ifs and I am definitely not sold yet.

Fair enough...See 2:40 for the drive and slam...its not Clyde Drexler-like, but still explosive for a guy who most thought was just a 3 point sniper...

Uptown
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7/7/2017  10:59 PM
If you're bored...
Jmpasq
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7/7/2017  11:38 PM
newyorknewyork wrote:My only real issue with the signing is that I feel its a year to 2 to early for this type of signing. We should have been using our cap space to asset collect over the next 2 years. If we pilled up 3-4 future fist round draft picks by eating ugly contracts with 1-2 years left on them. Then we could have went into 2019 with nice collection of picks and cap space. To go with Frank, KP, Willy, Dotson. And another 2 lottery picks. Then we could trade one of those 1 lotto picks and the other future picks for a star. Still have cap space to sign some other players. Moves that could build a championship contender.

Oh wow common sense you should be the GM of the Knicks

Check out My NFL Draft Prospect Videos at Youtube User Pages Jmpasq,JPdraftjedi,Jmpasqdraftjedi. www.Draftbreakdown.com
Zebo13
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7/7/2017  11:59 PM
nixluva wrote:What the Knicks were likely looking at is how THJ progressed and in particular when he started getting starter minutes.


DATE MIN FGM-FGA FG% 3PM-3PA 3P% FTM-FTA FT% REB AST BLK STL PF TO PTS
February 31.4 6.1-13.3 .459 2.5-6.4 .386 2.8-3.3 .861 3.9 2.4 0.3 0.6 1.0 1.5 17.5
March 32.3 6.4-13.5 .472 2.1-5.9 .362 3.4-3.9 .857 2.9 2.6 0.2 1.1 1.5 1.8 18.3
April 33.0 6.7-13.2 .506 2.0-4.8 .414 2.8-3.7 .773 5.3 3.8 0.0 0.3 1.8 1.8 18.2

They're taking a gamble that he's about to take the next step in his career to a legit starter level.

As usual Nix, you know what you're talking about. We may have one of the next top SG's of the future at a decent price. He may be everything we thought he might be. Trading Lee may be in the works already along with Melo or not.

buddapaw
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7/8/2017  12:25 AM
Uptown wrote:I'm n the A and watched a bunch of Hawks games and I can assure anyone that this is not the same Hardaway we saw wearing a Knicks uniform. He took over games for them last season and during the second half of the season, his confidence continued to grow. With 30+ minutes, he can average about 18pts per next year and will have some games where he puts 30 on the board. His defense has improved aswell...He is a much better player than Lee at this point and anyone who compares the two did not see Hardaway last yr.

With that said, the contract is a bit much...but instead of me flying off the deep end like most of you guys are, we need to wait and see how this pans out. None of us can see the big picture. I'm sure there's a plan in place, this was just the first move that may not look good in a vacuum but can make more sense when/if follow up moves are made. Word from the Knicks is that they want to rebuild with youth. This move does nothing to contradict that theme. Hardaway is similar in age to KP and Willy and is entering his prime years. Hardawys game and development is trending up and I'm not mad at the signing.

In order for this move to really work, however, Lee and Melo need to be moved.....

This! I am also in A and he is no longer the deer in headlights tiny Timmy anymore

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Zebo13
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7/8/2017  12:57 AM
Let's not forget that we don't have a slasher finisher on the whole roster at the moment. He can fill that roll in our offense, take pressure off KP, and be a spot up shooter when KP or even Melo get doubled.
newyorknewyork
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7/8/2017  12:59 AM
Zebo13 wrote:
nixluva wrote:What the Knicks were likely looking at is how THJ progressed and in particular when he started getting starter minutes.


DATE MIN FGM-FGA FG% 3PM-3PA 3P% FTM-FTA FT% REB AST BLK STL PF TO PTS
February 31.4 6.1-13.3 .459 2.5-6.4 .386 2.8-3.3 .861 3.9 2.4 0.3 0.6 1.0 1.5 17.5
March 32.3 6.4-13.5 .472 2.1-5.9 .362 3.4-3.9 .857 2.9 2.6 0.2 1.1 1.5 1.8 18.3
April 33.0 6.7-13.2 .506 2.0-4.8 .414 2.8-3.7 .773 5.3 3.8 0.0 0.3 1.8 1.8 18.2

They're taking a gamble that he's about to take the next step in his career to a legit starter level.

As usual Nix, you know what you're talking about. We may have one of the next top SG's of the future at a decent price. He may be everything we thought he might be. Trading Lee may be in the works already along with Melo or not.

April was only 6 games, but yes he improved and stepped up once Korver was traded. In the 6 games he played in the playoffs. He put up 2.7rebs and 1.2ast in 33mins. When his shot was way off he didn't provide anything else. He needs to continue to work on his all around game. I hope that is his mindset coming in.

mlby1215
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7/8/2017  1:38 AM
There is no basketball related reason but it is a reason in business. Mills is the man now and he does not intend to be the man in rebuilding mode. He wants to be the man in winning mode. It is now the time for him to shine.

He probably didn't intend to sign THjr at first, but it turns out he is only one he could. He knew fully well that his career depends on win/loss and he will die very soon if he doesn't deliver.

I mean, it is pretty crazy to ask a GM to tank when the previous GM got killed by it. Intentional or not, Phil tanked and saved us a lot of picks and a young core but he got fired. What is the reward? Mills claimed the reward. It is like Hinkie's situation. Mills is a very smart man. He didn't come to the top in a large company by being stupid. He fully knows what is good for his career. His life is now, and he needs to win now. Rebuilding and keeping picks will only benefit the next guy behind him.

We actually didn't have the patience. Phil tanked three season, but there is a lot of guys claiming he has set back this team in a decade. He almost destroyed Knicks or something. At the end, here is New York. We will continue to overpay and be struck with our overpaid players afterward. I do not say THjr will not be good. He can. But the problem is the mind set. Let's us overpay this guy and hope he will be super good somehow to justify the salary. It happened many times in Knicks history, and it rarely worked.

meloshouldgo wrote:I am yet to read one credible response to WHY we needed to do this NOW?
What is the purpose of signing this guy that everyone agrees is a risk at his contract level to a position where we already have a decent starter on a good contract. We are not winning anything now, this dude isn't going to be the next Kobe or Klay, we could overpay for a player like him on any given year, what great intangible does he possess that was considered irreplaceable? Even if we traded Lee why do we need THJR now on a 4/71MM contract?
smackeddog
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7/8/2017  4:13 AM
fitzfarm wrote:
sidsanders wrote:atl is stretching jc. atl up to something perhaps.

I'm pretty sure that was there plan all along

But why stretch him? Just has this year fully guaranteed, then partial guarantee next year

Bonn1997
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7/8/2017  7:44 AM
meloshouldgo wrote:I am yet to read one credible response to WHY we needed to do this NOW?
What is the purpose of signing this guy that everyone agrees is a risk at his contract level to a position where we already have a decent starter on a good contract. We are not winning anything now, this dude isn't going to be the next Kobe or Klay, we could overpay for a player like him on any given year, what great intangible does he possess that was considered irreplaceable? Even if we traded Lee why do we need THJR now on a 4/71MM contract?

If Lee is on a decent contract, TH JR is on a great contract because he is more than $5 mil a season better than Lee.

lord have mercy... Knicks sign Hardaway Jr to an offer sheet worth almost $80mm

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