meloshouldgo wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:95% of Knicks fans thinks the deal was dumb 100% of Atlanta fans agree.

Dion Waiters got 50mm and Hardaway 71

No way to chew it--my bet is fans will have a quick buyers remorse and well be discussing how to get rid of Hardaways contract in 2 years.

Mills overpaid so Atlanta would not match.
He did it after Waiters rejected his offer.
They want a starting level 2 guard that can give 15 points a night to pair with Ntilikina in the backcourt longterm. 25 and younger is what they want.

After Waiters, next best option was Hardaway.

The money does suck. I agree. It's a huge risk. I hope Atlanta matches, but I like we went after a guy that is young on the upswing or upward slope of his career vs going for Derrick Rose, Joakim Noah, Courtney Lee, Brandon Jennings who are on the downward trend of their careers.

Same question I asked others, what was the burning need to do it this offseason? Will this add a few more wins? Will that help our hurt our chances in getting a better pick next year? Why is it that the Knicks always overpay for the table scraps after striking out on the players they really want? We wanted LeBron and ended up with Amare and MElo. This is the type of thinking that cost us 7 years of mediocrity.

The only argument I will make on this is: if we sign nobody and have no talent on the team outside of KP and Frank, and we completely bottom out, as you propose, what free agents would want to come here once we have the cap space? Also, do you think KP will be happy if we win 20 games the next two years once he can test the market? We run the risk of losing him. By remaining somewhat competitive with a young core of talent, it shows improvement to upcoming FA's, which will give us a chance in future free agency. There is a balance between tanking and being competitive in rebuilding.

Did anyone remember O'quinn? He was RFA but we could sign him with 16/4. The reason is that is S&T, we were willing to give something to Magic so they didn't match.

Can we just do the same instead of taking 23mil cap hit? Is it necessary? Really?

Sinix wrote:

SocraticBallin22 wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:95% of Knicks fans thinks the deal was dumb 100% of Atlanta fans agree.

Dion Waiters got 50mm and Hardaway 71

No way to chew it--my bet is fans will have a quick buyers remorse and well be discussing how to get rid of Hardaways contract in 2 years.

Mills overpaid so Atlanta would not match.
He did it after Waiters rejected his offer.
They want a starting level 2 guard that can give 15 points a night to pair with Ntilikina in the backcourt longterm. 25 and younger is what they want.

After Waiters, next best option was Hardaway.

The money does suck. I agree. It's a huge risk. I hope Atlanta matches, but I like we went after a guy that is young on the upswing or upward slope of his career vs going for Derrick Rose, Joakim Noah, Courtney Lee, Brandon Jennings who are on the downward trend of their careers.

Same question I asked others, what was the burning need to do it this offseason? Will this add a few more wins? Will that help our hurt our chances in getting a better pick next year? Why is it that the Knicks always overpay for the table scraps after striking out on the players they really want? We wanted LeBron and ended up with Amare and MElo. This is the type of thinking that cost us 7 years of mediocrity.

The only argument I will make on this is: if we sign nobody and have no talent on the team outside of KP and Frank, and we completely bottom out, as you propose, what free agents would want to come here once we have the cap space? Also, do you think KP will be happy if we win 20 games the next two years once he can test the market? We run the risk of losing him. By remaining somewhat competitive with a young core of talent, it shows improvement to upcoming FA's, which will give us a chance in future free agency. There is a balance between tanking and being competitive in rebuilding.

You get free agents on good deals when your team is young, good, has culture and is on an upswing.

Look how Paul George wanted to sign with the Lakers despite them just being a bottom 2 team. That's because they spent the time getting the cap room and the young talent so that they will be good for many years to come.

It's not likeable personalities in the front office that are going to get us players, it's good team situations which mean talent/cap/winning potential.

Knicks right now have a lack of talent/cap/winning potential. The smart move is to tear down and build a foundation that is solid. Instead we are overpaying which is like the band aid solution.

Welpee wrote:

Sinix wrote:

SocraticBallin22 wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:95% of Knicks fans thinks the deal was dumb 100% of Atlanta fans agree.

Dion Waiters got 50mm and Hardaway 71

No way to chew it--my bet is fans will have a quick buyers remorse and well be discussing how to get rid of Hardaways contract in 2 years.

Mills overpaid so Atlanta would not match.
He did it after Waiters rejected his offer.
They want a starting level 2 guard that can give 15 points a night to pair with Ntilikina in the backcourt longterm. 25 and younger is what they want.

After Waiters, next best option was Hardaway.

The money does suck. I agree. It's a huge risk. I hope Atlanta matches, but I like we went after a guy that is young on the upswing or upward slope of his career vs going for Derrick Rose, Joakim Noah, Courtney Lee, Brandon Jennings who are on the downward trend of their careers.

Same question I asked others, what was the burning need to do it this offseason? Will this add a few more wins? Will that help our hurt our chances in getting a better pick next year? Why is it that the Knicks always overpay for the table scraps after striking out on the players they really want? We wanted LeBron and ended up with Amare and MElo. This is the type of thinking that cost us 7 years of mediocrity.

The only argument I will make on this is: if we sign nobody and have no talent on the team outside of KP and Frank, and we completely bottom out, as you propose, what free agents would want to come here once we have the cap space? Also, do you think KP will be happy if we win 20 games the next two years once he can test the market? We run the risk of losing him. By remaining somewhat competitive with a young core of talent, it shows improvement to upcoming FA's, which will give us a chance in future free agency. There is a balance between tanking and being competitive in rebuilding.

You get free agents on good deals when your team is young, good, has culture and is on an upswing.

Look how Paul George wanted to sign with the Lakers despite them just being a bottom 2 team. That's because they spent the time getting the cap room and the young talent so that they will be good for many years to come.

It's not likeable personalities in the front office that are going to get us players, it's good team situations which mean talent/cap/winning potential.

Knicks right now have a lack of talent/cap/winning potential. The smart move is to tear down and build a foundation that is solid. Instead we are overpaying which is like the band aid solution.

Yeah, and the fact that George is from Los Angeles had nothing to do with it.

Ok, lets figure this out through logic.

If the Lakers were in the same position as the Nets currently, you think Paul George wants to go to them?

SocraticBallin22 wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:95% of Knicks fans thinks the deal was dumb 100% of Atlanta fans agree.

Dion Waiters got 50mm and Hardaway 71

No way to chew it--my bet is fans will have a quick buyers remorse and well be discussing how to get rid of Hardaways contract in 2 years.

Mills overpaid so Atlanta would not match.
He did it after Waiters rejected his offer.
They want a starting level 2 guard that can give 15 points a night to pair with Ntilikina in the backcourt longterm. 25 and younger is what they want.

After Waiters, next best option was Hardaway.

The money does suck. I agree. It's a huge risk. I hope Atlanta matches, but I like we went after a guy that is young on the upswing or upward slope of his career vs going for Derrick Rose, Joakim Noah, Courtney Lee, Brandon Jennings who are on the downward trend of their careers.

Same question I asked others, what was the burning need to do it this offseason? Will this add a few more wins? Will that help our hurt our chances in getting a better pick next year? Why is it that the Knicks always overpay for the table scraps after striking out on the players they really want? We wanted LeBron and ended up with Amare and MElo. This is the type of thinking that cost us 7 years of mediocrity.

The only argument I will make on this is: if we sign nobody and have no talent on the team outside of KP and Frank, and we completely bottom out, as you propose, what free agents would want to come here once we have the cap space? Also, do you think KP will be happy if we win 20 games the next two years once he can test the market? We run the risk of losing him. By remaining somewhat competitive with a young core of talent, it shows improvement to upcoming FA's, which will give us a chance in future free agency. There is a balance between tanking and being competitive in rebuilding.

If KP was paired with Doncic next season he would forget about his heartache in a NY minute. Nah - let's get to 37 wins, then we will get the 9th pick and then..
Reset, rinse, repeat

Welpee wrote:

Sinix wrote:

Welpee wrote:

Sinix wrote:

SocraticBallin22 wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:95% of Knicks fans thinks the deal was dumb 100% of Atlanta fans agree.

Dion Waiters got 50mm and Hardaway 71

No way to chew it--my bet is fans will have a quick buyers remorse and well be discussing how to get rid of Hardaways contract in 2 years.

Mills overpaid so Atlanta would not match.
He did it after Waiters rejected his offer.
They want a starting level 2 guard that can give 15 points a night to pair with Ntilikina in the backcourt longterm. 25 and younger is what they want.

After Waiters, next best option was Hardaway.

The money does suck. I agree. It's a huge risk. I hope Atlanta matches, but I like we went after a guy that is young on the upswing or upward slope of his career vs going for Derrick Rose, Joakim Noah, Courtney Lee, Brandon Jennings who are on the downward trend of their careers.

Same question I asked others, what was the burning need to do it this offseason? Will this add a few more wins? Will that help our hurt our chances in getting a better pick next year? Why is it that the Knicks always overpay for the table scraps after striking out on the players they really want? We wanted LeBron and ended up with Amare and MElo. This is the type of thinking that cost us 7 years of mediocrity.

The only argument I will make on this is: if we sign nobody and have no talent on the team outside of KP and Frank, and we completely bottom out, as you propose, what free agents would want to come here once we have the cap space? Also, do you think KP will be happy if we win 20 games the next two years once he can test the market? We run the risk of losing him. By remaining somewhat competitive with a young core of talent, it shows improvement to upcoming FA's, which will give us a chance in future free agency. There is a balance between tanking and being competitive in rebuilding.

You get free agents on good deals when your team is young, good, has culture and is on an upswing.

Look how Paul George wanted to sign with the Lakers despite them just being a bottom 2 team. That's because they spent the time getting the cap room and the young talent so that they will be good for many years to come.

It's not likeable personalities in the front office that are going to get us players, it's good team situations which mean talent/cap/winning potential.

Knicks right now have a lack of talent/cap/winning potential. The smart move is to tear down and build a foundation that is solid. Instead we are overpaying which is like the band aid solution.

Yeah, and the fact that George is from Los Angeles had nothing to do with it.

Ok, lets figure this out through logic.

If the Lakers were in the same position as the Nets currently, you think Paul George wants to go to them?

Yeah, let's use logic: Are the Lakers good? 26-56 last season. Who are the other big name free agents clamoring to join the Lakers? You site one star who wants to go to LA who is from LA.

Now, if George get himself to the Lakers (which hasn't happened yet) and Lebron decides to go to the Lakers (Lebron makes his own culture) and Lonzo Ball (who is from LA too) becomes who we think he can become, then things change. But right now, where is this line of stars wanting to play for the Lakers?

I see you are trying to deflect here. Can you answer this?

If the Lakers were in the Nets position currently, do you believe he'd be pushing to be a Laker? No draft picks, no rookies around, no one decent or with upside on the roster?

Nalod wrote:Sign Hardaway, a starter. Lee is then tradable. very tradable asset. While Hardaway jr. may seem expensive now, what is the chance he might succeed? IN two years, many SG will hve gotten huge raises and with that kind of inflation his deal might grow to be reasonable.

The low view is "Hardaway sux, we are over paying just like always". What if "Hardaway got better, avg. 18 and moves the ball!!!, decent paremeter defender!!! With Baker, its good chemistry.
or "With the emergence of Frank, the team is playing a nice uptempo game.........which take pressure of KP to do more!!!"

But the reversion to the past is always what some of you got to. Im not busting at the seams over this deal, but there is upside, and the numbers could work itself. Also, if Lee can be part of a trade that returns someting of value or a pick than there must be value added to this free agent signing.

In three years we went from a 37 win aging clusterphuch to a very young team. Now we have to be patient and enjoy the growth. Willy, KP and Frank gives us three blue chip prospects to work with.

Er..Lee was already tradeable. While responses are often exaggerated, what you need to look at is what the Hawks were reportedly going to offer him and what we just did. His market value was 4/48 not 5/71. If we were in some fire need to fill pout putt championship contending roster you can make the case for this type of idiocy, but i guess I don't see WTF we think this buys us.

This is a typical ny sports media blow out... man the papers better get some reporters who actually do there job

Welpee wrote:

Sinix wrote:

Welpee wrote:

Sinix wrote:

Welpee wrote:

Sinix wrote:

SocraticBallin22 wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:95% of Knicks fans thinks the deal was dumb 100% of Atlanta fans agree.

Dion Waiters got 50mm and Hardaway 71

No way to chew it--my bet is fans will have a quick buyers remorse and well be discussing how to get rid of Hardaways contract in 2 years.

Mills overpaid so Atlanta would not match.
He did it after Waiters rejected his offer.
They want a starting level 2 guard that can give 15 points a night to pair with Ntilikina in the backcourt longterm. 25 and younger is what they want.

After Waiters, next best option was Hardaway.

The money does suck. I agree. It's a huge risk. I hope Atlanta matches, but I like we went after a guy that is young on the upswing or upward slope of his career vs going for Derrick Rose, Joakim Noah, Courtney Lee, Brandon Jennings who are on the downward trend of their careers.

Same question I asked others, what was the burning need to do it this offseason? Will this add a few more wins? Will that help our hurt our chances in getting a better pick next year? Why is it that the Knicks always overpay for the table scraps after striking out on the players they really want? We wanted LeBron and ended up with Amare and MElo. This is the type of thinking that cost us 7 years of mediocrity.

The only argument I will make on this is: if we sign nobody and have no talent on the team outside of KP and Frank, and we completely bottom out, as you propose, what free agents would want to come here once we have the cap space? Also, do you think KP will be happy if we win 20 games the next two years once he can test the market? We run the risk of losing him. By remaining somewhat competitive with a young core of talent, it shows improvement to upcoming FA's, which will give us a chance in future free agency. There is a balance between tanking and being competitive in rebuilding.

You get free agents on good deals when your team is young, good, has culture and is on an upswing.

Look how Paul George wanted to sign with the Lakers despite them just being a bottom 2 team. That's because they spent the time getting the cap room and the young talent so that they will be good for many years to come.

It's not likeable personalities in the front office that are going to get us players, it's good team situations which mean talent/cap/winning potential.

Knicks right now have a lack of talent/cap/winning potential. The smart move is to tear down and build a foundation that is solid. Instead we are overpaying which is like the band aid solution.

Yeah, and the fact that George is from Los Angeles had nothing to do with it.

Ok, lets figure this out through logic.

If the Lakers were in the same position as the Nets currently, you think Paul George wants to go to them?

Yeah, let's use logic: Are the Lakers good? 26-56 last season. Who are the other big name free agents clamoring to join the Lakers? You site one star who wants to go to LA who is from LA.

Now, if George get himself to the Lakers (which hasn't happened yet) and Lebron decides to go to the Lakers (Lebron makes his own culture) and Lonzo Ball (who is from LA too) becomes who we think he can become, then things change. But right now, where is this line of stars wanting to play for the Lakers?

I see you are trying to deflect here. Can you answer this?

If the Lakers were in the Nets position currently, do you believe he'd be pushing to be a Laker? No draft picks, no rookies around, no one decent or with upside on the roster?

Because the question is irrelevant. Nobody wants to go to Nets. But how does that prove being a LA native isn't a major factor in his desire to play for the Lakers? I never said it was the ONLY reason. He's not going to go to a horrible team JUST because they're in LA. Boston was reportedly interested in George and everything that you claim was so attractive about the Lakers, Boston has even more of. Why wasn't George interested in going to the Celtics?

Exactly, no one wants to go to the Nets. So if the Lakers were in the same position as the Nets, he wouldn't want to go there. Meaning it's not just the LA scenery and family in the area that are causing him to go.

They are a good situation for him in terms of young talent and cap room. Players will even go to the Cleveland if the situation is right.

nixluva wrote:What the Knicks were likely looking at is how THJ progressed and in particular when he started getting starter minutes.

DATE	  MIN	FGM-FGA	  FG%	3PM-3PA	 3P%	FTM-FTA	 FT%	REB	AST	BLK	STL	PF	TO	PTS
February  31.4	6.1-13.3  .459	2.5-6.4	 .386	2.8-3.3	 .861	3.9	2.4	0.3	0.6	1.0	1.5	17.5
March     32.3	6.4-13.5  .472	2.1-5.9	 .362	3.4-3.9	 .857	2.9	2.6	0.2	1.1	1.5	1.8	18.3
April     33.0	6.7-13.2  .506	2.0-4.8  .414	2.8-3.7	 .773	5.3	3.8	0.0	0.3	1.8	1.8	18.2

They're taking a gamble that he's about to take the next step in his career to a legit starter level.

I'd say that's a pretty good gamble !