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Jedi Mind Trick deductive reasoning......
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CrushAlot
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6/27/2017  4:20 PM
I think this is more like a beginning to understand what a really bad contract looks like in this cba and having regrets about giving them out. I hope an understanding of the cba trumps a want for triangle players, simpatico players, and players that will give up a little to get total control back.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
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HofstraBBall
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6/27/2017  4:24 PM
dacash wrote:
martin wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
Nalod wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:Thing is I don't even think its mind games. I think he is just calling it as it is. Melo wants to stay. He knows he is going into a situation where the Knicks will play a lot of youth. And will run a lot of triangle.

With KP we would just have to have something good going by the time he becomes a restricted FA. Even then the amount of,mine the Knicks can offer would be huge compared to the comp. He wont pass on that type of money until his 3rd contact. But like you said if he is the player we feel is worth that then he would be a big reason to why we are a team on the rise. He should be putting up 200 WS48 numbers.

the mind game is getting Melo motivated to adhere to the changing culture.
when you have a NTC along with the size of his deal where the last gasp of winning now attempted failed, Melo's motivation is chasing the ghosts in front of him on the all time scoring list. By painting Melo into the corner as he has there is a difference going forward.

Thus, Melo is chosing to stay, has choosen to stay over "winning" and thus has to be part of a good scenario. Melo has it in him to be a good mentor. He has to pass the ball and move. He needs look at himself as a manu ginobli type. He can still be "the man" but not every nite. Manu moves without the ball. Melo has to do that more. All star days behind him.


I think the Rose acquisition/Rose's play had a lot to do with the disappearance of Dad Melo. I am hoping Phil doesn't bring him back.


It had everything to do with it

I think it had a lot to do with it but at some point Melo gotta step up and buy into team play and be the leader he is supposed to be and set the tone. He did not

he cannot,when the team won the 54 games j kidd and others lead he followed. he is not a leader. shame too cause i like him.
you right at some point he must , but can he when he not used to dong it?

Agree Kidd was a great leader..reason why he is a great coach. You bring up a good point. Some players lead in other ways. To me, Melo took the pressure off everyone on that 54 win team. He also carried everyone that year. Reason why he was an MVP candidate. Saying Melo could not be a Kidd type leader is like knocking Kidd for not being a Melo type scorer. And his 37% shooting definitely was not. Btw. Leadership roles were also taken by Rasheed, Martin, Camby and Thomas. Not to memrion the guy we got rid of for a bag of Spanish donuts..Tyson. But rosters like that one, which put guys that can fill difgerent roles are put together by GOOD GM's and Presidents. That's their job. Not the leading scorers job.

'Knicks focus should be on players that have grown up playing soccer or cricket' - Triplethreat 8/28/2020
dacash
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6/27/2017  4:59 PM
HofstraBBall wrote:
dacash wrote:
martin wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
Nalod wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:Thing is I don't even think its mind games. I think he is just calling it as it is. Melo wants to stay. He knows he is going into a situation where the Knicks will play a lot of youth. And will run a lot of triangle.

With KP we would just have to have something good going by the time he becomes a restricted FA. Even then the amount of,mine the Knicks can offer would be huge compared to the comp. He wont pass on that type of money until his 3rd contact. But like you said if he is the player we feel is worth that then he would be a big reason to why we are a team on the rise. He should be putting up 200 WS48 numbers.

the mind game is getting Melo motivated to adhere to the changing culture.
when you have a NTC along with the size of his deal where the last gasp of winning now attempted failed, Melo's motivation is chasing the ghosts in front of him on the all time scoring list. By painting Melo into the corner as he has there is a difference going forward.

Thus, Melo is chosing to stay, has choosen to stay over "winning" and thus has to be part of a good scenario. Melo has it in him to be a good mentor. He has to pass the ball and move. He needs look at himself as a manu ginobli type. He can still be "the man" but not every nite. Manu moves without the ball. Melo has to do that more. All star days behind him.


I think the Rose acquisition/Rose's play had a lot to do with the disappearance of Dad Melo. I am hoping Phil doesn't bring him back.


It had everything to do with it

I think it had a lot to do with it but at some point Melo gotta step up and buy into team play and be the leader he is supposed to be and set the tone. He did not

he cannot,when the team won the 54 games j kidd and others lead he followed. he is not a leader. shame too cause i like him.
you right at some point he must , but can he when he not used to dong it?

Agree Kidd was a great leader..reason why he is a great coach. You bring up a good point. Some players lead in other ways. To me, Melo took the pressure off everyone on that 54 win team. He also carried everyone that year. Reason why he was an MVP candidate. Saying Melo could not be a Kidd type leader is like knocking Kidd for not being a Melo type scorer. And his 37% shooting definitely was not. Btw. Leadership roles were also taken by Rasheed, Martin, Camby and Thomas. Not to memrion the guy we got rid of for a bag of Spanish donuts..Tyson. But rosters like that one, which put guys that can fill difgerent roles are put together by GOOD GM's and Presidents. That's their job. Not the leading scorers job.


actually yes if melo is the leading scorer and highest paid player and vet on the team he was supposed to lead. he did not. he was suppose to do what kobe and jordan did, they led. he just bucked the system and couldnt lead.
Nalod
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6/27/2017  6:26 PM
Interesting hypocrisy:

Melo don't want to leave ny and take trade to Philly or Wash. Wants to be with his son.
Reports he is angling for buyout so he can join Lebron in Clev.

Which is it???? Not blaming him, blaming hyper media cycle!!!
Dude wants to be with his kid. Is he seeking a buy out? Cav's don't even have a GM/President.
Does Cav's even want him?

We all throwing all kinds of stuff out there but we don't know.
We don't know what melo wants because Melo has not told us.

meloshouldgo
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6/27/2017  7:05 PM
Nalod wrote:Interesting hypocrisy:

Melo don't want to leave ny and take trade to Philly or Wash. Wants to be with his son.
Reports he is angling for buyout so he can join Lebron in Clev.

Which is it???? Not blaming him, blaming hyper media cycle!!!
Dude wants to be with his kid. Is he seeking a buy out? Cav's don't even have a GM/President.
Does Cav's even want him?

We all throwing all kinds of stuff out there but we don't know.
We don't know what melo wants because Melo has not told us.

Er where the hale were you the last 8-10 years??? Melo wants money and attention. He is the basketball equivalent of Kim Kardashian. This hasn't changed throughout his entire career and its not going to now. Get over it.

I cannot teach anybody anything. I can only try to make them think - Socrates
Sangfroid
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6/27/2017  8:24 PM    LAST EDITED: 6/27/2017  8:39 PM
fitzfarm wrote:I think the best move if melo wants to stay is to come off the bench as the 6th man. And if he won't hustle or play defense you bench him. What FA small forward can we get to be a starter?

No, no. Keep the spotlight on Melo. He's a starter, but as a devotee of the triangle, complete with newfound passing skills, leadership and defense (DadMelo?). If there are lapses in either, then we hint at the 6th man role, to save him (from himself). If you want production, keep that carrot there.

"We are playing a game. We are playing at not playing a game..."
Nalod
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6/27/2017  9:01 PM
Sangfroid wrote:
fitzfarm wrote:I think the best move if melo wants to stay is to come off the bench as the 6th man. And if he won't hustle or play defense you bench him. What FA small forward can we get to be a starter?

No, no. Keep the spotlight on Melo. He's a starter, but as a devotee of the triangle, complete with newfound passing skills, leadership and defense (DadMelo?). If there are lapses in either, then we hint at the 6th man role, to save him (from himself). If you want production, keep that carrot there.

If he played for Pop, he lapses he gets benched. Pop pulls Kwahi out and sets him straight. Thats in a winning culture. Melo has never been coached like that before. He messes up, he can smile, look at the bench, and laugh.

Nalod
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6/27/2017  9:02 PM
meloshouldgo wrote:
Nalod wrote:Interesting hypocrisy:

Melo don't want to leave ny and take trade to Philly or Wash. Wants to be with his son.
Reports he is angling for buyout so he can join Lebron in Clev.

Which is it???? Not blaming him, blaming hyper media cycle!!!
Dude wants to be with his kid. Is he seeking a buy out? Cav's don't even have a GM/President.
Does Cav's even want him?

We all throwing all kinds of stuff out there but we don't know.
We don't know what melo wants because Melo has not told us.

Er where the hale were you the last 8-10 years??? Melo wants money and attention. He is the basketball equivalent of Kim Kardashian. This hasn't changed throughout his entire career and its not going to now. Get over it.

Im trying to be objective and converse on the hypocrisy. He'll get his money either way. The question is will be adding to his legacy or his bank account?

Knickoftime
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6/27/2017  9:11 PM
meloshouldgo wrote:
Nalod wrote:Interesting hypocrisy:

Melo don't want to leave ny and take trade to Philly or Wash. Wants to be with his son.
Reports he is angling for buyout so he can join Lebron in Clev.

Which is it???? Not blaming him, blaming hyper media cycle!!!
Dude wants to be with his kid. Is he seeking a buy out? Cav's don't even have a GM/President.
Does Cav's even want him?

We all throwing all kinds of stuff out there but we don't know.
We don't know what melo wants because Melo has not told us.

Er where the hale were you the last 8-10 years??? Melo wants money and attention. He is the basketball equivalent of Kim Kardashian. This hasn't changed throughout his entire career and its not going to now. Get over it.

Not following.

Is the money and attention grab going to Cleveland or staying in NY?

HofstraBBall
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6/27/2017  9:19 PM    LAST EDITED: 6/27/2017  9:21 PM
dacash wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
dacash wrote:
martin wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
Nalod wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:Thing is I don't even think its mind games. I think he is just calling it as it is. Melo wants to stay. He knows he is going into a situation where the Knicks will play a lot of youth. And will run a lot of triangle.

With KP we would just have to have something good going by the time he becomes a restricted FA. Even then the amount of,mine the Knicks can offer would be huge compared to the comp. He wont pass on that type of money until his 3rd contact. But like you said if he is the player we feel is worth that then he would be a big reason to why we are a team on the rise. He should be putting up 200 WS48 numbers.

the mind game is getting Melo motivated to adhere to the changing culture.
when you have a NTC along with the size of his deal where the last gasp of winning now attempted failed, Melo's motivation is chasing the ghosts in front of him on the all time scoring list. By painting Melo into the corner as he has there is a difference going forward.

Thus, Melo is chosing to stay, has choosen to stay over "winning" and thus has to be part of a good scenario. Melo has it in him to be a good mentor. He has to pass the ball and move. He needs look at himself as a manu ginobli type. He can still be "the man" but not every nite. Manu moves without the ball. Melo has to do that more. All star days behind him.


I think the Rose acquisition/Rose's play had a lot to do with the disappearance of Dad Melo. I am hoping Phil doesn't bring him back.


It had everything to do with it

I think it had a lot to do with it but at some point Melo gotta step up and buy into team play and be the leader he is supposed to be and set the tone. He did not

he cannot,when the team won the 54 games j kidd and others lead he followed. he is not a leader. shame too cause i like him.
you right at some point he must , but can he when he not used to dong it?

Agree Kidd was a great leader..reason why he is a great coach. You bring up a good point. Some players lead in other ways. To me, Melo took the pressure off everyone on that 54 win team. He also carried everyone that year. Reason why he was an MVP candidate. Saying Melo could not be a Kidd type leader is like knocking Kidd for not being a Melo type scorer. And his 37% shooting definitely was not. Btw. Leadership roles were also taken by Rasheed, Martin, Camby and Thomas. Not to memrion the guy we got rid of for a bag of Spanish donuts..Tyson. But rosters like that one, which put guys that can fill difgerent roles are put together by GOOD GM's and Presidents. That's their job. Not the leading scorers job.


actually yes if melo is the leading scorer and highest paid player and vet on the team he was supposed to lead. he did not. he was suppose to do what kobe and jordan did, they led. he just bucked the system and couldnt lead.

Sorry..didn't realize you were on that team and had an inside track to rate it's leader grades. Funny cuz his fellow team mates said that he was a leader But you probably know more. My point was that different leaders lead in different ways. Kidd was one of several vocal leaders. Melo lead by playing several levels above them.

'Knicks focus should be on players that have grown up playing soccer or cricket' - Triplethreat 8/28/2020
CrushAlot
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6/27/2017  9:23 PM
Nalod wrote:
Sangfroid wrote:
fitzfarm wrote:I think the best move if melo wants to stay is to come off the bench as the 6th man. And if he won't hustle or play defense you bench him. What FA small forward can we get to be a starter?

No, no. Keep the spotlight on Melo. He's a starter, but as a devotee of the triangle, complete with newfound passing skills, leadership and defense (DadMelo?). If there are lapses in either, then we hint at the 6th man role, to save him (from himself). If you want production, keep that carrot there.

If he played for Pop, he lapses he gets benched. Pop pulls Kwahi out and sets him straight. Thats in a winning culture. Melo has never been coached like that before. He messes up, he can smile, look at the bench, and laugh.


Unlike the Spurs, the Knicks haven't had anybody else. Melo, this late in his career still plays more minutes (and games) then Kawhi.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
HofstraBBall
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6/27/2017  9:52 PM
Nalod wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
Nalod wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:Thing is I don't even think its mind games. I think he is just calling it as it is. Melo wants to stay. He knows he is going into a situation where the Knicks will play a lot of youth. And will run a lot of triangle.

With KP we would just have to have something good going by the time he becomes a restricted FA. Even then the amount of,mine the Knicks can offer would be huge compared to the comp. He wont pass on that type of money until his 3rd contact. But like you said if he is the player we feel is worth that then he would be a big reason to why we are a team on the rise. He should be putting up 200 WS48 numbers.

the mind game is getting Melo motivated to adhere to the changing culture.
when you have a NTC along with the size of his deal where the last gasp of winning now attempted failed, Melo's motivation is chasing the ghosts in front of him on the all time scoring list. By painting Melo into the corner as he has there is a difference going forward.

Thus, Melo is chosing to stay, has choosen to stay over "winning" and thus has to be part of a good scenario. Melo has it in him to be a good mentor. He has to pass the ball and move. He needs look at himself as a manu ginobli type. He can still be "the man" but not every nite. Manu moves without the ball. Melo has to do that more. All star days behind him.

Phil most likely is trying to eliminate any excuses and complaints about dysfunction. Knicks will be committed to the triangle next year. Knicks will look to build up with youth under the triangle principals. By Phil announcing this specific direction and stating that it would be best for Melo and the Knicks to separate. Now if Melo wants to return. Melo can't complain about the offense that is being run. Or complain about Phil not looking to win now under Melo's "window". And if he doesnt buy in its on him. Can't complain about Phil making basketball observations public either. Since he chose to stay. With this I agree. I,just dont think it mind tricks to get Melo motivated.

I think this is Phil laying down the law.

Call it "mind trick", or "manipulation", or "Motivation", its all the same. Well said.

Agree. Phil is trying to build a pass first team. Culture. Guys that can pass. Hustle guys that play defense.

Ummm, wait, am i reading he is thinking of resigning Rose? Wtf? Nevermimd.

'Knicks focus should be on players that have grown up playing soccer or cricket' - Triplethreat 8/28/2020
HofstraBBall
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6/27/2017  9:56 PM
CrushAlot wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
Nalod wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:Thing is I don't even think its mind games. I think he is just calling it as it is. Melo wants to stay. He knows he is going into a situation where the Knicks will play a lot of youth. And will run a lot of triangle.

With KP we would just have to have something good going by the time he becomes a restricted FA. Even then the amount of,mine the Knicks can offer would be huge compared to the comp. He wont pass on that type of money until his 3rd contact. But like you said if he is the player we feel is worth that then he would be a big reason to why we are a team on the rise. He should be putting up 200 WS48 numbers.

the mind game is getting Melo motivated to adhere to the changing culture.
when you have a NTC along with the size of his deal where the last gasp of winning now attempted failed, Melo's motivation is chasing the ghosts in front of him on the all time scoring list. By painting Melo into the corner as he has there is a difference going forward.

Thus, Melo is chosing to stay, has choosen to stay over "winning" and thus has to be part of a good scenario. Melo has it in him to be a good mentor. He has to pass the ball and move. He needs look at himself as a manu ginobli type. He can still be "the man" but not every nite. Manu moves without the ball. Melo has to do that more. All star days behind him.


I think the Rose acquisition/Rose's play had a lot to do with the disappearance of Dad Melo. I am hoping Phil doesn't bring him back.

What's the chances, if Rose is reigned and Melo waived, Phil defenders will call it a logical move? And when they win 15 games, they will say that it was his intention from the start.

I really hope your right and Rose is long gone. Only possible move is probably getting Rubio. Think with or without Melo he would improve the movement of the ball. What people around here don't get is that after all the ball.movement you still have to have someone who can make shots. Specially when the pressure is on. And that with good defenses, you still have to have guys that can draw double teams and create their own shots. Maybe KP can turn into that guy. If a tried rebuild, nest thing is to buy out Melo. Question is, is that what KP's team is worried about and is it something he will want to be a part of.

Rosen's article the other day suggested the Knicks bring Rose back for two years.

Makes perfect sense. No ball dominant players. Guys that pass first. Rose fits that metric. Same reason he passed on Smith and Monk. At least he is not sending mixed signals. Man if he signs Rose, it proves he is bat crazy. Specially because things said about KP's camp not being a fan. Smh

'Knicks focus should be on players that have grown up playing soccer or cricket' - Triplethreat 8/28/2020
Jedi Mind Trick deductive reasoning......

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