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What if Phil cuts Melo?


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stanleybostitch
Posts: 731
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If this comes to pass, what's your take?
Addition by subtraction - get on with the youth movement
Fire Phil - this is an epic mistake
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reub
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6/26/2017  9:34 PM    LAST EDITED: 6/26/2017  9:36 PM
knicks1248 wrote:
Dagger wrote:Where's the option to send melo down to the d-league where he can learn defense and team play?

but if we traded for love, we would have to send him there as well right?


Kevin Love had a Win Shares per 48 rating of .163 last season. That's very good and well above average.
Melo had a Win Shares per 48 rating of .089 last season. That's less than average.

Oh, and before anyone says that Love's WS/48 is elevated because of playing with Lebron, it was even higher when he was in Minnesota.

AUTOADVERT
arkrud
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6/26/2017  10:10 PM
CrushAlot wrote:
Sinix wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
Sinix wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
fishmike wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
fishmike wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:It would be a win for Melo and fail for Phil. The contract, the public criticism of Melo's play, all hampered any ability the Knicks had to get something for him. Melo holds the cards. It would have been hard to make this end with the Knicks getting anything positive from it. Phil made it harder.
there is one card he no longer holds. The support of NYC. The crowds and fans have been kind to him over the years. That will quickly change if/when fans decide to turn their ire in his direction. Melo is a guy who historically needs to be wanted to courted. He needs to be needed. If you think he guts out a couple years with the boos raining down on him you have no followed his career. We will see how it plays out.
He is wanted by his teammates. I don't see fans turning their ire on him. Phil didn't get a very good response after his presser. Fire Phil chants were happening at the Barkley Center not trade Melo. I don't think Phil has the juice to turn NYC against Melo.

I do think there is a good chance that he leaves. I just think he will get his money and the Knicks will get little or nothing out of his leaving in terms of the cap or an asset coming back.

Melo's popularity with his teammates is overblown. He's clearly likable, he clearly is part of he league's fraternity and I believe the best FA any team of his has ever attracted is Kenyon Marten and that was after NJ didnt want to max him.

Every fan except JRod understands what is happening here. Teams that are focused on developing youth and team play dont keep vets who dont defend and hold the ball. You dont think he will be booed at the garden? He started hearing it last year... Phil may not be popular but once the games start fans call it like they see it.

The Knicks have not had cap space during his tenure in NY. The one time they did they got Rolo, DWill, Afflalo. Phil stated that he wanted to bring in a few players that off season. He brought in two starters. You can't do that and sign a max guy. The money hasn't been there. The Knicks have been poorly managed both in terms of draft assets and salary cap. That is on management.

Grunwald had zero cap space and draft picks, yet manage to build a 54 win team in 2 seasons

Metric shows that team wasn't as good as it's win total said. We heard it going into the playoffs that season and some dismissed the idea. Then we got bounced off early which gave it legitimacy.

Then we got another chance next season to show the 54 wins weren't a fluke. How'd we do there?

Knicks got lucky and wrongly assumed they were that good. That season was probably the worst thing that happened to the Knicks because it justified constantly targeting building a team that is good enough to make the playoffs but not good enough to make it past the first round. This is limbo or purgatory. It keeps idiot fans quiet but the longer terms fans have to wait longer and longer for a team to be built long lasting with draft picks and young talent.

It was a 2 to 3 yrs win now roster, he also signed short term contracts with the ability to have cap space after Tyson, melo, amre, jr's contract would expire in 2014, and phil took away 8 million of the cap space by adding calderon, but still had 30 mill to wrk with.

So basically you are building Grumweld up for making win now moves on a team that wasn't ready to win by any stretch of the imagination. Real great job there.

At the time the front court was Tyson, Stat and Melo. That team was supposed to win.

Melo comes to NY by stripping the team from any assets and then it is management fault that he was not surrounded with right paces to win...
And then the same scam repeats again with him resigning with NTC.
This is the greatest hypocrisy ever....
This very MSG management colluded with Melo to make a bunch of money for the owner and keep their highly paid jobs and bonuses at the expense of NY fans who get a ****ty bbal product which cannot win sht ever.
I cannot get how some fans can accept being abused this way ans still love the scammer who bring nothing but pain to whole NY fan base just for the love of $$$.

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
CrushAlot
Posts: 59764
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6/26/2017  10:24 PM
arkrud wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
Sinix wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
Sinix wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
fishmike wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
fishmike wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:It would be a win for Melo and fail for Phil. The contract, the public criticism of Melo's play, all hampered any ability the Knicks had to get something for him. Melo holds the cards. It would have been hard to make this end with the Knicks getting anything positive from it. Phil made it harder.
there is one card he no longer holds. The support of NYC. The crowds and fans have been kind to him over the years. That will quickly change if/when fans decide to turn their ire in his direction. Melo is a guy who historically needs to be wanted to courted. He needs to be needed. If you think he guts out a couple years with the boos raining down on him you have no followed his career. We will see how it plays out.
He is wanted by his teammates. I don't see fans turning their ire on him. Phil didn't get a very good response after his presser. Fire Phil chants were happening at the Barkley Center not trade Melo. I don't think Phil has the juice to turn NYC against Melo.

I do think there is a good chance that he leaves. I just think he will get his money and the Knicks will get little or nothing out of his leaving in terms of the cap or an asset coming back.

Melo's popularity with his teammates is overblown. He's clearly likable, he clearly is part of he league's fraternity and I believe the best FA any team of his has ever attracted is Kenyon Marten and that was after NJ didnt want to max him.

Every fan except JRod understands what is happening here. Teams that are focused on developing youth and team play dont keep vets who dont defend and hold the ball. You dont think he will be booed at the garden? He started hearing it last year... Phil may not be popular but once the games start fans call it like they see it.

The Knicks have not had cap space during his tenure in NY. The one time they did they got Rolo, DWill, Afflalo. Phil stated that he wanted to bring in a few players that off season. He brought in two starters. You can't do that and sign a max guy. The money hasn't been there. The Knicks have been poorly managed both in terms of draft assets and salary cap. That is on management.

Grunwald had zero cap space and draft picks, yet manage to build a 54 win team in 2 seasons

Metric shows that team wasn't as good as it's win total said. We heard it going into the playoffs that season and some dismissed the idea. Then we got bounced off early which gave it legitimacy.

Then we got another chance next season to show the 54 wins weren't a fluke. How'd we do there?

Knicks got lucky and wrongly assumed they were that good. That season was probably the worst thing that happened to the Knicks because it justified constantly targeting building a team that is good enough to make the playoffs but not good enough to make it past the first round. This is limbo or purgatory. It keeps idiot fans quiet but the longer terms fans have to wait longer and longer for a team to be built long lasting with draft picks and young talent.

It was a 2 to 3 yrs win now roster, he also signed short term contracts with the ability to have cap space after Tyson, melo, amre, jr's contract would expire in 2014, and phil took away 8 million of the cap space by adding calderon, but still had 30 mill to wrk with.

So basically you are building Grumweld up for making win now moves on a team that wasn't ready to win by any stretch of the imagination. Real great job there.

At the time the front court was Tyson, Stat and Melo. That team was supposed to win.

Melo comes to NY by stripping the team from any assets and then it is management fault that he was not surrounded with right paces to win...
And then the same scam repeats again with him resigning with NTC.
This is the greatest hypocrisy ever....
This very MSG management colluded with Melo to make a bunch of money for the owner and keep their highly paid jobs and bonuses at the expense of NY fans who get a ****ty bbal product which cannot win sht ever.
I cannot get how some fans can accept being abused this way ans still love the scammer who bring nothing but pain to whole NY fan base just for the love of $$$.

Who made the Melo trade? Who negotiated and gave Melo the del he signed in 2014?
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
arkrud
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6/26/2017  11:32 PM
CrushAlot wrote:
arkrud wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
Sinix wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
Sinix wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
fishmike wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
fishmike wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:It would be a win for Melo and fail for Phil. The contract, the public criticism of Melo's play, all hampered any ability the Knicks had to get something for him. Melo holds the cards. It would have been hard to make this end with the Knicks getting anything positive from it. Phil made it harder.
there is one card he no longer holds. The support of NYC. The crowds and fans have been kind to him over the years. That will quickly change if/when fans decide to turn their ire in his direction. Melo is a guy who historically needs to be wanted to courted. He needs to be needed. If you think he guts out a couple years with the boos raining down on him you have no followed his career. We will see how it plays out.
He is wanted by his teammates. I don't see fans turning their ire on him. Phil didn't get a very good response after his presser. Fire Phil chants were happening at the Barkley Center not trade Melo. I don't think Phil has the juice to turn NYC against Melo.

I do think there is a good chance that he leaves. I just think he will get his money and the Knicks will get little or nothing out of his leaving in terms of the cap or an asset coming back.

Melo's popularity with his teammates is overblown. He's clearly likable, he clearly is part of he league's fraternity and I believe the best FA any team of his has ever attracted is Kenyon Marten and that was after NJ didnt want to max him.

Every fan except JRod understands what is happening here. Teams that are focused on developing youth and team play dont keep vets who dont defend and hold the ball. You dont think he will be booed at the garden? He started hearing it last year... Phil may not be popular but once the games start fans call it like they see it.

The Knicks have not had cap space during his tenure in NY. The one time they did they got Rolo, DWill, Afflalo. Phil stated that he wanted to bring in a few players that off season. He brought in two starters. You can't do that and sign a max guy. The money hasn't been there. The Knicks have been poorly managed both in terms of draft assets and salary cap. That is on management.

Grunwald had zero cap space and draft picks, yet manage to build a 54 win team in 2 seasons

Metric shows that team wasn't as good as it's win total said. We heard it going into the playoffs that season and some dismissed the idea. Then we got bounced off early which gave it legitimacy.

Then we got another chance next season to show the 54 wins weren't a fluke. How'd we do there?

Knicks got lucky and wrongly assumed they were that good. That season was probably the worst thing that happened to the Knicks because it justified constantly targeting building a team that is good enough to make the playoffs but not good enough to make it past the first round. This is limbo or purgatory. It keeps idiot fans quiet but the longer terms fans have to wait longer and longer for a team to be built long lasting with draft picks and young talent.

It was a 2 to 3 yrs win now roster, he also signed short term contracts with the ability to have cap space after Tyson, melo, amre, jr's contract would expire in 2014, and phil took away 8 million of the cap space by adding calderon, but still had 30 mill to wrk with.

So basically you are building Grumweld up for making win now moves on a team that wasn't ready to win by any stretch of the imagination. Real great job there.

At the time the front court was Tyson, Stat and Melo. That team was supposed to win.

Melo comes to NY by stripping the team from any assets and then it is management fault that he was not surrounded with right paces to win...
And then the same scam repeats again with him resigning with NTC.
This is the greatest hypocrisy ever....
This very MSG management colluded with Melo to make a bunch of money for the owner and keep their highly paid jobs and bonuses at the expense of NY fans who get a ****ty bbal product which cannot win sht ever.
I cannot get how some fans can accept being abused this way ans still love the scammer who bring nothing but pain to whole NY fan base just for the love of $$$.

Who made the Melo trade? Who negotiated and gave Melo the del he signed in 2014?

NY management of course... They needed moneymaking player.
They get it at all cost. The perfect marriage of people who do not give a dam about the game and about fans of the game.

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
Knicksfan
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6/27/2017  1:24 AM
Epic mistake. Phil would prove to be nice on the draft and an useless embarrassment on trades, signings and releases.
Knicks_Fan
TripleThreat
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6/27/2017  1:39 AM
CrushAlot wrote:Melo holds the cards.


One real complication for Melo is in any buyout, he will be subject to 48 hour waivers. And waivers is done by Won/Loss record of the previous season.

With the cap rising without any smoothing option and more teams being able to carve out space and many teams likely to strike out on getting help in FA this offseason, it could very well end up a team with cap space could just put in a claim for him. A team where he doesn't want to go.

Alonzo Mourning was traded to the Raptors and simply didn't report. He ended up winning a ring with the Heat. The owners during the next major labor war had a big issue with this and this became a huge issue where the general pool of agents also got involved. If Melo is waived and inexplicably claimed, I don't think Leon Rose can just sit there and tell Melo to keep doing whatever he wants ( i.e. not report) Leon Rose does have to think about the next 10 years, the next 15 years with these owners and trying to salvage a relationship with them.

Bizarrely, Melo with all his games and trying to go House of Cards on Phil Jackson and the Knicks, this might all blow up in his face. It would be hilarious of Sacto was able to claim him and he'd be stuck with the Kings for two years. ( Talk about a city where "branding" means nothing....)

fishmike
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6/27/2017  8:43 AM
CrushAlot wrote:
fishmike wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
fishmike wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:It would be a win for Melo and fail for Phil. The contract, the public criticism of Melo's play, all hampered any ability the Knicks had to get something for him. Melo holds the cards. It would have been hard to make this end with the Knicks getting anything positive from it. Phil made it harder.
there is one card he no longer holds. The support of NYC. The crowds and fans have been kind to him over the years. That will quickly change if/when fans decide to turn their ire in his direction. Melo is a guy who historically needs to be wanted to courted. He needs to be needed. If you think he guts out a couple years with the boos raining down on him you have no followed his career. We will see how it plays out.
He is wanted by his teammates. I don't see fans turning their ire on him. Phil didn't get a very good response after his presser. Fire Phil chants were happening at the Barkley Center not trade Melo. I don't think Phil has the juice to turn NYC against Melo.

I do think there is a good chance that he leaves. I just think he will get his money and the Knicks will get little or nothing out of his leaving in terms of the cap or an asset coming back.

Melo's popularity with his teammates is overblown. He's clearly likable, he clearly is part of he league's fraternity and I believe the best FA any team of his has ever attracted is Kenyon Marten and that was after NJ didnt want to max him.

Every fan except JRod understands what is happening here. Teams that are focused on developing youth and team play dont keep vets who dont defend and hold the ball. You dont think he will be booed at the garden? He started hearing it last year... Phil may not be popular but once the games start fans call it like they see it.

The Knicks have not had cap space during his tenure in NY. The one time they did they got Rolo, DWill, Afflalo. Phil stated that he wanted to bring in a few players that off season. He brought in two starters. You can't do that and sign a max guy. The money hasn't been there. The Knicks have been poorly managed both in terms of draft assets and salary cap. That is on management.
Hey.. wasnt Melo's attraction to other marquee FAs going to be a drawing card to coming to NY? We had cap space 2 years in a row. Noah and Lopez were best players were could pay to come here. Lebron, Gasol, Aldridge, Butler, DJordan, Wade, Dragic... all FAs when Knicks had cap space and that was just the Lopez year. This is BS. Nobody is coming to play with Melo. Denver had cap space. They maxed out KMartin. But yea... ignore all the evidence and say "This is on management."

Maybe it is, but for all Melo's superfriend buddies nobody wants to play with him.

Hey, Maybe Melo say F-it and starts passing the ball. Right after Dolan sells the team. To Isiah.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
jrodmc
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6/27/2017  10:29 AM
knicks1248 wrote:
fishmike wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
fishmike wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:It would be a win for Melo and fail for Phil. The contract, the public criticism of Melo's play, all hampered any ability the Knicks had to get something for him. Melo holds the cards. It would have been hard to make this end with the Knicks getting anything positive from it. Phil made it harder.
there is one card he no longer holds. The support of NYC. The crowds and fans have been kind to him over the years. That will quickly change if/when fans decide to turn their ire in his direction. Melo is a guy who historically needs to be wanted to courted. He needs to be needed. If you think he guts out a couple years with the boos raining down on him you have no followed his career. We will see how it plays out.
He is wanted by his teammates. I don't see fans turning their ire on him. Phil didn't get a very good response after his presser. Fire Phil chants were happening at the Barkley Center not trade Melo. I don't think Phil has the juice to turn NYC against Melo.

I do think there is a good chance that he leaves. I just think he will get his money and the Knicks will get little or nothing out of his leaving in terms of the cap or an asset coming back.

Melo's popularity with his teammates is overblown. He's clearly likable, he clearly is part of he league's fraternity and I believe the best FA any team of his has ever attracted is Kenyon Marten and that was after NJ didnt want to max him.

Every fan except JRod understands what is happening here. Teams that are focused on developing youth and team play dont keep vets who dont defend and hold the ball. You dont think he will be booed at the garden? He started hearing it last year... Phil may not be popular but once the games start fans call it like they see it.

I think you under estimating melo's desire to remain a knick, he demanded a trade here, he resigned with the knicks despite being a UFA, and he demanded a NTC..

why would he up and leave now, because grand pa phil say so, or thinks he's better suited for a contender.

Phils popularity amongst fans and media is at rock bottom


No, Melo should just waive his NTC for the good of Phil's public persona, and in his next book, Zenmaster can explain how every loss, every bad contract, every idiotic press conf, dopey tweet and Charlie Rosen article was all on ToxicMelo...

Only fans like fish and those who don't bother to read giant billboards outside on draft night think Phil's popularity is based on moves about yoot and Triangleheads, when their latest anti-melo signed Pablo and Calderone and Rose and Brandon Jennings. And a broken down Noah. Alot of good that year in the lockerroom and practice had on KP with TriangleNoah, huh? Oh wait, I'm sure Noah's player/coaching got Willy on the All Rookie team, right?

Have to salvage something for dearly beloved Rich Uncle Phil.

franco12
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6/27/2017  10:34 AM
TripleThreat wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:Melo holds the cards.


One real complication for Melo is in any buyout, he will be subject to 48 hour waivers. And waivers is done by Won/Loss record of the previous season.

With the cap rising without any smoothing option and more teams being able to carve out space and many teams likely to strike out on getting help in FA this offseason, it could very well end up a team with cap space could just put in a claim for him. A team where he doesn't want to go.

Alonzo Mourning was traded to the Raptors and simply didn't report. He ended up winning a ring with the Heat. The owners during the next major labor war had a big issue with this and this became a huge issue where the general pool of agents also got involved. If Melo is waived and inexplicably claimed, I don't think Leon Rose can just sit there and tell Melo to keep doing whatever he wants ( i.e. not report) Leon Rose does have to think about the next 10 years, the next 15 years with these owners and trying to salvage a relationship with them.

Bizarrely, Melo with all his games and trying to go House of Cards on Phil Jackson and the Knicks, this might all blow up in his face. It would be hilarious of Sacto was able to claim him and he'd be stuck with the Kings for two years. ( Talk about a city where "branding" means nothing....)

I don't think anyone would claim him, and if they did, his second year is a player option. He might get bought out twice!

jrodmc
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6/27/2017  10:48 AM
franco12 wrote:
TripleThreat wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:Melo holds the cards.


One real complication for Melo is in any buyout, he will be subject to 48 hour waivers. And waivers is done by Won/Loss record of the previous season.

With the cap rising without any smoothing option and more teams being able to carve out space and many teams likely to strike out on getting help in FA this offseason, it could very well end up a team with cap space could just put in a claim for him. A team where he doesn't want to go.

Alonzo Mourning was traded to the Raptors and simply didn't report. He ended up winning a ring with the Heat. The owners during the next major labor war had a big issue with this and this became a huge issue where the general pool of agents also got involved. If Melo is waived and inexplicably claimed, I don't think Leon Rose can just sit there and tell Melo to keep doing whatever he wants ( i.e. not report) Leon Rose does have to think about the next 10 years, the next 15 years with these owners and trying to salvage a relationship with them.

Bizarrely, Melo with all his games and trying to go House of Cards on Phil Jackson and the Knicks, this might all blow up in his face. It would be hilarious of Sacto was able to claim him and he'd be stuck with the Kings for two years. ( Talk about a city where "branding" means nothing....)

I don't think anyone would claim him, and if they did, his second year is a player option. He might get bought out twice!

There you go! Bench him, buy him out twice and cut him! At least we're saving 8 mil on the trade kicker!

CrushAlot
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6/27/2017  10:51 AM
TripleThreat wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:Melo holds the cards.


One real complication for Melo is in any buyout, he will be subject to 48 hour waivers. And waivers is done by Won/Loss record of the previous season.

With the cap rising without any smoothing option and more teams being able to carve out space and many teams likely to strike out on getting help in FA this offseason, it could very well end up a team with cap space could just put in a claim for him. A team where he doesn't want to go.

Alonzo Mourning was traded to the Raptors and simply didn't report. He ended up winning a ring with the Heat. The owners during the next major labor war had a big issue with this and this became a huge issue where the general pool of agents also got involved. If Melo is waived and inexplicably claimed, I don't think Leon Rose can just sit there and tell Melo to keep doing whatever he wants ( i.e. not report) Leon Rose does have to think about the next 10 years, the next 15 years with these owners and trying to salvage a relationship with them.

Bizarrely, Melo with all his games and trying to go House of Cards on Phil Jackson and the Knicks, this might all blow up in his face. It would be hilarious of Sacto was able to claim him and he'd be stuck with the Kings for two years. ( Talk about a city where "branding" means nothing....)

I don't think anyone would pick him up. Have you checked to see which teams have the ability to absorb 54 mil over two years? I don't think Melo would mind going to the Nets but I think they will pick some guys to offer poison pill deals to (I.e. Noel).
I am not sure about the particulars of a buyout if a player doesn't clear waivers. I would assume the player would have to pay back the team he was leaving the buyout money.
Also, if there was a hint that a team would pick up Melo before he would clear waivers why wouldn't Phil just waive Melo? Getting Melo and his contract off of the cap without taking bad deals or giving up an asset would be a win for him.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
CrushAlot
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6/27/2017  10:55 AM
fishmike wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
fishmike wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
fishmike wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:It would be a win for Melo and fail for Phil. The contract, the public criticism of Melo's play, all hampered any ability the Knicks had to get something for him. Melo holds the cards. It would have been hard to make this end with the Knicks getting anything positive from it. Phil made it harder.
there is one card he no longer holds. The support of NYC. The crowds and fans have been kind to him over the years. That will quickly change if/when fans decide to turn their ire in his direction. Melo is a guy who historically needs to be wanted to courted. He needs to be needed. If you think he guts out a couple years with the boos raining down on him you have no followed his career. We will see how it plays out.
He is wanted by his teammates. I don't see fans turning their ire on him. Phil didn't get a very good response after his presser. Fire Phil chants were happening at the Barkley Center not trade Melo. I don't think Phil has the juice to turn NYC against Melo.

I do think there is a good chance that he leaves. I just think he will get his money and the Knicks will get little or nothing out of his leaving in terms of the cap or an asset coming back.

Melo's popularity with his teammates is overblown. He's clearly likable, he clearly is part of he league's fraternity and I believe the best FA any team of his has ever attracted is Kenyon Marten and that was after NJ didnt want to max him.

Every fan except JRod understands what is happening here. Teams that are focused on developing youth and team play dont keep vets who dont defend and hold the ball. You dont think he will be booed at the garden? He started hearing it last year... Phil may not be popular but once the games start fans call it like they see it.

The Knicks have not had cap space during his tenure in NY. The one time they did they got Rolo, DWill, Afflalo. Phil stated that he wanted to bring in a few players that off season. He brought in two starters. You can't do that and sign a max guy. The money hasn't been there. The Knicks have been poorly managed both in terms of draft assets and salary cap. That is on management.
Hey.. wasnt Melo's attraction to other marquee FAs going to be a drawing card to coming to NY? We had cap space 2 years in a row. Noah and Lopez were best players were could pay to come here. Lebron, Gasol, Aldridge, Butler, DJordan, Wade, Dragic... all FAs when Knicks had cap space and that was just the Lopez year. This is BS. Nobody is coming to play with Melo. Denver had cap space. They maxed out KMartin. But yea... ignore all the evidence and say "This is on management."

Maybe it is, but for all Melo's superfriend buddies nobody wants to play with him.

Hey, Maybe Melo say F-it and starts passing the ball. Right after Dolan sells the team. To Isiah.

The Knicks had cap space one year during Melo's tenure that I can recall. Phil said he wanted to bring in more than one player and told Aldridge he would be playing center that summer if he signed with the Knicks.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
Nalod
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6/27/2017  11:34 AM
CrushAlot wrote:
Sinix wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:Been saying n for a while he should do that. Cut him or ask him to stay home unless he agrees to waive the NTC unconditionally.

If Melo doesn't waive his NTC I would support benching him over buying out. F Melo.

He made a big thing about forcing the Knicks to trade assets to get him from Denver now he won't waive his NTC so we can get some assets back for him? Screw him.


He just said he wasn't going to resign in Denver and that he wanted to go to NY. Ujiri made a big thing about getting assets back. Melo wanted a deal in ny before the lockout/new cba. Melo is smart with his money. His agent was smart with his contract. I think it the public shaming of Melo was a bad move by PHil. He gave Melo all the power with contract that he gave him and paid him too much. He needed to approach the offseason in a manner where Melo might work with him on moving on. He chose to burn bridges. It is still a business and something will be worked out but expect Melo to get the better end of the deal. Phil gave him the power and later the motivation to make this difficult.

yes, contract wise the NTC gives Melo control of his direction and money. He played his cards smart leaving Denver. Fans might have wanted him to opt out and come as a free agent but that could have been a terrible business move.

fans need to stop painting Melo as not bleeding orange and blue.....That kind of thing left the building a long time ago. Knicks traded Clyde to Cavs once upon a time. Its a business.

Sinix
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6/27/2017  11:37 AM
Nalod wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
Sinix wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:Been saying n for a while he should do that. Cut him or ask him to stay home unless he agrees to waive the NTC unconditionally.

If Melo doesn't waive his NTC I would support benching him over buying out. F Melo.

He made a big thing about forcing the Knicks to trade assets to get him from Denver now he won't waive his NTC so we can get some assets back for him? Screw him.


He just said he wasn't going to resign in Denver and that he wanted to go to NY. Ujiri made a big thing about getting assets back. Melo wanted a deal in ny before the lockout/new cba. Melo is smart with his money. His agent was smart with his contract. I think it the public shaming of Melo was a bad move by PHil. He gave Melo all the power with contract that he gave him and paid him too much. He needed to approach the offseason in a manner where Melo might work with him on moving on. He chose to burn bridges. It is still a business and something will be worked out but expect Melo to get the better end of the deal. Phil gave him the power and later the motivation to make this difficult.

yes, contract wise the NTC gives Melo control of his direction and money. He played his cards smart leaving Denver. Fans might have wanted him to opt out and come as a free agent but that could have been a terrible business move.

fans need to stop painting Melo as not bleeding orange and blue.....That kind of thing left the building a long time ago. Knicks traded Clyde to Cavs once upon a time. Its a business.

Fans bring up Melo's loyalty to NY because Melo has brought it up himself in the first place. How much he loves and is loyal to NY.

Yeah well when he left Denver he made sure they were left with assets and he got them a WCF trip in a tough west.

He's lining up to leave us with no assets returning for him and only made the 2nd round once.

If this is what his loyalty leaves NY with, I'll take his snake behavior towards Denver any day.

Melo takes a sh-t all over the franchise that you root for and all you basically say is 'well we always expected him to so I can't get on his case'. Yes you can get on his case and you should!

frenchy00
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6/27/2017  1:32 PM
Did the people wanting Melo off the team watch more than a few games last season?
My goodness…no one on the team could be counted on for a needed bucket. KP couldn’t score in the post against PGs (consistently). Rose was solid but often would get a no call on a foul. Courtney Lee...OMG…remember the 3 pinter he didn’t get off because he thought the opposing coach was a player.
I could go on and on. My point is basically Phil was suppose to build around Melo and that has not happened. Knicks had space for two max players and walked away with Affalo and Lopez. Traded JR and Shumpert for peanuts (IMO JR is better than Courtney Lee). Then brings in Rose and Noah the next year.
What happen to the plan of surrounding Melo w/ talent? Phil failed tremendously at that plan and now it’s Melo’s fault???? Not only that, Phil as the Knicks head recruiter is alienating himself from NBA players. Posse comment, jabs at Melo to media are inappropriate and has not gone unnoticed to the NBA community.

Bottom line Melo stays, Phil goes. Phil has not executed any plan he has set forth. Even his new plan cannot be executed because of the NTC.

Not only will getting rid of Phil make room for a capable decision maker but also get rid of the stigma playing for the NY Knicks now have.

jrodmc
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6/27/2017  3:24 PM
Sinix wrote:
Nalod wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
Sinix wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:Been saying n for a while he should do that. Cut him or ask him to stay home unless he agrees to waive the NTC unconditionally.

If Melo doesn't waive his NTC I would support benching him over buying out. F Melo.

He made a big thing about forcing the Knicks to trade assets to get him from Denver now he won't waive his NTC so we can get some assets back for him? Screw him.


He just said he wasn't going to resign in Denver and that he wanted to go to NY. Ujiri made a big thing about getting assets back. Melo wanted a deal in ny before the lockout/new cba. Melo is smart with his money. His agent was smart with his contract. I think it the public shaming of Melo was a bad move by PHil. He gave Melo all the power with contract that he gave him and paid him too much. He needed to approach the offseason in a manner where Melo might work with him on moving on. He chose to burn bridges. It is still a business and something will be worked out but expect Melo to get the better end of the deal. Phil gave him the power and later the motivation to make this difficult.

yes, contract wise the NTC gives Melo control of his direction and money. He played his cards smart leaving Denver. Fans might have wanted him to opt out and come as a free agent but that could have been a terrible business move.

fans need to stop painting Melo as not bleeding orange and blue.....That kind of thing left the building a long time ago. Knicks traded Clyde to Cavs once upon a time. Its a business.

Fans bring up Melo's loyalty to NY because Melo has brought it up himself in the first place. How much he loves and is loyal to NY.

Yeah well when he left Denver he made sure they were left with assets and he got them a WCF trip in a tough west.

He's lining up to leave us with no assets returning for him and only made the 2nd round once.

If this is what his loyalty leaves NY with, I'll take his snake behavior towards Denver any day.

Melo takes a sh-t all over the franchise that you root for and all you basically say is 'well we always expected him to so I can't get on his case'. Yes you can get on his case and you should!


Other than Melo, who else was coming to NYC? Please enlighten us all.

What assets did he leave Denver with? They've been in hibernation mode compared to when he was there. Tell us more about Gallo, the Mayor, and Moz. Or don't, just keep beeyatching.

For the billionth time, who gave Melo his deal? Did he write up his own contract?

Melo came to a sh-t franchise and did what? Dragged it to the playoffs. Even to the second round for the first time in a decade! Did Denver get out of the first round with all those "assets"?

You manage a pantyknotting, neverending scream over how he got here and his history in Denver, but anything he did here is reduced to sh-tting on the franchise.

What kind of fan were you when we were winning? Where were you?

Booing in the front row and waving your EFF YOU MELO! foam finger??

jrodmc
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6/27/2017  3:25 PM
frenchy00 wrote:Did the people wanting Melo off the team watch more than a few games last season?
My goodness…no one on the team could be counted on for a needed bucket. KP couldn’t score in the post against PGs (consistently). Rose was solid but often would get a no call on a foul. Courtney Lee...OMG…remember the 3 pinter he didn’t get off because he thought the opposing coach was a player.
I could go on and on. My point is basically Phil was suppose to build around Melo and that has not happened. Knicks had space for two max players and walked away with Affalo and Lopez. Traded JR and Shumpert for peanuts (IMO JR is better than Courtney Lee). Then brings in Rose and Noah the next year.
What happen to the plan of surrounding Melo w/ talent? Phil failed tremendously at that plan and now it’s Melo’s fault???? Not only that, Phil as the Knicks head recruiter is alienating himself from NBA players. Posse comment, jabs at Melo to media are inappropriate and has not gone unnoticed to the NBA community.

Bottom line Melo stays, Phil goes. Phil has not executed any plan he has set forth. Even his new plan cannot be executed because of the NTC.

Not only will getting rid of Phil make room for a capable decision maker but also get rid of the stigma playing for the NY Knicks now have.


+1
Oh this is going to be good.
jrodmc
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6/27/2017  3:35 PM
Sinix wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
fishmike wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
fishmike wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:It would be a win for Melo and fail for Phil. The contract, the public criticism of Melo's play, all hampered any ability the Knicks had to get something for him. Melo holds the cards. It would have been hard to make this end with the Knicks getting anything positive from it. Phil made it harder.
there is one card he no longer holds. The support of NYC. The crowds and fans have been kind to him over the years. That will quickly change if/when fans decide to turn their ire in his direction. Melo is a guy who historically needs to be wanted to courted. He needs to be needed. If you think he guts out a couple years with the boos raining down on him you have no followed his career. We will see how it plays out.
He is wanted by his teammates. I don't see fans turning their ire on him. Phil didn't get a very good response after his presser. Fire Phil chants were happening at the Barkley Center not trade Melo. I don't think Phil has the juice to turn NYC against Melo.

I do think there is a good chance that he leaves. I just think he will get his money and the Knicks will get little or nothing out of his leaving in terms of the cap or an asset coming back.

Melo's popularity with his teammates is overblown. He's clearly likable, he clearly is part of he league's fraternity and I believe the best FA any team of his has ever attracted is Kenyon Marten and that was after NJ didnt want to max him.

Every fan except JRod understands what is happening here. Teams that are focused on developing youth and team play dont keep vets who dont defend and hold the ball. You dont think he will be booed at the garden? He started hearing it last year... Phil may not be popular but once the games start fans call it like they see it.

The Knicks have not had cap space during his tenure in NY. The one time they did they got Rolo, DWill, Afflalo. Phil stated that he wanted to bring in a few players that off season. He brought in two starters. You can't do that and sign a max guy. The money hasn't been there. The Knicks have been poorly managed both in terms of draft assets and salary cap. That is on management.

Grunwald had zero cap space and draft picks, yet manage to build a 54 win team in 2 seasons

Metric shows that team wasn't as good as it's win total said. We heard it going into the playoffs that season and some dismissed the idea. Then we got bounced off early which gave it legitimacy.

Then we got another chance next season to show the 54 wins weren't a fluke. How'd we do there?

Knicks got lucky and wrongly assumed they were that good. That season was probably the worst thing that happened to the Knicks because it justified constantly targeting building a team that is good enough to make the playoffs but not good enough to make it past the first round. This is limbo or purgatory. It keeps idiot fans quiet but the longer terms fans have to wait longer and longer for a team to be built long lasting with draft picks and young talent.

Bounced off early is game 6 in the second round? Is that a sweep by Indiana in your eyes? Getting bounced includes beating your opponent by 26 points?

Anyone following the team knew the 54 wins was smoke and mirrors and basically nothing but Melo in his prime backed up by a bunch of burned out geriatric patients and one-season wonders.

Right, because genius fans, like you and all those happy people in Philadelphia, know and embrace that the only way to win is to lose. Continually. For years.

Boo at the games, paint your face and cheer at draft night. Year after year.

Take a break, please.

CrushAlot
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6/27/2017  3:46 PM
jrodmc wrote:
frenchy00 wrote:Did the people wanting Melo off the team watch more than a few games last season?
My goodness…no one on the team could be counted on for a needed bucket. KP couldn’t score in the post against PGs (consistently). Rose was solid but often would get a no call on a foul. Courtney Lee...OMG…remember the 3 pinter he didn’t get off because he thought the opposing coach was a player.
I could go on and on. My point is basically Phil was suppose to build around Melo and that has not happened. Knicks had space for two max players and walked away with Affalo and Lopez. Traded JR and Shumpert for peanuts (IMO JR is better than Courtney Lee). Then brings in Rose and Noah the next year.
What happen to the plan of surrounding Melo w/ talent? Phil failed tremendously at that plan and now it’s Melo’s fault???? Not only that, Phil as the Knicks head recruiter is alienating himself from NBA players. Posse comment, jabs at Melo to media are inappropriate and has not gone unnoticed to the NBA community.

Bottom line Melo stays, Phil goes. Phil has not executed any plan he has set forth. Even his new plan cannot be executed because of the NTC.

Not only will getting rid of Phil make room for a capable decision maker but also get rid of the stigma playing for the NY Knicks now have.


+1
Oh this is going to be good.
Nice first post. I agree. I think you nailed it.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
y2zipper
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6/27/2017  4:35 PM
The Knicks should either buy Melo out or just waive him and eat the money. That is the only correct move.

I understand re-signing him, I even get the no-trade clause and I even understand Phil trying to change Melo and make it work. Melo isn't going to change, has never been the star to build teams around and neither he or Jackson are going to be really good free agent recruiters anytime soon. So the Knicks can either have a borderline playoff team led by Melo or a bad team with good prospects led more by Lee and Noah and featuring Porzingis. Sign me up for the second one and give me access to a top pick next year.

Phil should just come out, tell the fans it isn't working and release Melo.

What if Phil cuts Melo?

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