Jmpasq wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:I still believe strongly that Josh Jackson--- alone is worth Kp. If a team is adding great assets with him -- such as Chris and Bledsoe-- it's an avenue I'd go down . We have Willy G for the c position-- Jackson is the athletic playmaker that can eventually bring it all together. While I like kp he's not a great fundamental player-- he takes many bad shots and is not a willing passer. I don't care what Knicks fans say-- phil was right there-- but if it's fluid -- he should really think about it. I don't think kp is the piece to take us to the promised land-- he's a nice piece-- but not that piece

I agree with everything your saying. KP has picked up a ton of bad habits on offense and it stems from Melo. On top of that unless he is at center his value is a lot lower. He doesn't have the foot speed to defend on the perimeter and he doesn't have the post game inside for the 4-1 motion. I still would like 1 more asset though

When Porzingis is about to begin his 4th season in the NBA, he'll be the same age as Patrick Ewing was when he was about to start his first.

If KP had played remotely like he's played in the NBA at Kentucky, Duke or NC in either of the last 2 years, he'd far and away the top prospect teams would have tanked for in either of the last two drafts.

To want to move him because he doesn't have "the post game" is sheer ignorance.

Jmpasq wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:I still believe strongly that Josh Jackson--- alone is worth Kp. If a team is adding great assets with him -- such as Chris and Bledsoe-- it's an avenue I'd go down . We have Willy G for the c position-- Jackson is the athletic playmaker that can eventually bring it all together. While I like kp he's not a great fundamental player-- he takes many bad shots and is not a willing passer. I don't care what Knicks fans say-- phil was right there-- but if it's fluid -- he should really think about it. I don't think kp is the piece to take us to the promised land-- he's a nice piece-- but not that piece

I agree with everything your saying. KP has picked up a ton of bad habits on offense and it stems from Melo. On top of that unless he is at center his value is a lot lower. He doesn't have the foot speed to defend on the perimeter and he doesn't have the post game inside for the 4-1 motion. I still would like 1 more asset though

A real analysis from you two? Amazing that Porzingis even gets any time on the floor. Might need some DL time this year and we can let Kornet take over for him.

So let me see...It is obvious that Jackson is better than KP, but the Suns will give us Jackson, Chris, and maybe Bledsoe because...?

TripleThreat wrote:

jskinny35 wrote:If Josh Jackson and Bender are available for KP - do you do that deal? I preferred Chriss when the pre-draft deal was being thrown around - but think it's unlikely Phx would have parted with him. Bender's been sluggish so far, but is young and sometimes Euros take longer to develop. I don't have an answer myself, but am concerned with the outcome of KP-Phil going forward. Once JJ plays summer league, I doubt he would remain available in a trade. What do you guys think?

When the Suns just had the 4 pick, one could argue KP was worth more than that pick alone ( by how much, that's a bit of a push/pull)

Once the pick has been realized, Jackson is likely worth more now.

Part of the problem is other teams now know Zinger is likely to be traded, and the Knicks are not in a leverage position, so they will wait and let the price drive down. When people here said Jackson drove down Melo's trade value, I don't see it, I don't agree. But in this case, if someone said Jackson screwed this up, I'd say he did. If Jackson had a silent timeline ( like a month) where if KP didn't respond to any contact, then he should have traded him right then and there, no hesitation, long before the draft.

Before other teams caught full wind of the problems, he should have dumped him. Utah did this to Deron Williams. It was only going to get ugly and uglier, so they dumped him fast.

Part of the problem is Zinger is intentionally also driving down his trade value.

Why would a team trade for him now, when his price could slash a good bit a few months from now?

This is what happens when you get a 70+ year old with no previous front office experience running a team for the first time who already had bad blood/enemies around the league.

KP price is not going down...it may not be he 2 number one picks and crowder and brown, but when the entire league is checking in on making a trade ....Phil just set the parameters....KP still has 2 years under control....that is Phils leverage but if he goes into the following season the package will be diminished. But still strong.

KP brother is blowing smoke...most players out of their rookie deal will sign with the team....that is their first big max 5 yr contract....unless the team tells them to go fish for a deal then matches...

The only driving down of KP value is injury or if his play falls off....no one gets a young budding unique talent on a rookie deal in a trade...no one....so when one comes available teams make a move. If Booker did not have that 70 pt game and a couple of other high scoring games...we'd be welcoming him to NY right now...

When u have a commodity that people want the price never goes down unless you accept a lower price..

Jmpasq wrote:
I said 1 asset, and I didnt say Jackson is better than KP , not yet anyway. KP is an All Star level talent but I have 3 big problems with him
1. I dont believe he will stay healthy
2. The crap he pulled this summer is a very bad sign long term. Half the board is dismissing this but he is a 2nd year player.There is no precedence for this level of Diva this early in a career. If he has a problem with management go in and talk to him like a man don't run away and not pick up the phone, WTF is that. That's the Knicks savior the guy who acts like a teenage girl when things get tough,
3. Finally this isnt the 1990's his position has been devalued greatly. Its a guard and wings league. KP's only value to the Knicks is at center. Do you see any centers dominating today?

Simple question:

If all those things are true, particularly the third, why does Phoenix want him and want to give the Knicks Jackson and Bledsoe or take on Noah for the privilage?

ekstarks94 wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

jskinny35 wrote:If Josh Jackson and Bender are available for KP - do you do that deal? I preferred Chriss when the pre-draft deal was being thrown around - but think it's unlikely Phx would have parted with him. Bender's been sluggish so far, but is young and sometimes Euros take longer to develop. I don't have an answer myself, but am concerned with the outcome of KP-Phil going forward. Once JJ plays summer league, I doubt he would remain available in a trade. What do you guys think?

When the Suns just had the 4 pick, one could argue KP was worth more than that pick alone ( by how much, that's a bit of a push/pull)

Once the pick has been realized, Jackson is likely worth more now.

Part of the problem is other teams now know Zinger is likely to be traded, and the Knicks are not in a leverage position, so they will wait and let the price drive down. When people here said Jackson drove down Melo's trade value, I don't see it, I don't agree. But in this case, if someone said Jackson screwed this up, I'd say he did. If Jackson had a silent timeline ( like a month) where if KP didn't respond to any contact, then he should have traded him right then and there, no hesitation, long before the draft.

Before other teams caught full wind of the problems, he should have dumped him. Utah did this to Deron Williams. It was only going to get ugly and uglier, so they dumped him fast.

Part of the problem is Zinger is intentionally also driving down his trade value.

Why would a team trade for him now, when his price could slash a good bit a few months from now?

This is what happens when you get a 70+ year old with no previous front office experience running a team for the first time who already had bad blood/enemies around the league.

KP price is not going down...it may not be he 2 number one picks and crowder and brown, but when the entire league is checking in on making a trade ....Phil just set the parameters....KP still has 2 years under control....that is Phils leverage but if he goes into the following season the package will be diminished. But still strong.

KP brother is blowing smoke...most players out of their rookie deal will sign with the team....that is their first big max 5 yr contract....unless the team tells them to go fish for a deal then matches...

The only driving down of KP value is injury or if his play falls off....no one gets a young budding unique talent on a rookie deal in a trade...no one....so when one comes available teams make a move. If Booker did not have that 70 pt game and a couple of other high scoring games...we'd be welcoming him to NY right now...

When u have a commodity that people want the price never goes down unless you accept a lower price..

KP is gonna ball out next season.

Vmart wrote:
I don't think Knicks fans are expecting KP to be MVP just yet. My feeling is that KP lacked the necessary improvements to become the team leader. The gap between his peer Anthony-Towns has increased and I feel that is the true origin of KPs frustration.

Whoever said that was going to or was supposed to happen in year 2?

Because he has to be on the same schedule as Towns (who btw, doesn't play defense and whose team won the same number of games as the Knicks) or else we have reason to worry?

PHX picked 3rd this year --- why wouldn't their pick be a potentially high pick next year -- especially if potentially we got back say Jackson/TJ Warren/Bledsoe plus next years pick unprotected?

Phoenix could keep Booker and add KP for a BIG 2 -- maybe we add in a C-Lee to make #s work.

I think that is solid value both ways.