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Knicks pick Frank N at #8
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BigDaddyG
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6/25/2017  11:16 PM
GustavBahler wrote:
TheGame wrote:I watched the highlights from the 2016 under-18 game. The kid can play. If he plays like this in the NBA, then we definitely picked the right guard.

Had some nice euro 3s. A few had someone in his face, would be interested to see more of those clips. Frank does a good job of keeping his feet moving on D, moving laterally, and knowing when to poke the ball away from the ball carrier without giving up his position.

Has a nice stutter step, but it needs to get quicker IMO, and a good first step to the rim. Didnt see much in the way of creating for others though, hope thats a point of emphasis because right now he looks much more like a wing player.

He had to carry that team and was way more aggressive looking for his shot than usual. He's really afept at finding the open man, especially off the pick and roll.

Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
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GustavBahler
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6/25/2017  11:37 PM    LAST EDITED: 6/25/2017  11:37 PM
BigDaddyG wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
TheGame wrote:I watched the highlights from the 2016 under-18 game. The kid can play. If he plays like this in the NBA, then we definitely picked the right guard.

Had some nice euro 3s. A few had someone in his face, would be interested to see more of those clips. Frank does a good job of keeping his feet moving on D, moving laterally, and knowing when to poke the ball away from the ball carrier without giving up his position.

Has a nice stutter step, but it needs to get quicker IMO, and a good first step to the rim. Didnt see much in the way of creating for others though, hope thats a point of emphasis because right now he looks much more like a wing player.

He had to carry that team and was way more aggressive looking for his shot than usual. He's really afept at finding the open man, especially off the pick and roll.

Some decent passing there, what struck me was how he used his wingspan to make that cross court pass behind the arc, off balance. I like that he stays in the play after the pass, as the video pointed out.

What...is... this.. Pick...and...Roll, you speak of? Seriously, I will be very dissapointed if this "Hybrid Triangle" runs among the fewest P&Rs again this season. Looks like Frank would benefit from it. I know KP and Willy can. That would be a welcome change, and show some flexibility in their thinking.

nixluva
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6/26/2017  1:31 AM    LAST EDITED: 6/26/2017  1:32 AM
GustavBahler wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
TheGame wrote:I watched the highlights from the 2016 under-18 game. The kid can play. If he plays like this in the NBA, then we definitely picked the right guard.

Had some nice euro 3s. A few had someone in his face, would be interested to see more of those clips. Frank does a good job of keeping his feet moving on D, moving laterally, and knowing when to poke the ball away from the ball carrier without giving up his position.

Has a nice stutter step, but it needs to get quicker IMO, and a good first step to the rim. Didnt see much in the way of creating for others though, hope thats a point of emphasis because right now he looks much more like a wing player.

He had to carry that team and was way more aggressive looking for his shot than usual. He's really afept at finding the open man, especially off the pick and roll.

Some decent passing there, what struck me was how he used his wingspan to make that cross court pass behind the arc, off balance. I like that he stays in the play after the pass, as the video pointed out.

What...is... this.. Pick...and...Roll, you speak of? Seriously, I will be very dissapointed if this "Hybrid Triangle" runs among the fewest P&Rs again this season. Looks like Frank would benefit from it. I know KP and Willy can. That would be a welcome change, and show some flexibility in their thinking.

The technical difference between a Drag Screen, Dribble Hand Off and PnR is minor. The Knicks use PnR as part of the Early Offense but Drag Screens and Dribble Hand Offs are used in the Triangle more often. Don't expect the Knicks to be a top PnR team in the NBA.

You know who else doesn't use much PnR? Golden State. They use PnR less than the Knicks.


https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-beautiful-chaos-of-the-warriors-offense/

GustavBahler
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6/26/2017  2:48 AM
nixluva wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
TheGame wrote:I watched the highlights from the 2016 under-18 game. The kid can play. If he plays like this in the NBA, then we definitely picked the right guard.

Had some nice euro 3s. A few had someone in his face, would be interested to see more of those clips. Frank does a good job of keeping his feet moving on D, moving laterally, and knowing when to poke the ball away from the ball carrier without giving up his position.

Has a nice stutter step, but it needs to get quicker IMO, and a good first step to the rim. Didnt see much in the way of creating for others though, hope thats a point of emphasis because right now he looks much more like a wing player.

He had to carry that team and was way more aggressive looking for his shot than usual. He's really afept at finding the open man, especially off the pick and roll.

Some decent passing there, what struck me was how he used his wingspan to make that cross court pass behind the arc, off balance. I like that he stays in the play after the pass, as the video pointed out.

What...is... this.. Pick...and...Roll, you speak of? Seriously, I will be very dissapointed if this "Hybrid Triangle" runs among the fewest P&Rs again this season. Looks like Frank would benefit from it. I know KP and Willy can. That would be a welcome change, and show some flexibility in their thinking.

The technical difference between a Drag Screen, Dribble Hand Off and PnR is minor. The Knicks use PnR as part of the Early Offense but Drag Screens and Dribble Hand Offs are used in the Triangle more often. Don't expect the Knicks to be a top PnR team in the NBA.

You know who else doesn't use much PnR? Golden State. They use PnR less than the Knicks.


https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-beautiful-chaos-of-the-warriors-offense/

Don't care about Golden state. They have 3-4 future HOFers in the starting lineup who can get their own shot without any help. Knicks dont. Knicks ran among the fewest P&R's in the league and it led in part to KP having less of an effect on the offense.

There is no good reason why a simple P&R cant be part of the offense. Another reason why they ran so few was because Rose called his own number most of the season. Hopefully Frank/Willy and KP will be allowed to run it from time to time. It still works.

nixluva
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6/26/2017  10:02 AM
GustavBahler wrote:
nixluva wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
TheGame wrote:I watched the highlights from the 2016 under-18 game. The kid can play. If he plays like this in the NBA, then we definitely picked the right guard.

Had some nice euro 3s. A few had someone in his face, would be interested to see more of those clips. Frank does a good job of keeping his feet moving on D, moving laterally, and knowing when to poke the ball away from the ball carrier without giving up his position.

Has a nice stutter step, but it needs to get quicker IMO, and a good first step to the rim. Didnt see much in the way of creating for others though, hope thats a point of emphasis because right now he looks much more like a wing player.

He had to carry that team and was way more aggressive looking for his shot than usual. He's really afept at finding the open man, especially off the pick and roll.

Some decent passing there, what struck me was how he used his wingspan to make that cross court pass behind the arc, off balance. I like that he stays in the play after the pass, as the video pointed out.

What...is... this.. Pick...and...Roll, you speak of? Seriously, I will be very dissapointed if this "Hybrid Triangle" runs among the fewest P&Rs again this season. Looks like Frank would benefit from it. I know KP and Willy can. That would be a welcome change, and show some flexibility in their thinking.

The technical difference between a Drag Screen, Dribble Hand Off and PnR is minor. The Knicks use PnR as part of the Early Offense but Drag Screens and Dribble Hand Offs are used in the Triangle more often. Don't expect the Knicks to be a top PnR team in the NBA.

You know who else doesn't use much PnR? Golden State. They use PnR less than the Knicks.


https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-beautiful-chaos-of-the-warriors-offense/

Don't care about Golden state. They have 3-4 future HOFers in the starting lineup who can get their own shot without any help. Knicks dont. Knicks ran among the fewest P&R's in the league and it led in part to KP having less of an effect on the offense.

There is no good reason why a simple P&R cant be part of the offense. Another reason why they ran so few was because Rose called his own number most of the season. Hopefully Frank/Willy and KP will be allowed to run it from time to time. It still works.

So basically you didn't read the article😡 The GSW use Tons of SCREENS, Dribble Hand Offs and Cuts rather than PnR! The Knicks offense is similar to the Warriors in that way. KP can and will get Plenty of great touches despite the Knicks not running a ton of PnR. And as I said they DO run PnR just not reliant on it.

GustavBahler
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6/26/2017  10:25 AM    LAST EDITED: 6/26/2017  10:51 AM
nixluva wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
nixluva wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
TheGame wrote:I watched the highlights from the 2016 under-18 game. The kid can play. If he plays like this in the NBA, then we definitely picked the right guard.

Had some nice euro 3s. A few had someone in his face, would be interested to see more of those clips. Frank does a good job of keeping his feet moving on D, moving laterally, and knowing when to poke the ball away from the ball carrier without giving up his position.

Has a nice stutter step, but it needs to get quicker IMO, and a good first step to the rim. Didnt see much in the way of creating for others though, hope thats a point of emphasis because right now he looks much more like a wing player.

He had to carry that team and was way more aggressive looking for his shot than usual. He's really afept at finding the open man, especially off the pick and roll.

Some decent passing there, what struck me was how he used his wingspan to make that cross court pass behind the arc, off balance. I like that he stays in the play after the pass, as the video pointed out.

What...is... this.. Pick...and...Roll, you speak of? Seriously, I will be very dissapointed if this "Hybrid Triangle" runs among the fewest P&Rs again this season. Looks like Frank would benefit from it. I know KP and Willy can. That would be a welcome change, and show some flexibility in their thinking.

The technical difference between a Drag Screen, Dribble Hand Off and PnR is minor. The Knicks use PnR as part of the Early Offense but Drag Screens and Dribble Hand Offs are used in the Triangle more often. Don't expect the Knicks to be a top PnR team in the NBA.

You know who else doesn't use much PnR? Golden State. They use PnR less than the Knicks.


https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-beautiful-chaos-of-the-warriors-offense/

Don't care about Golden state. They have 3-4 future HOFers in the starting lineup who can get their own shot without any help. Knicks dont. Knicks ran among the fewest P&R's in the league and it led in part to KP having less of an effect on the offense.

There is no good reason why a simple P&R cant be part of the offense. Another reason why they ran so few was because Rose called his own number most of the season. Hopefully Frank/Willy and KP will be allowed to run it from time to time. It still works.

So basically you didn't read the article😡 The GSW use Tons of SCREENS, Dribble Hand Offs and Cuts rather than PnR! The Knicks offense is similar to the Warriors in that way. KP can and will get Plenty of great touches despite the Knicks not running a ton of PnR. And as I said they DO run PnR just not reliant on it.

Thought that was the bulk of you wanted to share from that article. You can name another 20 ways the Knicks share the rock instead of the P&R, for whatever reason, almost none of them had KP rolling to the rim on a regular basis.Mostly I saw KP going to the rim for rebounds, put backs, and occasionally rolling to the rim hoping Rose would cough up the ball.

The P&R is a quick and easy way to get KP rolling to the rim. Thats what you want, your 7'3 center driving to the rim, scaring the crap out of the other team. And you want the guy setting the pick to make KP's defender work harder. Edit: Got lost in all those screens there for a moment. lol.

I saw KP having to try and take his man off the dribble from the arc because no one was trying to set up anything for him in the paint. KP has shown that its an effective weapon. Saying they run other screens is not a valid reason to run it less than almost every other team. Knicks were near the bottom of the league in scoring in the paint last season with a 7'3 mobile center. The abscence of a P&R in the arsenal is partly to blame.

martin
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6/26/2017  10:35 AM
GustavBahler wrote:Thought that was the bulk of you wanted to share from that article. You can name another 20 ways the Knicks share the rock instead of the P&R, for whatever reason, almost none of them had KP rolling to the rim on a regular basis.Mostly I saw KP going to the rim for rebounds, put backs, and occasionally rolling to the rim hoping Rose would cough up the ball.

The P&R is a quick and easy way to get KP rolling to the rim. Thats what you want, your 7'3 center driving to the rim, scaring the crap out of the other team. And you want the guy setting the pick to make KP's defender work harder.

I saw KP having to try and take his man off the dribble from the arc because no one was trying to set up anything for him in the paint. KP has shown that its an effective weapon. Saying they run other screens is not a valid reason to run it less than almost every other team. Knicks were near the bottom of the league in scoring in the paint last season with a 7'3 mobile center. The abscence of a P&R in the arsenal is partly to blame.

KP is not good at setting picks and didn't even set picks that were moderately effective until late in the same and they were sporadic at best. Just isn't and he is more comfortable fading out, that's just who he is at this point. Willy is the opposite.

Can't force something that is not there, just like KP post play.

And it was compounded by Rose's suck ass play as a PG.

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GustavBahler
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6/26/2017  10:45 AM
martin wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:Thought that was the bulk of you wanted to share from that article. You can name another 20 ways the Knicks share the rock instead of the P&R, for whatever reason, almost none of them had KP rolling to the rim on a regular basis.Mostly I saw KP going to the rim for rebounds, put backs, and occasionally rolling to the rim hoping Rose would cough up the ball.

The P&R is a quick and easy way to get KP rolling to the rim. Thats what you want, your 7'3 center driving to the rim, scaring the crap out of the other team. And you want the guy setting the pick to make KP's defender work harder.

I saw KP having to try and take his man off the dribble from the arc because no one was trying to set up anything for him in the paint. KP has shown that its an effective weapon. Saying they run other screens is not a valid reason to run it less than almost every other team. Knicks were near the bottom of the league in scoring in the paint last season with a 7'3 mobile center. The abscence of a P&R in the arsenal is partly to blame.

KP is not good at setting picks and didn't even set picks that were moderately effective until late in the same and they were sporadic at best. Just isn't and he is more comfortable fading out, that's just who he is at this point. Willy is the opposite.

Can't force something that is not there, just like KP post play.

And it was compounded by Rose's suck ass play as a PG.

That takes practice. Ive seen KP run an effective P&R. As he bulks up, better able to absorb contact, he'll get better. Cant have him being almost exclusively a perimeter player, not at 7'3. KP needs a good up and under move as well. Balanced attack.

nixluva
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6/26/2017  10:59 AM
GustavBahler wrote:
nixluva wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
nixluva wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
TheGame wrote:I watched the highlights from the 2016 under-18 game. The kid can play. If he plays like this in the NBA, then we definitely picked the right guard.

Had some nice euro 3s. A few had someone in his face, would be interested to see more of those clips. Frank does a good job of keeping his feet moving on D, moving laterally, and knowing when to poke the ball away from the ball carrier without giving up his position.

Has a nice stutter step, but it needs to get quicker IMO, and a good first step to the rim. Didnt see much in the way of creating for others though, hope thats a point of emphasis because right now he looks much more like a wing player.

He had to carry that team and was way more aggressive looking for his shot than usual. He's really afept at finding the open man, especially off the pick and roll.

Some decent passing there, what struck me was how he used his wingspan to make that cross court pass behind the arc, off balance. I like that he stays in the play after the pass, as the video pointed out.

What...is... this.. Pick...and...Roll, you speak of? Seriously, I will be very dissapointed if this "Hybrid Triangle" runs among the fewest P&Rs again this season. Looks like Frank would benefit from it. I know KP and Willy can. That would be a welcome change, and show some flexibility in their thinking.

The technical difference between a Drag Screen, Dribble Hand Off and PnR is minor. The Knicks use PnR as part of the Early Offense but Drag Screens and Dribble Hand Offs are used in the Triangle more often. Don't expect the Knicks to be a top PnR team in the NBA.

You know who else doesn't use much PnR? Golden State. They use PnR less than the Knicks.


https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-beautiful-chaos-of-the-warriors-offense/

Don't care about Golden state. They have 3-4 future HOFers in the starting lineup who can get their own shot without any help. Knicks dont. Knicks ran among the fewest P&R's in the league and it led in part to KP having less of an effect on the offense.

There is no good reason why a simple P&R cant be part of the offense. Another reason why they ran so few was because Rose called his own number most of the season. Hopefully Frank/Willy and KP will be allowed to run it from time to time. It still works.

So basically you didn't read the article😡 The GSW use Tons of SCREENS, Dribble Hand Offs and Cuts rather than PnR! The Knicks offense is similar to the Warriors in that way. KP can and will get Plenty of great touches despite the Knicks not running a ton of PnR. And as I said they DO run PnR just not reliant on it.

Thought that was the bulk of you wanted to share from that article. You can name another 20 ways the Knicks share the rock instead of the P&R, for whatever reason, almost none of them had KP rolling to the rim on a regular basis.Mostly I saw KP going to the rim for rebounds, put backs, and occasionally rolling to the rim hoping Rose would cough up the ball.

The P&R is a quick and easy way to get KP rolling to the rim. Thats what you want, your 7'3 center driving to the rim, scaring the crap out of the other team. And you want the guy setting the pick to make KP's defender work harder.

I saw KP having to try and take his man off the dribble from the arc because no one was trying to set up anything for him in the paint. KP has shown that its an effective weapon. Saying they run other screens is not a valid reason to run it less than almost every other team. Knicks were near the bottom of the league in scoring in the paint last season with a 7'3 mobile center. The abscence of a P&R in the arsenal is partly to blame.


PnR isn't the only way that KP can get great looks at the rim. It's one way but there are many other ways KP gets the ball and can get great shots. I bring up the Warriors because they show how you can have a great offense not based on PnR. Kerr is basically running aspects of the Triangle minus the Side Triangle Post action.

GSW uses many of the same screens that you see in the Triangle. They just don't use the Post aspects nearly as much as you see in the Triangle. Jeff has been doing the same thing. He's not using the post feed as much but using the spacing to run the Cuts and Screens. If you think about it and just remember you didn't see a lot of Side Triangle Post scoring under Jeff. They'd use it depending on who the Post player was, but many times they didn't actually use the post player but rather ran a cut around that post player.

So Earl Spread PnR or Drag Screens and Triangle Actions after that. This is pretty much what the offense is. Later in the season the Knicks started to really get the hang of Jeff's Triangle Motion Offense Hybrid.

GustavBahler
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6/26/2017  11:15 AM
Thanks for taking the time to post this. I watched it, saw KP doing little work in the paint. He used some screens to get him some open jumpers, but nothing that really got him going to the paint. Some transition buckets as well.

P&R is also a good way to get the other team in foul trouble. KP needs to get to the line more. Im not suggesting they do the bulk of the scoring this way, but enough to make the offense less predictable.

Didnt Fisher let the team run more P&R, less Triangle, and didnt they start to play better? I will see if I can find an article about that. Kind of fuzzy on that.

Uptown
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6/26/2017  11:28 AM
GustavBahler wrote:Thanks for taking the time to post this. I watched it, saw KP doing little work in the paint. He used some screens to get him some open jumpers, but nothing that really got him going to the paint. Some transition buckets as well.

P&R is also a good way to get the other team in foul trouble. KP needs to get to the line more. Im not suggesting they do the bulk of the scoring this way, but enough to make the offense less predictable.

Didnt Fisher let the team run more P&R, less Triangle, and didnt they start to play better? I will see if I can find an article about that. Kind of fuzzy on that.

And you see what happened to Fisher as a result?!

fishmike
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6/26/2017  11:34 AM
Uptown wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:Thanks for taking the time to post this. I watched it, saw KP doing little work in the paint. He used some screens to get him some open jumpers, but nothing that really got him going to the paint. Some transition buckets as well.

P&R is also a good way to get the other team in foul trouble. KP needs to get to the line more. Im not suggesting they do the bulk of the scoring this way, but enough to make the offense less predictable.

Didnt Fisher let the team run more P&R, less Triangle, and didnt they start to play better? I will see if I can find an article about that. Kind of fuzzy on that.

And you see what happened to Fisher as a result?!

it got him in bed with player's wives?
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GustavBahler
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6/26/2017  11:36 AM
Uptown wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:Thanks for taking the time to post this. I watched it, saw KP doing little work in the paint. He used some screens to get him some open jumpers, but nothing that really got him going to the paint. Some transition buckets as well.

P&R is also a good way to get the other team in foul trouble. KP needs to get to the line more. Im not suggesting they do the bulk of the scoring this way, but enough to make the offense less predictable.

Didnt Fisher let the team run more P&R, less Triangle, and didnt they start to play better? I will see if I can find an article about that. Kind of fuzzy on that.

And you see what happened to Fisher as a result?!

That part I remember! Its not ball stopping, players are passing to each other. Really not sure why its such a no-no. Would love to hear an in depth explanation from Phil for his aversion to that play. Thats another article I will try to find.

nixluva
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6/26/2017  11:50 AM
GustavBahler wrote:
Uptown wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:Thanks for taking the time to post this. I watched it, saw KP doing little work in the paint. He used some screens to get him some open jumpers, but nothing that really got him going to the paint. Some transition buckets as well.

P&R is also a good way to get the other team in foul trouble. KP needs to get to the line more. Im not suggesting they do the bulk of the scoring this way, but enough to make the offense less predictable.

Didnt Fisher let the team run more P&R, less Triangle, and didnt they start to play better? I will see if I can find an article about that. Kind of fuzzy on that.

And you see what happened to Fisher as a result?!

That part I remember! Its not ball stopping, players are passing to each other. Really not sure why its such a no-no. Would love to hear an in depth explanation from Phil for his aversion to that play. Thats another article I will try to find.


As I said the Knicks did use the PnR or PnP more than the Warriors and the reason they don't run it to a higher degree is that the other stuff they run gets more players moving as opposed getting out of the way so a PnR can be effective. The GSW's don't really use PnR but use other means to get movement to the hoop. The Knicks do the same thing using Cuts and screens to get players in motion right at the basket.

The GSW offense is about Screens and cuts. Sure they have Steph and KD able to go ISO if necessary but MOST of what they do is within the flow of the offense. That's what the Triangle is and why the Knicks will continue to use Off Ball Motion to a high degree. A little more PnR won't hurt but don't expect a heavy dose. The Triangle allows more players to touch the ball in particular post players. Those post players have multiple targets as players cut and move around them. This is why Phil is loading up on guys that move, catch and shoot at a high level.

GustavBahler
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6/26/2017  11:54 AM
nixluva wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
Uptown wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:Thanks for taking the time to post this. I watched it, saw KP doing little work in the paint. He used some screens to get him some open jumpers, but nothing that really got him going to the paint. Some transition buckets as well.

P&R is also a good way to get the other team in foul trouble. KP needs to get to the line more. Im not suggesting they do the bulk of the scoring this way, but enough to make the offense less predictable.

Didnt Fisher let the team run more P&R, less Triangle, and didnt they start to play better? I will see if I can find an article about that. Kind of fuzzy on that.

And you see what happened to Fisher as a result?!

That part I remember! Its not ball stopping, players are passing to each other. Really not sure why its such a no-no. Would love to hear an in depth explanation from Phil for his aversion to that play. Thats another article I will try to find.


As I said the Knicks did use the PnR or PnP more than the Warriors and the reason they don't run it to a higher degree is that the other stuff they run gets more players moving as opposed getting out of the way so a PnR can be effective. The GSW's don't really use PnR but use other means to get movement to the hoop. The Knicks do the same thing using Cuts and screens to get players in motion right at the basket.

The GSW offense is about Screens and cuts. Sure they have Steph and KD able to go ISO if necessary but MOST of what they do is within the flow of the offense. That's what the Triangle is and why the Knicks will continue to use Off Ball Motion to a high degree. A little more PnR won't hurt but don't expect a heavy dose. The Triangle allows more players to touch the ball in particular post players. Those post players have multiple targets as players cut and move around them. This is why Phil is loading up on guys that move, catch and shoot at a high level.

Dont expect them to be a P&R heavy team either. Just want to see it more. Its a quick, easy, way to get KP going, other players as well.

fishmike
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6/26/2017  12:21 PM
GustavBahler wrote:
nixluva wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
Uptown wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:Thanks for taking the time to post this. I watched it, saw KP doing little work in the paint. He used some screens to get him some open jumpers, but nothing that really got him going to the paint. Some transition buckets as well.

P&R is also a good way to get the other team in foul trouble. KP needs to get to the line more. Im not suggesting they do the bulk of the scoring this way, but enough to make the offense less predictable.

Didnt Fisher let the team run more P&R, less Triangle, and didnt they start to play better? I will see if I can find an article about that. Kind of fuzzy on that.

And you see what happened to Fisher as a result?!

That part I remember! Its not ball stopping, players are passing to each other. Really not sure why its such a no-no. Would love to hear an in depth explanation from Phil for his aversion to that play. Thats another article I will try to find.


As I said the Knicks did use the PnR or PnP more than the Warriors and the reason they don't run it to a higher degree is that the other stuff they run gets more players moving as opposed getting out of the way so a PnR can be effective. The GSW's don't really use PnR but use other means to get movement to the hoop. The Knicks do the same thing using Cuts and screens to get players in motion right at the basket.

The GSW offense is about Screens and cuts. Sure they have Steph and KD able to go ISO if necessary but MOST of what they do is within the flow of the offense. That's what the Triangle is and why the Knicks will continue to use Off Ball Motion to a high degree. A little more PnR won't hurt but don't expect a heavy dose. The Triangle allows more players to touch the ball in particular post players. Those post players have multiple targets as players cut and move around them. This is why Phil is loading up on guys that move, catch and shoot at a high level.

Dont expect them to be a P&R heavy team either. Just want to see it more. Its a quick, easy, way to get KP going, other players as well.

I would run it with Willy all day. Dude sets a great and bruising screen and is an excellent passer. I would run KP off screens and just get him in a shooting rhythm.
fishmike - Making UltimateKnicks great again
GustavBahler
Posts: 32321
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6/26/2017  12:54 PM
fishmike wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
nixluva wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
Uptown wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:Thanks for taking the time to post this. I watched it, saw KP doing little work in the paint. He used some screens to get him some open jumpers, but nothing that really got him going to the paint. Some transition buckets as well.

P&R is also a good way to get the other team in foul trouble. KP needs to get to the line more. Im not suggesting they do the bulk of the scoring this way, but enough to make the offense less predictable.

Didnt Fisher let the team run more P&R, less Triangle, and didnt they start to play better? I will see if I can find an article about that. Kind of fuzzy on that.

And you see what happened to Fisher as a result?!

That part I remember! Its not ball stopping, players are passing to each other. Really not sure why its such a no-no. Would love to hear an in depth explanation from Phil for his aversion to that play. Thats another article I will try to find.


As I said the Knicks did use the PnR or PnP more than the Warriors and the reason they don't run it to a higher degree is that the other stuff they run gets more players moving as opposed getting out of the way so a PnR can be effective. The GSW's don't really use PnR but use other means to get movement to the hoop. The Knicks do the same thing using Cuts and screens to get players in motion right at the basket.

The GSW offense is about Screens and cuts. Sure they have Steph and KD able to go ISO if necessary but MOST of what they do is within the flow of the offense. That's what the Triangle is and why the Knicks will continue to use Off Ball Motion to a high degree. A little more PnR won't hurt but don't expect a heavy dose. The Triangle allows more players to touch the ball in particular post players. Those post players have multiple targets as players cut and move around them. This is why Phil is loading up on guys that move, catch and shoot at a high level.

Dont expect them to be a P&R heavy team either. Just want to see it more. Its a quick, easy, way to get KP going, other players as well.

I would run it with Willy all day. Dude sets a great and bruising screen and is an excellent passer. I would run KP off screens and just get him in a shooting rhythm.

Spot on, Willy does run it well, and sets some mean screens. I saw more screens set this season, than I did in a long time, like this century. It didn't matter who was coaching, really weird. That, and no one was ever cutting.

As I tried to explain upthread (rather poorly) setting frequent screens, picks, also makes the other team expend more energy trying to fight through them. O'Quinn sets a mean pick as well. Noah too, when healthy. Hope we see more of everything next season.It could be a team strength. Will be harder if Rose is back, and back to calling his own number.

nixluva
Posts: 54053
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6/26/2017  1:49 PM
GustavBahler wrote:
fishmike wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
nixluva wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
Uptown wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:Thanks for taking the time to post this. I watched it, saw KP doing little work in the paint. He used some screens to get him some open jumpers, but nothing that really got him going to the paint. Some transition buckets as well.

P&R is also a good way to get the other team in foul trouble. KP needs to get to the line more. Im not suggesting they do the bulk of the scoring this way, but enough to make the offense less predictable.

Didnt Fisher let the team run more P&R, less Triangle, and didnt they start to play better? I will see if I can find an article about that. Kind of fuzzy on that.

And you see what happened to Fisher as a result?!

That part I remember! Its not ball stopping, players are passing to each other. Really not sure why its such a no-no. Would love to hear an in depth explanation from Phil for his aversion to that play. Thats another article I will try to find.


As I said the Knicks did use the PnR or PnP more than the Warriors and the reason they don't run it to a higher degree is that the other stuff they run gets more players moving as opposed getting out of the way so a PnR can be effective. The GSW's don't really use PnR but use other means to get movement to the hoop. The Knicks do the same thing using Cuts and screens to get players in motion right at the basket.

The GSW offense is about Screens and cuts. Sure they have Steph and KD able to go ISO if necessary but MOST of what they do is within the flow of the offense. That's what the Triangle is and why the Knicks will continue to use Off Ball Motion to a high degree. A little more PnR won't hurt but don't expect a heavy dose. The Triangle allows more players to touch the ball in particular post players. Those post players have multiple targets as players cut and move around them. This is why Phil is loading up on guys that move, catch and shoot at a high level.

Dont expect them to be a P&R heavy team either. Just want to see it more. Its a quick, easy, way to get KP going, other players as well.

I would run it with Willy all day. Dude sets a great and bruising screen and is an excellent passer. I would run KP off screens and just get him in a shooting rhythm.

Spot on, Willy does run it well, and sets some mean screens. I saw more screens set this season, than I did in a long time, like this century. It didn't matter who was coaching, really weird. That, and no one was ever cutting.

As I tried to explain upthread (rather poorly) setting frequent screens, picks, also makes the other team expend more energy trying to fight through them. O'Quinn sets a mean pick as well. Noah too, when healthy. Hope we see more of everything next season.It could be a team strength. Will be harder if Rose is back, and back to calling his own number.


This is why I actually am not too sure that the Rose stuff is ever going to happen. Summer League is going to tell Phil a lot about what he has and if any of these kids can give the team what they need at guard then Rose has no shot to get re-signed. His lack of vision and passing is just not conducive to better execution. I really don't think we need Rose. Hopefully Phil comes to that conclusion as well.
CrushAlot
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6/26/2017  3:52 PM
Amico Hoops saying Rubio is still on the block. Mentions Sign and trade with the Knicks for DRose.
http://amicohoops.net/report-wolves-remain-intent-on-moving-rubio/
I've seen scant proof that a majestic aura trumps a sound plan, but maybe that's just because I wasn't looking at Phil Jackson... Seth Rosenthal 2014
martin
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6/26/2017  4:14 PM
CrushAlot wrote:Amico Hoops saying Rubio is still on the block. Mentions Sign and trade with the Knicks for DRose.
http://amicohoops.net/report-wolves-remain-intent-on-moving-rubio/

Can't tell how much cap space Twolves have but Rose for Rubio doesn't make sense from Minny side of thing; they want to get rid of Rubio cause he can't shoot... and Rose is the answer?

I think Minny targeting Lee for Rubio IF they can also get Lowry/Hill/Jrue Holiday in offseason.

Small line up PG (who can space and pass), Lee, Butler, Wiggins, Towns is nice.

Or, if Minny gets PG, how about Lee/KOQ for Rubio and 2018 first rounder?

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