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Why to draft Frank
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Welpee
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6/16/2017  10:53 AM
BigDaddyG wrote:
Paris907 wrote:The league has and Willa ways be built around stars. Phil and Riley had them by the bucketful. You can have a great passing game but if you're not passing to A curry, a Lebron, KD, Kyrie what's the point. These teams average 115 ppl. So great you've got a scorer in Porzingis (who an increasing # of folks say will bolt to a winning franchise)yet if frank N ends up being Evan Turner or a "nice" two way guard, we lost a chance in a deep draft to secure a star compliment to KP. Monk and Smith have potential star power. Frank N...not so much.

Who are these potential stars? They all have flaws. Monk can easily be a Lou Williams clone. I agree Smith has talent, but the Marbury, Francis comparisons don't do him any favors. Nitty stacks up just as well as any of those guys.
I agree. Demarcus Cousins and Michael Beasley were said to have maturity issues prior to the draft and it turned out to be true. We need to pay attention to the red flags we keep hearing about with Smith and his attitude. I guess it's not always the case, but most players remain who they were in college personality wise.
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fishmike
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6/16/2017  11:40 AM
Welpee wrote:
nykshaknbake wrote:Wouldn't cry if we got him, but from what I read he's not exactly lighting it up at the tournament he's in now. A bit of a red flag, along with what else we know. His lack of explosiveness and strength. With our history he's a guy who won't be any good for at least a year or 2 and we'll trade for peanuts to a team that will see him produce for them.
You do realize he's 18 years old playing against grown men, right? If I'm not mistaken, KP's stats weren't eye popping either. Didn't he average like 10 ppg?
Exactly... he's 18 and playing in a the finals with men... and he's been up and down. He had a couple bad games followed by a couple excellent games. He gets minutes because he plays mistake free ball.

He is my favorite as well... young dynamic 2 way player with PG skills who can guard 3 position? Those are the blocks that winning teams are built on.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
newyorknewyork
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6/16/2017  11:58 AM
This is a link to the league Frank N plays for.
http://www.eurobasket.com/France/basketball.asp

He is the youngest player in the pro league and one of around 5-6 players that are under 20 in this league.
Has participated at the pro level for 2 years now so he has been playing with grown men from 20-33 for 2 yrs starting at the age of 17.
His team went to the finals and last last yr as well while he was on it. He hardly got playing time as coaches want veterans to win. But he gained that experience.
Plays behind 27 yr old Erving Walker and 29 yr old A.J Slaughter.
The team he is facing in the championship has one player under the age of 23(22 yr old SG reserve who is balling in the finals)
He has started in the finals over Walker and put up 13-4-3 and 0 TOs in 23 mins last game for the W.
Was horrible in the first game though putting up 2-2-1 and 1 TO in 19mins

He moved up to the pro league after he lead France to the Euro under 18 championship. http://www.fiba.com/europe/u18/2016
Putting up 21pts 4rebs 9ast in the Semi, and 31pts in the Finals.http://www.fiba.com/europe/u18/2016/news/mvp-ntilikina-headlines-all-star-five
Was named best player of the Euro under 18 tournament.

Prior to this
2015 U18 stats
http://www.eurobasket.com/France/basketball-National-Team.asp?Age=18&Year=2015
2014 U16 stats
http://www.eurobasket.com/France/basketball-National-Team.asp?Age=16&Year=2014

The question is how much does playing in a Pro league vs grown men where he is expected to contribute to winning and will get treated the same way rookies do in the NBA help his growth over playing 30 mins in a college setting? Based on what he is doing now at 18 yrs old though as the youngest player in the league. Starting and getting meaningful mins in Finals games. In the same league 2 years from now he would probably be MVP of the league and become the Lebron James of it. Though that level of comp isn't close to the NBA level, but for an 18 yr old it seems solid.

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nyknickzingis
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6/16/2017  12:22 PM
Ntilikina has defensive potential. At his best in a few years, he would be able to defend 3, 2 and 1. You could probably move him position to position.
I don't think he's at all a drive and kick guard or pick and roll guard you can build the system around.
For sure, the first year or two, you are getting a role player on offense.

The question is what do you get in his prime. I think that is the tough part to answer.

But every good winning team in league history has had a defensive ace that can guard multiple positions. Ntilikina has that potential. I'm not even sure he is a starting PG, he could be a starting 2 that moves over and defends the toughest perimeter assignment from 3/2/1.

Look at Dray Green. He didn't have much offensive potential. The defense the willingness to pass is what made him a great superstar like role player. Nti if we draft him, should be seen as a player that will not be a franchise point guard or the one that the offense is built around. Instead as the player who is going to change the way the team can defend, the type of player that will possibly evolve into a superstar role player like many championsip teams have.

All that said, I think it's much more sensible to take the safer pick like Monk if he's on the board as well (which I'm not sure he will be). If Monk is on the board at 8, I take him over Nti. I like both players, but Nti's upside is all based on potential and defensive impact that could or could not translate. I think Monk is immediately going to bring the offense and with hard work could be a big time scorer in the league.

fishmike
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6/16/2017  12:26 PM
newyorknewyork wrote:This is a link to the league Frank N plays for.
http://www.eurobasket.com/France/basketball.asp

He is the youngest player in the pro league and one of around 5-6 players that are under 20 in this league.
Has participated at the pro level for 2 years now so he has been playing with grown men from 20-33 for 2 yrs starting at the age of 17.
His team went to the finals and last last yr as well while he was on it. He hardly got playing time as coaches want veterans to win. But he gained that experience.
Plays behind 27 yr old Erving Walker and 29 yr old A.J Slaughter.
The team he is facing in the championship has one player under the age of 23(22 yr old SG reserve who is balling in the finals)
He has started in the finals over Walker and put up 13-4-3 and 0 TOs in 23 mins last game for the W.
Was horrible in the first game though putting up 2-2-1 and 1 TO in 19mins

He moved up to the pro league after he lead France to the Euro under 18 championship. http://www.fiba.com/europe/u18/2016
Putting up 21pts 4rebs 9ast in the Semi, and 31pts in the Finals.http://www.fiba.com/europe/u18/2016/news/mvp-ntilikina-headlines-all-star-five
Was named best player of the Euro under 18 tournament.

Prior to this
2015 U18 stats
http://www.eurobasket.com/France/basketball-National-Team.asp?Age=18&Year=2015
2014 U16 stats
http://www.eurobasket.com/France/basketball-National-Team.asp?Age=16&Year=2014

The question is how much does playing in a Pro league vs grown men where he is expected to contribute to winning and will get treated the same way rookies do in the NBA help his growth over playing 30 mins in a college setting? Based on what he is doing now at 18 yrs old though as the youngest player in the league. Starting and getting meaningful mins in Finals games. In the same league 2 years from now he would probably be MVP of the league and become the Lebron James of it. Though that level of comp isn't close to the NBA level, but for an 18 yr old it seems solid.

great post and perspective. Ntilikina already has 2 years of pro ball under his belt. We saw how this translated with KP and Willy. All things being equal give me Frank. The two way dimension playing in front of KP/Willy is just too much pass on
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Kemet
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6/16/2017  12:59 PM
Its a NO-Brainer .... we have a defensive starting SG Lee, plus 9 out of 10 we will have to resign Rose for less money in the FA market for veteran experience. Selecting a young potential combo-guard with passing-skills in Frank Nitty to come off the bench Tandem with Holiday gives us defense/offense in the backcourt.
Young Frank Nitty combo-guard defense (Shaun Livingston) are a diamond in the ruff to have coming off the bench, we will be lucky if Frank is there at the 8th pick.
We have a player like Monk in Holiday.

The Knicks have 3 picks in the draft to get PG and SF ....

newyorknewyork
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6/16/2017  1:23 PM
fishmike wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:This is a link to the league Frank N plays for.
http://www.eurobasket.com/France/basketball.asp

He is the youngest player in the pro league and one of around 5-6 players that are under 20 in this league.
Has participated at the pro level for 2 years now so he has been playing with grown men from 20-33 for 2 yrs starting at the age of 17.
His team went to the finals and last last yr as well while he was on it. He hardly got playing time as coaches want veterans to win. But he gained that experience.
Plays behind 27 yr old Erving Walker and 29 yr old A.J Slaughter.
The team he is facing in the championship has one player under the age of 23(22 yr old SG reserve who is balling in the finals)
He has started in the finals over Walker and put up 13-4-3 and 0 TOs in 23 mins last game for the W.
Was horrible in the first game though putting up 2-2-1 and 1 TO in 19mins

He moved up to the pro league after he lead France to the Euro under 18 championship. http://www.fiba.com/europe/u18/2016
Putting up 21pts 4rebs 9ast in the Semi, and 31pts in the Finals.http://www.fiba.com/europe/u18/2016/news/mvp-ntilikina-headlines-all-star-five
Was named best player of the Euro under 18 tournament.

Prior to this
2015 U18 stats
http://www.eurobasket.com/France/basketball-National-Team.asp?Age=18&Year=2015
2014 U16 stats
http://www.eurobasket.com/France/basketball-National-Team.asp?Age=16&Year=2014

The question is how much does playing in a Pro league vs grown men where he is expected to contribute to winning and will get treated the same way rookies do in the NBA help his growth over playing 30 mins in a college setting? Based on what he is doing now at 18 yrs old though as the youngest player in the league. Starting and getting meaningful mins in Finals games. In the same league 2 years from now he would probably be MVP of the league and become the Lebron James of it. Though that level of comp isn't close to the NBA level, but for an 18 yr old it seems solid.

great post and perspective. Ntilikina already has 2 years of pro ball under his belt. We saw how this translated with KP and Willy. All things being equal give me Frank. The two way dimension playing in front of KP/Willy is just too much pass on

The thing is I don't think the viewpoint from either side is wrong. It really comes down to the players making it happen. There are tons of examples for either side. But Knicks67 said it best. We are all tired of the drama and relying on a star to come save us and make everything happen for us. I want to be secure in that foundation of high IQ, unselfish team players who put in effort on defense is in place first and foremost.

But the thing about Franky is he checks off all those boxes yet still has potential to be an elite talent. Developing better handling comes with practice. Hitting the gym and adding muscle around the 6'5 frame 190pds 7'1 wing span at 18 yrs old so he can finish better around the paint is doable. But things he already comes equipped with is a lot harder to find today.

https://vote.nba.com/en Vote for your Knicks.
fishmike
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6/16/2017  1:58 PM
newyorknewyork wrote:
fishmike wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:This is a link to the league Frank N plays for.
http://www.eurobasket.com/France/basketball.asp

He is the youngest player in the pro league and one of around 5-6 players that are under 20 in this league.
Has participated at the pro level for 2 years now so he has been playing with grown men from 20-33 for 2 yrs starting at the age of 17.
His team went to the finals and last last yr as well while he was on it. He hardly got playing time as coaches want veterans to win. But he gained that experience.
Plays behind 27 yr old Erving Walker and 29 yr old A.J Slaughter.
The team he is facing in the championship has one player under the age of 23(22 yr old SG reserve who is balling in the finals)
He has started in the finals over Walker and put up 13-4-3 and 0 TOs in 23 mins last game for the W.
Was horrible in the first game though putting up 2-2-1 and 1 TO in 19mins

He moved up to the pro league after he lead France to the Euro under 18 championship. http://www.fiba.com/europe/u18/2016
Putting up 21pts 4rebs 9ast in the Semi, and 31pts in the Finals.http://www.fiba.com/europe/u18/2016/news/mvp-ntilikina-headlines-all-star-five
Was named best player of the Euro under 18 tournament.

Prior to this
2015 U18 stats
http://www.eurobasket.com/France/basketball-National-Team.asp?Age=18&Year=2015
2014 U16 stats
http://www.eurobasket.com/France/basketball-National-Team.asp?Age=16&Year=2014

The question is how much does playing in a Pro league vs grown men where he is expected to contribute to winning and will get treated the same way rookies do in the NBA help his growth over playing 30 mins in a college setting? Based on what he is doing now at 18 yrs old though as the youngest player in the league. Starting and getting meaningful mins in Finals games. In the same league 2 years from now he would probably be MVP of the league and become the Lebron James of it. Though that level of comp isn't close to the NBA level, but for an 18 yr old it seems solid.

great post and perspective. Ntilikina already has 2 years of pro ball under his belt. We saw how this translated with KP and Willy. All things being equal give me Frank. The two way dimension playing in front of KP/Willy is just too much pass on

The thing is I don't think the viewpoint from either side is wrong. It really comes down to the players making it happen. There are tons of examples for either side. But Knicks67 said it best. We are all tired of the drama and relying on a star to come save us and make everything happen for us. I want to be secure in that foundation of high IQ, unselfish team players who put in effort on defense is in place first and foremost.

But the thing about Franky is he checks off all those boxes yet still has potential to be an elite talent. Developing better handling comes with practice. Hitting the gym and adding muscle around the 6'5 frame 190pds 7'1 wing span at 18 yrs old so he can finish better around the paint is doable. But things he already comes equipped with is a lot harder to find today.

I have a lot of faith that we get this right. Its the only part of this org I 100% believe in. I am sure we have a good draft. So if Ntilikina, Smith Jr and Monk are all on the board at 8 I am confident we take the right guy. Mitchell isnt impossible there either. I dont believe Kenard is in play. Possible Issac drops but I dont really see that.

I agree though... Frank checks all the boxes, including despite being very young might be the most NBA ready

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
StarksEwing1
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6/16/2017  2:04 PM
fishmike wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
fishmike wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:This is a link to the league Frank N plays for.
http://www.eurobasket.com/France/basketball.asp

He is the youngest player in the pro league and one of around 5-6 players that are under 20 in this league.
Has participated at the pro level for 2 years now so he has been playing with grown men from 20-33 for 2 yrs starting at the age of 17.
His team went to the finals and last last yr as well while he was on it. He hardly got playing time as coaches want veterans to win. But he gained that experience.
Plays behind 27 yr old Erving Walker and 29 yr old A.J Slaughter.
The team he is facing in the championship has one player under the age of 23(22 yr old SG reserve who is balling in the finals)
He has started in the finals over Walker and put up 13-4-3 and 0 TOs in 23 mins last game for the W.
Was horrible in the first game though putting up 2-2-1 and 1 TO in 19mins

He moved up to the pro league after he lead France to the Euro under 18 championship. http://www.fiba.com/europe/u18/2016
Putting up 21pts 4rebs 9ast in the Semi, and 31pts in the Finals.http://www.fiba.com/europe/u18/2016/news/mvp-ntilikina-headlines-all-star-five
Was named best player of the Euro under 18 tournament.

Prior to this
2015 U18 stats
http://www.eurobasket.com/France/basketball-National-Team.asp?Age=18&Year=2015
2014 U16 stats
http://www.eurobasket.com/France/basketball-National-Team.asp?Age=16&Year=2014

The question is how much does playing in a Pro league vs grown men where he is expected to contribute to winning and will get treated the same way rookies do in the NBA help his growth over playing 30 mins in a college setting? Based on what he is doing now at 18 yrs old though as the youngest player in the league. Starting and getting meaningful mins in Finals games. In the same league 2 years from now he would probably be MVP of the league and become the Lebron James of it. Though that level of comp isn't close to the NBA level, but for an 18 yr old it seems solid.

great post and perspective. Ntilikina already has 2 years of pro ball under his belt. We saw how this translated with KP and Willy. All things being equal give me Frank. The two way dimension playing in front of KP/Willy is just too much pass on

The thing is I don't think the viewpoint from either side is wrong. It really comes down to the players making it happen. There are tons of examples for either side. But Knicks67 said it best. We are all tired of the drama and relying on a star to come save us and make everything happen for us. I want to be secure in that foundation of high IQ, unselfish team players who put in effort on defense is in place first and foremost.

But the thing about Franky is he checks off all those boxes yet still has potential to be an elite talent. Developing better handling comes with practice. Hitting the gym and adding muscle around the 6'5 frame 190pds 7'1 wing span at 18 yrs old so he can finish better around the paint is doable. But things he already comes equipped with is a lot harder to find today.

I have a lot of faith that we get this right. Its the only part of this org I 100% believe in. I am sure we have a good draft. So if Ntilikina, Smith Jr and Monk are all on the board at 8 I am confident we take the right guy. Mitchell isnt impossible there either. I dont believe Kenard is in play. Possible Issac drops but I dont really see that.

I agree though... Frank checks all the boxes, including despite being very young might be the most NBA ready

agreed fish. Look i wasnt happy we fell to 8 mostly because i wanted fox. However we are lucky that its a pretty strong draft. If you are in the top 10 chances are you will get a good player which isnt always the case in most drafts. Also a top guy usually falls too so you never know
newyorker4ever
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6/16/2017  2:14 PM
BRIGGS wrote:Ill be the first one to say even 3 weeks ago I was like "pass". High dribble TO machine who looked like he couldnt separate from a slow foreign guy

But I keep in mind some of the really good PG's that are simply not mature enough physically yet at 18 and then 2-3 years later --different players.

From watching continual tape--heres a few takes. He thinks the game he knows angles his jumpshot form has improved drastically from 206-2017. He actually looks like he can be a weapon from 3. He has long smooth strides. His length makes him a potential defensive terror--and with body control those long arms will help him be a stat suffer and finish at the rim. Does he have the strength and explosion of DEnnis Smith--no. Will he be as good as DS year 1? Probably not. But will he be a winning player---I think he can and thats what we want. At 18 with a 7-1 wingspan--he could end up 6-7/6-8 and even if he stays at 6-4 ish thats plenty tall for the PG. I think the more you watch and look through some immature warts the more you can see what they "thought" they might get with Jerian Grant. He can shoot now and he will get even better shooting as he gets stronger--Jerian Grant cant shoot.

Well i think it's now safe to come out and say that it sure does look like Frank is the guy that the Knicks want most, so it's a little late to now come on here and say you like him and his game and that you would be good with us drafting him at #8.

newyorker4ever
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6/16/2017  2:16 PM
nixluva wrote:
EnySpree wrote:You guys just described why I don't want this French Kid. His motor sucks.... I think guys only want him cuz draft express keeps saying the Knicks should draft him. I won't cry if we do draft him, but if I turn out to be right about him I'm going to roast him everyday.

I want a guy that puts the FEAR OF GOD in teams when he gets the ball. I don't get that vibe from Nitty. The lack of first step burst concerns me. Nitty's gonna be fine in a team concept. I don't see much bust potential just not a high ceiling.

I don't know if you were able to watch his game yesterday but some Knicks fans that were able to watch it said that they saw that burst that people didn't think he had in that game yesterday.

newyorker4ever
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6/16/2017  2:26 PM
fitzfarm wrote:I think you have to take into consideration what frenchy frank at 18 is doing vs grown men opposed to the other kids. First off he is starting for the French team and the other day he scored 13 pts in 25 minutes vs again grown professional men. Like KP in Europe they dont play the young guys a lot of minutes... he is hands down the best defensive pg in the draft.. he's got a really nice looking jumper and uses his 7'1 wing span really well on both ends. Is he explosive like smith no, but he sure is a better defender and if we are making KP the main man we need players to compliment KP's game... Frenchy is our pick esp if Gaines tells Phil to take him ...the only player I take over frenchy is Isaac, And there is less then 10 percent chance he's there at 8 .

If we pick monk that means he, blew them away in the work out. Same with smith, although I see him going before us as well smith is not a good defender... do we need another bad defensive pg?

I'd be thrilled if we scored another first rd pick

Best draft would be

8th Frenchy

12th Mitchell

44th frank mason

58 th johan B

Rotation

Frenchy,baker,mason
Mitchell,holiday,baker
Melo,lance,kuz
Willy,johan,ndor
KP,plumlee,Willy

I think Phil signs that kid from Columbia that looks like Toni kucoc, as a undrafted FA

The hope is melo accepts a trade but I just don't see that happening.. I don't see rose coming back.

French and Mitchell are interchangeable at the 1 and 2 both defensive juggernots backed up by two other defensive studs in baker and holiday...

Our guard defense would be awesome if we had Frank and Mitchell back there but i think i'd rather pair one of them with a better 3 point shooter like a Kennard.

newyorker4ever
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6/16/2017  2:39 PM    LAST EDITED: 6/16/2017  2:42 PM
fishmike wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
fishmike wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:This is a link to the league Frank N plays for.
http://www.eurobasket.com/France/basketball.asp

He is the youngest player in the pro league and one of around 5-6 players that are under 20 in this league.
Has participated at the pro level for 2 years now so he has been playing with grown men from 20-33 for 2 yrs starting at the age of 17.
His team went to the finals and last last yr as well while he was on it. He hardly got playing time as coaches want veterans to win. But he gained that experience.
Plays behind 27 yr old Erving Walker and 29 yr old A.J Slaughter.
The team he is facing in the championship has one player under the age of 23(22 yr old SG reserve who is balling in the finals)
He has started in the finals over Walker and put up 13-4-3 and 0 TOs in 23 mins last game for the W.
Was horrible in the first game though putting up 2-2-1 and 1 TO in 19mins

He moved up to the pro league after he lead France to the Euro under 18 championship. http://www.fiba.com/europe/u18/2016
Putting up 21pts 4rebs 9ast in the Semi, and 31pts in the Finals.http://www.fiba.com/europe/u18/2016/news/mvp-ntilikina-headlines-all-star-five
Was named best player of the Euro under 18 tournament.

Prior to this
2015 U18 stats
http://www.eurobasket.com/France/basketball-National-Team.asp?Age=18&Year=2015
2014 U16 stats
http://www.eurobasket.com/France/basketball-National-Team.asp?Age=16&Year=2014

The question is how much does playing in a Pro league vs grown men where he is expected to contribute to winning and will get treated the same way rookies do in the NBA help his growth over playing 30 mins in a college setting? Based on what he is doing now at 18 yrs old though as the youngest player in the league. Starting and getting meaningful mins in Finals games. In the same league 2 years from now he would probably be MVP of the league and become the Lebron James of it. Though that level of comp isn't close to the NBA level, but for an 18 yr old it seems solid.

great post and perspective. Ntilikina already has 2 years of pro ball under his belt. We saw how this translated with KP and Willy. All things being equal give me Frank. The two way dimension playing in front of KP/Willy is just too much pass on

The thing is I don't think the viewpoint from either side is wrong. It really comes down to the players making it happen. There are tons of examples for either side. But Knicks67 said it best. We are all tired of the drama and relying on a star to come save us and make everything happen for us. I want to be secure in that foundation of high IQ, unselfish team players who put in effort on defense is in place first and foremost.

But the thing about Franky is he checks off all those boxes yet still has potential to be an elite talent. Developing better handling comes with practice. Hitting the gym and adding muscle around the 6'5 frame 190pds 7'1 wing span at 18 yrs old so he can finish better around the paint is doable. But things he already comes equipped with is a lot harder to find today.

I have a lot of faith that we get this right. Its the only part of this org I 100% believe in. I am sure we have a good draft. So if Ntilikina, Smith Jr and Monk are all on the board at 8 I am confident we take the right guy. Mitchell isnt impossible there either. I dont believe Kenard is in play. Possible Issac drops but I dont really see that.

I agree though... Frank checks all the boxes, including despite being very young might be the most NBA ready

If there's one thing our front office has shown us we can trust it's our drafting or should i say that it's Gaines. I'm gonna trust the decisions he makes for us in the draft until he shows me i can't trust him any more. I know some will point to the J.Grant decision but if you go back and look at that draft and the players that were still sitting there at #19 you'll see there wasn't very strong options left. I'm also not sure how much Gaines had to do with that pick either.

meloshouldgo
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6/16/2017  2:50 PM
newyorker4ever wrote:
fishmike wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
fishmike wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:This is a link to the league Frank N plays for.
http://www.eurobasket.com/France/basketball.asp

He is the youngest player in the pro league and one of around 5-6 players that are under 20 in this league.
Has participated at the pro level for 2 years now so he has been playing with grown men from 20-33 for 2 yrs starting at the age of 17.
His team went to the finals and last last yr as well while he was on it. He hardly got playing time as coaches want veterans to win. But he gained that experience.
Plays behind 27 yr old Erving Walker and 29 yr old A.J Slaughter.
The team he is facing in the championship has one player under the age of 23(22 yr old SG reserve who is balling in the finals)
He has started in the finals over Walker and put up 13-4-3 and 0 TOs in 23 mins last game for the W.
Was horrible in the first game though putting up 2-2-1 and 1 TO in 19mins

He moved up to the pro league after he lead France to the Euro under 18 championship. http://www.fiba.com/europe/u18/2016
Putting up 21pts 4rebs 9ast in the Semi, and 31pts in the Finals.http://www.fiba.com/europe/u18/2016/news/mvp-ntilikina-headlines-all-star-five
Was named best player of the Euro under 18 tournament.

Prior to this
2015 U18 stats
http://www.eurobasket.com/France/basketball-National-Team.asp?Age=18&Year=2015
2014 U16 stats
http://www.eurobasket.com/France/basketball-National-Team.asp?Age=16&Year=2014

The question is how much does playing in a Pro league vs grown men where he is expected to contribute to winning and will get treated the same way rookies do in the NBA help his growth over playing 30 mins in a college setting? Based on what he is doing now at 18 yrs old though as the youngest player in the league. Starting and getting meaningful mins in Finals games. In the same league 2 years from now he would probably be MVP of the league and become the Lebron James of it. Though that level of comp isn't close to the NBA level, but for an 18 yr old it seems solid.

great post and perspective. Ntilikina already has 2 years of pro ball under his belt. We saw how this translated with KP and Willy. All things being equal give me Frank. The two way dimension playing in front of KP/Willy is just too much pass on

The thing is I don't think the viewpoint from either side is wrong. It really comes down to the players making it happen. There are tons of examples for either side. But Knicks67 said it best. We are all tired of the drama and relying on a star to come save us and make everything happen for us. I want to be secure in that foundation of high IQ, unselfish team players who put in effort on defense is in place first and foremost.

But the thing about Franky is he checks off all those boxes yet still has potential to be an elite talent. Developing better handling comes with practice. Hitting the gym and adding muscle around the 6'5 frame 190pds 7'1 wing span at 18 yrs old so he can finish better around the paint is doable. But things he already comes equipped with is a lot harder to find today.

I have a lot of faith that we get this right. Its the only part of this org I 100% believe in. I am sure we have a good draft. So if Ntilikina, Smith Jr and Monk are all on the board at 8 I am confident we take the right guy. Mitchell isnt impossible there either. I dont believe Kenard is in play. Possible Issac drops but I dont really see that.

I agree though... Frank checks all the boxes, including despite being very young might be the most NBA ready

If there's one thing our front office has shown us we can trust it's our drafting or should i say that it's Gaines. I'm gonna trust the decisions he makes for us in the draft until he shows me i can't trust him any more. I know some will point to the J.Grant decision but if you go back and look at that draft and the players that were still sitting there at #19 you'll see there wasn't very strong options left. I'm also not sure how much Gaines had to do with that pick either.

Gaines had been build up to be this legend by the Phil haters because it gives threading a way to divert the praise to someone else. It's semi amusing

I cannot teach anybody anything. I can only try to make them think - Socrates
fishmike
Posts: 53040
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 7/19/2002
Member: #298
USA
6/16/2017  3:22 PM
meloshouldgo wrote:
newyorker4ever wrote:
fishmike wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
fishmike wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:This is a link to the league Frank N plays for.
http://www.eurobasket.com/France/basketball.asp

He is the youngest player in the pro league and one of around 5-6 players that are under 20 in this league.
Has participated at the pro level for 2 years now so he has been playing with grown men from 20-33 for 2 yrs starting at the age of 17.
His team went to the finals and last last yr as well while he was on it. He hardly got playing time as coaches want veterans to win. But he gained that experience.
Plays behind 27 yr old Erving Walker and 29 yr old A.J Slaughter.
The team he is facing in the championship has one player under the age of 23(22 yr old SG reserve who is balling in the finals)
He has started in the finals over Walker and put up 13-4-3 and 0 TOs in 23 mins last game for the W.
Was horrible in the first game though putting up 2-2-1 and 1 TO in 19mins

He moved up to the pro league after he lead France to the Euro under 18 championship. http://www.fiba.com/europe/u18/2016
Putting up 21pts 4rebs 9ast in the Semi, and 31pts in the Finals.http://www.fiba.com/europe/u18/2016/news/mvp-ntilikina-headlines-all-star-five
Was named best player of the Euro under 18 tournament.

Prior to this
2015 U18 stats
http://www.eurobasket.com/France/basketball-National-Team.asp?Age=18&Year=2015
2014 U16 stats
http://www.eurobasket.com/France/basketball-National-Team.asp?Age=16&Year=2014

The question is how much does playing in a Pro league vs grown men where he is expected to contribute to winning and will get treated the same way rookies do in the NBA help his growth over playing 30 mins in a college setting? Based on what he is doing now at 18 yrs old though as the youngest player in the league. Starting and getting meaningful mins in Finals games. In the same league 2 years from now he would probably be MVP of the league and become the Lebron James of it. Though that level of comp isn't close to the NBA level, but for an 18 yr old it seems solid.

great post and perspective. Ntilikina already has 2 years of pro ball under his belt. We saw how this translated with KP and Willy. All things being equal give me Frank. The two way dimension playing in front of KP/Willy is just too much pass on

The thing is I don't think the viewpoint from either side is wrong. It really comes down to the players making it happen. There are tons of examples for either side. But Knicks67 said it best. We are all tired of the drama and relying on a star to come save us and make everything happen for us. I want to be secure in that foundation of high IQ, unselfish team players who put in effort on defense is in place first and foremost.

But the thing about Franky is he checks off all those boxes yet still has potential to be an elite talent. Developing better handling comes with practice. Hitting the gym and adding muscle around the 6'5 frame 190pds 7'1 wing span at 18 yrs old so he can finish better around the paint is doable. But things he already comes equipped with is a lot harder to find today.

I have a lot of faith that we get this right. Its the only part of this org I 100% believe in. I am sure we have a good draft. So if Ntilikina, Smith Jr and Monk are all on the board at 8 I am confident we take the right guy. Mitchell isnt impossible there either. I dont believe Kenard is in play. Possible Issac drops but I dont really see that.

I agree though... Frank checks all the boxes, including despite being very young might be the most NBA ready

If there's one thing our front office has shown us we can trust it's our drafting or should i say that it's Gaines. I'm gonna trust the decisions he makes for us in the draft until he shows me i can't trust him any more. I know some will point to the J.Grant decision but if you go back and look at that draft and the players that were still sitting there at #19 you'll see there wasn't very strong options left. I'm also not sure how much Gaines had to do with that pick either.

Gaines had been build up to be this legend by the Phil haters because it gives threading a way to divert the praise to someone else. It's semi amusing

not sure the poster above is one of those guys but your 100% correct... there is a vocal group here that reminds us that everything Phil has done is bad.. and Gaines drafted KP/Willy
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
nixluva
Posts: 56258
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 10/5/2004
Member: #758
USA
6/16/2017  4:32 PM
newyorker4ever wrote:
nixluva wrote:
EnySpree wrote:You guys just described why I don't want this French Kid. His motor sucks.... I think guys only want him cuz draft express keeps saying the Knicks should draft him. I won't cry if we do draft him, but if I turn out to be right about him I'm going to roast him everyday.

I want a guy that puts the FEAR OF GOD in teams when he gets the ball. I don't get that vibe from Nitty. The lack of first step burst concerns me. Nitty's gonna be fine in a team concept. I don't see much bust potential just not a high ceiling.

I don't know if you were able to watch his game yesterday but some Knicks fans that were able to watch it said that they saw that burst that people didn't think he had in that game yesterday.

Didn't see that game yet. Good to hear positive reports on Nitty. Just to be clear, I'm not saying he's a scrub obviously, but in all the games I've seen I didn't see an Elite First Step. He does use change of speed at times and when he's already got a head of steam he's crafty enough to get by defenders.

The kid is good but I'm still skeptical about how he'll look in the NBA against the higher level guards. If we draft Nitty I'm not going to be expecting him to be a blur type PG. He's more smooth than explosive IMO.

CrushAlot
Posts: 59764
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 7/25/2003
Member: #452
USA
6/16/2017  4:39 PM
meloshouldgo wrote:
newyorker4ever wrote:
fishmike wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
fishmike wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:This is a link to the league Frank N plays for.
http://www.eurobasket.com/France/basketball.asp

He is the youngest player in the pro league and one of around 5-6 players that are under 20 in this league.
Has participated at the pro level for 2 years now so he has been playing with grown men from 20-33 for 2 yrs starting at the age of 17.
His team went to the finals and last last yr as well while he was on it. He hardly got playing time as coaches want veterans to win. But he gained that experience.
Plays behind 27 yr old Erving Walker and 29 yr old A.J Slaughter.
The team he is facing in the championship has one player under the age of 23(22 yr old SG reserve who is balling in the finals)
He has started in the finals over Walker and put up 13-4-3 and 0 TOs in 23 mins last game for the W.
Was horrible in the first game though putting up 2-2-1 and 1 TO in 19mins

He moved up to the pro league after he lead France to the Euro under 18 championship. http://www.fiba.com/europe/u18/2016
Putting up 21pts 4rebs 9ast in the Semi, and 31pts in the Finals.http://www.fiba.com/europe/u18/2016/news/mvp-ntilikina-headlines-all-star-five
Was named best player of the Euro under 18 tournament.

Prior to this
2015 U18 stats
http://www.eurobasket.com/France/basketball-National-Team.asp?Age=18&Year=2015
2014 U16 stats
http://www.eurobasket.com/France/basketball-National-Team.asp?Age=16&Year=2014

The question is how much does playing in a Pro league vs grown men where he is expected to contribute to winning and will get treated the same way rookies do in the NBA help his growth over playing 30 mins in a college setting? Based on what he is doing now at 18 yrs old though as the youngest player in the league. Starting and getting meaningful mins in Finals games. In the same league 2 years from now he would probably be MVP of the league and become the Lebron James of it. Though that level of comp isn't close to the NBA level, but for an 18 yr old it seems solid.

great post and perspective. Ntilikina already has 2 years of pro ball under his belt. We saw how this translated with KP and Willy. All things being equal give me Frank. The two way dimension playing in front of KP/Willy is just too much pass on

The thing is I don't think the viewpoint from either side is wrong. It really comes down to the players making it happen. There are tons of examples for either side. But Knicks67 said it best. We are all tired of the drama and relying on a star to come save us and make everything happen for us. I want to be secure in that foundation of high IQ, unselfish team players who put in effort on defense is in place first and foremost.

But the thing about Franky is he checks off all those boxes yet still has potential to be an elite talent. Developing better handling comes with practice. Hitting the gym and adding muscle around the 6'5 frame 190pds 7'1 wing span at 18 yrs old so he can finish better around the paint is doable. But things he already comes equipped with is a lot harder to find today.

I have a lot of faith that we get this right. Its the only part of this org I 100% believe in. I am sure we have a good draft. So if Ntilikina, Smith Jr and Monk are all on the board at 8 I am confident we take the right guy. Mitchell isnt impossible there either. I dont believe Kenard is in play. Possible Issac drops but I dont really see that.

I agree though... Frank checks all the boxes, including despite being very young might be the most NBA ready

If there's one thing our front office has shown us we can trust it's our drafting or should i say that it's Gaines. I'm gonna trust the decisions he makes for us in the draft until he shows me i can't trust him any more. I know some will point to the J.Grant decision but if you go back and look at that draft and the players that were still sitting there at #19 you'll see there wasn't very strong options left. I'm also not sure how much Gaines had to do with that pick either.

Gaines had been build up to be this legend by the Phil haters because it gives threading a way to divert the praise to someone else. It's semi amusing

Gaines has done a great job. Finding Galloway, NDour, Willie, recommending KP etc. He was hired by Phil and Phil respects him enough to value and listen to his opinion. He's Phil's guy so Phil gets credit there. Giving Gaines credit isn't taking away from Phil. Phil has a boat load of mistakes that are on him. I don't think anyone would suggest that Phil bringing Gaines in and giving him a voice wasn't a good move by Phil.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
meloshouldgo
Posts: 26565
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 5/3/2014
Member: #5801

6/16/2017  6:49 PM
I never said Gaines shouldn't get credit. But if you think he hasn't been built up by the Phil haters like some type of draft God, so they can heap more blame on Phil, then you haven't been reading.
I cannot teach anybody anything. I can only try to make them think - Socrates
CrushAlot
Posts: 59764
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 7/25/2003
Member: #452
USA
6/16/2017  6:58 PM
meloshouldgo wrote:I never said Gaines shouldn't get credit. But if you think he hasn't been built up by the Phil haters like some type of draft God, so they can heap more blame on Phil, then you haven't been reading.

I think Gaines has been built up by his accomplishments. I think if you judge Phil as an executive with the Knicks it is hard to find positives other than the scouting he has brought in. Rolo and O'Quinn were his only two good signings and he messed up with Rolo.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
HofstraBBall
Posts: 27152
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 11/21/2015
Member: #6192

6/16/2017  7:49 PM    LAST EDITED: 6/17/2017  8:24 AM
For me, Frank is just another reach from the wannabee GM's that get caught up in finding that next diamond in the rough. That "Unicorn" Curry pick. Its just all lottery talk. The good teams have shown time and time again that its best to pick the players that have been followed since teens and brought up in sound basketball systems. Kids with a proven track record of improvement. Agree, this kid has some great physical attributes. Which although important, is not the only variable for being a good NBA player. Just think he has too many weaknesses that everyone keeps assuming will improve. Would rather go with a proven player brought up in the US system. One who has competed with all the other draft picks successfully. Its also highly questionable to pick someone with such a small sample size, shooting weaknesses and limited exposure. SPECIALLY AT POINT GUARD. Toughest position to draft. Just seems like your classic bust move to me. Smith is probably the best player in the draft, and would be the 1st pick if not for his injury as a senior in HS. Monk already has the professional tools to be a good player. Lauri is the best big man shooter in the draft. Think if they are there at 8, you have to take them. If not, would actually prefer Mitchell, John Collins or Josh Jackson over Frank. However, will sulport any pick.
'Knicks focus should be on players that have grown up playing soccer or cricket' - Triplethreat 8/28/2020
Why to draft Frank

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