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So basically we have a roster without one single must keep player
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knicks1248
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5/22/2017  5:35 PM
Maybe Lee or Willy, but even a good deal for them could have them playing elsewhere..

I could be wrong, but something tells me this roster will be predominately the same. Everyone's value definitely took a hit, except for willy, and Lee.

I would keep everyone except rose, unless they primarily moving him to the 2g, and since he doesn't shoot 3's I really don't want him back

ES
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nixluva
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5/22/2017  6:04 PM    LAST EDITED: 5/22/2017  6:04 PM
The problem is we're talking about Rookies and 2nd year players who have yet to reach their pre peak much less peak level as players. This kind of impatience is detrimental to evaluation of a team. We had 5 Rookies at the start and 6 at the end of the season.

Phil doesn't seem like he's trading younger players tho some trades are likely. Unless you're talking KP then any possible trade of a player not named Melo is going to be a small deal. This isn't really a big deal since the Knicks are going to have a roster full of 20 something talent next year. They know this will take time.

Unless you're only satisfied if the Knicks add proven vets this summer and trades the kids then you're probably going to be unhappy. With 3 picks in this draft and maybe a trade for another 1st this is going to be a youth driven team with a few older vets mixed in.

knicks1248
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5/22/2017  6:40 PM
nixluva wrote:The problem is we're talking about Rookies and 2nd year players who have yet to reach their pre peak much less peak level as players. This kind of impatience is detrimental to evaluation of a team. We had 5 Rookies at the start and 6 at the end of the season.

Phil doesn't seem like he's trading younger players tho some trades are likely. Unless you're talking KP then any possible trade of a player not named Melo is going to be a small deal. This isn't really a big deal since the Knicks are going to have a roster full of 20 something talent next year. They know this will take time.

Unless you're only satisfied if the Knicks add proven vets this summer and trades the kids then you're probably going to be unhappy. With 3 picks in this draft and maybe a trade for another 1st this is going to be a youth driven team with a few older vets mixed in.

We have 2 young players, willy and KP, everyone one else is in there mid to upper 20's. Holiday, kuz, lance, rose, are all in their late 20's baker and randle will be 25 yrs old..I know that's young for non athletes, but it's prime time for athelete's.

basically the knicks so call youngsters are really not that young. If we keep the two 2nd round picks, chances are they will be in the d league next season.

ES
nixluva
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5/22/2017  6:51 PM
knicks1248 wrote:
nixluva wrote:The problem is we're talking about Rookies and 2nd year players who have yet to reach their pre peak much less peak level as players. This kind of impatience is detrimental to evaluation of a team. We had 5 Rookies at the start and 6 at the end of the season.

Phil doesn't seem like he's trading younger players tho some trades are likely. Unless you're talking KP then any possible trade of a player not named Melo is going to be a small deal. This isn't really a big deal since the Knicks are going to have a roster full of 20 something talent next year. They know this will take time.

Unless you're only satisfied if the Knicks add proven vets this summer and trades the kids then you're probably going to be unhappy. With 3 picks in this draft and maybe a trade for another 1st this is going to be a youth driven team with a few older vets mixed in.

We have 2 young players, willy and KP, everyone one else is in there mid to upper 20's. Holiday, kuz, lance, rose, are all in their late 20's baker and randle will be 25 yrs old..I know that's young for non athletes, but it's prime time for athelete's.

basically the knicks so call youngsters are really not that young. If we keep the two 2nd round picks, chances are they will be in the d league next season.

Dude we're drafting 3 players this summer! The whole team doesn't have to be 20 in order for the team to be a young team overall. Guys playing starters minutes the next few years are going to be young. The Spurs Johnathon Simmons is 27 and role players like him often have to toil for years to get to a good level. Knicks UDFA's would be in the same boat. The timing would be just right for when our youngest most talented players really put it together.

fishmike
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5/22/2017  7:04 PM
knicks1248 wrote:Maybe Lee or Willy, but even a good deal for them could have them playing elsewhere..

I could be wrong, but something tells me this roster will be predominately the same. Everyone's value definitely took a hit, except for willy, and Lee.

I would keep everyone except rose, unless they primarily moving him to the 2g, and since he doesn't shoot 3's I really don't want him back

the bold. On all of it
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
NYKBocker
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5/22/2017  7:06 PM
If your average age is 25 then you are a young team. Not everybody can be a freshman draftee.
knicks1248
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5/22/2017  7:32 PM
nixluva wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
nixluva wrote:The problem is we're talking about Rookies and 2nd year players who have yet to reach their pre peak much less peak level as players. This kind of impatience is detrimental to evaluation of a team. We had 5 Rookies at the start and 6 at the end of the season.

Phil doesn't seem like he's trading younger players tho some trades are likely. Unless you're talking KP then any possible trade of a player not named Melo is going to be a small deal. This isn't really a big deal since the Knicks are going to have a roster full of 20 something talent next year. They know this will take time.

Unless you're only satisfied if the Knicks add proven vets this summer and trades the kids then you're probably going to be unhappy. With 3 picks in this draft and maybe a trade for another 1st this is going to be a youth driven team with a few older vets mixed in.

We have 2 young players, willy and KP, everyone one else is in there mid to upper 20's. Holiday, kuz, lance, rose, are all in their late 20's baker and randle will be 25 yrs old..I know that's young for non athletes, but it's prime time for athelete's.

basically the knicks so call youngsters are really not that young. If we keep the two 2nd round picks, chances are they will be in the d league next season.

Dude we're drafting 3 players this summer! The whole team doesn't have to be 20 in order for the team to be a young team overall. Guys playing starters minutes the next few years are going to be young. The Spurs Johnathon Simmons is 27 and role players like him often have to toil for years to get to a good level. Knicks UDFA's would be in the same boat. The timing would be just right for when our youngest most talented players really put it together.

Im not expecting a single thing from any draft picks unless we move up into the top 5.

I just looked at the last 15 yrs of 2nd round picks, less than 10% actually make a NBA team, usually 1 player in the 2nd round turns out to be a gilbert arenas, drey green, kerilinko type..thats 1 out of 30.

think im lying, go look for yourself

ES
knicks1248
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5/22/2017  7:33 PM
fishmike wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:Maybe Lee or Willy, but even a good deal for them could have them playing elsewhere..

I could be wrong, but something tells me this roster will be predominately the same. Everyone's value definitely took a hit, except for willy, and Lee.

I would keep everyone except rose, unless they primarily moving him to the 2g, and since he doesn't shoot 3's I really don't want him back

the bold. On all of it

we'll see , just like you stated the knicks sent longstaff to be with KP..your certainly batting a 1000 these days.

ES
knicks1248
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5/22/2017  7:45 PM
NYKBocker wrote:If your average age is 25 then you are a young team. Not everybody can be a freshman draftee.

http://basketball.realgm.com/nba/transactions/composition_search

facts, the average age in the NBA is 26.6, the average age on the knicks this season was 27.

the 2 youngest teams in the nba were portalnd (24.7)and philly(24.6)

ES
nixluva
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5/22/2017  9:02 PM
knicks1248 wrote:
nixluva wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
nixluva wrote:The problem is we're talking about Rookies and 2nd year players who have yet to reach their pre peak much less peak level as players. This kind of impatience is detrimental to evaluation of a team. We had 5 Rookies at the start and 6 at the end of the season.

Phil doesn't seem like he's trading younger players tho some trades are likely. Unless you're talking KP then any possible trade of a player not named Melo is going to be a small deal. This isn't really a big deal since the Knicks are going to have a roster full of 20 something talent next year. They know this will take time.

Unless you're only satisfied if the Knicks add proven vets this summer and trades the kids then you're probably going to be unhappy. With 3 picks in this draft and maybe a trade for another 1st this is going to be a youth driven team with a few older vets mixed in.

We have 2 young players, willy and KP, everyone one else is in there mid to upper 20's. Holiday, kuz, lance, rose, are all in their late 20's baker and randle will be 25 yrs old..I know that's young for non athletes, but it's prime time for athelete's.

basically the knicks so call youngsters are really not that young. If we keep the two 2nd round picks, chances are they will be in the d league next season.

Dude we're drafting 3 players this summer! The whole team doesn't have to be 20 in order for the team to be a young team overall. Guys playing starters minutes the next few years are going to be young. The Spurs Johnathon Simmons is 27 and role players like him often have to toil for years to get to a good level. Knicks UDFA's would be in the same boat. The timing would be just right for when our youngest most talented players really put it together.

Im not expecting a single thing from any draft picks unless we move up into the top 5.

I just looked at the last 15 yrs of 2nd round picks, less than 10% actually make a NBA team, usually 1 player in the 2nd round turns out to be a gilbert arenas, drey green, kerilinko type..thats 1 out of 30.

think im lying, go look for yourself

You're using statistical averages which is fine if you want to use that but it really doesn't mean that the Knicks won't do a BETTER than average job of selecting talent. Besides it's all part of a process of bringing in talent and seeing who pans out. Then you keep doing this until you have the best team you can build.

GS did this and they started with drafted players. The Knicks are doing the same thing. Steph #7 2009! Klay #11 in 2011 and Draymond #35 in 2012. Other players added to build out the team and then becoming a premium destination for Free Agents. They didn't just magically arrive at this stage.

NYKBocker
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5/22/2017  10:51 PM
knicks1248 wrote:
NYKBocker wrote:If your average age is 25 then you are a young team. Not everybody can be a freshman draftee.
http://basketball.realgm.com/nba/transactions/composition_search

facts, the average age in the NBA is 26.6, the average age on the knicks this season was 27.

the 2 youngest teams in the nba were portalnd (24.7)and philly(24.6)

Our average was 27 because we have some old vets in Noah, Melo, sasha, lee, rose. Half of our team is young.
Sinix
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5/22/2017  11:25 PM
There's no reason why the Knicks shouldn't be flexible at this point.

Knicks haven't established that culture and triangle philosophy Phil envisions so he should make moves to get there. Melo's been impeding the way big time. He's gotta go first and foremost.

TripleThreat
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5/23/2017  6:33 AM
knicks1248 wrote:I just looked at the last 15 yrs of 2nd round picks, less than 10% actually make a NBA team, usually 1 player in the 2nd round turns out to be a gilbert arenas, drey green, kerilinko type..thats 1 out of 30.

think im lying, go look for yourself


What other choice is there?

Yes, most draft picks do not pan out. That being said, there are no other real mechanisms to rebuild a team. Free agency has proven over the modern NBA era to be unsuitable except in some extreme and rare circumstances. Trade for a super star player is virtually impossible. Consider when the Clippers traded for Chris Paul, the ground work to build assets to get Paul plus have enough left over to keep building somewhat took probably 5 years of team building effort.

You are saying it sucks, yes it sucks, but what other choice is there?

There is no other choice, you draft, you do the best you can, you accept there is a margin for error within the process.

The sooner that Melo and Jackson are off this team, the sooner a from the ground level rebuild can truly begin.

meloshouldgo
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5/23/2017  6:41 AM    LAST EDITED: 5/23/2017  6:50 AM
knicks1248 wrote:
nixluva wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
nixluva wrote:The problem is we're talking about Rookies and 2nd year players who have yet to reach their pre peak much less peak level as players. This kind of impatience is detrimental to evaluation of a team. We had 5 Rookies at the start and 6 at the end of the season.

Phil doesn't seem like he's trading younger players tho some trades are likely. Unless you're talking KP then any possible trade of a player not named Melo is going to be a small deal. This isn't really a big deal since the Knicks are going to have a roster full of 20 something talent next year. They know this will take time.

Unless you're only satisfied if the Knicks add proven vets this summer and trades the kids then you're probably going to be unhappy. With 3 picks in this draft and maybe a trade for another 1st this is going to be a youth driven team with a few older vets mixed in.

We have 2 young players, willy and KP, everyone one else is in there mid to upper 20's. Holiday, kuz, lance, rose, are all in their late 20's baker and randle will be 25 yrs old..I know that's young for non athletes, but it's prime time for athelete's.

basically the knicks so call youngsters are really not that young. If we keep the two 2nd round picks, chances are they will be in the d league next season.

Dude we're drafting 3 players this summer! The whole team doesn't have to be 20 in order for the team to be a young team overall. Guys playing starters minutes the next few years are going to be young. The Spurs Johnathon Simmons is 27 and role players like him often have to toil for years to get to a good level. Knicks UDFA's would be in the same boat. The timing would be just right for when our youngest most talented players really put it together.

Im not expecting a single thing from any draft picks unless we move up into the top 5.

I just looked at the last 15 yrs of 2nd round picks, less than 10% actually make a NBA team, usually 1 player in the 2nd round turns out to be a gilbert arenas, drey green, kerilinko type..thats 1 out of 30.

think im lying, go look for yourself

You looked at second round picks and concluded we need to get in the top 5? Ok that makes as much sense as your other posts.

I cannot teach anybody anything. I can only try to make them think - Socrates
fishmike
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5/23/2017  10:03 AM
meloshouldgo wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
nixluva wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
nixluva wrote:The problem is we're talking about Rookies and 2nd year players who have yet to reach their pre peak much less peak level as players. This kind of impatience is detrimental to evaluation of a team. We had 5 Rookies at the start and 6 at the end of the season.

Phil doesn't seem like he's trading younger players tho some trades are likely. Unless you're talking KP then any possible trade of a player not named Melo is going to be a small deal. This isn't really a big deal since the Knicks are going to have a roster full of 20 something talent next year. They know this will take time.

Unless you're only satisfied if the Knicks add proven vets this summer and trades the kids then you're probably going to be unhappy. With 3 picks in this draft and maybe a trade for another 1st this is going to be a youth driven team with a few older vets mixed in.

We have 2 young players, willy and KP, everyone one else is in there mid to upper 20's. Holiday, kuz, lance, rose, are all in their late 20's baker and randle will be 25 yrs old..I know that's young for non athletes, but it's prime time for athelete's.

basically the knicks so call youngsters are really not that young. If we keep the two 2nd round picks, chances are they will be in the d league next season.

Dude we're drafting 3 players this summer! The whole team doesn't have to be 20 in order for the team to be a young team overall. Guys playing starters minutes the next few years are going to be young. The Spurs Johnathon Simmons is 27 and role players like him often have to toil for years to get to a good level. Knicks UDFA's would be in the same boat. The timing would be just right for when our youngest most talented players really put it together.

Im not expecting a single thing from any draft picks unless we move up into the top 5.

I just looked at the last 15 yrs of 2nd round picks, less than 10% actually make a NBA team, usually 1 player in the 2nd round turns out to be a gilbert arenas, drey green, kerilinko type..thats 1 out of 30.

think im lying, go look for yourself

You looked at second round picks and concluded we need to get in the top 5? Ok that makes as much sense as your other posts.

same guy who said the draft doesnt matter. He's an entertaining read. Sometimes.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Knixkik
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5/23/2017  10:29 AM
knicks1248 wrote:Maybe Lee or Willy, but even a good deal for them could have them playing elsewhere..

I could be wrong, but something tells me this roster will be predominately the same. Everyone's value definitely took a hit, except for willy, and Lee.

I would keep everyone except rose, unless they primarily moving him to the 2g, and since he doesn't shoot 3's I really don't want him back

I mean, KP and Willy, are building blocks, both should be considered must-keep. Dealing a player like KP just because he has an issue with management is the equivalent of divorcing your spouse just because you get into an argument. Making something bigger out of something not so big is the issue here.

knicks1248
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5/23/2017  1:39 PM
Knixkik wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:Maybe Lee or Willy, but even a good deal for them could have them playing elsewhere..

I could be wrong, but something tells me this roster will be predominately the same. Everyone's value definitely took a hit, except for willy, and Lee.

I would keep everyone except rose, unless they primarily moving him to the 2g, and since he doesn't shoot 3's I really don't want him back

I mean, KP and Willy, are building blocks, both should be considered must-keep. Dealing a player like KP just because he has an issue with management is the equivalent of divorcing your spouse just because you get into an argument. Making something bigger out of something not so big is the issue here.

we don't have to trade KP, but you better start showing some kind of winning culture , or he will leave, anyone would leave if your depending on 2nd rounder's to contribute early and often.

It's going to take a serious trade or dumb luck to right the ship.

When guys like PJ tucker, Simmons, Cunningham (solid role players but not difference makers) are on your FA list, you have to wonder how high the knicks fA list are they, because those seem like the Lee, Afflalo, Dwill, kOQ type.

we need to be figuring out how to trade for the Rodney hood, Will Barton types

ES
Knixkik
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5/23/2017  3:08 PM
knicks1248 wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:Maybe Lee or Willy, but even a good deal for them could have them playing elsewhere..

I could be wrong, but something tells me this roster will be predominately the same. Everyone's value definitely took a hit, except for willy, and Lee.

I would keep everyone except rose, unless they primarily moving him to the 2g, and since he doesn't shoot 3's I really don't want him back

I mean, KP and Willy, are building blocks, both should be considered must-keep. Dealing a player like KP just because he has an issue with management is the equivalent of divorcing your spouse just because you get into an argument. Making something bigger out of something not so big is the issue here.

we don't have to trade KP, but you better start showing some kind of winning culture , or he will leave, anyone would leave if your depending on 2nd rounder's to contribute early and often.

It's going to take a serious trade or dumb luck to right the ship.

When guys like PJ tucker, Simmons, Cunningham (solid role players but not difference makers) are on your FA list, you have to wonder how high the knicks fA list are they, because those seem like the Lee, Afflalo, Dwill, kOQ type.

we need to be figuring out how to trade for the Rodney hood, Will Barton types

There's 3 years to fix things with KP and move in the right direction. I am not concerned about this now.

nixluva
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5/23/2017  3:10 PM
knicks1248 wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:Maybe Lee or Willy, but even a good deal for them could have them playing elsewhere..

I could be wrong, but something tells me this roster will be predominately the same. Everyone's value definitely took a hit, except for willy, and Lee.

I would keep everyone except rose, unless they primarily moving him to the 2g, and since he doesn't shoot 3's I really don't want him back

I mean, KP and Willy, are building blocks, both should be considered must-keep. Dealing a player like KP just because he has an issue with management is the equivalent of divorcing your spouse just because you get into an argument. Making something bigger out of something not so big is the issue here.

we don't have to trade KP, but you better start showing some kind of winning culture , or he will leave, anyone would leave if your depending on 2nd rounder's to contribute early and often.

It's going to take a serious trade or dumb luck to right the ship.

When guys like PJ tucker, Simmons, Cunningham (solid role players but not difference makers) are on your FA list, you have to wonder how high the knicks fA list are they, because those seem like the Lee, Afflalo, Dwill, kOQ type.

we need to be figuring out how to trade for the Rodney hood, Will Barton types


KP is under Knicks control and he stands to make the most by resigning with the Knicks. Once Phil adds guards n wings and they get to Training Camp KP will get back in line.

You think the Knicks don't have interest in guys like Hood? What would you base that assumption on?
You need to stop being so biased that it makes you assume the Knicks don't want good players!

Kemet
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5/23/2017  3:51 PM
Keepers are hard to find on the Knicks because of the head-coach Hornacek/Rambis poor-poor substitution and clueless ability to play small-ball and when to play big-ball. Just plain clueless! or plan TANKING!

KEEPERS are ....
Noah .. Starter
O'Quinn .. Starter
Lee .. Starter
Melo .. trade or cut!
Holiday .. Bench player
Willy .. Bench player
KP .. Bench player
N'Dour .. Bench player
Plumlee .. Bench player

So basically we have a roster without one single must keep player

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