GustavBahler wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:As long as the Knicks draft the best player available with the 8 pick, Im confident the pick will be a good one, even if it might not be my choice. Confident that Gaines will have some input. "System player" picks should be made in the second round, if no one really stands out talent wise.

If you can play in the triangle, you can play in any system. All it requires is high basketball IQ to make the correct reads and a ability to contribute to winning without needing the ball in your hands. Its harder to find triangle type of players then it is to mold players who play in the triangle into another system.

Some of the smartest guys who ever played in the league have said (almost unanimously) that the Triangle is a hard system to learn. NY is notoriously impatient with their draft picks.

I would much rather see NY draft the best player available, and get him acclimated to the NBA asap. Better that than weighing him down with the task of learning a difficult system at the same time he's learning about the league.

All the star players who gave Phil all those rings had a few years (or more) to learn the game in a more conventional system. Would prefer to see our draft pick(s) learn the same way.

All things have to be taken into a consideration. What good does it do if we draft the most talented player but we play him in an offense where he's useless? His value is lowered, he's unhappy and we end up trading him for pennies on the dollar. Look at what Orlando is going through with Mario Hezonja. You have to take ball IQ and fit into account as well. That said, I wouldn't advocate reaching for Justin Jackson just because he's familiar with a system and he has good head on his shoulders.

Knicks have one of the highest rates of roster turnover since Phil took the job. Some of it was understandably due to the lack of draft picks. But there were also quite a few acquisitions who were thought to be "Triangle ready players". How many players have actually fit the bill in 3 years?

Finding players for a system with a steep learning curve, in addition to trying to predict if a college, or a foreign player's talent will translate into the NBA, is making things unnecessarily complicated. Its tough enough just to find talented players who will stick.

If Phil quits or is fired down the road, and someone has to pick up the pieces if he fails, other teams arent going to care if these players are pitched as being "Triangle ready". Knicks need to draft the best players they can find. If it doesn't work out, at least they have a better chance of being a moveable asset than someone who is drafted primarily because of the system.

You can still be triangle ready and washed up lol knowing Dolan's track record, I think it's safe Phil is here for at least two years. I'm not saying to ignore talent completely. But it has to fit. We've seen Rose, Grant, BJ fail here. You have to consider that DSJ will most likely fail if brought in. It still might be worth the gamble, but we already have a good idea of the end result. If you argue that we should trade, I can see that. I like the French kid, but if the staff works him out and doesn't see it, I can accept that. But you definitely have to subtract points for DSJ's lack of fit, unless the brain trust has mapped out a way to make it work. Scouting is complicated work. But as New Yorkx3 pointed out, if they think a player can work in the triangle, he can probably figure out most other systems.

Anthony Randolph was considered best player available at the draft in terms of talent. And this board was ready to burn MSG down when we passed on him to draft Gallinari. Yet with all Randolphs talent he ws out of the league in about 6 yrs never putting it together because he was missing emotional stablitly and IQ to handle the NBA. There really is no telling who flaws will eat them up or not.

GustavBahler wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

If Frank can develop into a reliable two way player, who can get buckets in crunch time. With his defense, wont be a big deal to me. As great as Mitchell has looked.

Mitchell is incredible. It hurts because he's local too. But i have seen enough from Frank to know that he has a chance to be a top 3 player from this class in terms of impact. He may never put up huge numbers, but guys with his ability definitely don't grow on trees.

GustavBahler wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

If Frank can develop into a reliable two way player, who can get buckets in crunch time. With his defense, wont be a big deal to me. As great as Mitchell has looked.

I have no problem with Frank being picked. Wanted them both though. Would have set up our back court with KP for the next 15 yrs. They both would be able to guard 1-3 and play on or off ball and are high character unselfish players. The vision for how the backcourt could have been formed was there. Just wish we found a way to capitalize.

But again shows how players like Mitchell get undervalued and drop in the draft because he only put up 16pts per game in college.

Vmart wrote:This is the Knicks Mitchell would have been used for 20 minutes a game just see how they used Dotson a 4 year college player. Ntlikina being younger probably played into his minutes but the Knicks aren’t playing for anything. Pipe dreaming about playoffs keeps this team stupid. It’s all about letting young players play and develop. That is what this year was about. Yet the Knicks messed that up too.

You think the Knick playing .500 with a dominating KP is a negative.
You think seeing a 19 year old play 78 games and 20 minutes per is a negative.
You think developing Trey Burke from the G league and potentially have a 25 year old starting PG as a result is a negative.
You think letting Dotson be the guy in the Gleague for a year is a negative.

Knicks never said playoffs was a goal. Ever. They are allowed to win games however. This is sports.. you know the actual athletes that are on the floor... they want to win. That matters...

When the Knicks were winning who were the key guys?
Kanter, KP, THjr, and Frank. 4 guys 25 and under... you think that is a negative.

You hold the Knicks accountable for not starting the season in full tank to purposely lose. Hard to have a meaningful discussion with someone who thinks that makes sense considering the Knick's situation.

Vmart wrote:This is the Knicks Mitchell would have been used for 20 minutes a game just see how they used Dotson a 4 year college player. Ntlikina being younger probably played into his minutes but the Knicks aren’t playing for anything. Pipe dreaming about playoffs keeps this team stupid. It’s all about letting young players play and develop. That is what this year was about. Yet the Knicks messed that up too.

martin wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Vmart wrote:This is the Knicks Mitchell would have been used for 20 minutes a game just see how they used Dotson a 4 year college player. Ntlikina being younger probably played into his minutes but the Knicks aren’t playing for anything. Pipe dreaming about playoffs keeps this team stupid. It’s all about letting young players play and develop. That is what this year was about. Yet the Knicks messed that up too.

Ntilikina didn't play more because his coach said he was tired from the long NBA season. I believe only 2 guys taken in the draft after Dotson played more minutes in the NBA then he did this past season.

Frank, second youngest player in the NBA and fairly well established that his body is just ready to get burned out by the rigors of the NBA.

Also, THJr Lee Baker re Dotson minutes.

Vmart, do you purposely beat your head into a wall until it hurts and then start over again?

Vmart wrote:

martin wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Vmart wrote:This is the Knicks Mitchell would have been used for 20 minutes a game just see how they used Dotson a 4 year college player. Ntlikina being younger probably played into his minutes but the Knicks aren’t playing for anything. Pipe dreaming about playoffs keeps this team stupid. It’s all about letting young players play and develop. That is what this year was about. Yet the Knicks messed that up too.

Ntilikina didn't play more because his coach said he was tired from the long NBA season. I believe only 2 guys taken in the draft after Dotson played more minutes in the NBA then he did this past season.

Frank, second youngest player in the NBA and fairly well established that his body is just ready to get burned out by the rigors of the NBA.

Also, THJr Lee Baker re Dotson minutes.

Vmart, do you purposely beat your head into a wall until it hurts and then start over again?

Beats having your head in the sand like you. Martin you have an agenda filled propaganda machine that is totally biased based on the site you run. You can never truly have an honest view about the Knicks. Your view has no purpose and has to be taken with a grain of salt.

lol carry on

Vmart wrote:

martin wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Vmart wrote:This is the Knicks Mitchell would have been used for 20 minutes a game just see how they used Dotson a 4 year college player. Ntlikina being younger probably played into his minutes but the Knicks aren’t playing for anything. Pipe dreaming about playoffs keeps this team stupid. It’s all about letting young players play and develop. That is what this year was about. Yet the Knicks messed that up too.

Ntilikina didn't play more because his coach said he was tired from the long NBA season. I believe only 2 guys taken in the draft after Dotson played more minutes in the NBA then he did this past season.

Frank, second youngest player in the NBA and fairly well established that his body is just ready to get burned out by the rigors of the NBA.

Also, THJr Lee Baker re Dotson minutes.

Vmart, do you purposely beat your head into a wall until it hurts and then start over again?

Beats having your head in the sand like you. Martin you have an agenda filled propaganda machine that is totally biased based on the site you run. You can never truly have an honest view about the Knicks. Your view has no purpose and has to be taken with a grain of salt.

Knicks have been bad for many years so some critic is warranted.

I don't agree or I should say I don't think some of the things you proposed are realistic. For example You can't have Courtney Lee on the roster and just not play him in order to give Dotson mins. Now if the Knicks were able to trade Lee and open up more mins for Doston that's one thing. But to flat out not play a superior vet isn't realistic. Not only that but I don't think Dotson's development hinges strictly on PT. Countless players got no burn the first fees seasons before they became good players. If they were to trade Lee I'm sure they would want some type of value back ad well so just saying trade him isn't so easy. Playing Willy over Kanter who is 24 also isn't realistic.

Troy Williams was brought in and given immediate time. Kornet and Hicks started in G-league and got mins toward the end of the season. Knicks have developed a strong G-league development reputation.

martin wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Vmart wrote:This is the Knicks Mitchell would have been used for 20 minutes a game just see how they used Dotson a 4 year college player. Ntlikina being younger probably played into his minutes but the Knicks aren’t playing for anything. Pipe dreaming about playoffs keeps this team stupid. It’s all about letting young players play and develop. That is what this year was about. Yet the Knicks messed that up too.

Ntilikina didn't play more because his coach said he was tired from the long NBA season. I believe only 2 guys taken in the draft after Dotson played more minutes in the NBA then he did this past season.

Frank, second youngest player in the NBA and fairly well established that his body is just ready to get burned out by the rigors of the NBA.

Also, THJr Lee Baker re Dotson minutes.

Vmart, do you purposely beat your head into a wall until it hurts and then start over again?

Yet you kept saying that he didn't need no G- league time as if he was ready to play with the big boys.

READ THIS ARTICLE https://hoopshype.com/2018/04/30/life-in-the-g-league-where-everyone-is-fighting-for-an-nba-gig/

martin and Fish keeps saying the knicks are doing a solid job developing our youngsters, and for that JH and Rambis were fired hours after the season end .

I said in January that most of the players were tuning JH out, and low and behold MILLS AND PERRY have made it mandatory that the next coach have way better communication skills and can relate to todays players

Burke bust his ass and put in the work all summer and took off from day 1 this season, the knicks didnt have much to do with his development

frank was already a very good defensive player overseas and a horrible offensive player, and thats still the case after 10 months as a knick

KP wrk all summer long without a single knick coaching staff member present, came out of the gate on fire, then JH tried to turned him into melo and he became a volume scorer shooting 39%.

THJ is still erratic.

It's even hard to say if Mitchell would have been this good on a clueless knicks team that had no identity, no system and players roles changed every game. Imagine coming to wrk everyday and having to work in a different department.