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the numbers dont lie
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fishmike
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4/27/2017  9:43 AM
jrodmc wrote:Ahhh the satisfaction of shitting in your own oatmeal. Hate just never gets old, does it?

Simple math that shows, starkly, that compared to other superstars, Melo plays with sheehit. And what's the predictable response?

1) He's a DOUCHE, move on.
2) It's HIS fault his teammates suck!
3) Uhhhhhh, he's the worst player since ...Chris Smith! Yeah, Chris Smith!
4) I still miss Gallo. Really, I do.
5) LINNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN COMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMEEEEEEE BACKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK
6) He didn't win a chip with these shmoes either, so just STFU
7) He's such a cancer. Look how he's infected our favorite Latvian wet dream!
8) Willy! Willy! Willy! Willy can play the 5 and the 4 and the 3!
9) See number 8, we don't need this iso overpaid defenseless POS! Honestly, we'd win more with David Lee!
10) tkf was right, dammit!

you forgot...
11) Damn if only he would play defense
12) Damn if only he would pass
13) Damn if only he were young again

That being said none of that matters. What matters is what is best for the Knicks moving on. If you think continuing to build around a scorer with declining skills and athleticism who was ranked the #431st best defender in the NBA that has a very me-first agenda that is your call. Others see it as a bad fit and want to move on.

Also I have never shat in my own oatmeal, but the day is young.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
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HofstraBBall
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4/27/2017  10:14 AM
fishmike wrote:they also dont tell the whole truth. What's our record with Melo? What is your point? Once again it sounds like your answering some question that nobody is asking.

Good question.....

Knicks since 2001- Pre Melo and a lot of first round draft picks.. 279-459

Knicks with Melo, very little support and no Phil 141-117

Phil's Knicks 80-166

Knicks with Melo out of lineup but on roster 9-51

But he is the problem. We sure are heading in the right direction since Phil. Smh

'Knicks focus should be on players that have grown up playing soccer or cricket' - Triplethreat 8/28/2020
HofstraBBall
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4/27/2017  10:16 AM    LAST EDITED: 4/27/2017  10:51 AM
fwk00 wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:

Winning Percentages Without their All-Star Forward

61% - Blake Griffin's Teammates (51-32)

54% - Kevin Durant's Teammates (46-39)

44% - Paul George's Teammates (37-47)

15% - Anthony's Teammates (9-51)

And just for good measure:


32% - Anthony Davis Teammates (24-51)

I know many people here already have their minds made up one way or another with Carmelo, but this was a really well-written and well-researched column. Definitely read this one if nothing else today.

Take it from Chauncey: "You got to have a really strong point guard with (Carmelo) that knows how to get him the ball, when to get him the ball and when not to get it to him. He's at his best playing like that.”

A good question to ask is: If Carmelo can win 54 games with the Knicks and with J.R. Smith and Tyson Chandler as his next best players, what might he do with Chris Paul creating easy buckets, and a rebounding force like DeAndre Jordan?

The question that keeps me mind boggled, why is melo the blame, and we disregard his support

with a record that bad(all under phil) you have to question the rosters, how that get swept under the rug is beyond haterade.http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/knicks/carmelo-anthony-leave-knicks-nba-team-article-1.3098249

What s this gibberish? Carmelo in Wonderland?

He just finished a season with Derrick Rose. Maybe they should have talked to one another - ya think?

And what's with the magical thinking that its not on Melo its on the ever-elusive PG that the Knicks can't ever seem to find - Rose, Baker, Randle, Galloway, Calderon, Felton, Schved, Linn, and a parade of others.

Are we even sure Chris Paul will get him the ball?

Wow. Your response to a quote from one of the greatest guards to ever play is to name the likes of these losers? Now who is talking gibberish??

'Knicks focus should be on players that have grown up playing soccer or cricket' - Triplethreat 8/28/2020
nixluva
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4/27/2017  10:24 AM
HofstraBBall wrote:
fishmike wrote:they also dont tell the whole truth. What's our record with Melo? What is your point? Once again it sounds like your answering some question that nobody is asking.

Good question.....

Knicks since 2001- Pre Melo and a lot of first round draft picks.. 279-459

Knicks with Melo, very little support and no Phil 141-117

Phil's Knicks 80-166

Knicks with Melo out of lineup but on roster 9-51

But he is the problem. We sure are heading in the right direction since Phil. Smh

You're focused on the W/L which is fine but it's not the only thing at issue. The team MUST do what is necessary to build a Title Contender! Not just a Playoff team but a team with a legitimate chance to one day contend for a Title.

That means Phil had to build a foundation this franchise could build upon. He has been trying to do that but still win! This was unsuccessful but it was only one part of his overall plan! He said from DAY ONE that he was going to have a FUTURE COMPONENT to this team and he's done just that. This is bigger than Melo!!!

fishmike
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4/27/2017  10:26 AM
HofstraBBall wrote:
fishmike wrote:they also dont tell the whole truth. What's our record with Melo? What is your point? Once again it sounds like your answering some question that nobody is asking.

Good question.....

Knicks since 2001- Pre Melo and a lot of first round draft picks.. 279-459

Knicks with Melo, very little support and no Phil 141-117

Phil's Knicks 80-166

Knicks with Melo out of lineup but on roster 9-51

But he is the problem. We sure are heading in the right direction since Phil. Smh

???????

Yea man. Lets get Phil out of here and let Melo take us to the promise land. Phil doesnt know jack and Melo is a proven winning. Good enough for me.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
HofstraBBall
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4/27/2017  10:37 AM
fishmike wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
fishmike wrote:they also dont tell the whole truth. What's our record with Melo? What is your point? Once again it sounds like your answering some question that nobody is asking.

Good question.....

Knicks since 2001- Pre Melo and a lot of first round draft picks.. 279-459

Knicks with Melo, very little support and no Phil 141-117

Phil's Knicks 80-166

Knicks with Melo out of lineup but on roster 9-51

But he is the problem. We sure are heading in the right direction since Phil. Smh

???????

Yea man. Lets get Phil out of here and let Melo take us to the promise land. Phil doesnt know jack and Melo is a proven winning. Good enough for me.

Funny, you put the only reasonable record in 17 years in bold. Yet your point is that we should go with the guy that has a 80-166 record?

'Knicks focus should be on players that have grown up playing soccer or cricket' - Triplethreat 8/28/2020
fishmike
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4/27/2017  10:41 AM
Anthony has the worst defensive rating on the team, with the Knicks giving up 110.4 points per possession when he’s in the game. The team is outscored by more than two points per game when he is on the court. The team’s defensive rating improves by nearly seven points when he’s on the bench. The team’s overall performance is virtually identical whether he is on the court or not. (The team’s offense drops just as much when he hits the bench.)

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2017/01/12/knicks-embarrass-themselves/

Here at ultimate Knicks we only quote the "numbers" that suit us.

When you are a bad defensive team, have targeted that as the #1 offseason priority it makes sense to trade the guy on your team that is ranked the worst defender in the league. I know that logic is difficult for some because they read something like Melo's defense #s and their brain says "Phil good, Melo bad" and they just cant deal.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Moonangie
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4/27/2017  10:48 AM
nixluva wrote:
TPercy wrote:Bill ups says he needs a point guard who can get Melo the ball....I didn't know that there were so many creative ways of dumping the ball in the post....

Just insane how many excuses are made for Melo! Did he need a PG for him to not run the floor on Defense or Offense or to stop holding the ball so much? Dude is too damn comfortable. He doesn't play with a burning desire to win. Sure you get that passion a few games a year but not every night like other top players!!!

This ^^^

HofstraBBall
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4/27/2017  10:55 AM
fishmike wrote:
Anthony has the worst defensive rating on the team, with the Knicks giving up 110.4 points per possession when he’s in the game. The team is outscored by more than two points per game when he is on the court. The team’s defensive rating improves by nearly seven points when he’s on the bench. The team’s overall performance is virtually identical whether he is on the court or not. (The team’s offense drops just as much when he hits the bench.)

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2017/01/12/knicks-embarrass-themselves/

Here at ultimate Knicks we only quote the "numbers" that suit us.

When you are a bad defensive team, have targeted that as the #1 offseason priority it makes sense to trade the guy on your team that is ranked the worst defender in the league. I know that logic is difficult for some because they read something like Melo's defense #s and their brain says "Phil good, Melo bad" and they just cant deal.

True numbers dont lie. Melo is not a good defender. How bout the other numbers that seem to go over your head? Phils W-L? Our record without Melo? Our record since 2001, prior to Melo. Now can you give me his numbers at the 4? Or do those numbers not suit your point?

'Knicks focus should be on players that have grown up playing soccer or cricket' - Triplethreat 8/28/2020
Bonn1997
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4/27/2017  10:57 AM
HofstraBBall wrote:
fishmike wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
fishmike wrote:they also dont tell the whole truth. What's our record with Melo? What is your point? Once again it sounds like your answering some question that nobody is asking.

Good question.....

Knicks since 2001- Pre Melo and a lot of first round draft picks.. 279-459

Knicks with Melo, very little support and no Phil 141-117

Phil's Knicks 80-166

Knicks with Melo out of lineup but on roster 9-51

But he is the problem. We sure are heading in the right direction since Phil. Smh

???????

Yea man. Lets get Phil out of here and let Melo take us to the promise land. Phil doesnt know jack and Melo is a proven winning. Good enough for me.

Funny, you put the only reasonable record in 17 years in bold. Yet your point is that we should go with the guy that has a 80-166 record?


I don't think those #s are quite right. Are you counting the 10-5 to end the season when Phil took over in 2013-14? Regardless, the team was a little over .500 in the Melo era before Phil. Then once we lost the key regular season contributors (Tyson, Kidd, etc.), .500 became .300.
fishmike
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4/27/2017  11:02 AM
HofstraBBall wrote:
fishmike wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
fishmike wrote:they also dont tell the whole truth. What's our record with Melo? What is your point? Once again it sounds like your answering some question that nobody is asking.

Good question.....

Knicks since 2001- Pre Melo and a lot of first round draft picks.. 279-459

Knicks with Melo, very little support and no Phil 141-117

Phil's Knicks 80-166

Knicks with Melo out of lineup but on roster 9-51

But he is the problem. We sure are heading in the right direction since Phil. Smh

???????

Yea man. Lets get Phil out of here and let Melo take us to the promise land. Phil doesnt know jack and Melo is a proven winning. Good enough for me.

Funny, you put the only reasonable record in 17 years in bold. Yet your point is that we should go with the guy that has a 80-166 record?

yes... because all your fluffy wins came in one season, that was 4 years ago.

If Melo was still THAT player you would have an argument. Why not bring in Granger, Pierce and Duncan? Those guys were great 4 years ago also. The year you are clinging to was a great year. Melo deserved to be in the MVP discussion and I believe his #3 finish in votes was justified. That player is long gone man, and you need to accept that. If you want to cry about the last wasted years with him here that is a different story, they were. Starting with the Bargs trade and ending with Rose/Noah Melo has not been helped. He has also not played well enough to merit anything close to the blame you want to put everywhere else however, and as for going to the next level Melo is a lousy playoff performer... Melo makes ZERO sense on this team. Zilch. A guy who needs to take 20+ shots a game to have any impact and plays zero defense has no place on a young team. None. You are talking ancient history.

Again... the question is simple. Does it make sense to move forward with Melo? Its a yes or no, not a oohhh this is MElo's fault or Phil's fault. If Melo wanted more support in his pissing contest with Phil he should have played better. That has always been his MO.. ask Karl, Hornacek, Mike Dantoni... when Melo isnt catered too as he should he takes his shots and goes through the motions. Yawn... you can assign blame all day. This era is over.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
HofstraBBall
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4/27/2017  11:06 AM
nixluva wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
fishmike wrote:they also dont tell the whole truth. What's our record with Melo? What is your point? Once again it sounds like your answering some question that nobody is asking.

Good question.....

Knicks since 2001- Pre Melo and a lot of first round draft picks.. 279-459

Knicks with Melo, very little support and no Phil 141-117

Phil's Knicks 80-166

Knicks with Melo out of lineup but on roster 9-51

But he is the problem. We sure are heading in the right direction since Phil. Smh

You're focused on the W/L which is fine but it's not the only thing at issue. The team MUST do what is necessary to build a Title Contender! Not just a Playoff team but a team with a legitimate chance to one day contend for a Title.

That means Phil had to build a foundation this franchise could build upon. He has been trying to do that but still win! This was unsuccessful but it was only one part of his overall plan! He said from DAY ONE that he was going to have a FUTURE COMPONENT to this team and he's done just that. This is bigger than Melo!!!

I agree. It's bigger than Melo. But you guys dont give it up. Your point is always back to Melo being to blame. And Phil having no blame for the state we are in. See, I am a Melo fan but moreso a Knick fan. And can clearly see that Dolan has starphucked you guys with yet another big name. It is no different that his big name is in the front office. And the Knicks future is the real point, as you said.

So Nix, where are we after three years of Phil. Please name the building blocks we have in place after 3 years? Name the Draft picks Phil has made that are part of the foundation? Name the trades he has made that are part of the foundation? You can say it over and over again that he is doing the right thing but after 3 yeras of him making trades and picks surely you can come up with a quick list of several players that are the key to a turnaround? How has he influenced the ability to attract young free agents to our system? Even at the college level, athletic directors know that one of the most important tools in building a program is to be able to attract talented players to their program.

'Knicks focus should be on players that have grown up playing soccer or cricket' - Triplethreat 8/28/2020
martin
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4/27/2017  11:18 AM
HofstraBBall wrote:
nixluva wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
fishmike wrote:they also dont tell the whole truth. What's our record with Melo? What is your point? Once again it sounds like your answering some question that nobody is asking.

Good question.....

Knicks since 2001- Pre Melo and a lot of first round draft picks.. 279-459

Knicks with Melo, very little support and no Phil 141-117

Phil's Knicks 80-166

Knicks with Melo out of lineup but on roster 9-51

But he is the problem. We sure are heading in the right direction since Phil. Smh

You're focused on the W/L which is fine but it's not the only thing at issue. The team MUST do what is necessary to build a Title Contender! Not just a Playoff team but a team with a legitimate chance to one day contend for a Title.

That means Phil had to build a foundation this franchise could build upon. He has been trying to do that but still win! This was unsuccessful but it was only one part of his overall plan! He said from DAY ONE that he was going to have a FUTURE COMPONENT to this team and he's done just that. This is bigger than Melo!!!

I agree. It's bigger than Melo. But you guys dont give it up. Your point is always back to Melo being to blame. And Phil having no blame for the state we are in. See, I am a Melo fan but moreso a Knick fan. And can clearly see that Dolan has starphucked you guys with yet another big name. It is no different that his big name is in the front office. And the Knicks future is the real point, as you said.

So Nix, where are we after three years of Phil. Please name the building blocks we have in place after 3 years? Name the Draft picks Phil has made that are part of the foundation? Name the trades he has made that are part of the foundation? You can say it over and over again that he is doing the right thing but after 3 yeras of him making trades and picks surely you can come up with a quick list of several players that are the key to a turnaround? How has he influenced the ability to attract young free agents to our system? Even at the college level, athletic directors know that one of the most important tools in building a program is to be able to attract talented players to their program.

I don't think I've seen anyone really do that. Most will just stop reading what you have to say right there.

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fishmike
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4/27/2017  11:18 AM
HofstraBBall wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Anthony has the worst defensive rating on the team, with the Knicks giving up 110.4 points per possession when he’s in the game. The team is outscored by more than two points per game when he is on the court. The team’s defensive rating improves by nearly seven points when he’s on the bench. The team’s overall performance is virtually identical whether he is on the court or not. (The team’s offense drops just as much when he hits the bench.)

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2017/01/12/knicks-embarrass-themselves/

Here at ultimate Knicks we only quote the "numbers" that suit us.

When you are a bad defensive team, have targeted that as the #1 offseason priority it makes sense to trade the guy on your team that is ranked the worst defender in the league. I know that logic is difficult for some because they read something like Melo's defense #s and their brain says "Phil good, Melo bad" and they just cant deal.

True numbers dont lie. Melo is not a good defender. How bout the other numbers that seem to go over your head? Phils W-L? Our record without Melo? Our record since 2001, prior to Melo. Now can you give me his numbers at the 4? Or do those numbers not suit your point?

they are my point exactly. We are trying to get away from a team built "around" one guy, which has always failed with Melo. At its best its a first round exit. At its worst its a .300 team.

At this point its moot, because Melo is clearly declining so it doesnt matter. Melo's defense is only getting worse. His is less explosive. He draws fewer fouls. He is volume jumpshooter that doesnt defend. Why do I care about how good Melo was at PF 4 years ago? What relevence does that have moving forward and building a team that defends and plays system basketball? None.

You dont have to believe blindly in Phil. You can hate him and his failed moves all you want, but he's not going to fix this or turn it around with Melo as a centerpiece. No gm is. You seem to ignore that the GM before Phil also failed to help Melo. If your such a Melo fan boy get his Olympic jersey and enjoy. He's a HOF player. He will be great as a 3rd or 4th option next year playing around other all stars. Enjoy. He's a 33 year old jump shooter that only plays on 1 side of the ball.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
fishmike
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4/27/2017  11:26 AM
martin wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
nixluva wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
fishmike wrote:they also dont tell the whole truth. What's our record with Melo? What is your point? Once again it sounds like your answering some question that nobody is asking.

Good question.....

Knicks since 2001- Pre Melo and a lot of first round draft picks.. 279-459

Knicks with Melo, very little support and no Phil 141-117

Phil's Knicks 80-166

Knicks with Melo out of lineup but on roster 9-51

But he is the problem. We sure are heading in the right direction since Phil. Smh

You're focused on the W/L which is fine but it's not the only thing at issue. The team MUST do what is necessary to build a Title Contender! Not just a Playoff team but a team with a legitimate chance to one day contend for a Title.

That means Phil had to build a foundation this franchise could build upon. He has been trying to do that but still win! This was unsuccessful but it was only one part of his overall plan! He said from DAY ONE that he was going to have a FUTURE COMPONENT to this team and he's done just that. This is bigger than Melo!!!

I agree. It's bigger than Melo. But you guys dont give it up. Your point is always back to Melo being to blame. And Phil having no blame for the state we are in. See, I am a Melo fan but moreso a Knick fan. And can clearly see that Dolan has starphucked you guys with yet another big name. It is no different that his big name is in the front office. And the Knicks future is the real point, as you said.

So Nix, where are we after three years of Phil. Please name the building blocks we have in place after 3 years? Name the Draft picks Phil has made that are part of the foundation? Name the trades he has made that are part of the foundation? You can say it over and over again that he is doing the right thing but after 3 yeras of him making trades and picks surely you can come up with a quick list of several players that are the key to a turnaround? How has he influenced the ability to attract young free agents to our system? Even at the college level, athletic directors know that one of the most important tools in building a program is to be able to attract talented players to their program.

I don't think I've seen anyone really do that. Most will just stop reading what you have to say right there.

Martin... that is his go-to and its just made up. Ive said 100x Phil has been bad and made tons of mistakes. Guy just cant get past it. HofstraBBall you can say it over and over again because its the only thing that is holding your argument, which doesnt exist in the first place.

Everyone understands the current state of the team is Phil's fault. Most also understand if Phil is going to succeed at his job more big roster changes need to happen and that is going to start with the guys who dont share the ball and dont defend. Yes, Phil gave the NTC and brought in Rose. Yes those are Phil's mistakes. Best thing to do with mistakes? Get out the eraser and fix it, even if it leaves an ugly smudge for a little while.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
franco12
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4/27/2017  11:35 AM
fishmike wrote:
martin wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
nixluva wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
fishmike wrote:they also dont tell the whole truth. What's our record with Melo? What is your point? Once again it sounds like your answering some question that nobody is asking.

Good question.....

Knicks since 2001- Pre Melo and a lot of first round draft picks.. 279-459

Knicks with Melo, very little support and no Phil 141-117

Phil's Knicks 80-166

Knicks with Melo out of lineup but on roster 9-51

But he is the problem. We sure are heading in the right direction since Phil. Smh

You're focused on the W/L which is fine but it's not the only thing at issue. The team MUST do what is necessary to build a Title Contender! Not just a Playoff team but a team with a legitimate chance to one day contend for a Title.

That means Phil had to build a foundation this franchise could build upon. He has been trying to do that but still win! This was unsuccessful but it was only one part of his overall plan! He said from DAY ONE that he was going to have a FUTURE COMPONENT to this team and he's done just that. This is bigger than Melo!!!

I agree. It's bigger than Melo. But you guys dont give it up. Your point is always back to Melo being to blame. And Phil having no blame for the state we are in. See, I am a Melo fan but moreso a Knick fan. And can clearly see that Dolan has starphucked you guys with yet another big name. It is no different that his big name is in the front office. And the Knicks future is the real point, as you said.

So Nix, where are we after three years of Phil. Please name the building blocks we have in place after 3 years? Name the Draft picks Phil has made that are part of the foundation? Name the trades he has made that are part of the foundation? You can say it over and over again that he is doing the right thing but after 3 yeras of him making trades and picks surely you can come up with a quick list of several players that are the key to a turnaround? How has he influenced the ability to attract young free agents to our system? Even at the college level, athletic directors know that one of the most important tools in building a program is to be able to attract talented players to their program.

I don't think I've seen anyone really do that. Most will just stop reading what you have to say right there.

Martin... that is his go-to and its just made up. Ive said 100x Phil has been bad and made tons of mistakes. Guy just cant get past it. HofstraBBall you can say it over and over again because its the only thing that is holding your argument, which doesnt exist in the first place.

Everyone understands the current state of the team is Phil's fault. Most also understand if Phil is going to succeed at his job more big roster changes need to happen and that is going to start with the guys who dont share the ball and dont defend. Yes, Phil gave the NTC and brought in Rose. Yes those are Phil's mistakes. Best thing to do with mistakes? Get out the eraser and fix it, even if it leaves an ugly smudge for a little while.


If you bring your car into a mechanic, and he makes mistakes, fixes the wrong part, breaks something.

Do you keep going to him? Or do you fire his ass because you can't trust him?

Whether Melo goes or stays - doesn't matter to me. I'm happy to build with him - though I think he is too much diva.

But the person guiding the franchise - there is your flaw.

I know, I know - Phil is not going anywhere. But he should, and his replacement should deal accordingly with Melo.

meloshouldgo
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4/27/2017  11:40 AM
knicks1248 wrote:
fishmike wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
Nalod wrote:numbers don't lie. true.

What is the record WITH Melo? Its not his "fault", he is not to blame.
But his is not the solution either going forward.

All im saying is you better replacing him with 20 to 25 point scorer, because the rest of the team is pure trash, I'm talking straight D league.

9 wins with out him, phils record (not counting the partial 37 win season he walk into)80-160..

80 games under 500 with 3 entirely different rosters...smh..

It's ok to want to trade melo, there will always be players half the fans hate, or are done with, Goes all the way back to EWING, the problem I always have is that the replacements are so much worse.


smh at this! I do hope we get more guys like KP and Willy from our dleague team!

I know you you think KP and willy are knicks saviors, and they do have a lot of potential, but if you can't put the right squad around them, they are pretty use less. You have seen this with Bosh in Toronto, Cousins, with sac, davis with the pelicans, KG with Minny, Shaq with the Magic, Labron with the cavs.

I mean Kareem, and wilt were traded in their primes, don't act like it can't happen with KP. Especially after Phil just said, EVERYBODY can be had for the right price

Farting from both sides of your mouth as usual? If you don't put the right squads atound Melo he is pretty useless too isn't he? You whine about Melo's supporting cast through the years, THEN you make threads about how they are all in the playoffs. Do you really expect people to take you seriously?

I cannot teach anybody anything. I can only try to make them think - Socrates
knicks1248
Posts: 42059
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 2/3/2004
Member: #582
4/27/2017  11:42 AM
fishmike wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Anthony has the worst defensive rating on the team, with the Knicks giving up 110.4 points per possession when he’s in the game. The team is outscored by more than two points per game when he is on the court. The team’s defensive rating improves by nearly seven points when he’s on the bench. The team’s overall performance is virtually identical whether he is on the court or not. (The team’s offense drops just as much when he hits the bench.)

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2017/01/12/knicks-embarrass-themselves/

Here at ultimate Knicks we only quote the "numbers" that suit us.

When you are a bad defensive team, have targeted that as the #1 offseason priority it makes sense to trade the guy on your team that is ranked the worst defender in the league. I know that logic is difficult for some because they read something like Melo's defense #s and their brain says "Phil good, Melo bad" and they just cant deal.

True numbers dont lie. Melo is not a good defender. How bout the other numbers that seem to go over your head? Phils W-L? Our record without Melo? Our record since 2001, prior to Melo. Now can you give me his numbers at the 4? Or do those numbers not suit your point?

they are my point exactly. We are trying to get away from a team built "around" one guy, which has always failed with Melo. At its best its a first round exit. At its worst its a .300 team.

At this point its moot, because Melo is clearly declining so it doesnt matter. Melo's defense is only getting worse. His is less explosive. He draws fewer fouls. He is volume jumpshooter that doesnt defend. Why do I care about how good Melo was at PF 4 years ago? What relevence does that have moving forward and building a team that defends and plays system basketball? None.

You dont have to believe blindly in Phil. You can hate him and his failed moves all you want, but he's not going to fix this or turn it around with Melo as a centerpiece. No gm is. You seem to ignore that the GM before Phil also failed to help Melo. If your such a Melo fan boy get his Olympic jersey and enjoy. He's a HOF player. He will be great as a 3rd or 4th option next year playing around other all stars. Enjoy. He's a 33 year old jump shooter that only plays on 1 side of the ball.

Let me ask you something fish. His value is at the lowest point of his career, almost like when we traded EWING.

1-Your not getting a 1st round for him
2-Your are almost certain to take on more salary in the long run, and a much less talent
3-There isn't a contender out there that will be able to match the salary without giving up something major, which would take away their depth.

So what do you really think phil is going to get, REALISTICALLY

ES
knicks1248
Posts: 42059
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 2/3/2004
Member: #582
4/27/2017  11:53 AM
meloshouldgo wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
fishmike wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
Nalod wrote:numbers don't lie. true.

What is the record WITH Melo? Its not his "fault", he is not to blame.
But his is not the solution either going forward.

All im saying is you better replacing him with 20 to 25 point scorer, because the rest of the team is pure trash, I'm talking straight D league.

9 wins with out him, phils record (not counting the partial 37 win season he walk into)80-160..

80 games under 500 with 3 entirely different rosters...smh..

It's ok to want to trade melo, there will always be players half the fans hate, or are done with, Goes all the way back to EWING, the problem I always have is that the replacements are so much worse.


smh at this! I do hope we get more guys like KP and Willy from our dleague team!

I know you you think KP and willy are knicks saviors, and they do have a lot of potential, but if you can't put the right squad around them, they are pretty use less. You have seen this with Bosh in Toronto, Cousins, with sac, davis with the pelicans, KG with Minny, Shaq with the Magic, Labron with the cavs.

I mean Kareem, and wilt were traded in their primes, don't act like it can't happen with KP. Especially after Phil just said, EVERYBODY can be had for the right price

Farting from both sides of your mouth as usual? If you don't put the right squads atound Melo he is pretty useless too isn't he? You whine about Melo's supporting cast through the years, THEN you make threads about how they are all in the playoffs. Do you really expect people to take you seriously?

look at you name, and ask your self is anybody taking you serious

ES
Bonn1997
Posts: 58654
Alba Posts: 2
Joined: 2/2/2004
Member: #581
USA
4/27/2017  11:54 AM    LAST EDITED: 4/27/2017  11:55 AM
knicks1248 wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
fishmike wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
Nalod wrote:numbers don't lie. true.

What is the record WITH Melo? Its not his "fault", he is not to blame.
But his is not the solution either going forward.

All im saying is you better replacing him with 20 to 25 point scorer, because the rest of the team is pure trash, I'm talking straight D league.

9 wins with out him, phils record (not counting the partial 37 win season he walk into)80-160..

80 games under 500 with 3 entirely different rosters...smh..

It's ok to want to trade melo, there will always be players half the fans hate, or are done with, Goes all the way back to EWING, the problem I always have is that the replacements are so much worse.


smh at this! I do hope we get more guys like KP and Willy from our dleague team!

I know you you think KP and willy are knicks saviors, and they do have a lot of potential, but if you can't put the right squad around them, they are pretty use less. You have seen this with Bosh in Toronto, Cousins, with sac, davis with the pelicans, KG with Minny, Shaq with the Magic, Labron with the cavs.

I mean Kareem, and wilt were traded in their primes, don't act like it can't happen with KP. Especially after Phil just said, EVERYBODY can be had for the right price

Farting from both sides of your mouth as usual? If you don't put the right squads atound Melo he is pretty useless too isn't he? You whine about Melo's supporting cast through the years, THEN you make threads about how they are all in the playoffs. Do you really expect people to take you seriously?

look at you name, and ask your self is anybody taking you serious


They should. He's right. Melo's teams will be basically anywhere from .400 to .600 depending on his teammates (maybe plus/minus even a little more). Sounds like a typical low impact player. Don't confuse high PPG with high impact.
the numbers dont lie

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