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Insider Article:5 on 5 Can the Knicks tame chaos, trade Melo, and start winning agaain?
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CrushAlot
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4/22/2017  6:29 PM
Saw this on the Knicks board on reddit.
Can the New York Knicks win with Phil Jackson running the team? What's the future for Carmelo Anthony, Derrick Rose, Joakim Noah and Kristaps Porzingis in New York?
Our 5-on-5 crew debates and predicts their next moves.
1. What do you foresee and advise for the Knicks this offseason?
Chris Herring, FiveThirtyEight/ESPN.com: I foresee the Knicks going out and trying to find ideal fits for their chosen style of play. But I would advise against that.
Just go find a young point guard who can really defend. Put Noah in bubble wrap and let him mentor younger guys. Let head coach Jeff Hornacek utilize whatever offense he'd like. Take Porzingis to dinner and a movie, and tell him you're sorry, and that you'll try to start acting like a normal franchise for the rest of his tenure in New York.
Amin Elhassan, ESPN Insider: Absent the type of wholesale, top-to-bottom change required to fix the franchise, realistically the Knicks have to take a more cooperative approach to trying to unload Anthony rather than the current passive-aggressive tactic they've exercised.
Point guard continues to be an area of concern, and I'm not sure Rose is a satisfactory answer, absent a flexible and reasonable salary. If the need at PG can't be addressed via the draft, the remaining market for guards looks extremely thin, with many of the bigger names expected to stay with their incumbent teams.
The Knicks would be better off hoarding their cap space and doing a better job of searching for bargain players, much in the same way teams such as the Sixers and Heat have.
Ian Begley, ESPN.com: My advice? Draft a point guard (the Knicks like De'Aaron Fox and Frank Ntilikina, among other PGs) and sign a veteran lead guard in free agency willing to mentor the rookie. The second part may prove difficult. The Knicks project to have about $19 million in cap space. So landing even a second-tier point guard without eating up most of the available cap space seems unlikely. (Rose remains an option.)
Of course, if the Knicks trade Anthony before the draft, they'll likely have to use either cap space or a pick to replace the 10-time All-Star.
Jeremias Engelmann, ESPN Insider: The most important thing is to not re-sign Rose, whose impact has been in the red for several years now. I'd try to trade Anthony for young players or picks, although at this point one can't expect to get much for Anthony -- maybe a mid-first-rounder or so. Given that the 2018 draft appears to be extremely top-heavy, going into full-blown rebuild mode should certainly be considered.
Kevin Pelton, ESPN Insider: At this point an Anthony trade appears the inevitable conclusion to his battle in the media with Jackson. I'm just not sure which team would be both (A) approved as a destination by Anthony with his no-trade clause and (B) willing to offer the Knicks real value in return.
Since I'd assumed Rose would move on, I was surprised by Jackson's comments suggesting Rose wanted to return. Perhaps Rose is a Plan B if New York doesn't jump into position to draft either Lonzo Ball or Markelle Fultz and can't sign one of the top free-agent point guards who might change teams (George Hill, Jrue Holiday and Jeff Teague). Depending how much cap space an Anthony trade creates, that might be about the extent of the Knicks' offseason.
2. What's your take on James Dolan's decision to bring Phil Jackson back for two more years?
Elhassan: Ludicrous. Again, I remind everyone that Jackson got this job after Dolan kept raising the salary until Phil couldn't say no to a job he'd never done before. That's not a recipe for success in general. Deciding to keep him around after three years of ineptitude is the definition of digging a hole deeper in an effort to get out of it.
They've done some good things in New York, mainly drafting Porzingis, but the big moves (signing Noah, trading for Rose) have been disasters, by and large. Worse, Jackson shows no signs of improvement on the job, as his mishandling of the Anthony situation continues.
Pelton: It was a mistake. While Jackson's tenure has had some successes in the draft, his insistence on trying to fit ill-suited personnel into the triangle offense, his tendency to rip his own players in the media (sometimes indirectly) and questionable signings in free agency have more than offset the positives.
Begley: It was a formality. Dolan and Jackson had a mutual option on the final two years of Jackson's contract. Jackson isn't ready to leave, so the options were picked up. So this transaction isn't an indication that Jackson has an infallible relationship with Dolan. For what it's worth: Some around Dolan pushed for him to make a management change earlier this season.
Herring: Stupid. I get that he said he wouldn't meddle with Phil. But what was the point of having the out clause if the Knicks could perform this poorly -- with no clear turnaround or optimism in sight -- and the president still keep his job, with no questions asked? Holding someone accountable and saying, "Thank you for your service here," isn't meddling. It's business.
Engelmann: Terrible. Jackson lacks almost everything that you want from the head of your front office. He's a terrible judge of player skill, forces the coaches into some ancient offensive scheme that worked only with two of the best shooting guards of all time, and alienates his players through derogatory comments in the media.
3. Do you expect Carmelo Anthony to be traded this offseason?
Pelton: Yeah, it feels like we've passed the point where the relationship between Anthony and the organization can be repaired. That may not necessarily result in a trade if he doesn't find the possible destinations to his liking, but it seems like that bar is set lower than it was at this year's trade deadline.
Engelmann: I think so. Jackson doesn't want him to be there and, after a series of negative comments by Jackson, Anthony probably doesn't want to be there and is likely to waive his no-trade clause. That said, it'll be tough for Jackson to find a deal he's happy with -- a soon-to-be 33-year-old Anthony won't net you much in today's trade market.
Herring: That's up to him. He obviously doesn't have to go anywhere, since he has the no-trade clause. But this feels beyond repair, even for an organization that has grown used to awkward makeups and resolutions. His chances of winning improve 50-fold if he leaves, even if it means swallowing his pride.
Begley: Yes. Some around the team believe there's only one path to Anthony remaining on the team next season: If Jackson is fired. That isn't out of the realm of possibility, of course, but seems unlikely. Also possible but unlikely? Melo digs his heels in and says he isn't going anywhere. As difficult as it would be for him to leave New York, Anthony has to know that he needs to go elsewhere to pursue a title.
Elhassan: Perhaps. While I don't believe that Anthony is in any rush to do the Knicks (and specifically Jackson) any favors, there comes a time when the constant disrespect coupled with the losing and lack of direction make spite an unworthy emotion. If the right situation comes up (hello, Miami!), I have to believe Melo would sign off.
From the Knicks' perspective, the onus has to be on not taking back toxic contracts at this point. They devalued their trade assets all year long. They can't expect to get back any real return in the form of players or picks.
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[–]johnhenryirons 15 points 2 days ago
4. If you were running the Knicks, which would you choose regarding Joakim Noah?
A. Keep him and pay him $55 million over the next three years. B. Release him via the stretch provision and pay him $55 million over the next seven years.
Begley: Your options are limited. You can waive Noah via the stretch provision, but that leaves nearly $8 million in wasted cap space on your books for seven seasons. Their best option is to have Noah finish out his contract and hope that he stays healthy and serves as a strong mentor to Porzingis and Willy Hernangomez.
Elhassan: I'd be inclined to keep him, since stretching the deal without any real plan for the resulting cap flexibility seems foolhardy.
Pelton: A. I can't think of any precedent for stretching a player making as much as Noah so quickly. Even Josh Smith was midway into the second season of his contract when the Detroit Pistons stretched it. To put dead money on their cap for so long, the Knicks would have to be convinced they could make excellent use of the resulting space this summer. I don't think that's the case.
Herring: Keep him. The team isn't contending anytime soon, and if things do improve over the next year or two, there's no use in having additional cap limitations down the road because you felt the urge to rid yourself of his deal when the Knicks were going to be horrible anyway.
Engelmann: A. Noah got a lot of flak this season, but most of the advanced stats say his impact was actually close to average. Irrespective of what his impact was, I think keeping him for another three seasons is the cleaner solution. Not to burden the franchise through 2024 should be the highest priority.
5. How many playoff appearances will the Knicks make in the next three seasons?
Herring: If they're fortunate, one. Getting there a few years from now seems realistic as Porzingis gets older. But the organization -- or really just Phil -- needs to take a long, hard look at its offensive and defensive philosophies between now and then to actually make that happen.
Elhassan: One, maybe, and that would be in the third season, after Jackson is gone and perhaps his successor can throw something together that brings the Knicks to quasi-competitive levels.
Begley: At least one. If Jackson remains at the helm and Porzingis remains with the team, the Knicks should be able to crack the top eight in the Eastern Conference. New York has its first-round pick this season and in all subsequent drafts, which are key building blocks for what Jackson hopes will be a young, competitive team centered around Porzingis.
Engelmann: I'd put the over/under at 0.5. I don't see a lot of good players tripping over themselves to sign with the Knicks, and Jackson has shown little ability to identify impactful role players. The only plus side is that they're playing in the Eastern Conference.
Pelton: I think the line is at 0.5, and I'm not sure whether I'd take the over or the under. As excited as we are about Porzingis' potential, it's by no means clear he'll be good enough to lead a team to the postseason without a strong supporting cast that doesn't seem likely to materialize at MSG anytime soon.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
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EnySpree
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4/22/2017  8:07 PM    LAST EDITED: 4/22/2017  8:08 PM
Without reading the article.... yes! Life goes on... Melo will be retired and the Knicks will still be a franchise in the nba. Seasons change bad things rearrange.
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fwk00
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4/23/2017  12:42 AM
Nothing fair and balanced here.

ESPN is notorious for banal sports reporting and this is just another example.

Okay, I get it. There are sports analysts who make their money bashing the Knicks, the coaching staff, Dolan, and so on. Bashing Phil seems to get them bonus points.

The hypocrisy starts with the very new idea that Phil was expected to turn the w-l record around in what amounts to less than three years after starting with a dysfunctional roster. *This* metric is what these sportswriters claim that Phil is incompetent, a failure, yada, yada, yada. But they don't stop with that. Oh, no.

*THEREFORE* the Knicks cannot possibly improve in the next few years! *FURTHERMORE* the Knicks have not improved at all in the last three years! *ERGO*, *ERGO* I tell ya it's chaos with the Knicks - cats living with dogs, NO PLAN!!!! - AIEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

IMO, ESPN still has their collective butts up their arses.

It would be refreshing for ESPN to maybe open their minds a crack and allow an alternative opinion to peek through.

1.) The Knicks will acquire a few more two-way players either through trade or the draft. FA signings will target defensive specialists.

2.) Dolan likes the job Phil is doing and is smart enough to understand that turning the Knicks around is not a short-term proposition. Even assuming that Dolan was as whimsical as firing Phil, there are NO plausible alternatives.

3.) Melo will get traded. Why is this a question?

4.) Noah will remain an important asset to the Knicks and his contract will not be stretched.

5.) Knicks will make the playoffs starting next year (assuming no chemistry killing injuries/cosmic misfirings).


Idiots.


CrushAlot
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4/23/2017  1:04 AM
fwk00 wrote:Nothing fair and balanced here.

ESPN is notorious for banal sports reporting and this is just another example.

Okay, I get it. There are sports analysts who make their money bashing the Knicks, the coaching staff, Dolan, and so on. Bashing Phil seems to get them bonus points.

The hypocrisy starts with the very new idea that Phil was expected to turn the w-l record around in what amounts to less than three years after starting with a dysfunctional roster. *This* metric is what these sportswriters claim that Phil is incompetent, a failure, yada, yada, yada. But they don't stop with that. Oh, no.

*THEREFORE* the Knicks cannot possibly improve in the next few years! *FURTHERMORE* the Knicks have not improved at all in the last three years! *ERGO*, *ERGO* I tell ya it's chaos with the Knicks - cats living with dogs, NO PLAN!!!! - AIEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

IMO, ESPN still has their collective butts up their arses.

It would be refreshing for ESPN to maybe open their minds a crack and allow an alternative opinion to peek through.

1.) The Knicks will acquire a few more two-way players either through trade or the draft. FA signings will target defensive specialists.

2.) Dolan likes the job Phil is doing and is smart enough to understand that turning the Knicks around is not a short-term proposition. Even assuming that Dolan was as whimsical as firing Phil, there are NO plausible alternatives.

3.) Melo will get traded. Why is this a question?

4.) Noah will remain an important asset to the Knicks and his contract will not be stretched.

5.) Knicks will make the playoffs starting next year (assuming no chemistry killing injuries/cosmic misfirings).


Idiots.

I really like Herring. I enjoyed his Knick coverage when he was with the wsj but I didn't always agree with him. I think Begley might be the best beat reporter for the Knicks. Pelton is just a stat nerd who offers awesome insight. I think it was a great panel. I don't remember Herring or Begley's takes on the offseason moves prior to this past season but Pelton was very much against the Noah deal and the Rose signing. But his takes are almost scientific/no agenda.

In regards to the Knicks making the playoffs starting next year, I see no way that this happens with the current management team. I will clarify, I don't think this happens if they chase the 8th seed and go for stars and I don't think this happens if they go for younger players. I also don't think Noah will be an important asset to the Knicks. I love prime Noah but I think that ship has sailed. I hope I am wrong but I think that deal haunts the Knicks beyond Phil's tenure

I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
fwk00
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4/23/2017  1:50 AM
CrushAlot wrote:
fwk00 wrote:Nothing fair and balanced here.

ESPN is notorious for banal sports reporting and this is just another example.

Okay, I get it. There are sports analysts who make their money bashing the Knicks, the coaching staff, Dolan, and so on. Bashing Phil seems to get them bonus points.

The hypocrisy starts with the very new idea that Phil was expected to turn the w-l record around in what amounts to less than three years after starting with a dysfunctional roster. *This* metric is what these sportswriters claim that Phil is incompetent, a failure, yada, yada, yada. But they don't stop with that. Oh, no.

*THEREFORE* the Knicks cannot possibly improve in the next few years! *FURTHERMORE* the Knicks have not improved at all in the last three years! *ERGO*, *ERGO* I tell ya it's chaos with the Knicks - cats living with dogs, NO PLAN!!!! - AIEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

IMO, ESPN still has their collective butts up their arses.

It would be refreshing for ESPN to maybe open their minds a crack and allow an alternative opinion to peek through.

1.) The Knicks will acquire a few more two-way players either through trade or the draft. FA signings will target defensive specialists.

2.) Dolan likes the job Phil is doing and is smart enough to understand that turning the Knicks around is not a short-term proposition. Even assuming that Dolan was as whimsical as firing Phil, there are NO plausible alternatives.

3.) Melo will get traded. Why is this a question?

4.) Noah will remain an important asset to the Knicks and his contract will not be stretched.

5.) Knicks will make the playoffs starting next year (assuming no chemistry killing injuries/cosmic misfirings).


Idiots.

I really like Herring. I enjoyed his Knick coverage when he was with the wsj but I didn't always agree with him. I think Begley might be the best beat reporter for the Knicks. Pelton is just a stat nerd who offers awesome insight. I think it was a great panel. I don't remember Herring or Begley's takes on the offseason moves prior to this past season but Pelton was very much against the Noah deal and the Rose signing. But his takes are almost scientific/no agenda.

In regards to the Knicks making the playoffs starting next year, I see no way that this happens with the current management team. I will clarify, I don't think this happens if they chase the 8th seed and go for stars and I don't think this happens if they go for younger players. I also don't think Noah will be an important asset to the Knicks. I love prime Noah but I think that ship has sailed. I hope I am wrong but I think that deal haunts the Knicks beyond Phil's tenure

I think there's way too much of a Greek chorus going on with Knicks coverage. I think a lot of it has to do with click-bait teasers and inciteful headlines. But the other is more insipid and that is the lack of thinking being put into what is being said. Sports reporting has fallen prey to what happens with political reporting - absurd shouting matches that always end with a Hitler story arc.

Phil has become their Hitler endpoint. Its like reading a great fiction story that leaves you anticipating a great ending and the final line is, "and it was all a dream". In these forums, its "Melo and Phil must go!"

The narrative that "Melo AND Phil must go" makes NO sense whatsoever. On what planet in what company does the President of a corporation quit because a line employee refuses to follow directions? How ridiculous can this storyline get?

And why aren't reporters held responsible for writing malicious fictions that destroy careers? And to apply the same standards, why isn't the President of Disney addressing the issue? Shouldn't they both "go".

Okay. Let's put that stuff aside.

Look Noah is an expensive asset, no argument. When I talk about him being a valuable asset though I'm really talking about him becoming a mentor for the bigmen and an impact player off the bench. I doubt he'll start with any regularity again. And I think in the playoffs he will play heroically much to the delight of the fans.

That said. Sure his fiscal contract is onerous but NBA onerous contracts are a dime a dozen. His contract is no less movable than many others. It won't happen this coming season but he'll eventually become attractive for trade somewhere down the line.

I don't think the management team has been the Knicks problem. Easy to say I know. But I don't think Phil has any aspiration to finish eighth. I think he's looking for middle of the pack [first] and I think its doable. It should have happened this year. I don't think Phil will chase stars but instead will chase solid contributors. The Knicks are very close to a tipping point for changing losses into wins. A good summer will reverse the recent trajectory.

CrushAlot
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4/23/2017  2:27 AM
fwk00 wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
fwk00 wrote:Nothing fair and balanced here.

ESPN is notorious for banal sports reporting and this is just another example.

Okay, I get it. There are sports analysts who make their money bashing the Knicks, the coaching staff, Dolan, and so on. Bashing Phil seems to get them bonus points.

The hypocrisy starts with the very new idea that Phil was expected to turn the w-l record around in what amounts to less than three years after starting with a dysfunctional roster. *This* metric is what these sportswriters claim that Phil is incompetent, a failure, yada, yada, yada. But they don't stop with that. Oh, no.

*THEREFORE* the Knicks cannot possibly improve in the next few years! *FURTHERMORE* the Knicks have not improved at all in the last three years! *ERGO*, *ERGO* I tell ya it's chaos with the Knicks - cats living with dogs, NO PLAN!!!! - AIEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

IMO, ESPN still has their collective butts up their arses.

It would be refreshing for ESPN to maybe open their minds a crack and allow an alternative opinion to peek through.

1.) The Knicks will acquire a few more two-way players either through trade or the draft. FA signings will target defensive specialists.

2.) Dolan likes the job Phil is doing and is smart enough to understand that turning the Knicks around is not a short-term proposition. Even assuming that Dolan was as whimsical as firing Phil, there are NO plausible alternatives.

3.) Melo will get traded. Why is this a question?

4.) Noah will remain an important asset to the Knicks and his contract will not be stretched.

5.) Knicks will make the playoffs starting next year (assuming no chemistry killing injuries/cosmic misfirings).


Idiots.

I really like Herring. I enjoyed his Knick coverage when he was with the wsj but I didn't always agree with him. I think Begley might be the best beat reporter for the Knicks. Pelton is just a stat nerd who offers awesome insight. I think it was a great panel. I don't remember Herring or Begley's takes on the offseason moves prior to this past season but Pelton was very much against the Noah deal and the Rose signing. But his takes are almost scientific/no agenda.

In regards to the Knicks making the playoffs starting next year, I see no way that this happens with the current management team. I will clarify, I don't think this happens if they chase the 8th seed and go for stars and I don't think this happens if they go for younger players. I also don't think Noah will be an important asset to the Knicks. I love prime Noah but I think that ship has sailed. I hope I am wrong but I think that deal haunts the Knicks beyond Phil's tenure

I think there's way too much of a Greek chorus going on with Knicks coverage. I think a lot of it has to do with click-bait teasers and inciteful headlines. But the other is more insipid and that is the lack of thinking being put into what is being said. Sports reporting has fallen prey to what happens with political reporting - absurd shouting matches that always end with a Hitler story arc.

Phil has become their Hitler endpoint. Its like reading a great fiction story that leaves you anticipating a great ending and the final line is, "and it was all a dream". In these forums, its "Melo and Phil must go!"

The narrative that "Melo AND Phil must go" makes NO sense whatsoever. On what planet in what company does the President of a corporation quit because a line employee refuses to follow directions? How ridiculous can this storyline get?

And why aren't reporters held responsible for writing malicious fictions that destroy careers? And to apply the same standards, why isn't the President of Disney addressing the issue? Shouldn't they both "go".

Okay. Let's put that stuff aside.

Look Noah is an expensive asset, no argument. When I talk about him being a valuable asset though I'm really talking about him becoming a mentor for the bigmen and an impact player off the bench. I doubt he'll start with any regularity again. And I think in the playoffs he will play heroically much to the delight of the fans.

That said. Sure his fiscal contract is onerous but NBA onerous contracts are a dime a dozen. His contract is no less movable than many others. It won't happen this coming season but he'll eventually become attractive for trade somewhere down the line.

I don't think the management team has been the Knicks problem. Easy to say I know. But I don't think Phil has any aspiration to finish eighth. I think he's looking for middle of the pack [first] and I think its doable. It should have happened this year. I don't think Phil will chase stars but instead will chase solid contributors. The Knicks are very close to a tipping point for changing losses into wins. A good summer will reverse the recent trajectory.

I appreciate a polite response because I think we disagree on almost everything in regards to the Knicks. When I was able to find a source to read the article, I focused in on two guys, Begley and Pelton. Pelton is not a robot and has very strong opinions but he comes about his opinions in a robotic fashion. He uses analytics and supplements them with the eye test. Pelton's views are totally unbiased and numbers generated. Begley is the espn reporter for the Knicks. He has sources and knows the team as well as anybody. The other two guys are credentialed but I chose the two guys mentioned to focus on.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
nixluva
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4/23/2017  3:00 AM
None of these guys can predict the future so it doesn't really matter what they think. You can't know when a young player will finally make the leap from potential to reality. The Knicks do have KP going into yr 3 and maybe he takes a big step up.

There are so many possibilities for change this offseason. With the draft, a Melo Trade and Free Agency there's just too many moving parts for anyone to say how things might change and perhaps change for the better. We'll know very shortly.

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4/23/2017  6:30 AM
For all the talk, had Phil had his two lottery picks that a rebuild deserves he would be sitting in a different light.

In 2014 we could have drafted Saric at 11 or Lavine.
In 2016 we could have drafted Jamal Murray

Not a great finished product, but team looks different

Hernangomez
Porzingis
Murray
Lavine

This year maybe add Isaac?

Hernangomez
Porzingis
Isaac
Murray
LaVine

Again, not a finished product, but people wouldn't be knocking Phil as much. The lack of lottery picks has really hurt us bad. We need to think where this team would have been had Phil not drafted KP, instead having taken the more popular picks at the time in Winslow or Mudiay.

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4/23/2017  8:48 AM
I think Phil has this season to proof something to Dolan. I don't know if Dolan has given Phil an ultimatum. I don't know what needs to happen for Phil to stay beyond this year.
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4/23/2017  9:13 AM
I dont think we make the playoffs next year BUT thats ok. See the problem our organization has had for 17 years is no patience to build a team.we traded numerous picks and young assets for veteran players and we ended up worse with no picks. I want to build a consistent future winner even if that means not making the playoffs right away
EnySpree
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4/23/2017  10:06 AM    LAST EDITED: 4/23/2017  10:06 AM
franco12 wrote:I think Phil has this season to proof something to Dolan. I don't know if Dolan has given Phil an ultimatum. I don't know what needs to happen for Phil to stay beyond this year.

He's under contract for 2 more years... you guys gotta get the drama out of your head. It doesn't have to be a novela episode for everything

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fwk00
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4/23/2017  10:07 AM    LAST EDITED: 4/23/2017  10:09 AM
CrushAlot wrote:
fwk00 wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
fwk00 wrote:Nothing fair and balanced here.

ESPN is notorious for banal sports reporting and this is just another example.

Okay, I get it. There are sports analysts who make their money bashing the Knicks, the coaching staff, Dolan, and so on. Bashing Phil seems to get them bonus points.

The hypocrisy starts with the very new idea that Phil was expected to turn the w-l record around in what amounts to less than three years after starting with a dysfunctional roster. *This* metric is what these sportswriters claim that Phil is incompetent, a failure, yada, yada, yada. But they don't stop with that. Oh, no.

*THEREFORE* the Knicks cannot possibly improve in the next few years! *FURTHERMORE* the Knicks have not improved at all in the last three years! *ERGO*, *ERGO* I tell ya it's chaos with the Knicks - cats living with dogs, NO PLAN!!!! - AIEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

IMO, ESPN still has their collective butts up their arses.

It would be refreshing for ESPN to maybe open their minds a crack and allow an alternative opinion to peek through.

1.) The Knicks will acquire a few more two-way players either through trade or the draft. FA signings will target defensive specialists.

2.) Dolan likes the job Phil is doing and is smart enough to understand that turning the Knicks around is not a short-term proposition. Even assuming that Dolan was as whimsical as firing Phil, there are NO plausible alternatives.

3.) Melo will get traded. Why is this a question?

4.) Noah will remain an important asset to the Knicks and his contract will not be stretched.

5.) Knicks will make the playoffs starting next year (assuming no chemistry killing injuries/cosmic misfirings).


Idiots.

I really like Herring. I enjoyed his Knick coverage when he was with the wsj but I didn't always agree with him. I think Begley might be the best beat reporter for the Knicks. Pelton is just a stat nerd who offers awesome insight. I think it was a great panel. I don't remember Herring or Begley's takes on the offseason moves prior to this past season but Pelton was very much against the Noah deal and the Rose signing. But his takes are almost scientific/no agenda.

In regards to the Knicks making the playoffs starting next year, I see no way that this happens with the current management team. I will clarify, I don't think this happens if they chase the 8th seed and go for stars and I don't think this happens if they go for younger players. I also don't think Noah will be an important asset to the Knicks. I love prime Noah but I think that ship has sailed. I hope I am wrong but I think that deal haunts the Knicks beyond Phil's tenure

I think there's way too much of a Greek chorus going on with Knicks coverage. I think a lot of it has to do with click-bait teasers and inciteful headlines. But the other is more insipid and that is the lack of thinking being put into what is being said. Sports reporting has fallen prey to what happens with political reporting - absurd shouting matches that always end with a Hitler story arc.

Phil has become their Hitler endpoint. Its like reading a great fiction story that leaves you anticipating a great ending and the final line is, "and it was all a dream". In these forums, its "Melo and Phil must go!"

The narrative that "Melo AND Phil must go" makes NO sense whatsoever. On what planet in what company does the President of a corporation quit because a line employee refuses to follow directions? How ridiculous can this storyline get?

And why aren't reporters held responsible for writing malicious fictions that destroy careers? And to apply the same standards, why isn't the President of Disney addressing the issue? Shouldn't they both "go".

Okay. Let's put that stuff aside.

Look Noah is an expensive asset, no argument. When I talk about him being a valuable asset though I'm really talking about him becoming a mentor for the bigmen and an impact player off the bench. I doubt he'll start with any regularity again. And I think in the playoffs he will play heroically much to the delight of the fans.

That said. Sure his fiscal contract is onerous but NBA onerous contracts are a dime a dozen. His contract is no less movable than many others. It won't happen this coming season but he'll eventually become attractive for trade somewhere down the line.

I don't think the management team has been the Knicks problem. Easy to say I know. But I don't think Phil has any aspiration to finish eighth. I think he's looking for middle of the pack [first] and I think its doable. It should have happened this year. I don't think Phil will chase stars but instead will chase solid contributors. The Knicks are very close to a tipping point for changing losses into wins. A good summer will reverse the recent trajectory.

I appreciate a polite response because I think we disagree on almost everything in regards to the Knicks. When I was able to find a source to read the article, I focused in on two guys, Begley and Pelton. Pelton is not a robot and has very strong opinions but he comes about his opinions in a robotic fashion. He uses analytics and supplements them with the eye test. Pelton's views are totally unbiased and numbers generated. Begley is the espn reporter for the Knicks. He has sources and knows the team as well as anybody. The other two guys are credentialed but I chose the two guys mentioned to focus on.

Well, the analytics guys will give you very myopic but accurate profiles of players on-court patterns. I'm not arguing something like that.

But when *that* myopic viewpoint is projected into the pragmatic decisions that had to be made, I think it turns into malicious disinformation that has turned many fans into a raving lynch mob.

Rose and Noah were always a package deal out of Chicago. Phil wanted to fulfill an obligation to Melo to bring in some FA vets. The FA pool wasn't there for the Knicks. Looking around, nor was there an opportunity to trade for a quality point guard. In that context, taking a chance on Rose and Noah made sense for the Knicks within Melo's window. Rose and Noah netted Courtney Lee and Holiday (a revelation).

And its easy to see that the team clicked early and coulda, shoulda, woulda made the playoffs with a little leadership from its so-called star. They wouldn't have won a ring but they would have been entertaining.

SO. Any reporter who in retrospect or even in real time would have to perform some historical forensics and come up with a plausible alternative plan to acquire talent to surround Melo with in a last-ditch effort to win with Melo. AND, it should be noted, that many players and executives around the league [in realtime] applauded the signings as a worthwhile risk including Mr. Excitement, Melo.

So, when I say that the pool of reporters is biased toward the lynch mob mentality, I think I'm being accurate. There are individuals out there who can lend balance to the discussion. A balance it deserves given the bonfires of the vanities that these haters have been feeding.

fwk00
Posts: 22130
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4/23/2017  10:14 AM
nixluva wrote:None of these guys can predict the future so it doesn't really matter what they think. You can't know when a young player will finally make the leap from potential to reality. The Knicks do have KP going into yr 3 and maybe he takes a big step up.

There are so many possibilities for change this offseason. With the draft, a Melo Trade and Free Agency there's just too many moving parts for anyone to say how things might change and perhaps change for the better. We'll know very shortly.

You are right that no one can predict the future but I think player trajectories can be be fairly accurately gauged. This is not to say, injuries or breakout years can be easily predicted.

What matters about what these guys say is not their accuracy but their net effect on the mood and psychology of the fan base. That concerns me.

The number of close losses this past year was staggering. It's not hard to postulate that next year - WITHOUT GIVING UP ON A REBUILD - the Knicks can turn that around and that means playoffs on Phil's terms - not a flash in the pan, Melo, vanity run.

fwk00
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4/23/2017  10:15 AM
nyknickzingis wrote:For all the talk, had Phil had his two lottery picks that a rebuild deserves he would be sitting in a different light.

In 2014 we could have drafted Saric at 11 or Lavine.
In 2016 we could have drafted Jamal Murray

Not a great finished product, but team looks different

Hernangomez
Porzingis
Murray
Lavine

This year maybe add Isaac?

Hernangomez
Porzingis
Isaac
Murray
LaVine

Again, not a finished product, but people wouldn't be knocking Phil as much. The lack of lottery picks has really hurt us bad. We need to think where this team would have been had Phil not drafted KP, instead having taken the more popular picks at the time in Winslow or Mudiay.

Yes, the lack of picks and tradable talent were handicaps that all these writers ignore .

fwk00
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4/23/2017  10:17 AM
franco12 wrote:I think Phil has this season to proof something to Dolan. I don't know if Dolan has given Phil an ultimatum. I don't know what needs to happen for Phil to stay beyond this year.

I don't think so. Dolan's own run-ins with critics have probably galvanized his commitment to Phil. He'd be bat-**** crazy to switch horses now.

CrushAlot
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4/23/2017  10:20 AM
fwk00 wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
fwk00 wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
fwk00 wrote:Nothing fair and balanced here.

ESPN is notorious for banal sports reporting and this is just another example.

Okay, I get it. There are sports analysts who make their money bashing the Knicks, the coaching staff, Dolan, and so on. Bashing Phil seems to get them bonus points.

The hypocrisy starts with the very new idea that Phil was expected to turn the w-l record around in what amounts to less than three years after starting with a dysfunctional roster. *This* metric is what these sportswriters claim that Phil is incompetent, a failure, yada, yada, yada. But they don't stop with that. Oh, no.

*THEREFORE* the Knicks cannot possibly improve in the next few years! *FURTHERMORE* the Knicks have not improved at all in the last three years! *ERGO*, *ERGO* I tell ya it's chaos with the Knicks - cats living with dogs, NO PLAN!!!! - AIEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

IMO, ESPN still has their collective butts up their arses.

It would be refreshing for ESPN to maybe open their minds a crack and allow an alternative opinion to peek through.

1.) The Knicks will acquire a few more two-way players either through trade or the draft. FA signings will target defensive specialists.

2.) Dolan likes the job Phil is doing and is smart enough to understand that turning the Knicks around is not a short-term proposition. Even assuming that Dolan was as whimsical as firing Phil, there are NO plausible alternatives.

3.) Melo will get traded. Why is this a question?

4.) Noah will remain an important asset to the Knicks and his contract will not be stretched.

5.) Knicks will make the playoffs starting next year (assuming no chemistry killing injuries/cosmic misfirings).


Idiots.

I really like Herring. I enjoyed his Knick coverage when he was with the wsj but I didn't always agree with him. I think Begley might be the best beat reporter for the Knicks. Pelton is just a stat nerd who offers awesome insight. I think it was a great panel. I don't remember Herring or Begley's takes on the offseason moves prior to this past season but Pelton was very much against the Noah deal and the Rose signing. But his takes are almost scientific/no agenda.

In regards to the Knicks making the playoffs starting next year, I see no way that this happens with the current management team. I will clarify, I don't think this happens if they chase the 8th seed and go for stars and I don't think this happens if they go for younger players. I also don't think Noah will be an important asset to the Knicks. I love prime Noah but I think that ship has sailed. I hope I am wrong but I think that deal haunts the Knicks beyond Phil's tenure

I think there's way too much of a Greek chorus going on with Knicks coverage. I think a lot of it has to do with click-bait teasers and inciteful headlines. But the other is more insipid and that is the lack of thinking being put into what is being said. Sports reporting has fallen prey to what happens with political reporting - absurd shouting matches that always end with a Hitler story arc.

Phil has become their Hitler endpoint. Its like reading a great fiction story that leaves you anticipating a great ending and the final line is, "and it was all a dream". In these forums, its "Melo and Phil must go!"

The narrative that "Melo AND Phil must go" makes NO sense whatsoever. On what planet in what company does the President of a corporation quit because a line employee refuses to follow directions? How ridiculous can this storyline get?

And why aren't reporters held responsible for writing malicious fictions that destroy careers? And to apply the same standards, why isn't the President of Disney addressing the issue? Shouldn't they both "go".

Okay. Let's put that stuff aside.

Look Noah is an expensive asset, no argument. When I talk about him being a valuable asset though I'm really talking about him becoming a mentor for the bigmen and an impact player off the bench. I doubt he'll start with any regularity again. And I think in the playoffs he will play heroically much to the delight of the fans.

That said. Sure his fiscal contract is onerous but NBA onerous contracts are a dime a dozen. His contract is no less movable than many others. It won't happen this coming season but he'll eventually become attractive for trade somewhere down the line.

I don't think the management team has been the Knicks problem. Easy to say I know. But I don't think Phil has any aspiration to finish eighth. I think he's looking for middle of the pack [first] and I think its doable. It should have happened this year. I don't think Phil will chase stars but instead will chase solid contributors. The Knicks are very close to a tipping point for changing losses into wins. A good summer will reverse the recent trajectory.

I appreciate a polite response because I think we disagree on almost everything in regards to the Knicks. When I was able to find a source to read the article, I focused in on two guys, Begley and Pelton. Pelton is not a robot and has very strong opinions but he comes about his opinions in a robotic fashion. He uses analytics and supplements them with the eye test. Pelton's views are totally unbiased and numbers generated. Begley is the espn reporter for the Knicks. He has sources and knows the team as well as anybody. The other two guys are credentialed but I chose the two guys mentioned to focus on.

Well, the analytics guys will give you very myopic but accurate profiles of players on-court patterns. I'm not arguing something like that.

But when *that* myopic viewpoint is projected into the pragmatic decisions that had to be made, I think it turns into malicious disinformation that has turned many fans into a raving lynch mob.

Rose and Noah were always a package deal out of Chicago. Phil wanted to fulfill an obligation to Melo to bring in some FA vets. The FA pool wasn't there for the Knicks. Looking around, nor was there an opportunity to trade for a quality point guard. In that context, taking a chance on Rose and Noah made sense for the Knicks within Melo's window. Rose and Noah netted Courtney Lee and Holiday (a revelation).

And its easy to see that the team clicked early and coulda, shoulda, woulda made the playoffs with a little leadership from its so-called star. They wouldn't have won a ring but they would have been entertaining.

SO. Any reporter who in retrospect or even in real time would have to perform some historical forensics and come up with a plausible alternative plan to acquire talent to surround Melo with in a last-ditch effort to win with Melo. AND, it should be noted, that many players and executives around the league [in realtime] applauded the signings as a worthwhile risk including Mr. Excitement, Melo.

So, when I say that the pool of reporters is biased toward the lynch mob mentality, I think I'm being accurate. There are individuals out there who can lend balance to the discussion. A balance it deserves given the bonfires of the vanities that these haters have been feeding.

Phil wanted Noah. Getting him was not fulfilling an obligation to Melo. Noah and Phil are simpatico. Phil is responsible for the moves that he made. He is responsible for giving Melo one of only 3 ntc in existence in the nba. He is responsible for the bad trades and bad signings. He is responsible for doing things that were immediately called out as stupid moves before the team ever practiced together.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
fwk00
Posts: 22130
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Joined: 5/20/2015
Member: #6048

4/23/2017  10:35 AM
CrushAlot wrote:
fwk00 wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
fwk00 wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
fwk00 wrote:Nothing fair and balanced here.

ESPN is notorious for banal sports reporting and this is just another example.

Okay, I get it. There are sports analysts who make their money bashing the Knicks, the coaching staff, Dolan, and so on. Bashing Phil seems to get them bonus points.

The hypocrisy starts with the very new idea that Phil was expected to turn the w-l record around in what amounts to less than three years after starting with a dysfunctional roster. *This* metric is what these sportswriters claim that Phil is incompetent, a failure, yada, yada, yada. But they don't stop with that. Oh, no.

*THEREFORE* the Knicks cannot possibly improve in the next few years! *FURTHERMORE* the Knicks have not improved at all in the last three years! *ERGO*, *ERGO* I tell ya it's chaos with the Knicks - cats living with dogs, NO PLAN!!!! - AIEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

IMO, ESPN still has their collective butts up their arses.

It would be refreshing for ESPN to maybe open their minds a crack and allow an alternative opinion to peek through.

1.) The Knicks will acquire a few more two-way players either through trade or the draft. FA signings will target defensive specialists.

2.) Dolan likes the job Phil is doing and is smart enough to understand that turning the Knicks around is not a short-term proposition. Even assuming that Dolan was as whimsical as firing Phil, there are NO plausible alternatives.

3.) Melo will get traded. Why is this a question?

4.) Noah will remain an important asset to the Knicks and his contract will not be stretched.

5.) Knicks will make the playoffs starting next year (assuming no chemistry killing injuries/cosmic misfirings).


Idiots.

I really like Herring. I enjoyed his Knick coverage when he was with the wsj but I didn't always agree with him. I think Begley might be the best beat reporter for the Knicks. Pelton is just a stat nerd who offers awesome insight. I think it was a great panel. I don't remember Herring or Begley's takes on the offseason moves prior to this past season but Pelton was very much against the Noah deal and the Rose signing. But his takes are almost scientific/no agenda.

In regards to the Knicks making the playoffs starting next year, I see no way that this happens with the current management team. I will clarify, I don't think this happens if they chase the 8th seed and go for stars and I don't think this happens if they go for younger players. I also don't think Noah will be an important asset to the Knicks. I love prime Noah but I think that ship has sailed. I hope I am wrong but I think that deal haunts the Knicks beyond Phil's tenure

I think there's way too much of a Greek chorus going on with Knicks coverage. I think a lot of it has to do with click-bait teasers and inciteful headlines. But the other is more insipid and that is the lack of thinking being put into what is being said. Sports reporting has fallen prey to what happens with political reporting - absurd shouting matches that always end with a Hitler story arc.

Phil has become their Hitler endpoint. Its like reading a great fiction story that leaves you anticipating a great ending and the final line is, "and it was all a dream". In these forums, its "Melo and Phil must go!"

The narrative that "Melo AND Phil must go" makes NO sense whatsoever. On what planet in what company does the President of a corporation quit because a line employee refuses to follow directions? How ridiculous can this storyline get?

And why aren't reporters held responsible for writing malicious fictions that destroy careers? And to apply the same standards, why isn't the President of Disney addressing the issue? Shouldn't they both "go".

Okay. Let's put that stuff aside.

Look Noah is an expensive asset, no argument. When I talk about him being a valuable asset though I'm really talking about him becoming a mentor for the bigmen and an impact player off the bench. I doubt he'll start with any regularity again. And I think in the playoffs he will play heroically much to the delight of the fans.

That said. Sure his fiscal contract is onerous but NBA onerous contracts are a dime a dozen. His contract is no less movable than many others. It won't happen this coming season but he'll eventually become attractive for trade somewhere down the line.

I don't think the management team has been the Knicks problem. Easy to say I know. But I don't think Phil has any aspiration to finish eighth. I think he's looking for middle of the pack [first] and I think its doable. It should have happened this year. I don't think Phil will chase stars but instead will chase solid contributors. The Knicks are very close to a tipping point for changing losses into wins. A good summer will reverse the recent trajectory.

I appreciate a polite response because I think we disagree on almost everything in regards to the Knicks. When I was able to find a source to read the article, I focused in on two guys, Begley and Pelton. Pelton is not a robot and has very strong opinions but he comes about his opinions in a robotic fashion. He uses analytics and supplements them with the eye test. Pelton's views are totally unbiased and numbers generated. Begley is the espn reporter for the Knicks. He has sources and knows the team as well as anybody. The other two guys are credentialed but I chose the two guys mentioned to focus on.

Well, the analytics guys will give you very myopic but accurate profiles of players on-court patterns. I'm not arguing something like that.

But when *that* myopic viewpoint is projected into the pragmatic decisions that had to be made, I think it turns into malicious disinformation that has turned many fans into a raving lynch mob.

Rose and Noah were always a package deal out of Chicago. Phil wanted to fulfill an obligation to Melo to bring in some FA vets. The FA pool wasn't there for the Knicks. Looking around, nor was there an opportunity to trade for a quality point guard. In that context, taking a chance on Rose and Noah made sense for the Knicks within Melo's window. Rose and Noah netted Courtney Lee and Holiday (a revelation).

And its easy to see that the team clicked early and coulda, shoulda, woulda made the playoffs with a little leadership from its so-called star. They wouldn't have won a ring but they would have been entertaining.

SO. Any reporter who in retrospect or even in real time would have to perform some historical forensics and come up with a plausible alternative plan to acquire talent to surround Melo with in a last-ditch effort to win with Melo. AND, it should be noted, that many players and executives around the league [in realtime] applauded the signings as a worthwhile risk including Mr. Excitement, Melo.

So, when I say that the pool of reporters is biased toward the lynch mob mentality, I think I'm being accurate. There are individuals out there who can lend balance to the discussion. A balance it deserves given the bonfires of the vanities that these haters have been feeding.

Phil wanted Noah. Getting him was not fulfilling an obligation to Melo. Noah and Phil are simpatico. Phil is responsible for the moves that he made. He is responsible for giving Melo one of only 3 ntc in existence in the nba. He is responsible for the bad trades and bad signings. He is responsible for doing things that were immediately called out as stupid moves before the team ever practiced together.

Then you will graciously give him credit for all of the positive consequences that create a winning team next year. After all, HE IS RESPONSIBLE for that too.

CrushAlot
Posts: 59764
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Member: #452
USA
4/23/2017  10:40 AM
fwk00 wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
fwk00 wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
fwk00 wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
fwk00 wrote:Nothing fair and balanced here.

ESPN is notorious for banal sports reporting and this is just another example.

Okay, I get it. There are sports analysts who make their money bashing the Knicks, the coaching staff, Dolan, and so on. Bashing Phil seems to get them bonus points.

The hypocrisy starts with the very new idea that Phil was expected to turn the w-l record around in what amounts to less than three years after starting with a dysfunctional roster. *This* metric is what these sportswriters claim that Phil is incompetent, a failure, yada, yada, yada. But they don't stop with that. Oh, no.

*THEREFORE* the Knicks cannot possibly improve in the next few years! *FURTHERMORE* the Knicks have not improved at all in the last three years! *ERGO*, *ERGO* I tell ya it's chaos with the Knicks - cats living with dogs, NO PLAN!!!! - AIEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

IMO, ESPN still has their collective butts up their arses.

It would be refreshing for ESPN to maybe open their minds a crack and allow an alternative opinion to peek through.

1.) The Knicks will acquire a few more two-way players either through trade or the draft. FA signings will target defensive specialists.

2.) Dolan likes the job Phil is doing and is smart enough to understand that turning the Knicks around is not a short-term proposition. Even assuming that Dolan was as whimsical as firing Phil, there are NO plausible alternatives.

3.) Melo will get traded. Why is this a question?

4.) Noah will remain an important asset to the Knicks and his contract will not be stretched.

5.) Knicks will make the playoffs starting next year (assuming no chemistry killing injuries/cosmic misfirings).


Idiots.

I really like Herring. I enjoyed his Knick coverage when he was with the wsj but I didn't always agree with him. I think Begley might be the best beat reporter for the Knicks. Pelton is just a stat nerd who offers awesome insight. I think it was a great panel. I don't remember Herring or Begley's takes on the offseason moves prior to this past season but Pelton was very much against the Noah deal and the Rose signing. But his takes are almost scientific/no agenda.

In regards to the Knicks making the playoffs starting next year, I see no way that this happens with the current management team. I will clarify, I don't think this happens if they chase the 8th seed and go for stars and I don't think this happens if they go for younger players. I also don't think Noah will be an important asset to the Knicks. I love prime Noah but I think that ship has sailed. I hope I am wrong but I think that deal haunts the Knicks beyond Phil's tenure

I think there's way too much of a Greek chorus going on with Knicks coverage. I think a lot of it has to do with click-bait teasers and inciteful headlines. But the other is more insipid and that is the lack of thinking being put into what is being said. Sports reporting has fallen prey to what happens with political reporting - absurd shouting matches that always end with a Hitler story arc.

Phil has become their Hitler endpoint. Its like reading a great fiction story that leaves you anticipating a great ending and the final line is, "and it was all a dream". In these forums, its "Melo and Phil must go!"

The narrative that "Melo AND Phil must go" makes NO sense whatsoever. On what planet in what company does the President of a corporation quit because a line employee refuses to follow directions? How ridiculous can this storyline get?

And why aren't reporters held responsible for writing malicious fictions that destroy careers? And to apply the same standards, why isn't the President of Disney addressing the issue? Shouldn't they both "go".

Okay. Let's put that stuff aside.

Look Noah is an expensive asset, no argument. When I talk about him being a valuable asset though I'm really talking about him becoming a mentor for the bigmen and an impact player off the bench. I doubt he'll start with any regularity again. And I think in the playoffs he will play heroically much to the delight of the fans.

That said. Sure his fiscal contract is onerous but NBA onerous contracts are a dime a dozen. His contract is no less movable than many others. It won't happen this coming season but he'll eventually become attractive for trade somewhere down the line.

I don't think the management team has been the Knicks problem. Easy to say I know. But I don't think Phil has any aspiration to finish eighth. I think he's looking for middle of the pack [first] and I think its doable. It should have happened this year. I don't think Phil will chase stars but instead will chase solid contributors. The Knicks are very close to a tipping point for changing losses into wins. A good summer will reverse the recent trajectory.

I appreciate a polite response because I think we disagree on almost everything in regards to the Knicks. When I was able to find a source to read the article, I focused in on two guys, Begley and Pelton. Pelton is not a robot and has very strong opinions but he comes about his opinions in a robotic fashion. He uses analytics and supplements them with the eye test. Pelton's views are totally unbiased and numbers generated. Begley is the espn reporter for the Knicks. He has sources and knows the team as well as anybody. The other two guys are credentialed but I chose the two guys mentioned to focus on.

Well, the analytics guys will give you very myopic but accurate profiles of players on-court patterns. I'm not arguing something like that.

But when *that* myopic viewpoint is projected into the pragmatic decisions that had to be made, I think it turns into malicious disinformation that has turned many fans into a raving lynch mob.

Rose and Noah were always a package deal out of Chicago. Phil wanted to fulfill an obligation to Melo to bring in some FA vets. The FA pool wasn't there for the Knicks. Looking around, nor was there an opportunity to trade for a quality point guard. In that context, taking a chance on Rose and Noah made sense for the Knicks within Melo's window. Rose and Noah netted Courtney Lee and Holiday (a revelation).

And its easy to see that the team clicked early and coulda, shoulda, woulda made the playoffs with a little leadership from its so-called star. They wouldn't have won a ring but they would have been entertaining.

SO. Any reporter who in retrospect or even in real time would have to perform some historical forensics and come up with a plausible alternative plan to acquire talent to surround Melo with in a last-ditch effort to win with Melo. AND, it should be noted, that many players and executives around the league [in realtime] applauded the signings as a worthwhile risk including Mr. Excitement, Melo.

So, when I say that the pool of reporters is biased toward the lynch mob mentality, I think I'm being accurate. There are individuals out there who can lend balance to the discussion. A balance it deserves given the bonfires of the vanities that these haters have been feeding.

Phil wanted Noah. Getting him was not fulfilling an obligation to Melo. Noah and Phil are simpatico. Phil is responsible for the moves that he made. He is responsible for giving Melo one of only 3 ntc in existence in the nba. He is responsible for the bad trades and bad signings. He is responsible for doing things that were immediately called out as stupid moves before the team ever practiced together.

Then you will graciously give him credit for all of the positive consequences that create a winning team next year. After all, HE IS RESPONSIBLE for that too.

Absolutely. Things I like that Phil has done, hiring Mike Miller in Westchester, use of the dleague, bringing in Gaines, drafting KP and Willy, finding end of the bench guys from the udfa pool.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
Swishfm3
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4/23/2017  11:16 AM
EnySpree wrote:
franco12 wrote:I think Phil has this season to proof something to Dolan. I don't know if Dolan has given Phil an ultimatum. I don't know what needs to happen for Phil to stay beyond this year.

He's under contract for 2 more years... you guys gotta get the drama out of your head. It doesn't have to be a novela episode for everything

The same can be said for the folks asking to trade or get rid of Melo when he has a NTC.

nixluva
Posts: 56258
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4/23/2017  11:24 AM
Swishfm3 wrote:
EnySpree wrote:
franco12 wrote:I think Phil has this season to proof something to Dolan. I don't know if Dolan has given Phil an ultimatum. I don't know what needs to happen for Phil to stay beyond this year.

He's under contract for 2 more years... you guys gotta get the drama out of your head. It doesn't have to be a novela episode for everything

The same can be said for the folks asking to trade or get rid of Melo when he has a NTC.

That NTC is really only an ego boost once you get to the point where a team feels they can afford to lose without you. Melo simply won't risk destroying his brand by staying with a rebuilding team that doesn't want him!!!

They can't just trade him but they don't have to play him either. What does Melo gain by staying and having more drama and negativity? He WINS if he can go to a new team that actually wants him!!!

Insider Article:5 on 5 Can the Knicks tame chaos, trade Melo, and start winning agaain?

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