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The True Status Of The Knicks
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Paris907
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4/20/2017  4:49 PM
I e been a fan 50 years. Phil is Dolins shield. Yet despite some blunders, Phil as much as any coach in the league, knows what a great team looks like and plays like, albeit with superstars. My sense is that despite Noah, and Melo and other mistakes like Rose, they'll come around to a competitive playoff team. Yet it will take time ... say 20-21 and this draft needs a player who is competitive and ideally a PG who can lead. I am an optimist and refuse to muddythe waters with media drivel
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nixluva
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4/20/2017  5:00 PM
HofstraBBall wrote:
fishmike wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:It's good that we have a few Knick fans , like you, that are pleased with the current status of the team. You guys are a dying breed. Question for you Nix, as it's pointless to argue our opposing views of the direction of the franchise....

What type of trades/moves/player protests would make you feel we might be heading in the wrong direction? How many more losing years would you take before saying it might not be working?

sorry to single you out as you are not the only one who does this, but it is clear of the Phil must die crowd.

You may have read his words but you didnt listen at all.

Lets look again at some direct quotes:

Phil is trying to build...
Phil wants a foundation of Defense...
This again is a recipe for future success...
How can anyone argue against building with these principles going forward?

Do any of these indicate Nix is "pleased with the current status?"

No... he never says that, nor indicates it. He simply said the situation is not as bad as some would spout daily (you among them), and that what Phil is TRYING to do is good. The plan and implementing the plan are two different things. Your response was to ask questions based on what you HEARD, not what Nix actually WROTE.

Sorry. Phil is not saying he loves Phil or that Phil's doing a great job. He's saying Phil has the right goals, and isnt as far away as some think to accomplishing some of those goal. Very different than what you are suggesting.

No need to apologize. Heated banter is why we come on here. I now Know Nix is a true Knick fan. Not just a guy trolling in a player. Which i thought he was.

I think for me, it is more than Phil. It's about Dolan. From day one I thought Dolan went with yet another big name regardless of positional experience. To me it was a red flag that his own Laker adopted family did not give him more control. hesitancy of Lakers to hire him, his ego and player relations were also a concern. But like I said, it's personal opinion that has been reinforced by his shortcomings.

As for the right goals. Agree about defense needing to be the foundation. However, its hard to believe in his defensive commitment once he passed on bringing in a defense minded coach. Which i hoped he would have. Also, choosing Rambo as his defensive coach is not exactly a huge endorsement to his commitment to defense. Just have seen this too many times before. Dolan hires some shield for a few years, one that does not have the energy or commitment to be here for the long haul. But I hope you guys are right.

It's not just about having a defensive minded Head Coach. Thibs wasn't able to get his team to play good D and he's about the best there is, so there's more to it than that.

With regard to the Defense Phil and his Scouts are focused on adding good On Ball Defenders. This is absolutely necessary to eventually build a great defensive team. He's finally going to have a chance to bring in young talent that has the right kind of game. Just because the previous players didn't work out doesn't mean that Phil doesn't understand what kind of players we need and that he won't eventually be successful in getting the right players.

On a smaller level LT, Holiday, Baker types are exactly what he's talking about. Now we need to add some Legit Starting level Talent that also has the right defensive ability and approach to the game. That's going to have to come thru the draft and hopefully a smart FA signing or trade, but he's focused on this.

Nalod
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4/20/2017  5:26 PM
HofstraBBall wrote:
fishmike wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:It's good that we have a few Knick fans , like you, that are pleased with the current status of the team. You guys are a dying breed. Question for you Nix, as it's pointless to argue our opposing views of the direction of the franchise....

What type of trades/moves/player protests would make you feel we might be heading in the wrong direction? How many more losing years would you take before saying it might not be working?

sorry to single you out as you are not the only one who does this, but it is clear of the Phil must die crowd.

You may have read his words but you didnt listen at all.

Lets look again at some direct quotes:

Phil is trying to build...
Phil wants a foundation of Defense...
This again is a recipe for future success...
How can anyone argue against building with these principles going forward?

Do any of these indicate Nix is "pleased with the current status?"

No... he never says that, nor indicates it. He simply said the situation is not as bad as some would spout daily (you among them), and that what Phil is TRYING to do is good. The plan and implementing the plan are two different things. Your response was to ask questions based on what you HEARD, not what Nix actually WROTE.

Sorry. Phil is not saying he loves Phil or that Phil's doing a great job. He's saying Phil has the right goals, and isnt as far away as some think to accomplishing some of those goal. Very different than what you are suggesting.

No need to apologize. Heated banter is why we come on here. I now Know Nix is a true Knick fan. Not just a guy trolling in a player. Which i thought he was.

I think for me, it is more than Phil. It's about Dolan. From day one I thought Dolan went with yet another big name regardless of positional experience. To me it was a red flag that his own Laker adopted family did not give him more control. hesitancy of Lakers to hire him, his ego and player relations were also a concern. But like I said, it's personal opinion that has been reinforced by his shortcomings.

As for the right goals. Agree about defense needing to be the foundation. However, its hard to believe in his defensive commitment once he passed on bringing in a defense minded coach. Which i hoped he would have. Also, choosing Rambo as his defensive coach is not exactly a huge endorsement to his commitment to defense. Just have seen this too many times before. Dolan hires some shield for a few years, one that does not have the energy or commitment to be here for the long haul. But I hope you guys are right.

part of the laker dysfunction was Jimmy Buss trying to have input on the team and carving out some shred of self esteem. Phil was with Jeannie and to have him run the team was a consolidation of power that would have tipped the balance. Look at how they just got their shyt together needing lawyers and lawsuits. That was my validation of why he sought out something to do outside of the lakers. Maybe if Dwight would have sayed if phil did get that gig as well.
But to say "Lakers passed on him validates why I think PHil is bad" is not entirely accurate". Woj, or others do not validate it either. They are paid to have a take.

Am I happy? 31 wins? Hell no. As fish said, and I agree, good decisions don't always have good outcomes. The process is not the same as previous, we have yoots, we have a dleague and we have all our picks.
As for the stepping on the court and ripping the soul from his coaches? Im not so sure its as big a deal as it is players out for their own purpose. The "Skills vs Team" practice discussion was good and perhaps puts things in perspective. Good teams like SAS can absorb players as they know what they are getting into. Some like aldridge will get paid and know the deal going in. SOmeone like Shump, a free agent to be would be conflicted to put team before his stats in a contract year. We are not even close to that, so its even harder to start.

If thats Phils vision, Im ok with that even if it has not been effective yet.

Anger sells, don't buy!
fishmike
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4/20/2017  5:37 PM
HofstraBBall wrote:
fishmike wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:It's good that we have a few Knick fans , like you, that are pleased with the current status of the team. You guys are a dying breed. Question for you Nix, as it's pointless to argue our opposing views of the direction of the franchise....

What type of trades/moves/player protests would make you feel we might be heading in the wrong direction? How many more losing years would you take before saying it might not be working?

sorry to single you out as you are not the only one who does this, but it is clear of the Phil must die crowd.

You may have read his words but you didnt listen at all.

Lets look again at some direct quotes:

Phil is trying to build...
Phil wants a foundation of Defense...
This again is a recipe for future success...
How can anyone argue against building with these principles going forward?

Do any of these indicate Nix is "pleased with the current status?"

No... he never says that, nor indicates it. He simply said the situation is not as bad as some would spout daily (you among them), and that what Phil is TRYING to do is good. The plan and implementing the plan are two different things. Your response was to ask questions based on what you HEARD, not what Nix actually WROTE.

Sorry. Phil is not saying he loves Phil or that Phil's doing a great job. He's saying Phil has the right goals, and isnt as far away as some think to accomplishing some of those goal. Very different than what you are suggesting.

No need to apologize. Heated banter is why we come on here. I now Know Nix is a true Knick fan. Not just a guy trolling in a player. Which i thought he was.

I think for me, it is more than Phil. It's about Dolan. From day one I thought Dolan went with yet another big name regardless of positional experience. To me it was a red flag that his own Laker adopted family did not give him more control. hesitancy of Lakers to hire him, his ego and player relations were also a concern. But like I said, it's personal opinion that has been reinforced by his shortcomings.

As for the right goals. Agree about defense needing to be the foundation. However, its hard to believe in his defensive commitment once he passed on bringing in a defense minded coach. Which i hoped he would have. Also, choosing Rambo as his defensive coach is not exactly a huge endorsement to his commitment to defense. Just have seen this too many times before. Dolan hires some shield for a few years, one that does not have the energy or commitment to be here for the long haul. But I hope you guys are right.

dude those are all fair points. Every one. Phil has totally phucked up with the coaching. I think its especially clear that when it comes to coaching the Knicks both Fish and Phil had good things but couldnt work it out. That is totally on Phil.

I have no endorsement. I am patient though.

No Dolan
Continues to get young and value the draft
Has not followed any mold of player or prospect. Seems open on talent.
It will be a big offseason.
There is a lottery pick.
There will be a Melo trade.
There will be a chunk of cap space. I am not projecting one way or another, but the Knicks are very fluid right now. Things are going to change very quickly, yet many of these guys will return, and will return the year after that as well. Some of them I believe in. Others are wait and see.
I love KP and Willy.

If we had the Lance from last year I honestly think we are .500 and in the playoffs. I love Lance and hope his health isnt an issue. If Noah and Lance are healthy this is a different conversation. Yes I agree that Noah's inability to get on the court is on Phil. He signed a guy with an injury history. However I dont see this a McDyess part II. Yes Noah is costly, but even if he's half the player he will be incredibly valuable playing with KP and Willy and possibly Plumlee if he sticks.


Those are the bullet points that allow me to be comfortable with simply a wait and see approach. That is not an endorsement of anything Phil has done here. I just dont think its that bad and Phil has put us in a position for things to turn around very quickly. That does not mean they WILL, so I give Phil ZERO CREDIT at this point. But we will see offers from 3 teams for Melo. We will draft a lottery player and some #2s. We have a chunk of cap space. Its going to be a big offseason. Lets see what happens. Thats it man!

fishmike - Making UltimateKnicks great again
HofstraBBall
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4/20/2017  5:45 PM
nixluva wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
fishmike wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:It's good that we have a few Knick fans , like you, that are pleased with the current status of the team. You guys are a dying breed. Question for you Nix, as it's pointless to argue our opposing views of the direction of the franchise....

What type of trades/moves/player protests would make you feel we might be heading in the wrong direction? How many more losing years would you take before saying it might not be working?

sorry to single you out as you are not the only one who does this, but it is clear of the Phil must die crowd.

You may have read his words but you didnt listen at all.

Lets look again at some direct quotes:

Phil is trying to build...
Phil wants a foundation of Defense...
This again is a recipe for future success...
How can anyone argue against building with these principles going forward?

Do any of these indicate Nix is "pleased with the current status?"

No... he never says that, nor indicates it. He simply said the situation is not as bad as some would spout daily (you among them), and that what Phil is TRYING to do is good. The plan and implementing the plan are two different things. Your response was to ask questions based on what you HEARD, not what Nix actually WROTE.

Sorry. Phil is not saying he loves Phil or that Phil's doing a great job. He's saying Phil has the right goals, and isnt as far away as some think to accomplishing some of those goal. Very different than what you are suggesting.

No need to apologize. Heated banter is why we come on here. I now Know Nix is a true Knick fan. Not just a guy trolling in a player. Which i thought he was.

I think for me, it is more than Phil. It's about Dolan. From day one I thought Dolan went with yet another big name regardless of positional experience. To me it was a red flag that his own Laker adopted family did not give him more control. hesitancy of Lakers to hire him, his ego and player relations were also a concern. But like I said, it's personal opinion that has been reinforced by his shortcomings.

As for the right goals. Agree about defense needing to be the foundation. However, its hard to believe in his defensive commitment once he passed on bringing in a defense minded coach. Which i hoped he would have. Also, choosing Rambo as his defensive coach is not exactly a huge endorsement to his commitment to defense. Just have seen this too many times before. Dolan hires some shield for a few years, one that does not have the energy or commitment to be here for the long haul. But I hope you guys are right.

It's not just about having a defensive minded Head Coach. Thibs wasn't able to get his team to play good D and he's about the best there is, so there's more to it than that.

With regard to the Defense Phil and his Scouts are focused on adding good On Ball Defenders. This is absolutely necessary to eventually build a great defensive team. He's finally going to have a chance to bring in young talent that has the right kind of game. Just because the previous players didn't work out doesn't mean that Phil doesn't understand what kind of players we need and that he won't eventually be successful in getting the right players.

On a smaller level LT, Holiday, Baker types are exactly what he's talking about. Now we need to add some Legit Starting level Talent that also has the right defensive ability and approach to the game. That's going to have to come thru the draft and hopefully a smart FA signing or trade, but he's focused on this.

Don't think its fair to give Thibs one year for a turnaround yet excuse Phil in his 3rd. Again, just don't think Phil is or will be the answer. Still think we will be starting all over in 2 more years. But agree, its time to focus on the summer draft and the possibility we can improve.

Melo Haters = Lin lovers who are mad Houston paid so much for his 15 Minutes,
HofstraBBall
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4/20/2017  6:00 PM
fishmike wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
fishmike wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:It's good that we have a few Knick fans , like you, that are pleased with the current status of the team. You guys are a dying breed. Question for you Nix, as it's pointless to argue our opposing views of the direction of the franchise....

What type of trades/moves/player protests would make you feel we might be heading in the wrong direction? How many more losing years would you take before saying it might not be working?

sorry to single you out as you are not the only one who does this, but it is clear of the Phil must die crowd.

You may have read his words but you didnt listen at all.

Lets look again at some direct quotes:

Phil is trying to build...
Phil wants a foundation of Defense...
This again is a recipe for future success...
How can anyone argue against building with these principles going forward?

Do any of these indicate Nix is "pleased with the current status?"

No... he never says that, nor indicates it. He simply said the situation is not as bad as some would spout daily (you among them), and that what Phil is TRYING to do is good. The plan and implementing the plan are two different things. Your response was to ask questions based on what you HEARD, not what Nix actually WROTE.

Sorry. Phil is not saying he loves Phil or that Phil's doing a great job. He's saying Phil has the right goals, and isnt as far away as some think to accomplishing some of those goal. Very different than what you are suggesting.

No need to apologize. Heated banter is why we come on here. I now Know Nix is a true Knick fan. Not just a guy trolling in a player. Which i thought he was.

I think for me, it is more than Phil. It's about Dolan. From day one I thought Dolan went with yet another big name regardless of positional experience. To me it was a red flag that his own Laker adopted family did not give him more control. hesitancy of Lakers to hire him, his ego and player relations were also a concern. But like I said, it's personal opinion that has been reinforced by his shortcomings.

As for the right goals. Agree about defense needing to be the foundation. However, its hard to believe in his defensive commitment once he passed on bringing in a defense minded coach. Which i hoped he would have. Also, choosing Rambo as his defensive coach is not exactly a huge endorsement to his commitment to defense. Just have seen this too many times before. Dolan hires some shield for a few years, one that does not have the energy or commitment to be here for the long haul. But I hope you guys are right.

dude those are all fair points. Every one. Phil has totally phucked up with the coaching. I think its especially clear that when it comes to coaching the Knicks both Fish and Phil had good things but couldnt work it out. That is totally on Phil.

I have no endorsement. I am patient though.

No Dolan
Continues to get young and value the draft
Has not followed any mold of player or prospect. Seems open on talent.
It will be a big offseason.
There is a lottery pick.
There will be a Melo trade.
There will be a chunk of cap space. I am not projecting one way or another, but the Knicks are very fluid right now. Things are going to change very quickly, yet many of these guys will return, and will return the year after that as well. Some of them I believe in. Others are wait and see.
I love KP and Willy.

If we had the Lance from last year I honestly think we are .500 and in the playoffs. I love Lance and hope his health isnt an issue. If Noah and Lance are healthy this is a different conversation. Yes I agree that Noah's inability to get on the court is on Phil. He signed a guy with an injury history. However I dont see this a McDyess part II. Yes Noah is costly, but even if he's half the player he will be incredibly valuable playing with KP and Willy and possibly Plumlee if he sticks.


Those are the bullet points that allow me to be comfortable with simply a wait and see approach. That is not an endorsement of anything Phil has done here. I just dont think its that bad and Phil has put us in a position for things to turn around very quickly. That does not mean they WILL, so I give Phil ZERO CREDIT at this point. But we will see offers from 3 teams for Melo. We will draft a lottery player and some #2s. We have a chunk of cap space. Its going to be a big offseason. Lets see what happens. Thats it man!

Agree with most. Like Willy and KP as well. Think we wont get much for Melo. Still think Melo was not to blame but feel his body has broken down and needs to be in a different situation. Seems like draft will be less of a crap shoot. Although we have said that many times before. Will be interesting to see if and which FA's are opened to the Knicks.

Keeping Phil out of conversation, my worries for next year are:
How KP and Willy will fit defensively together.
Noah's contract and health.
Fact KP and by extention...Willy(as they are close) do not have a favorable opinion of the organization.
Who we can add in free agent market to replace Melo's scoring ability.

Hopes
We do well in draft. Like Tatum, Isaac, Smith.
Get young up and coming player and a draft pick for Melo.
We unload Noah.
We sign the Holiday brothers.
Boston and Clips lose in 1st round and get desperate to add Melo.

Will focus on the positives.

Melo Haters = Lin lovers who are mad Houston paid so much for his 15 Minutes,
nixluva
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4/20/2017  6:02 PM
HofstraBBall wrote:
nixluva wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
fishmike wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:It's good that we have a few Knick fans , like you, that are pleased with the current status of the team. You guys are a dying breed. Question for you Nix, as it's pointless to argue our opposing views of the direction of the franchise....

What type of trades/moves/player protests would make you feel we might be heading in the wrong direction? How many more losing years would you take before saying it might not be working?

sorry to single you out as you are not the only one who does this, but it is clear of the Phil must die crowd.

You may have read his words but you didnt listen at all.

Lets look again at some direct quotes:

Phil is trying to build...
Phil wants a foundation of Defense...
This again is a recipe for future success...
How can anyone argue against building with these principles going forward?

Do any of these indicate Nix is "pleased with the current status?"

No... he never says that, nor indicates it. He simply said the situation is not as bad as some would spout daily (you among them), and that what Phil is TRYING to do is good. The plan and implementing the plan are two different things. Your response was to ask questions based on what you HEARD, not what Nix actually WROTE.

Sorry. Phil is not saying he loves Phil or that Phil's doing a great job. He's saying Phil has the right goals, and isnt as far away as some think to accomplishing some of those goal. Very different than what you are suggesting.

No need to apologize. Heated banter is why we come on here. I now Know Nix is a true Knick fan. Not just a guy trolling in a player. Which i thought he was.

I think for me, it is more than Phil. It's about Dolan. From day one I thought Dolan went with yet another big name regardless of positional experience. To me it was a red flag that his own Laker adopted family did not give him more control. hesitancy of Lakers to hire him, his ego and player relations were also a concern. But like I said, it's personal opinion that has been reinforced by his shortcomings.

As for the right goals. Agree about defense needing to be the foundation. However, its hard to believe in his defensive commitment once he passed on bringing in a defense minded coach. Which i hoped he would have. Also, choosing Rambo as his defensive coach is not exactly a huge endorsement to his commitment to defense. Just have seen this too many times before. Dolan hires some shield for a few years, one that does not have the energy or commitment to be here for the long haul. But I hope you guys are right.

It's not just about having a defensive minded Head Coach. Thibs wasn't able to get his team to play good D and he's about the best there is, so there's more to it than that.

With regard to the Defense Phil and his Scouts are focused on adding good On Ball Defenders. This is absolutely necessary to eventually build a great defensive team. He's finally going to have a chance to bring in young talent that has the right kind of game. Just because the previous players didn't work out doesn't mean that Phil doesn't understand what kind of players we need and that he won't eventually be successful in getting the right players.

On a smaller level LT, Holiday, Baker types are exactly what he's talking about. Now we need to add some Legit Starting level Talent that also has the right defensive ability and approach to the game. That's going to have to come thru the draft and hopefully a smart FA signing or trade, but he's focused on this.

Don't think its fair to give Thibs one year for a turnaround yet excuse Phil in his 3rd. Again, just don't think Phil is or will be the answer. Still think we will be starting all over in 2 more years. But agree, its time to focus on the summer draft and the possibility we can improve.

It's not about one year versus 3! The point is that if Thibs came here instead of Jeff that doesn't mean Thibs would've been a lock to succeed getting the Knicks to defend just cuz he's known as a great defensive coach.

You're pessimism is interesting considering we are in the Lottery and have a chance to add another legit talent. Also the fact that the team did start to figure some things out and ended the season on a good note on the court.

Contrary to popular belief KP isn't trying to skip out of town and Phil and Jeff are actually on the same page!

yellowboy90
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4/20/2017  6:13 PM
nixluva wrote:There has been a LOT of Media Narrative that the Knicks are in disarray and there's dysfunction and disharmony but I don't agree with this. The evidence is slanted much more heavily that the franchise is laying the foundation for a stronger future and they are more in sync on the whole.

Phil and Jeff are on the same page now and it's only a good thing. Phil approves of the tweaks Jeff has employed to the Triangle despite the Media narrative that Phil isn't going to let Jeff coach. Phil just wants there to be a fundamental base which we did see taking hold as the season came to an end.

“I let Jeff do what he wanted to do — an agreement to try to blend what we call whatever that flow, fastbreak, early shooting offense into something formatted,’’ Jackson said. “We kind of let it roll until things didn’t roll well before we [said it] looks like we need some more fundamentals, more function towards the end of a game. They showed at the end of season they started being able to do some of that.’’
http://nypost.com/2017/04/15/phil-jackson-wresting-control-of-knicks-back-from-jeff-hornacek/

Phil is trying to build a team that is built on Ball and Player movement and Defense. If you ignore the Media narrative of what he's done and really look at the team you can see the beginnings of the kind of team he wants and it was looking better as the kids got more of a chance to play. He's going to be looking to add more Team Oriented 2 Way players this summer.

“I like the backbone of what we have,’’ Jackson added later in the session. “You can see what we’ve got. Guys like Ron [Baker] and Chasson [Randle] and Willy Hernangomez, and the kids we’re bringing into this organization have a certain sense of how to play in the structure, the way we want to play.

“I think we’re moving in that direction. It’s not fast enough, obviously to carry the day, but I think we’re going to get there.’’

What fans should expect to see out of the Knicks next season: “Playing hard like we played the last five, six games. Guys getting up into people, playing hard, pick up full court at times. You know, ball movement, activity instead of standing. Those type of things. That’s what they’re going to see more of.’’

For me it was more like the last 9 games after they came back from the Road Trip. They didn't win them all of course but they did play harder and more together as a group as Phil said. It was a 4-5 stretch where we saw all the elements of what Phil wants this team to become starting to form.


Mon. 27 vs Pistons 95 - 109 W
Wed. 29 vs Heat 105 - 88 L
Sat. 01 at Heat 94 - 98 W
APRIL
Sun. 02 vs Celtics 110 - 94 L
Wed. 05 vs Bulls 91 - 100 W
Thu. 06 vs Wizards 106 - 103 L
Sat. 08 at Grizzlies 101 - 88 L
Sun. 09 vs Raptors 110 - 97 L
Thu. 13 vs 76ers 113 - 114 W

The future of Carmelo Anthony: “We will take into account his consideration. I told him this is not a situation where we’re going to dump you or do anything like that. We’re looking to improve ourselves however we can. We have not been able to win. And that’s our priority, to win.

“Our meeting was not contentious at all. And it was cordial. We have not been able to win with him on the court at this time. And I think the direction with our team, he is a player that would be better off somewhere else and using his talents somewhere where he can win or chase that championship.”

http://www.msgnetworks.com/2017/04/14/takeaways-from-jacksons-year-in-review/

Clearly he indicated to Melo that the team is going to be rebuilding for the most part. This is not a BAD THING as some are trying to paint it. Phil wants a foundation of Defense and Team Ball and there's nothing bad about that. He is thinking long term and also being more competitive in the short term.

Phil spoke about the importance or scouting for stronger On Ball Defenders as they look at the draft. This again is a recipe for future success. The more young talent he can find that plays that way the better. How can anyone argue against building with these principles going forward?

I'm sorry but what other sources are you bringing to the table besides Phil? Have you talked to anyone about what is going on. Are we suppose to take Jackson words as gospel? You expect people to believe in someone who said this.

The future of Carmelo Anthony: “We will take into account his consideration. I told him this is not a situation where we’re going to dump you or do anything like that. We’re looking to improve ourselves however we can. We have not been able to win. And that’s our priority, to win.

How condescending and disingenuous to tell someone this and then say it to the media like you are going to try and do right by a player when you gave him the power with the NTC to veto any deal he doesn't like.

I need to see Phil actions match his words.

knicks1248
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4/20/2017  6:17 PM
nixluva wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
nixluva wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
fishmike wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:It's good that we have a few Knick fans , like you, that are pleased with the current status of the team. You guys are a dying breed. Question for you Nix, as it's pointless to argue our opposing views of the direction of the franchise....

What type of trades/moves/player protests would make you feel we might be heading in the wrong direction? How many more losing years would you take before saying it might not be working?

sorry to single you out as you are not the only one who does this, but it is clear of the Phil must die crowd.

You may have read his words but you didnt listen at all.

Lets look again at some direct quotes:

Phil is trying to build...
Phil wants a foundation of Defense...
This again is a recipe for future success...
How can anyone argue against building with these principles going forward?

Do any of these indicate Nix is "pleased with the current status?"

No... he never says that, nor indicates it. He simply said the situation is not as bad as some would spout daily (you among them), and that what Phil is TRYING to do is good. The plan and implementing the plan are two different things. Your response was to ask questions based on what you HEARD, not what Nix actually WROTE.

Sorry. Phil is not saying he loves Phil or that Phil's doing a great job. He's saying Phil has the right goals, and isnt as far away as some think to accomplishing some of those goal. Very different than what you are suggesting.

No need to apologize. Heated banter is why we come on here. I now Know Nix is a true Knick fan. Not just a guy trolling in a player. Which i thought he was.

I think for me, it is more than Phil. It's about Dolan. From day one I thought Dolan went with yet another big name regardless of positional experience. To me it was a red flag that his own Laker adopted family did not give him more control. hesitancy of Lakers to hire him, his ego and player relations were also a concern. But like I said, it's personal opinion that has been reinforced by his shortcomings.

As for the right goals. Agree about defense needing to be the foundation. However, its hard to believe in his defensive commitment once he passed on bringing in a defense minded coach. Which i hoped he would have. Also, choosing Rambo as his defensive coach is not exactly a huge endorsement to his commitment to defense. Just have seen this too many times before. Dolan hires some shield for a few years, one that does not have the energy or commitment to be here for the long haul. But I hope you guys are right.

It's not just about having a defensive minded Head Coach. Thibs wasn't able to get his team to play good D and he's about the best there is, so there's more to it than that.

With regard to the Defense Phil and his Scouts are focused on adding good On Ball Defenders. This is absolutely necessary to eventually build a great defensive team. He's finally going to have a chance to bring in young talent that has the right kind of game. Just because the previous players didn't work out doesn't mean that Phil doesn't understand what kind of players we need and that he won't eventually be successful in getting the right players.

On a smaller level LT, Holiday, Baker types are exactly what he's talking about. Now we need to add some Legit Starting level Talent that also has the right defensive ability and approach to the game. That's going to have to come thru the draft and hopefully a smart FA signing or trade, but he's focused on this.

Don't think its fair to give Thibs one year for a turnaround yet excuse Phil in his 3rd. Again, just don't think Phil is or will be the answer. Still think we will be starting all over in 2 more years. But agree, its time to focus on the summer draft and the possibility we can improve.

It's not about one year versus 3! The point is that if Thibs came here instead of Jeff that doesn't mean Thibs would've been a lock to succeed getting the Knicks to defend just cuz he's known as a great defensive coach.

You're pessimism is interesting considering we are in the Lottery and have a chance to add another legit talent. Also the fact that the team did start to figure some things out and ended the season on a good note on the court.

Contrary to popular belief KP isn't trying to skip out of town and Phil and Jeff are actually on the same page!

You said the same thing about fisher right up until he was fired, then you flipped it around like he deserved to be fired a day after.

ES
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4/20/2017  6:34 PM
crzymdups wrote:
fishmike wrote:
crzymdups wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Nalod wrote:To some, if you don't want Phil fired, your content.
Actually some of us are rooted in the reality that is two year contract and the understanding of the task at hand.
Nalod not happy with 31 win season.

same

I don't think you guys are content. I'm just astounded you have faith left in him after three years of this.

He's been saying the same thing for three years. The problem is his actions.

I don't care what Phil says at press conferences. I care what he does. What's he's done is undermine two coaches, sign mediocre or worse free agents, trade away talent and get less in return, alienate both the veteran star and the young star of the team. He's drafted a few good picks, particularly KP and hopefully Willy - though they play basically the same position, so again the question is where's the logic for building a team?

If I may - it seems like you guys think anyone who is unhappy or frustrated with Phil "has an AGENDA", loves Melo, or is just trolling or blindly hating.

It ain't like that. People are genuinely frustrated and don't have much faith left in Phil to do this. Roland Lazenby, if you read the other tweets I posted in that thread, says Phil is a genius... but not very good with other people, he likes to enforce his will. Maybe that works as a coach, but not so well in the front office. It wouldn't be the first time. Even Lazenby, who is a Phil and Triangle fan and has written biographies about Phil, Kobe, and Michael Jordan has said this situation is a mess. The coaching situation is a mess. The implementation of the Triangle is a continual mess. He's rooting for it to succeed, but even he says Phil has to acknowledge and address some of his mistakes going forward. Again, he's Phil so he'll probably say some weird **** and I don't really care what he says - the issue is how he addresses it going forward.

If Phil figures this out, I'll give him full credit. But this has been body blow after body blow of terrible decisions. Even on a Lakers podcast the other day, the host was like "yeah everything Phil has done outside of drafting KP has been completely mystifying". So it's not just haters here or guys with an agenda. It's people watching and wondering.

I'm rooting for the Knicks to succeed. I haven't seen much from Phil to give me faith it can happen here. Like I said, if he does figure it out, I'll be the first to give him credit. But to argue he has figured it out or that we're on the right path.... is a little much. Has he even spoken to KP since the end of the season? I'd say part of being on the right path would be to be on speaking terms with the only hope of the franchise.

because you cant tell the difference between a bad move and a move that didnt work.

Just like you loved the Grant trade at the draft. Two years later you are calling that move trash. It wasnt. It was a good move that didnt work out. There is a difference. Knicks traded a SG who regressed and shot 37% and didnt defend for a position of need and a player you liked. That was a good move that made sense. It didnt work out.
Of Shump, JR, Tyson.. the core guys we traded away for nothing who do you want here getting paid what they are getting paid? Those guys all signed big deals so which do you lament losing?

I am equally astounded.
Astounded by the daily complaining about losing players in bad trades that nobody wants on their roster anyway.
Astounded by the loyalty to a player who has never won and quit on coaches while here
Astounded by a fanbase that will lock onto any negative nugget the tabloids pump out grab on like monkeys to shiney objects and treat 5% of the truth as gospel

We could do this all day. Phil has not made good moves, but he has clearly tried to develop talent, value the draft, install a system, and rather than cater to a star player that doesnt play defense and places himself before the team to move along that this isnt the right place for you. He's been the anti-star phuck and has Dolan keeping out of it. It shouldnt be that astounding.

Funny also how the big knock on Phil is he's a great coach but a lousy exec. He doesnt get any time to figure this out? Its been 3 years. We have Willy and KP to show for it. Thats obviously not enough. Contrary to you I HAVE seen enough to stay patient and let see what adjustments he makes. I want what Phil wants.

A tabloid reporting gossip is one thing... Adrian Wojnarowski giving a detailed run down of an organization in disarray on the verge of losing KP is quite another. You have Woj, the most respected basketball reporter in the entire league saying it. You have the guy who write biographies of Phil, Kobe, Michael and followed Phil for his twenty year career saying it.

The main problem, again, which you didn't mention at all - is how he's handled the coaching situation. Namely, he's gotten too overly involved there because he wants the coach to run HIS system. He didn't like the way Fish ran practices because it wasn't how HE would run them. He stepped in and made Hornacek run the Triangle, even though Hornacek has never run it or played in it before. Phil operates as if he's the coach. He should be in a Pop role if that's what he wants. But he is not well enough to do it. And yet... he won't let it go. It's created chaos. That's the thing you can't bring yourself to admit. It'll never work. Everyone who knows the league knows this.

As for the player transactions - we can all disagree and change our minds. I'm not being paid $12M a year or even $500k a year to figure it out, or I might make some different calls. Jerian Grant was a pet favorite of mine in the draft, so I was excited to get him. I was not excited to give up on him less than a year later, primarily because he didn't "get" the Triangle. One of the only games I can even remember from the past two seasons was the game Melo sprained his ankle against a ref in a game at MSG against the Celtics. Knicks were rolling, Melo went down, Celtics came back, Jerian Grant grew up on the court and secured the victory. It was fun to watch. I would not have given up on him for Rose if I were making a business decision about the types of player to build around. I can see the logic of moving Hardaway for Grant... but not the logic of immediately devaluing that pick for a rental/gamble on Rose. Nor doubling down by downgrading from Rolo to Noah. It was horrible basketball business sense. The fan in me wanted it to work... the logical basketball mind in me said it was a terrible gamble. And pretty much every analyst in the league said the same. I'm not going to rehash the Tyson trade for the umpteenth time, nor the Shump/JR giveaway that got Lebron a ring. He didn't get enough in return - but you know that part.

So, yeah, we'll have to agree to disagree. I can see what you HOPE will happen here with Phil. I really can. And I was on board for a while. But the way he's operated with the coaching is just a non-starter. It's never going to work. My main hope now is that at least we get some good draft picks - the Knicks always draft well when they have picks, because we have like five former very good GMs in the front office and now Gaines, not to mention the scout in Spain who has been on staff since the early 2000s and found KP and Willy.

I hope like hell the Knicks can build something... I'm just not going to ignore my eyes and the screaming feeling in my gut that the coaching setup here is doomed to repeated failure. Hey, like I said, I'd love to be wrong. I promise to do a "Mea Culpa - Phil wins" thread if I am and you guys can all throw rotten tomatoes at me for my wrong opinions while Nalod quotes the Lord of the Rings.

This post is on the Money!!!!

nixluva
Posts: 54675
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4/20/2017  8:13 PM
knicks1248 wrote:
nixluva wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
nixluva wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
fishmike wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:It's good that we have a few Knick fans , like you, that are pleased with the current status of the team. You guys are a dying breed. Question for you Nix, as it's pointless to argue our opposing views of the direction of the franchise....

What type of trades/moves/player protests would make you feel we might be heading in the wrong direction? How many more losing years would you take before saying it might not be working?

sorry to single you out as you are not the only one who does this, but it is clear of the Phil must die crowd.

You may have read his words but you didnt listen at all.

Lets look again at some direct quotes:

Phil is trying to build...
Phil wants a foundation of Defense...
This again is a recipe for future success...
How can anyone argue against building with these principles going forward?

Do any of these indicate Nix is "pleased with the current status?"

No... he never says that, nor indicates it. He simply said the situation is not as bad as some would spout daily (you among them), and that what Phil is TRYING to do is good. The plan and implementing the plan are two different things. Your response was to ask questions based on what you HEARD, not what Nix actually WROTE.

Sorry. Phil is not saying he loves Phil or that Phil's doing a great job. He's saying Phil has the right goals, and isnt as far away as some think to accomplishing some of those goal. Very different than what you are suggesting.

No need to apologize. Heated banter is why we come on here. I now Know Nix is a true Knick fan. Not just a guy trolling in a player. Which i thought he was.

I think for me, it is more than Phil. It's about Dolan. From day one I thought Dolan went with yet another big name regardless of positional experience. To me it was a red flag that his own Laker adopted family did not give him more control. hesitancy of Lakers to hire him, his ego and player relations were also a concern. But like I said, it's personal opinion that has been reinforced by his shortcomings.

As for the right goals. Agree about defense needing to be the foundation. However, its hard to believe in his defensive commitment once he passed on bringing in a defense minded coach. Which i hoped he would have. Also, choosing Rambo as his defensive coach is not exactly a huge endorsement to his commitment to defense. Just have seen this too many times before. Dolan hires some shield for a few years, one that does not have the energy or commitment to be here for the long haul. But I hope you guys are right.

It's not just about having a defensive minded Head Coach. Thibs wasn't able to get his team to play good D and he's about the best there is, so there's more to it than that.

With regard to the Defense Phil and his Scouts are focused on adding good On Ball Defenders. This is absolutely necessary to eventually build a great defensive team. He's finally going to have a chance to bring in young talent that has the right kind of game. Just because the previous players didn't work out doesn't mean that Phil doesn't understand what kind of players we need and that he won't eventually be successful in getting the right players.

On a smaller level LT, Holiday, Baker types are exactly what he's talking about. Now we need to add some Legit Starting level Talent that also has the right defensive ability and approach to the game. That's going to have to come thru the draft and hopefully a smart FA signing or trade, but he's focused on this.

Don't think its fair to give Thibs one year for a turnaround yet excuse Phil in his 3rd. Again, just don't think Phil is or will be the answer. Still think we will be starting all over in 2 more years. But agree, its time to focus on the summer draft and the possibility we can improve.

It's not about one year versus 3! The point is that if Thibs came here instead of Jeff that doesn't mean Thibs would've been a lock to succeed getting the Knicks to defend just cuz he's known as a great defensive coach.

You're pessimism is interesting considering we are in the Lottery and have a chance to add another legit talent. Also the fact that the team did start to figure some things out and ended the season on a good note on the court.

Contrary to popular belief KP isn't trying to skip out of town and Phil and Jeff are actually on the same page!

You said the same thing about fisher right up until he was fired, then you flipped it around like he deserved to be fired a day after.

Don't do that!!! This isn't about Fisher and Phil. Jeff and Phil are on the same page and Phil COMPLIMENTED Jeff's work on the offense and how the team finished the season. You can't compare what happened with Fisher and what is going on with Jeff.

This is the problem we all keep having. You have to accept the truth at some point. If Phil was messing up Jeff and not allowing Jeff to do his thing then you would see that in how the team played to close the season. Instead we saw Spread PnR, Motion and Ball Movement. We saw young players getting after it on D and coming together. That's a start on next year and a good sign.

nixluva
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4/20/2017  8:19 PM
yellowboy90 wrote:
nixluva wrote:There has been a LOT of Media Narrative that the Knicks are in disarray and there's dysfunction and disharmony but I don't agree with this. The evidence is slanted much more heavily that the franchise is laying the foundation for a stronger future and they are more in sync on the whole.

Phil and Jeff are on the same page now and it's only a good thing. Phil approves of the tweaks Jeff has employed to the Triangle despite the Media narrative that Phil isn't going to let Jeff coach. Phil just wants there to be a fundamental base which we did see taking hold as the season came to an end.

“I let Jeff do what he wanted to do — an agreement to try to blend what we call whatever that flow, fastbreak, early shooting offense into something formatted,’’ Jackson said. “We kind of let it roll until things didn’t roll well before we [said it] looks like we need some more fundamentals, more function towards the end of a game. They showed at the end of season they started being able to do some of that.’’
http://nypost.com/2017/04/15/phil-jackson-wresting-control-of-knicks-back-from-jeff-hornacek/

Phil is trying to build a team that is built on Ball and Player movement and Defense. If you ignore the Media narrative of what he's done and really look at the team you can see the beginnings of the kind of team he wants and it was looking better as the kids got more of a chance to play. He's going to be looking to add more Team Oriented 2 Way players this summer.

“I like the backbone of what we have,’’ Jackson added later in the session. “You can see what we’ve got. Guys like Ron [Baker] and Chasson [Randle] and Willy Hernangomez, and the kids we’re bringing into this organization have a certain sense of how to play in the structure, the way we want to play.

“I think we’re moving in that direction. It’s not fast enough, obviously to carry the day, but I think we’re going to get there.’’

What fans should expect to see out of the Knicks next season: “Playing hard like we played the last five, six games. Guys getting up into people, playing hard, pick up full court at times. You know, ball movement, activity instead of standing. Those type of things. That’s what they’re going to see more of.’’

For me it was more like the last 9 games after they came back from the Road Trip. They didn't win them all of course but they did play harder and more together as a group as Phil said. It was a 4-5 stretch where we saw all the elements of what Phil wants this team to become starting to form.


Mon. 27 vs Pistons 95 - 109 W
Wed. 29 vs Heat 105 - 88 L
Sat. 01 at Heat 94 - 98 W
APRIL
Sun. 02 vs Celtics 110 - 94 L
Wed. 05 vs Bulls 91 - 100 W
Thu. 06 vs Wizards 106 - 103 L
Sat. 08 at Grizzlies 101 - 88 L
Sun. 09 vs Raptors 110 - 97 L
Thu. 13 vs 76ers 113 - 114 W

The future of Carmelo Anthony: “We will take into account his consideration. I told him this is not a situation where we’re going to dump you or do anything like that. We’re looking to improve ourselves however we can. We have not been able to win. And that’s our priority, to win.

“Our meeting was not contentious at all. And it was cordial. We have not been able to win with him on the court at this time. And I think the direction with our team, he is a player that would be better off somewhere else and using his talents somewhere where he can win or chase that championship.”

http://www.msgnetworks.com/2017/04/14/takeaways-from-jacksons-year-in-review/

Clearly he indicated to Melo that the team is going to be rebuilding for the most part. This is not a BAD THING as some are trying to paint it. Phil wants a foundation of Defense and Team Ball and there's nothing bad about that. He is thinking long term and also being more competitive in the short term.

Phil spoke about the importance or scouting for stronger On Ball Defenders as they look at the draft. This again is a recipe for future success. The more young talent he can find that plays that way the better. How can anyone argue against building with these principles going forward?

I'm sorry but what other sources are you bringing to the table besides Phil? Have you talked to anyone about what is going on. Are we suppose to take Jackson words as gospel? You expect people to believe in someone who said this.

The future of Carmelo Anthony: “We will take into account his consideration. I told him this is not a situation where we’re going to dump you or do anything like that. We’re looking to improve ourselves however we can. We have not been able to win. And that’s our priority, to win.

How condescending and disingenuous to tell someone this and then say it to the media like you are going to try and do right by a player when you gave him the power with the NTC to veto any deal he doesn't like.

I need to see Phil actions match his words.

So now Phil has to be lying??? We can't believe that he approves of the way Jeff coached the team and how the team responded to that coaching to close the season?

We can't believe he's instructed his team to prioritize high BBIQ, Skills and On Ball Defense?

We can't believe Phil is looking for a deal that benefits Melo and the Knicks?

What exactly is your problem with any of these things?

yellowboy90
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4/20/2017  9:12 PM
nixluva wrote:
yellowboy90 wrote:
nixluva wrote:There has been a LOT of Media Narrative that the Knicks are in disarray and there's dysfunction and disharmony but I don't agree with this. The evidence is slanted much more heavily that the franchise is laying the foundation for a stronger future and they are more in sync on the whole.

Phil and Jeff are on the same page now and it's only a good thing. Phil approves of the tweaks Jeff has employed to the Triangle despite the Media narrative that Phil isn't going to let Jeff coach. Phil just wants there to be a fundamental base which we did see taking hold as the season came to an end.

“I let Jeff do what he wanted to do — an agreement to try to blend what we call whatever that flow, fastbreak, early shooting offense into something formatted,’’ Jackson said. “We kind of let it roll until things didn’t roll well before we [said it] looks like we need some more fundamentals, more function towards the end of a game. They showed at the end of season they started being able to do some of that.’’
http://nypost.com/2017/04/15/phil-jackson-wresting-control-of-knicks-back-from-jeff-hornacek/

Phil is trying to build a team that is built on Ball and Player movement and Defense. If you ignore the Media narrative of what he's done and really look at the team you can see the beginnings of the kind of team he wants and it was looking better as the kids got more of a chance to play. He's going to be looking to add more Team Oriented 2 Way players this summer.

“I like the backbone of what we have,’’ Jackson added later in the session. “You can see what we’ve got. Guys like Ron [Baker] and Chasson [Randle] and Willy Hernangomez, and the kids we’re bringing into this organization have a certain sense of how to play in the structure, the way we want to play.

“I think we’re moving in that direction. It’s not fast enough, obviously to carry the day, but I think we’re going to get there.’’

What fans should expect to see out of the Knicks next season: “Playing hard like we played the last five, six games. Guys getting up into people, playing hard, pick up full court at times. You know, ball movement, activity instead of standing. Those type of things. That’s what they’re going to see more of.’’

For me it was more like the last 9 games after they came back from the Road Trip. They didn't win them all of course but they did play harder and more together as a group as Phil said. It was a 4-5 stretch where we saw all the elements of what Phil wants this team to become starting to form.


Mon. 27 vs Pistons 95 - 109 W
Wed. 29 vs Heat 105 - 88 L
Sat. 01 at Heat 94 - 98 W
APRIL
Sun. 02 vs Celtics 110 - 94 L
Wed. 05 vs Bulls 91 - 100 W
Thu. 06 vs Wizards 106 - 103 L
Sat. 08 at Grizzlies 101 - 88 L
Sun. 09 vs Raptors 110 - 97 L
Thu. 13 vs 76ers 113 - 114 W

The future of Carmelo Anthony: “We will take into account his consideration. I told him this is not a situation where we’re going to dump you or do anything like that. We’re looking to improve ourselves however we can. We have not been able to win. And that’s our priority, to win.

“Our meeting was not contentious at all. And it was cordial. We have not been able to win with him on the court at this time. And I think the direction with our team, he is a player that would be better off somewhere else and using his talents somewhere where he can win or chase that championship.”

http://www.msgnetworks.com/2017/04/14/takeaways-from-jacksons-year-in-review/

Clearly he indicated to Melo that the team is going to be rebuilding for the most part. This is not a BAD THING as some are trying to paint it. Phil wants a foundation of Defense and Team Ball and there's nothing bad about that. He is thinking long term and also being more competitive in the short term.

Phil spoke about the importance or scouting for stronger On Ball Defenders as they look at the draft. This again is a recipe for future success. The more young talent he can find that plays that way the better. How can anyone argue against building with these principles going forward?

I'm sorry but what other sources are you bringing to the table besides Phil? Have you talked to anyone about what is going on. Are we suppose to take Jackson words as gospel? You expect people to believe in someone who said this.

The future of Carmelo Anthony: “We will take into account his consideration. I told him this is not a situation where we’re going to dump you or do anything like that. We’re looking to improve ourselves however we can. We have not been able to win. And that’s our priority, to win.

How condescending and disingenuous to tell someone this and then say it to the media like you are going to try and do right by a player when you gave him the power with the NTC to veto any deal he doesn't like.

I need to see Phil actions match his words.

So now Phil has to be lying??? We can't believe that he approves of the way Jeff coached the team and how the team responded to that coaching to close the season?

We can't believe he's instructed his team to prioritize high BBIQ, Skills and On Ball Defense?

We can't believe Phil is looking for a deal that benefits Melo and the Knicks?

What exactly is your problem with any of these things?

Phil doesn't have to be lying but you are only basing your assessment of the knicks by using Phil words as gospel. When there are reports from people who have sources that contradict your assumption.

Touting something is the truth without full knowledge of the situation is silly.

Also, you can believe what you want to believe but a guy would not bring in Jennings and Rose when a guy says he wants to prioritize High BBIQ, Skills, and on ball.

Like I said his actions does not match his words. So I am not going to tout this sudden new found direction, even though that was last year direction, until the off-season is over. If he makes smart moves and spend his money wisely I will gladly give Phil credit just like I give Justin Holiday credit for playing well.

So Nix, how would you look at your boss if he told you we think the best thing would be for you to transfer to a different city but don't worry we'll make sure it is somewhere nice? Keep in mind you both know he doesn't control where you go you do?

Are you going to tell me you wouldn't look at him silly?

nixluva
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4/20/2017  10:11 PM
yellowboy90 wrote:
nixluva wrote:
yellowboy90 wrote:
nixluva wrote:There has been a LOT of Media Narrative that the Knicks are in disarray and there's dysfunction and disharmony but I don't agree with this. The evidence is slanted much more heavily that the franchise is laying the foundation for a stronger future and they are more in sync on the whole.

Phil and Jeff are on the same page now and it's only a good thing. Phil approves of the tweaks Jeff has employed to the Triangle despite the Media narrative that Phil isn't going to let Jeff coach. Phil just wants there to be a fundamental base which we did see taking hold as the season came to an end.

“I let Jeff do what he wanted to do — an agreement to try to blend what we call whatever that flow, fastbreak, early shooting offense into something formatted,’’ Jackson said. “We kind of let it roll until things didn’t roll well before we [said it] looks like we need some more fundamentals, more function towards the end of a game. They showed at the end of season they started being able to do some of that.’’
http://nypost.com/2017/04/15/phil-jackson-wresting-control-of-knicks-back-from-jeff-hornacek/

Phil is trying to build a team that is built on Ball and Player movement and Defense. If you ignore the Media narrative of what he's done and really look at the team you can see the beginnings of the kind of team he wants and it was looking better as the kids got more of a chance to play. He's going to be looking to add more Team Oriented 2 Way players this summer.

“I like the backbone of what we have,’’ Jackson added later in the session. “You can see what we’ve got. Guys like Ron [Baker] and Chasson [Randle] and Willy Hernangomez, and the kids we’re bringing into this organization have a certain sense of how to play in the structure, the way we want to play.

“I think we’re moving in that direction. It’s not fast enough, obviously to carry the day, but I think we’re going to get there.’’

What fans should expect to see out of the Knicks next season: “Playing hard like we played the last five, six games. Guys getting up into people, playing hard, pick up full court at times. You know, ball movement, activity instead of standing. Those type of things. That’s what they’re going to see more of.’’

For me it was more like the last 9 games after they came back from the Road Trip. They didn't win them all of course but they did play harder and more together as a group as Phil said. It was a 4-5 stretch where we saw all the elements of what Phil wants this team to become starting to form.


Mon. 27 vs Pistons 95 - 109 W
Wed. 29 vs Heat 105 - 88 L
Sat. 01 at Heat 94 - 98 W
APRIL
Sun. 02 vs Celtics 110 - 94 L
Wed. 05 vs Bulls 91 - 100 W
Thu. 06 vs Wizards 106 - 103 L
Sat. 08 at Grizzlies 101 - 88 L
Sun. 09 vs Raptors 110 - 97 L
Thu. 13 vs 76ers 113 - 114 W

The future of Carmelo Anthony: “We will take into account his consideration. I told him this is not a situation where we’re going to dump you or do anything like that. We’re looking to improve ourselves however we can. We have not been able to win. And that’s our priority, to win.

“Our meeting was not contentious at all. And it was cordial. We have not been able to win with him on the court at this time. And I think the direction with our team, he is a player that would be better off somewhere else and using his talents somewhere where he can win or chase that championship.”

http://www.msgnetworks.com/2017/04/14/takeaways-from-jacksons-year-in-review/

Clearly he indicated to Melo that the team is going to be rebuilding for the most part. This is not a BAD THING as some are trying to paint it. Phil wants a foundation of Defense and Team Ball and there's nothing bad about that. He is thinking long term and also being more competitive in the short term.

Phil spoke about the importance or scouting for stronger On Ball Defenders as they look at the draft. This again is a recipe for future success. The more young talent he can find that plays that way the better. How can anyone argue against building with these principles going forward?

I'm sorry but what other sources are you bringing to the table besides Phil? Have you talked to anyone about what is going on. Are we suppose to take Jackson words as gospel? You expect people to believe in someone who said this.

The future of Carmelo Anthony: “We will take into account his consideration. I told him this is not a situation where we’re going to dump you or do anything like that. We’re looking to improve ourselves however we can. We have not been able to win. And that’s our priority, to win.

How condescending and disingenuous to tell someone this and then say it to the media like you are going to try and do right by a player when you gave him the power with the NTC to veto any deal he doesn't like.

I need to see Phil actions match his words.

So now Phil has to be lying??? We can't believe that he approves of the way Jeff coached the team and how the team responded to that coaching to close the season?

We can't believe he's instructed his team to prioritize high BBIQ, Skills and On Ball Defense?

We can't believe Phil is looking for a deal that benefits Melo and the Knicks?

What exactly is your problem with any of these things?

Phil doesn't have to be lying but you are only basing your assessment of the knicks by using Phil words as gospel. When there are reports from people who have sources that contradict your assumption.

Touting something is the truth without full knowledge of the situation is silly.

Also, you can believe what you want to believe but a guy would not bring in Jennings and Rose when a guy says he wants to prioritize High BBIQ, Skills, and on ball.

Like I said his actions does not match his words. So I am not going to tout this sudden new found direction, even though that was last year direction, until the off-season is over. If he makes smart moves and spend his money wisely I will gladly give Phil credit just like I give Justin Holiday credit for playing well.

So Nix, how would you look at your boss if he told you we think the best thing would be for you to transfer to a different city but don't worry we'll make sure it is somewhere nice? Keep in mind you both know he doesn't control where you go you do?

Are you going to tell me you wouldn't look at him silly?


I'm not basing my assessment only on Phil's word!!! I have the evidence in the way the team responded to Jeff's coaching to end the year. The Offense wasn't Old School Feed It Into the Post Triangle!!! You can do your own search but you won't be able to find any proof that Phil has handcuffed Jeff by forcing him to run the Old Version of the Triangle. Instead you'll find visual evidence that Jeff was running HIS version of the Triangle with Spread PnR and Early Motion Offense. So you are wrong about this being based only on Phil's word.

One thing that you are doing here is conflating the effort to try and put some vets around Melo which is going to limit your options with the long term goal to add young players that more closely match your specific ideals. So when you're dealing with the draft you are able to pick players for specific criteria and they are drafted as opposed to a Free Agent where you have a very limited market to chose from and they have to agree to sign. These 2 processes are nothing alike.

He also brought in players like Noah, LT, Holiday, KOQ, CLee and Baker who are players that want to defend. So while you can point to a couple of guys that aren't strong defenders there are more guys that are trying to defend.

Your analogy with Melo is not really a very convincing one. This is team sports and TRADES are actually a part of the system. Melo and Phil talked and Melo said all year that all he wanted was for Phil to state that he's looking to rebuild and he would have to accept that. What do you think Phil told Melo???

Papabear
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4/21/2017  2:05 AM
fishmike wrote:
crzymdups wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Nalod wrote:To some, if you don't want Phil fired, your content.
Actually some of us are rooted in the reality that is two year contract and the understanding of the task at hand.
Nalod not happy with 31 win season.

same

I don't think you guys are content. I'm just astounded you have faith left in him after three years of this.

He's been saying the same thing for three years. The problem is his actions.

I don't care what Phil says at press conferences. I care what he does. What's he's done is undermine two coaches, sign mediocre or worse free agents, trade away talent and get less in return, alienate both the veteran star and the young star of the team. He's drafted a few good picks, particularly KP and hopefully Willy - though they play basically the same position, so again the question is where's the logic for building a team?

If I may - it seems like you guys think anyone who is unhappy or frustrated with Phil "has an AGENDA", loves Melo, or is just trolling or blindly hating.

It ain't like that. People are genuinely frustrated and don't have much faith left in Phil to do this. Roland Lazenby, if you read the other tweets I posted in that thread, says Phil is a genius... but not very good with other people, he likes to enforce his will. Maybe that works as a coach, but not so well in the front office. It wouldn't be the first time. Even Lazenby, who is a Phil and Triangle fan and has written biographies about Phil, Kobe, and Michael Jordan has said this situation is a mess. The coaching situation is a mess. The implementation of the Triangle is a continual mess. He's rooting for it to succeed, but even he says Phil has to acknowledge and address some of his mistakes going forward. Again, he's Phil so he'll probably say some weird **** and I don't really care what he says - the issue is how he addresses it going forward.

If Phil figures this out, I'll give him full credit. But this has been body blow after body blow of terrible decisions. Even on a Lakers podcast the other day, the host was like "yeah everything Phil has done outside of drafting KP has been completely mystifying". So it's not just haters here or guys with an agenda. It's people watching and wondering.

I'm rooting for the Knicks to succeed. I haven't seen much from Phil to give me faith it can happen here. Like I said, if he does figure it out, I'll be the first to give him credit. But to argue he has figured it out or that we're on the right path.... is a little much. Has he even spoken to KP since the end of the season? I'd say part of being on the right path would be to be on speaking terms with the only hope of the franchise.

because you cant tell the difference between a bad move and a move that didnt work.

Just like you loved the Grant trade at the draft. Two years later you are calling that move trash. It wasnt. It was a good move that didnt work out. There is a difference. Knicks traded a SG who regressed and shot 37% and didnt defend for a position of need and a player you liked. That was a good move that made sense. It didnt work out.
Of Shump, JR, Tyson.. the core guys we traded away for nothing who do you want here getting paid what they are getting paid? Those guys all signed big deals so which do you lament losing?

I am equally astounded.
Astounded by the daily complaining about losing players in bad trades that nobody wants on their roster anyway.
Astounded by the loyalty to a player who has never won and quit on coaches while here
Astounded by a fanbase that will lock onto any negative nugget the tabloids pump out grab on like monkeys to shiney objects and treat 5% of the truth as gospel

We could do this all day. Phil has not made good moves, but he has clearly tried to develop talent, value the draft, install a system, and rather than cater to a star player that doesnt play defense and places himself before the team to move along that this isnt the right place for you. He's been the anti-star phuck and has Dolan keeping out of it. It shouldnt be that astounding.

Funny also how the big knock on Phil is he's a great coach but a lousy exec. He doesnt get any time to figure this out? Its been 3 years. We have Willy and KP to show for it. Thats obviously not enough. Contrary to you I HAVE seen enough to stay patient and let see what adjustments he makes. I want what Phil wants.

Papabear Says

KP and Willy are not and won't be superstars. KP is not the man to build around.

Papabear
shinmen
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France
4/21/2017  6:17 AM
The last 2 or 3 seasons, Melo has asked for help to take advantage of his window. He wanted and still do a team to win during his window. Phil had Melo on his team. He had no choice but to sign him. He would have been crucified if he let him walk for nothing. For proof, we see how he's villified for shumpert and jr. Imagine if he had done the same for Melo.

Melo is still a very good player but to win now, you need veterans. 2 years ago, Phil signed Affalo, Lopez and Seraphin. Obviously it was not enough but he did what he could. We can all agree that Durant was not coming here.

Last summer, Melo was very vocal about wanting a better cast. His window closing and so on. Phil obliged and did what he could.
We needed a penetrating guard. He got that in Rose but it cost him Lopez and Grant. Noah was to compensate for Lopez. Honestly, I hated the signings as I liked Grant and Lopez. I would have prefered incremental improvements. However, I understood the thinking. Remember the quote of Phil to Melo. "Are you happy now?" Melo said he was.

Everything has backfired badly but Phil tried and did what he could for Melo and form him only.
Now Phil and the knicks don't owe anything to Melo's window. If he wants to stay, fine, he can bring something to the team but he shouldn't expect any consideration from the knicks. That's why this offseason is different from the others.

Phil failed to build a competitive veteran team. To preserve his legacy, he must succeed to build a young improving team. Otherwise, his stint in NY will be seen as complete failure.

nyknickzingis
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4/21/2017  6:32 AM
We won't make the playoffs next year either, so we just need Phil to keep taking the heat from the media while we quietly assemble a rebuilt team that has Porzingis, Hernangomez, Baker, Randle, Kuz, Holiday and the 2017 and 18 lottery picks. Hoping KP can become an all-star by 2018-19 and gets near all-star level support from either the 2017 or 2018 picks and we're then on our way to having a great time for the following 7-8 years.

I think we're far from done or where we want to be, but if Phil keeps drafting well the Knicks fans will remember his time years from now as a positive and appreciate him in retrospect. The key will be the draft picks. How good the 2017 pick, 2018 lotto pick, KP and Willy are in April 2019.

Chandler
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4/21/2017  7:53 AM
crzymdups wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Nalod wrote:To some, if you don't want Phil fired, your content.
Actually some of us are rooted in the reality that is two year contract and the understanding of the task at hand.
Nalod not happy with 31 win season.

same

I don't think you guys are content. I'm just astounded you have faith left in him after three years of this.

He's been saying the same thing for three years. The problem is his actions.

I don't care what Phil says at press conferences. I care what he does. What's he's done is undermine two coaches, sign mediocre or worse free agents, trade away talent and get less in return, alienate both the veteran star and the young star of the team. He's drafted a few good picks, particularly KP and hopefully Willy - though they play basically the same position, so again the question is where's the logic for building a team?

If I may - it seems like you guys think anyone who is unhappy or frustrated with Phil "has an AGENDA", loves Melo, or is just trolling or blindly hating.

It ain't like that. People are genuinely frustrated and don't have much faith left in Phil to do this. Roland Lazenby, if you read the other tweets I posted in that thread, says Phil is a genius... but not very good with other people, he likes to enforce his will. Maybe that works as a coach, but not so well in the front office. It wouldn't be the first time. Even Lazenby, who is a Phil and Triangle fan and has written biographies about Phil, Kobe, and Michael Jordan has said this situation is a mess. The coaching situation is a mess. The implementation of the Triangle is a continual mess. He's rooting for it to succeed, but even he says Phil has to acknowledge and address some of his mistakes going forward. Again, he's Phil so he'll probably say some weird **** and I don't really care what he says - the issue is how he addresses it going forward.

If Phil figures this out, I'll give him full credit. But this has been body blow after body blow of terrible decisions. Even on a Lakers podcast the other day, the host was like "yeah everything Phil has done outside of drafting KP has been completely mystifying". So it's not just haters here or guys with an agenda. It's people watching and wondering.

I'm rooting for the Knicks to succeed. I haven't seen much from Phil to give me faith it can happen here. Like I said, if he does figure it out, I'll be the first to give him credit. But to argue he has figured it out or that we're on the right path.... is a little much. Has he even spoken to KP since the end of the season? I'd say part of being on the right path would be to be on speaking terms with the only hope of the franchise.

Crzy, this is a logical articulate criticism particularly about the trades

I think you're not giving enough credit to the fact that he was trying something near impossible. Build around melo to win, build for the future and have nearly no picks -- thus being forced to overpay in FA where there are few deals.

In hindsight we can say that was dumb. He should have let melo walk. But at the time it didn't seem dumb

He needs to do better w trades

He didn't undermine fisher at All.

DJMUSIC: Fisher talked a good game in Post game but aside from that Derek Fisher was ALL CHIT CHAT SH_t and produced nothing!
Chandler
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4/21/2017  7:55 AM
fishmike wrote:
crzymdups wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Nalod wrote:To some, if you don't want Phil fired, your content.
Actually some of us are rooted in the reality that is two year contract and the understanding of the task at hand.
Nalod not happy with 31 win season.

same

I don't think you guys are content. I'm just astounded you have faith left in him after three years of this.

He's been saying the same thing for three years. The problem is his actions.

I don't care what Phil says at press conferences. I care what he does. What's he's done is undermine two coaches, sign mediocre or worse free agents, trade away talent and get less in return, alienate both the veteran star and the young star of the team. He's drafted a few good picks, particularly KP and hopefully Willy - though they play basically the same position, so again the question is where's the logic for building a team?

If I may - it seems like you guys think anyone who is unhappy or frustrated with Phil "has an AGENDA", loves Melo, or is just trolling or blindly hating.

It ain't like that. People are genuinely frustrated and don't have much faith left in Phil to do this. Roland Lazenby, if you read the other tweets I posted in that thread, says Phil is a genius... but not very good with other people, he likes to enforce his will. Maybe that works as a coach, but not so well in the front office. It wouldn't be the first time. Even Lazenby, who is a Phil and Triangle fan and has written biographies about Phil, Kobe, and Michael Jordan has said this situation is a mess. The coaching situation is a mess. The implementation of the Triangle is a continual mess. He's rooting for it to succeed, but even he says Phil has to acknowledge and address some of his mistakes going forward. Again, he's Phil so he'll probably say some weird **** and I don't really care what he says - the issue is how he addresses it going forward.

If Phil figures this out, I'll give him full credit. But this has been body blow after body blow of terrible decisions. Even on a Lakers podcast the other day, the host was like "yeah everything Phil has done outside of drafting KP has been completely mystifying". So it's not just haters here or guys with an agenda. It's people watching and wondering.

I'm rooting for the Knicks to succeed. I haven't seen much from Phil to give me faith it can happen here. Like I said, if he does figure it out, I'll be the first to give him credit. But to argue he has figured it out or that we're on the right path.... is a little much. Has he even spoken to KP since the end of the season? I'd say part of being on the right path would be to be on speaking terms with the only hope of the franchise.

because you cant tell the difference between a bad move and a move that didnt work.

Just like you loved the Grant trade at the draft. Two years later you are calling that move trash. It wasnt. It was a good move that didnt work out. There is a difference. Knicks traded a SG who regressed and shot 37% and didnt defend for a position of need and a player you liked. That was a good move that made sense. It didnt work out.
Of Shump, JR, Tyson.. the core guys we traded away for nothing who do you want here getting paid what they are getting paid? Those guys all signed big deals so which do you lament losing?

I am equally astounded.
Astounded by the daily complaining about losing players in bad trades that nobody wants on their roster anyway.
Astounded by the loyalty to a player who has never won and quit on coaches while here
Astounded by a fanbase that will lock onto any negative nugget the tabloids pump out grab on like monkeys to shiney objects and treat 5% of the truth as gospel

We could do this all day. Phil has not made good moves, but he has clearly tried to develop talent, value the draft, install a system, and rather than cater to a star player that doesnt play defense and places himself before the team to move along that this isnt the right place for you. He's been the anti-star phuck and has Dolan keeping out of it. It shouldnt be that astounding.

Funny also how the big knock on Phil is he's a great coach but a lousy exec. He doesnt get any time to figure this out? Its been 3 years. We have Willy and KP to show for it. Thats obviously not enough. Contrary to you I HAVE seen enough to stay patient and let see what adjustments he makes. I want what Phil wants.

A++

DJMUSIC: Fisher talked a good game in Post game but aside from that Derek Fisher was ALL CHIT CHAT SH_t and produced nothing!
blkexec
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4/21/2017  10:05 AM
Nix can sell water to a whale. Are you sure you from NY? They don't make em like you anymore. Gotta love the fans that see things half full. They are truly the minority. The majority are shallow thinkers.....Looking through negative goggles. Only see what the media betrays. Doesn't look long term. And haven't experience the lows of knick history.

Then you have me....I like to see what's obvious and not so obvious. Half full and half empty. I'm one of the few who agrees with Stephen A rant on Phil. But also see Phils positive long term impact.

With that said, Phil is developing and reshaping a culture around NY basketball fundamentals. That's a good foundation to build on. That's how Russell won so many rings. And that's why teams with individual talent, but lacks team chemistry..... rarely win in this league.

Yes I think Phil is a con man. I don't think he took this job with the knicks at heart. Same with Dolan hiring Phil or forcing a melo trade. They both have their own individual agenda (just my opinion)....

BUT...Like most things in history....when you have a clash of two storms, good things will follow. I like the fundamental culture we are developing in a nba culture of individualism....and self marketing.

To my half full fans. Keep it up. I read and hear enough negativity about the knicks all the time. Its refreshing to read about the positive light found in a dark.

Q: What is the difference between a Knicks fan and a baby? A: The baby will stop whining after awhile.
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