fishmike wrote:crzymdups wrote:fishmike wrote:Nalod wrote:To some, if you don't want Phil fired, your content.
Actually some of us are rooted in the reality that is two year contract and the understanding of the task at hand.
Nalod not happy with 31 win season.
same
I don't think you guys are content. I'm just astounded you have faith left in him after three years of this.
He's been saying the same thing for three years. The problem is his actions.
I don't care what Phil says at press conferences. I care what he does. What's he's done is undermine two coaches, sign mediocre or worse free agents, trade away talent and get less in return, alienate both the veteran star and the young star of the team. He's drafted a few good picks, particularly KP and hopefully Willy - though they play basically the same position, so again the question is where's the logic for building a team?
If I may - it seems like you guys think anyone who is unhappy or frustrated with Phil "has an AGENDA", loves Melo, or is just trolling or blindly hating.
It ain't like that. People are genuinely frustrated and don't have much faith left in Phil to do this. Roland Lazenby, if you read the other tweets I posted in that thread, says Phil is a genius... but not very good with other people, he likes to enforce his will. Maybe that works as a coach, but not so well in the front office. It wouldn't be the first time. Even Lazenby, who is a Phil and Triangle fan and has written biographies about Phil, Kobe, and Michael Jordan has said this situation is a mess. The coaching situation is a mess. The implementation of the Triangle is a continual mess. He's rooting for it to succeed, but even he says Phil has to acknowledge and address some of his mistakes going forward. Again, he's Phil so he'll probably say some weird **** and I don't really care what he says - the issue is how he addresses it going forward.
If Phil figures this out, I'll give him full credit. But this has been body blow after body blow of terrible decisions. Even on a Lakers podcast the other day, the host was like "yeah everything Phil has done outside of drafting KP has been completely mystifying". So it's not just haters here or guys with an agenda. It's people watching and wondering.
I'm rooting for the Knicks to succeed. I haven't seen much from Phil to give me faith it can happen here. Like I said, if he does figure it out, I'll be the first to give him credit. But to argue he has figured it out or that we're on the right path.... is a little much. Has he even spoken to KP since the end of the season? I'd say part of being on the right path would be to be on speaking terms with the only hope of the franchise.
because you cant tell the difference between a bad move and a move that didnt work.Just like you loved the Grant trade at the draft. Two years later you are calling that move trash. It wasnt. It was a good move that didnt work out. There is a difference. Knicks traded a SG who regressed and shot 37% and didnt defend for a position of need and a player you liked. That was a good move that made sense. It didnt work out.
Of Shump, JR, Tyson.. the core guys we traded away for nothing who do you want here getting paid what they are getting paid? Those guys all signed big deals so which do you lament losing?
I am equally astounded.
Astounded by the daily complaining about losing players in bad trades that nobody wants on their roster anyway.
Astounded by the loyalty to a player who has never won and quit on coaches while here
Astounded by a fanbase that will lock onto any negative nugget the tabloids pump out grab on like monkeys to shiney objects and treat 5% of the truth as gospel
We could do this all day. Phil has not made good moves, but he has clearly tried to develop talent, value the draft, install a system, and rather than cater to a star player that doesnt play defense and places himself before the team to move along that this isnt the right place for you. He's been the anti-star phuck and has Dolan keeping out of it. It shouldnt be that astounding.
Funny also how the big knock on Phil is he's a great coach but a lousy exec. He doesnt get any time to figure this out? Its been 3 years. We have Willy and KP to show for it. Thats obviously not enough. Contrary to you I HAVE seen enough to stay patient and let see what adjustments he makes. I want what Phil wants.
A tabloid reporting gossip is one thing... Adrian Wojnarowski giving a detailed run down of an organization in disarray on the verge of losing KP is quite another. You have Woj, the most respected basketball reporter in the entire league saying it. You have the guy who write biographies of Phil, Kobe, Michael and followed Phil for his twenty year career saying it.
The main problem, again, which you didn't mention at all - is how he's handled the coaching situation. Namely, he's gotten too overly involved there because he wants the coach to run HIS system. He didn't like the way Fish ran practices because it wasn't how HE would run them. He stepped in and made Hornacek run the Triangle, even though Hornacek has never run it or played in it before. Phil operates as if he's the coach. He should be in a Pop role if that's what he wants. But he is not well enough to do it. And yet... he won't let it go. It's created chaos. That's the thing you can't bring yourself to admit. It'll never work. Everyone who knows the league knows this.
As for the player transactions - we can all disagree and change our minds. I'm not being paid $12M a year or even $500k a year to figure it out, or I might make some different calls. Jerian Grant was a pet favorite of mine in the draft, so I was excited to get him. I was not excited to give up on him less than a year later, primarily because he didn't "get" the Triangle. One of the only games I can even remember from the past two seasons was the game Melo sprained his ankle against a ref in a game at MSG against the Celtics. Knicks were rolling, Melo went down, Celtics came back, Jerian Grant grew up on the court and secured the victory. It was fun to watch. I would not have given up on him for Rose if I were making a business decision about the types of player to build around. I can see the logic of moving Hardaway for Grant... but not the logic of immediately devaluing that pick for a rental/gamble on Rose. Nor doubling down by downgrading from Rolo to Noah. It was horrible basketball business sense. The fan in me wanted it to work... the logical basketball mind in me said it was a terrible gamble. And pretty much every analyst in the league said the same. I'm not going to rehash the Tyson trade for the umpteenth time, nor the Shump/JR giveaway that got Lebron a ring. He didn't get enough in return - but you know that part.
So, yeah, we'll have to agree to disagree. I can see what you HOPE will happen here with Phil. I really can. And I was on board for a while. But the way he's operated with the coaching is just a non-starter. It's never going to work. My main hope now is that at least we get some good draft picks - the Knicks always draft well when they have picks, because we have like five former very good GMs in the front office and now Gaines, not to mention the scout in Spain who has been on staff since the early 2000s and found KP and Willy.
I hope like hell the Knicks can build something... I'm just not going to ignore my eyes and the screaming feeling in my gut that the coaching setup here is doomed to repeated failure. Hey, like I said, I'd love to be wrong. I promise to do a "Mea Culpa - Phil wins" thread if I am and you guys can all throw rotten tomatoes at me for my wrong opinions while Nalod quotes the Lord of the Rings.