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Is Internal Continuity (patience)Our Worst Enemy?
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nixluva
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4/20/2017  10:02 AM
holfresh wrote:
misterearl wrote:Burning Question: Are the Knicks just another Broadway show?

From whose perspective, Dolan or us??..Phil is just another show piece...

Dolan always wants a show but Phil does want to build a winner. Phil is wired that way. He trashed the team and started over to try to establish a team that can win long term. It may seem counterintuitive but it's been necessary.

A new core has to be established and Phil has the BEST chance to accomplish that from here on. There's no guarantee of success because luck plays a part in this with the Draft. Still it's the closest we've been to actually having a young up and coming team that can one day become a contender.

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holfresh
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4/20/2017  10:08 AM
nixluva wrote:
holfresh wrote:
misterearl wrote:Burning Question: Are the Knicks just another Broadway show?

From whose perspective, Dolan or us??..Phil is just another show piece...

Dolan always wants a show but Phil does want to build a winner. Phil is wired that way. He trashed the team and started over to try to establish a team that can win long term. It may seem counterintuitive but it's been necessary.

A new core has to be established and Phil has the BEST chance to accomplish that from here on. There's no guarantee of success because luck plays a part in this with the Draft. Still it's the closest we've been to actually having a young up and coming team that can one day become a contender.

Pure comedy..Where do you see the makings of a contender?? Young and draft doesn't make you a contender...

Nalod
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4/20/2017  10:19 AM
holfresh wrote:
Nalod wrote:Player turn over is the attempt to mine some quality from depleted system that valued little continuity. Isiah valued Steve francis over Ariza is just one example, and Reezy is still in the league, in the playoffs. Its one thing to trade and receive some value in return. That adds up year after year. Phil had little to work with the last few years.
We tend to follow knicks more than others so ex knicks stand out more. Crawford has played for a few more teams than just ours, but he is a reminder of a failed era. Actually, Craw is about 3-4 era's past!!!

The Bulls had two distinct era's under Phil and only Jordan/pippen were there for the 9 years phil was head coach. Many players came thru during those days. Same for the Lakers with Kobe being the mainstay.

What you had was same owner and GM/president/Coach during each of those era's. It would work best when phil steps down there is an internal transfer which continues what is then a winning formula.


That was Larry Brown who said he later apologized to Ariza..

Im sorry, who was the president and GM of the team?
Hey, I like Larry Brown and he was the architect of the culture that still stands in San Antonio! He hired Pop and Buford. They from his tree.
In Larry's defense Reezy was not the player he become but that trade was insane as was Isiah bringing in Larry when it was known Larry was an uber hyper alpha and wanted shyt done his way.
That was a bad trade and I don't care whose fault it was. That has nothing to do with anything. Why do I care who aplogized? The point is "continence" and you bring me "It was larry"?

Lets forget Isiah was the boss, would you define Larry's career by that trade? Of course not.

Anger sells, don't buy!
holfresh
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4/20/2017  10:22 AM    LAST EDITED: 4/20/2017  10:29 AM
Nalod wrote:
holfresh wrote:
Nalod wrote:Player turn over is the attempt to mine some quality from depleted system that valued little continuity. Isiah valued Steve francis over Ariza is just one example, and Reezy is still in the league, in the playoffs. Its one thing to trade and receive some value in return. That adds up year after year. Phil had little to work with the last few years.
We tend to follow knicks more than others so ex knicks stand out more. Crawford has played for a few more teams than just ours, but he is a reminder of a failed era. Actually, Craw is about 3-4 era's past!!!

The Bulls had two distinct era's under Phil and only Jordan/pippen were there for the 9 years phil was head coach. Many players came thru during those days. Same for the Lakers with Kobe being the mainstay.

What you had was same owner and GM/president/Coach during each of those era's. It would work best when phil steps down there is an internal transfer which continues what is then a winning formula.


That was Larry Brown who said he later apologized to Ariza..

Im sorry, who was the president and GM of the team?
Hey, I like Larry Brown and he was the architect of the culture that still stands in San Antonio! He hired Pop and Buford. They from his tree.
In Larry's defense Reezy was not the player he become but that trade was insane as was Isiah bringing in Larry when it was known Larry was an uber hyper alpha and wanted shyt done his way.
That was a bad trade and I don't care whose fault it was. That has nothing to do with anything. Why do I care who aplogized? The point is "continence" and you bring me "It was larry"?

Lets forget Isiah was the boss, would you define Larry's career by that trade? Of course not.


Reminds you of anyone you defend to no end??

No one is trying to define Larry's career..We hope to build a culture to retain our yoots...

Phil is not the culture dude we thought he would be...He knows how to coach and apparently write books..He isn't leadership material for an organization...Everyone can't be all things...Doesn't make him a bad guy...His coaching legacy is intact..
misterearl
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4/20/2017  10:49 AM
holfresh wrote:
misterearl wrote:Burning Question: Are the Knicks just another Broadway show?

From whose perspective, Dolan or us??..Phil is just another show piece...

Excellent Question

Dolan first.

Second, the people who view The Garden as the place to be seen.

once a knick always a knick
misterearl
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4/20/2017  10:56 AM
Everyone Wants To Be A Winner, But Everyone Is NOT a Winner

nixluva wrote:
Dolan always wants a show but Phil does want to build a winner. Phil is wired that way. He trashed the team and started over to try to establish a team that can win long term. It may seem counterintuitive but it's been necessary.

A new core has to be established and Phil has the BEST chance to accomplish that from here on. There's no guarantee of success because luck plays a part in this with the Draft. Still it's the closest we've been to actually having a young up and coming team that can one day become a contender.

New core?

Phil has done nothing but made the treadmill acceptable with his equity earned elsewhere. Being young is no guarantee of anything. Want proof? Travel a hundred miles down 95 to Philadelphia to visit the ETERNALLY young Sixers.

At some point, great expectations must be critiqued with an unflinching eye. Fandom has its limits.

While a large slice of the league (playoff teams) develops talent with a purpose, by comparison - losing 51 games is a danger signal.

once a knick always a knick
JrZyHuStLa
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4/20/2017  11:11 AM    LAST EDITED: 4/20/2017  11:11 AM
Keep getting the core pieces in place first.

Continuity comes after.

I don't want continuity with Melo and Rose.

martin
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4/20/2017  11:15 AM
JrZyHuStLa wrote:Keep getting the core pieces in place first.

Continuity comes after.

I don't want continuity with Melo and Rose.

Exactly

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misterearl
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4/20/2017  11:27 AM
Not A Side Piece

JrZyHuStLa wrote:Keep getting the core pieces in place first.

Continuity comes after.

I don't want continuity with Melo and Rose.

Q. What is your criteria for a Core piece?

(Skill set, playing personality, age, willingness to play in New York for more than x years ... etc)

once a knick always a knick
JrZyHuStLa
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4/20/2017  11:33 AM
misterearl wrote:Not A Side Piece

JrZyHuStLa wrote:Keep getting the core pieces in place first.

Continuity comes after.

I don't want continuity with Melo and Rose.

Q. What is your criteria for a Core piece?

(Skill set, playing personality, age, willingness to play in New York for more than x years ... etc)

Talented youth that is capable of or willing to play on both sides of the ball with a team first mindset.

holfresh
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4/20/2017  12:00 PM
misterearl wrote:
holfresh wrote:
misterearl wrote:Burning Question: Are the Knicks just another Broadway show?

From whose perspective, Dolan or us??..Phil is just another show piece...

Excellent Question

Dolan first.

Second, the people who view The Garden as the place to be seen.


Phil was hired because of Dolan's friend in the music business that fills his arenas on the East and West Coasts..All these pieces are assets that adds to the bottom line in Dolan's eyes..Phil is here to collect a check and what's left on his contract..Phil won already, he is doing things his way and winning isn't a priority..He said so in his press conference..

I tune in to see competitive games within reason...Watching guys play who probably wouldn't otherwise be in the league isn't fun for me...I live close to Westchester, I can get that from the DLeague..Phil loves it tho because they do as he says...So the Broadway show is working for some of Phil supporters and Dolan...Others like me want more...
Nalod
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4/20/2017  12:04 PM
holfresh wrote:
misterearl wrote:
holfresh wrote:
misterearl wrote:Burning Question: Are the Knicks just another Broadway show?

From whose perspective, Dolan or us??..Phil is just another show piece...

Excellent Question

Dolan first.

Second, the people who view The Garden as the place to be seen.


Phil was hired because of Dolan's friend in the music business that fills his arenas on the East and West Coasts..All these pieces are assets that adds to the bottom line in Dolan's eyes..Phil is here to collect a check and what's left on his contract..Phil won already, he is doing things his way and winning isn't a priority..He said so in his press conference..

I tune in to see competitive games within reason...Watching guys play who probably wouldn't otherwise be in the league isn't fun for me...I live close to Westchester, I can get that from the DLeague..Phil loves it tho because they do as he says...So the Broadway show is working for some of Phil supporters and Dolan...Others like me want more...

Some of us see substance to Phil's existence. We just think it takes time once you understand the depth of the problems that have existed for many years.

Anger sells, don't buy!
martin
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4/20/2017  12:12 PM
holfresh wrote:
misterearl wrote:
holfresh wrote:
misterearl wrote:Burning Question: Are the Knicks just another Broadway show?

From whose perspective, Dolan or us??..Phil is just another show piece...

Excellent Question

Dolan first.

Second, the people who view The Garden as the place to be seen.


Phil was hired because of Dolan's friend in the music business that fills his arenas on the East and West Coasts..All these pieces are assets that adds to the bottom line in Dolan's eyes..Phil is here to collect a check and what's left on his contract..Phil won already, he is doing things his way and winning isn't a priority..He said so in his press conference..

I tune in to see competitive games within reason...Watching guys play who probably wouldn't otherwise be in the league isn't fun for me...I live close to Westchester, I can get that from the DLeague..Phil loves it tho because they do as he says...So the Broadway show is working for some of Phil supporters and Dolan...Others like me want more...

At this point you are just trolling. Time to walk away from the keyboard

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crzymdups
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4/20/2017  12:22 PM    LAST EDITED: 4/20/2017  12:23 PM
fishmike wrote:continuity doesnt help when the players stink.

The point is we've let some good ones go. Last year in Houston, their fan base thought Harden stank. And he did. Last year.

I agree with mister earl's post. I think a lot of us have said we'd have been better off if we didn't make the Melo trade, we had some continuity going for the first time in ages.

Some even said back in 2010 why sign Amar'e when we already had David Lee. Other than one half season where Amar'e looked like an MVP, Lee has been much better over the past seven years - I believe he even made more all-star games than Amar'e in that span.

Obviously everything impacts everything else and our picks would've never been the same, but we could be trotting out this home grown lineup right now -

Lin, Galloway, Baker
Hardaway, Shumpert
Ariza, Gallinari
KP, Wilson Chandler, old Man DLee in spot minutes, wizened coaching vet role
Willy, Frye, Mozgov

Dear god, isn't that a better lineup than anything we've seen in years? Not a real superstar, but a deep team with lots of talent.

Anyway, it's neither here nor there. But I think a lot of us would rather build a home grown team.

One of my biggest fears is that we take our lumps for a few years and draft a nice young core, Phil retires, new guy comes in and packages a bunch of young players and picks to get 30yr old Russell Westbrook on the marquee. That is Knicks business history.

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holfresh
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4/20/2017  12:35 PM
martin wrote:
holfresh wrote:
misterearl wrote:
holfresh wrote:
misterearl wrote:Burning Question: Are the Knicks just another Broadway show?

From whose perspective, Dolan or us??..Phil is just another show piece...

Excellent Question

Dolan first.

Second, the people who view The Garden as the place to be seen.


Phil was hired because of Dolan's friend in the music business that fills his arenas on the East and West Coasts..All these pieces are assets that adds to the bottom line in Dolan's eyes..Phil is here to collect a check and what's left on his contract..Phil won already, he is doing things his way and winning isn't a priority..He said so in his press conference..

I tune in to see competitive games within reason...Watching guys play who probably wouldn't otherwise be in the league isn't fun for me...I live close to Westchester, I can get that from the DLeague..Phil loves it tho because they do as he says...So the Broadway show is working for some of Phil supporters and Dolan...Others like me want more...

At this point you are just trolling. Time to walk away from the keyboard

Phil just admitted he told Dolan he wasn't here to win a Championship...Phil had 6 undrafted players on the team this year...What am I missing??

martin
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4/20/2017  1:08 PM
holfresh wrote:
martin wrote:
holfresh wrote:
misterearl wrote:
holfresh wrote:
misterearl wrote:Burning Question: Are the Knicks just another Broadway show?

From whose perspective, Dolan or us??..Phil is just another show piece...

Excellent Question

Dolan first.

Second, the people who view The Garden as the place to be seen.


Phil was hired because of Dolan's friend in the music business that fills his arenas on the East and West Coasts..All these pieces are assets that adds to the bottom line in Dolan's eyes..Phil is here to collect a check and what's left on his contract..Phil won already, he is doing things his way and winning isn't a priority..He said so in his press conference..

I tune in to see competitive games within reason...Watching guys play who probably wouldn't otherwise be in the league isn't fun for me...I live close to Westchester, I can get that from the DLeague..Phil loves it tho because they do as he says...So the Broadway show is working for some of Phil supporters and Dolan...Others like me want more...

At this point you are just trolling. Time to walk away from the keyboard

Phil just admitted he told Dolan he wasn't here to win a Championship...Phil had 6 undrafted players on the team this year...What am I missing??

what was the full quote? cuase I don't think you heard it right or dont really want to. and has there been other quotes by Phil saying he wanted to bring a championship to NY?

I mean, this is the lowest you can get as a troll

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HofstraBBall
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4/20/2017  1:24 PM
fishmike wrote:continuity doesnt help when the players stink.

True. But who picked the players?

Melo Haters = Lin lovers who are mad Houston paid so much for his 15 Minutes,
holfresh
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4/20/2017  1:41 PM    LAST EDITED: 4/20/2017  1:53 PM
martin wrote:
holfresh wrote:
martin wrote:
holfresh wrote:
misterearl wrote:
holfresh wrote:
misterearl wrote:Burning Question: Are the Knicks just another Broadway show?

From whose perspective, Dolan or us??..Phil is just another show piece...

Excellent Question

Dolan first.

Second, the people who view The Garden as the place to be seen.


Phil was hired because of Dolan's friend in the music business that fills his arenas on the East and West Coasts..All these pieces are assets that adds to the bottom line in Dolan's eyes..Phil is here to collect a check and what's left on his contract..Phil won already, he is doing things his way and winning isn't a priority..He said so in his press conference..

I tune in to see competitive games within reason...Watching guys play who probably wouldn't otherwise be in the league isn't fun for me...I live close to Westchester, I can get that from the DLeague..Phil loves it tho because they do as he says...So the Broadway show is working for some of Phil supporters and Dolan...Others like me want more...

At this point you are just trolling. Time to walk away from the keyboard

Phil just admitted he told Dolan he wasn't here to win a Championship...Phil had 6 undrafted players on the team this year...What am I missing??

what was the full quote? cuase I don't think you heard it right or dont really want to. and has there been other quotes by Phil saying he wanted to bring a championship to NY?

I mean, this is the lowest you can get as a troll

I don't get the troll talk..I bring facts...Is this a joke??..If you didn't hear the press conference you should listen to it...

“That’s O.K. with me. I didn’t come here just to particularly win a championship but to do things that were directed by my instructions by Dolan — let’s have something that is identifiable in who we are and how we play.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/14/sports/basketball/knicks-phil-jackson-breaks-the-silence-but-the-turmoil-is-intact.html

martin
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4/20/2017  1:57 PM
holfresh wrote:
martin wrote:
holfresh wrote:
martin wrote:
holfresh wrote:
misterearl wrote:
holfresh wrote:
misterearl wrote:Burning Question: Are the Knicks just another Broadway show?

From whose perspective, Dolan or us??..Phil is just another show piece...

Excellent Question

Dolan first.

Second, the people who view The Garden as the place to be seen.


Phil was hired because of Dolan's friend in the music business that fills his arenas on the East and West Coasts..All these pieces are assets that adds to the bottom line in Dolan's eyes..Phil is here to collect a check and what's left on his contract..Phil won already, he is doing things his way and winning isn't a priority..He said so in his press conference..

I tune in to see competitive games within reason...Watching guys play who probably wouldn't otherwise be in the league isn't fun for me...I live close to Westchester, I can get that from the DLeague..Phil loves it tho because they do as he says...So the Broadway show is working for some of Phil supporters and Dolan...Others like me want more...

At this point you are just trolling. Time to walk away from the keyboard

Phil just admitted he told Dolan he wasn't here to win a Championship...Phil had 6 undrafted players on the team this year...What am I missing??

what was the full quote? cuase I don't think you heard it right or dont really want to. and has there been other quotes by Phil saying he wanted to bring a championship to NY?

I mean, this is the lowest you can get as a troll

I don't get the troll talk..I bring facts...Is this a joke??..If you didn't hear the press conference you should listen to it...

“That’s O.K. with me. I didn’t come here just to particularly win a championship but to do things that were directed by my instructions by Dolan — let’s have something that is identifiable in who we are and how we play.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/14/sports/basketball/knicks-phil-jackson-breaks-the-silence-but-the-turmoil-is-intact.html

Let me interpret this for you since you are being so willingly blind and have taken a 3rd grade literal level to the obvious.

Phil: I've not only come here to win a championship but to also put in a system.

You read this as: He isn't here to win a Championship.

That is flat trolling. Your words: "Phil just admitted he told Dolan he wasn't here to win a Championship"

When you say "I didn’t come here just to particularly win a championship" that means you want to win a championship and there are other things to also accomplish.

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holfresh
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4/20/2017  1:59 PM    LAST EDITED: 4/20/2017  2:00 PM
martin wrote:
holfresh wrote:
martin wrote:
holfresh wrote:
martin wrote:
holfresh wrote:
misterearl wrote:
holfresh wrote:
misterearl wrote:Burning Question: Are the Knicks just another Broadway show?

From whose perspective, Dolan or us??..Phil is just another show piece...

Excellent Question

Dolan first.

Second, the people who view The Garden as the place to be seen.


Phil was hired because of Dolan's friend in the music business that fills his arenas on the East and West Coasts..All these pieces are assets that adds to the bottom line in Dolan's eyes..Phil is here to collect a check and what's left on his contract..Phil won already, he is doing things his way and winning isn't a priority..He said so in his press conference..

I tune in to see competitive games within reason...Watching guys play who probably wouldn't otherwise be in the league isn't fun for me...I live close to Westchester, I can get that from the DLeague..Phil loves it tho because they do as he says...So the Broadway show is working for some of Phil supporters and Dolan...Others like me want more...

At this point you are just trolling. Time to walk away from the keyboard

Phil just admitted he told Dolan he wasn't here to win a Championship...Phil had 6 undrafted players on the team this year...What am I missing??

what was the full quote? cuase I don't think you heard it right or dont really want to. and has there been other quotes by Phil saying he wanted to bring a championship to NY?

I mean, this is the lowest you can get as a troll

I don't get the troll talk..I bring facts...Is this a joke??..If you didn't hear the press conference you should listen to it...

“That’s O.K. with me. I didn’t come here just to particularly win a championship but to do things that were directed by my instructions by Dolan — let’s have something that is identifiable in who we are and how we play.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/14/sports/basketball/knicks-phil-jackson-breaks-the-silence-but-the-turmoil-is-intact.html

Let me interpret this for you since you are being so willingly blind and have taken a 3rd grade literal level to the obvious.

Phil: I've not only come here to win a championship but to also put in a system.

You read this as: He isn't here to win a Championship.

That is flat trolling. Your words: "Phil just admitted he told Dolan he wasn't here to win a Championship"


Give me a break..Is that the best you can do..Please!!!

It's a lame response for Phil...Lame anyway you slice it..It can't be defended!!
Is Internal Continuity (patience)Our Worst Enemy?

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