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Is Internal Continuity (patience)Our Worst Enemy?
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misterearl
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4/19/2017  6:11 PM
Thinking about the number of former Knicks scattered around the NBA, and the unrest with Portzingis deliberately avoiding his post season sit down with Phil Jackson, the dissension is a recurring theme.

JR Smith, Channing Frye, Robin Lopez, Iman Shumpert, Trevor Ariza, Tim Hardaway Jr., Timofey Mozgov are all still productive players.

Kurt Rambis, holdover from the previous head coach, has a questionable standing with his players. Notice a theme here?

Until the Knicks, as a franchise, heal their issues with continuity. leadership and cohesion from the top down - the franchise will be doomed to mediocrity. Period. End of story.

once a knick always a knick
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Uptown
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4/19/2017  6:34 PM
misterearl wrote:Thinking about the number of former Knicks scattered around the NBA, and the unrest with Portzingis deliberately avoiding his post season sit down with Phil Jackson, the dissension is a recurring theme.

JR Smith, Channing Frye, Robin Lopez, Iman Shumpert, Trevor Ariza, Tim Hardaway Jr., Timofey Mozgov are all still productive players.

Kurt Rambis, holdover from the previous head coach, has a questionable standing with his players. Notice a theme here?

Until the Knicks, as a franchise, heal their issues with continuity. leadership and cohesion from the top down - the franchise will be doomed to mediocrity. Period. End of story.

Welcome back Misterearl!!! Oh...agreed!

arkrud
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4/19/2017  6:36 PM
Totally agree... but...
Not like this list represent some star power or even some 2-way building blocks.
The best players we let go are still not so good.
Continuity, leadership, and cohesion comes from within.
It takes years to build even after organization committed to do so.
This what Kristaps wants... stop this bull-crp and have direction.
If its rebuild - rebuild, if it is star-punch strapunch.
Otherwise I think he is fine. He just stated that he will not be a puppet but need to have all cards open by the organisation.
This are the players we need.
He can teach them to meditate... but no one can control even his own mind...
nixluva
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4/19/2017  6:44 PM
Of course the Knicks have to fix any issues with disunity and unhappiness between the Front office, Coaching and Players. That said I think the MEDIA is overstating the actual issues with the roster. I would be willing to guarantee that MOST of the roster does not have any serious issues with the Front Office or Coaches!!! The leaks of players being in "Open Rebellion" and hating Rambis etc are probably coming from just a couple of guys. How do I come to this view?

It's simple logic. The ONLY player left on the roster to actually show some kind of aggravation has been KP and for all we know this was a direct reaction to the Phil and Melo feud. There hasn't been any other legit factors raised that KP has that can really be proven by his statements or his play on the court. Aside from KP, BJ who was let go and obviously Melo we don't have any other players taking any kind of stand in opposition to the Front Office or Coaches. Rose is trying to come back. Everyone else has been silent and for all we know they had their Exit Interviews without any issue.

So really what are we talking about here? A losing season which is going to always cause some level of annoyance and the Melo issue between him and Phil which by extension seems to have ticked off KP who wants Melo to stay. This BS about the Triangle is simply a Media Creation. MOST of the players have adjusted to the Triangle just fine and we saw that with how they played down the stretch. KP said he wanted MORE Triangle and that he likes the Triangle, so why would he not go to his Exit Interview based on the Triangle??? MEDIA BS.

Next season even with new players there will be a substantial returning group and more continuity than this season.

misterearl
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4/19/2017  7:19 PM
nixluva - as Bill Parcells taught us, "you ARE what your record says you are."

31 wins from a roster with this level of talent is inexcusable. You can blame, or defer to, the media all you want but the results on the floor are what they are and they are by no means satisfactory. Watching the playoffs, and actual TEAMS playing with a collective passion and cohesiveness is very different from what was displayed in The World's Most Famous Arena.

There is no such thing as simple logic and NO ONE here is privy to what the conversation is in the locker room, or more important - on the team plane or over pancakes on the road. The thing is broken. No matter who dresses out in orange and blue - the thing is broken... and it had been broken for years.

The Triangle is a distraction.

There is something wrong with the corporate culture that is in charge of decision-making with regard to the roster and its maintenance. These are people, not spare parts to change out on a hunch. Based on the evidence, there is ZERO guarantee of continuity heading into the 2017-18 season. Whatever drama is manufactured, amplified or mis-represented by the media is a constant. That goes with being on Seventh Avenue and being on Broadway.

Next season is already here and our core player wants to play for Latvia. From many angles, that worries me.

Something is wrong with the patient and it is not getting any better.

once a knick always a knick
misterearl
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4/19/2017  7:21 PM
Thank you Uptown. Wish we were watching our boys in the playoffs.
once a knick always a knick
nixluva
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4/19/2017  7:36 PM
misterearl wrote:nixluva - as Bill Parcells taught us, "you ARE what your record says you are."

31 wins from a roster with this level of talent is inexcusable. You can blame, or defer to, the media all you want but the results on the floor are what they are and they are by no means satisfactory. Watching the playoffs, and actual TEAMS playing with a collective passion and cohesiveness is very different from what was displayed in The World's Most Famous Arena.

There is no such thing as simple logic and NO ONE here is privy to what the conversation is in the locker room, or more important - on the team plane or over pancakes on the road. The thing is broken. No matter who dresses out in orange and blue - the thing is broken... and it had been broken for years.

The Triangle is a distraction.

There is something wrong with the corporate culture that is in charge of decision-making with regard to the roster and its maintenance. These are people, not spare parts to change out on a hunch. Based on the evidence, there is ZERO guarantee of continuity heading into the 2017-18 season. Whatever drama is manufactured, amplified or mis-represented by the media is a constant. That goes with being on Seventh Avenue and being on Broadway.

Next season is already here and our core player wants to play for Latvia. From many angles, that worries me.

Something is wrong with the patient and it is not getting any better.

KP ALWAYS wanted to play for Latvia so come on man! When you and the Media can provide PROOF KP was angry about the Triangle and that there is a team wide rebellion against the Triangle I'll take this more seriously but until then it's just a Media Fabrication.

KP hasn't made any clear verbal statements about his Exit Meeting. All we have is Media speculation and unnamed sources!!! That's the problem with the NY Media. They can't wait to blow any issue out of proportion. The team closed the regular season on a relatively positive note. Not until the Exit Meeting where Phil told Melo he should move on did we have any sign of strife. If KP goes to his meeting there would be no controversy outside of Melo being traded. THERE IS NO PROOF OF WIDESPREAD REBELLION.

CrushAlot
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4/19/2017  7:39 PM
The Knicks were 29th in continuity rating this past year for their roster. They have been bottom three all of Phil's time in NY. I think the Knicks would be bottom three if the rating was for coaching as well. It is one of the many reasons blaming one player for the Knicks problems is a big mistake.
I've seen scant proof that a majestic aura trumps a sound plan, but maybe that's just because I wasn't looking at Phil Jackson... Seth Rosenthal 2014
misterearl
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4/19/2017  7:44 PM
CrushAlot - continuity rating huh? Nice catch.

Metrics are always helpful to validate an opinion, no matter how crazy it may be. All I know is there are too many former Knicks playing in other uniforms and playing better in those uniforms. Meanwhile, our payroll sky high and team morale is disjointed, at best.

29th in anything is not a good look.

once a knick always a knick
misterearl
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4/19/2017  7:50 PM
nixluva - please do not confuse, conflate or coagulate the issues. Whether KP (or anyone else) enjoys the triangle or not, is NOT the issue.

The issue is that, at this point in time, the entire organization is fundamentally dysfunctional and the results on the floor are evidence. Losing 51 games is lottery material and our roster is NOT lottery material. One must look inward, not outward. The responsibility has ZERO to do with the media.

The responsibility lies with the administration.

once a knick always a knick
newyorknewyork
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4/19/2017  7:58 PM
misterearl wrote:Thinking about the number of former Knicks scattered around the NBA, and the unrest with Portzingis deliberately avoiding his post season sit down with Phil Jackson, the dissension is a recurring theme.

JR Smith, Channing Frye, Robin Lopez, Iman Shumpert, Trevor Ariza, Tim Hardaway Jr., Timofey Mozgov are all still productive players.

Kurt Rambis, holdover from the previous head coach, has a questionable standing with his players. Notice a theme here?

Until the Knicks, as a franchise, heal their issues with continuity. leadership and cohesion from the top down - the franchise will be doomed to mediocrity. Period. End of story.

There are many more such as Crawford and Randolph.

Majority of these players though have taken reduced roles and responsibilities compared to what they were expected or needed to be for us. That has been one of our problems due to poor management.

arkrud
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4/19/2017  8:00 PM
misterearl wrote:nixluva - as Bill Parcells taught us, "you ARE what your record says you are."

31 wins from a roster with this level of talent is inexcusable. You can blame, or defer to, the media all you want but the results on the floor are what they are and they are by no means satisfactory. Watching the playoffs, and actual TEAMS playing with a collective passion and cohesiveness is very different from what was displayed in The World's Most Famous Arena.

There is no such thing as simple logic and NO ONE here is privy to what the conversation is in the locker room, or more important - on the team plane or over pancakes on the road. The thing is broken. No matter who dresses out in orange and blue - the thing is broken... and it had been broken for years.

The Triangle is a distraction.

There is something wrong with the corporate culture that is in charge of decision-making with regard to the roster and its maintenance. These are people, not spare parts to change out on a hunch. Based on the evidence, there is ZERO guarantee of continuity heading into the 2017-18 season. Whatever drama is manufactured, amplified or mis-represented by the media is a constant. That goes with being on Seventh Avenue and being on Broadway.

Next season is already here and our core player wants to play for Latvia. From many angles, that worries me.

Something is wrong with the patient and it is not getting any better.

Dirk international crier... I think Kristaps will try to do some of it...



Year Competition GP MPG FG% 3P% FT% RPG APG SPG BPG PPG
1997 EuroBasket qualification 1 3.0 .000 .000 .000 .0 .0 .0 .0 .0
1999 EuroBasket qualification 3 16.7 .600 .750 1.000 4.0 .3 .3 .0 13.7
1999 EuroBasket 9 31.3 .582 .529 .771 3.4 1.8 .9 .0 15.2
2001 EuroBasket 7 33.9 .516 .426 .714 9.1 1.9 1.3 1.0 28.7
2002* World Championship 9 31.2 .407 .286 .921 8.2 2.7 1.2 2.0 24.0
2003 EuroBasket 4 34.8 .453 .455 .841 6.2 1.0 1.3 1.8 22.5
2005 EuroBasket qualification 5 32.4 .500 .364 .809 11.6 2.2 1.8 .8 23.6
2005^ EuroBasket 7 36.9 .411 .371 .885 10.6 1.7 1.1 1.9 26.1
2006 World Championship 9 33.6 .434 .286 .823 9.2 2.8 1.0 .6 23.2
2007 EuroBasket 9 33.9 .432 .313 .860 8.7 1.6 .9 .9 24.0
2008 Olympic Games qualification 5 31.2 .500 .435 .922 8.2 2.6 .2 1.0 26.6
2008 Olympic Games 5 28.4 .419 .417 .958 8.4 .6 .2 .0 17.0
2011 EuroBasket 8 29.9 .442 .421 .933 6.6 1.4 .4 .4 19.5
2015 EuroBasket 5 28.0 .364 .333 .857 7.8 1.6 .0 .2 13.8
Career 86 31.4 .452 .379 .855 7.1 1.8 .9 .9 21.5
He can teach them to meditate... but no one can control even his own mind...
martin
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4/19/2017  8:16 PM
CrushAlot wrote:The Knicks were 29th in continuity rating this past year for their roster. They have been bottom three all of Phil's time in NY. I think the Knicks would be bottom three if the rating was for coaching as well. It is one of the many reasons blaming one player for the Knicks problems is a big mistake.

After tearing down the roster, you would have the Knicks keep the DLeague and trash players over the long haul to keep consistency? One must turn over the roster if you want to upgrade the talent. Obviously you can't do that every year but considering year 1 was the tear down, I would expect year 2 and 3 to be not good turnover wise.

Everyone wants to put blame somewhere.

And Crush, I know you are a big DLeague guy. If you want to nurture guys in the DLeauge and give as many of them a chance, you have to roll the dice a LOT. Can't have it both ways.

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nixluva
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4/19/2017  8:19 PM
misterearl wrote:nixluva - please do not confuse, conflate or coagulate the issues. Whether KP (or anyone else) enjoys the triangle or not, is NOT the issue.

The issue is that, at this point in time, the entire organization is fundamentally dysfunctional and the results on the floor are evidence. Losing 51 games is lottery material and our roster is NOT lottery material. One must look inward, not outward. The responsibility has ZERO to do with the media.

The responsibility lies with the administration.

Sorry but Melo and Rose were supposed to be solid vets along with CLee, Noah etc. These guys know by now how to play the right way. If I was coach they should still have been able to come together and play at least .500 ball. This is on the players themselves. This is not about Jeff or Phil. The kids played hard and as a team so clearly they got the message. Why was it so hard for the vets???

Vmart
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4/19/2017  8:21 PM
These players look great with great players around them. Last time we had great players they were old but still put the team in their backs and willed it to 54 wins. Kidd the ultimate leader which has been lacking for years now. Is it so hard to understand that we have been missing a leader. The teams that the Knicks always put together always lacks this element. No wonder the ones that leave do a little bit better or find success.
misterearl
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4/19/2017  9:06 PM
newyorknewyork - another nice catch.

Zach Randolph is an all star talent who did not fit the Knicks agenda at the moment. Jamal Crawford is still dishing and swishing. The list is long.

Think of it this way... why is a franchise like San Antonio able to find players to cohere to its way of doing things? Not just on the court, but the Spurs have a playing personality that spells, "you mess with one of us, you mess with all of us."

Why is that?

once a knick always a knick
nixluva
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4/19/2017  9:10 PM
Vmart wrote:These players look great with great players around them. Last time we had great players they were old but still put the team in their backs and willed it to 54 wins. Kidd the ultimate leader which has been lacking for years now. Is it so hard to understand that we have been missing a leader. The teams that the Knicks always put together always lacks this element. No wonder the ones that leave do a little bit better or find success.

THIS!!!
HofstraBBall
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4/19/2017  9:21 PM
nixluva wrote:
Vmart wrote:These players look great with great players around them. Last time we had great players they were old but still put the team in their backs and willed it to 54 wins. Kidd the ultimate leader which has been lacking for years now. Is it so hard to understand that we have been missing a leader. The teams that the Knicks always put together always lacks this element. No wonder the ones that leave do a little bit better or find success.

THIS!!!

Sorry. Did not realize Kidd was that years team MVP?

Melo Haters = Lin lovers who are mad Houston paid so much for his 15 Minutes,
HofstraBBall
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4/19/2017  9:35 PM
martin wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:The Knicks were 29th in continuity rating this past year for their roster. They have been bottom three all of Phil's time in NY. I think the Knicks would be bottom three if the rating was for coaching as well. It is one of the many reasons blaming one player for the Knicks problems is a big mistake.

After tearing down the roster, you would have the Knicks keep the DLeague and trash players over the long haul to keep consistency? One must turn over the roster if you want to upgrade the talent. Obviously you can't do that every year but considering year 1 was the tear down, I would expect year 2 and 3 to be not good turnover wise.

Everyone wants to put blame somewhere.

And Crush, I know you are a big DLeague guy. If you want to nurture guys in the DLeauge and give as many of them a chance, you have to roll the dice a LOT. Can't have it both ways.

Agreed. Turnover was a neccesasity as the talent level was not long standing. However, to clear the person who evaluated and chose the roster, of all responsibilty, displays lack of general accountability. The issue for me is not so much continuity but rather how in spite of not having any, some still would blame one player for the result.

Melo Haters = Lin lovers who are mad Houston paid so much for his 15 Minutes,
holfresh
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4/19/2017  10:15 PM
misterearl wrote:nixluva - as Bill Parcells taught us, "you ARE what your record says you are."

31 wins from a roster with this level of talent is inexcusable. You can blame, or defer to, the media all you want but the results on the floor are what they are and they are by no means satisfactory. Watching the playoffs, and actual TEAMS playing with a collective passion and cohesiveness is very different from what was displayed in The World's Most Famous Arena.

There is no such thing as simple logic and NO ONE here is privy to what the conversation is in the locker room, or more important - on the team plane or over pancakes on the road. The thing is broken. No matter who dresses out in orange and blue - the thing is broken... and it had been broken for years.

The Triangle is a distraction.

There is something wrong with the corporate culture that is in charge of decision-making with regard to the roster and its maintenance. These are people, not spare parts to change out on a hunch. Based on the evidence, there is ZERO guarantee of continuity heading into the 2017-18 season. Whatever drama is manufactured, amplified or mis-represented by the media is a constant. That goes with being on Seventh Avenue and being on Broadway.

Next season is already here and our core player wants to play for Latvia. From many angles, that worries me.

Something is wrong with the patient and it is not getting any better.

Rambis 2016 before the olympics:

New York Knicks head coach Kurt Rambis believes Kristaps Porzingis may be better off without playing in this summer's Olympics in Rio De Janeiro, according to Marc Berman of the New York Post.

“When I’m talking about playing, I’m talking about here,’” Rambis told reporters on Friday. “Players growing up today, they play too much. A lot of summer can be used to develop strengths and work on aspects of your game. When you play you’re going back to your strengths and instincts. Sometimes playing can be bad and not conducive to player development.”

“If I had my choice, it’s obvious what I want. But I understand commitment to country. From a selfish standpoint, looking at from a purely Knicks standpoint, we want him working with us.”

Is Internal Continuity (patience)Our Worst Enemy?

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