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OT: Boston in a world of first round hurt? ...until next offseason?
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martin
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4/19/2017  2:21 PM
Haven't really watched the series so I'll state that up front. Seems like the Bulls have just the right mix of players to neutralize/match Boston strengths - guards guards guards.

IF, big if, the Celtics lost, would big changes be next? They obviously have a huge draft pick coming up. This offseason may be their best opportunity to add new player while their cap space is plentiful, next year will be dicey for them.

Man I would target Blake G big time.

Horford
Blake
Crowder
I.Thomas, Ball/Fultz?
Bradley

If not Blake then Gordon Hayward? Would you take a 3 year flier on Paul Milsap?

After that you probably need to trade for talent at the PF spot.

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SupremeCommander
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4/19/2017  2:29 PM
They signed Al Horford to be their go to guy and he has never been that in his career. I feel like a Melo for Horford + and some combination of pics and/or yoots might have a real possibility of happening if they nosedive.
Jimmy D w/o a straight shot said: In two hours, [Jackson] taught me basketball, and I learned I know nothing about basketball
JrZyHuStLa
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4/19/2017  2:32 PM    LAST EDITED: 4/19/2017  2:36 PM
I've watched the series pretty closely so far. As good as Boston is, they're overly physical with little finesse and fluidity. I really think they can afford to take their foot off the pedal with all the grinding they do and add Carmelo to increase the opportunities to create easier scoring.

This would be a monster choke job.

martin
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4/19/2017  2:34 PM
SupremeCommander wrote:They signed Al Horford to be their go to guy and he has never been that in his career. I feel like a Melo for Horford + and some combination of pics and/or yoots might have a real possibility of happening if they nosedive.

Huh? Melo for Horford? That doesn't get Boston anywhere.

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JrZyHuStLa
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4/19/2017  2:35 PM
martin wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:They signed Al Horford to be their go to guy and he has never been that in his career. I feel like a Melo for Horford + and some combination of pics and/or yoots might have a real possibility of happening if they nosedive.

Huh? Melo for Horford? That doesn't get Boston anywhere.

Nor do I want 3 more years of Horford's contract.

martin
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4/19/2017  2:43 PM
JrZyHuStLa wrote:
martin wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:They signed Al Horford to be their go to guy and he has never been that in his career. I feel like a Melo for Horford + and some combination of pics and/or yoots might have a real possibility of happening if they nosedive.

Huh? Melo for Horford? That doesn't get Boston anywhere.

Nor do I want 3 more years of Horford's contract.

Right doesn't make sense from the Knicks end either considering Noah, KP, Willy, KOQ.

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SupremeCommander
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4/19/2017  2:56 PM    LAST EDITED: 4/19/2017  2:59 PM
martin wrote:
JrZyHuStLa wrote:
martin wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:They signed Al Horford to be their go to guy and he has never been that in his career. I feel like a Melo for Horford + and some combination of pics and/or yoots might have a real possibility of happening if they nosedive.

Huh? Melo for Horford? That doesn't get Boston anywhere.

Nor do I want 3 more years of Horford's contract.

Right doesn't make sense from the Knicks end either considering Noah, KP, Willy, KOQ.

I disagree. The problem with all these Melo deals is who are they going to send back? At $30mm or whatever Melo is going to make after the kicker, Bosotn would have to trade half its roster. Melo > Horford. Horford is the vehicle to get us back draft picks and/or younger players.

You admit to not watching the games... the entire reason Boston is struggling is that they don't have a go-to guy except for one that's 5'9". This gets them that go-to guy and is the only way I can think of to make the contracts work

Also, Jesey, I'm not interested in Horford. I am interested in their young players/picks though. Melo's deal is one year less than Horford's though. I'd be okay with that if all of a sudden the Knicks lineup is:

draftpick
Lee
Crowder
Horford
KP

Jimmy D w/o a straight shot said: In two hours, [Jackson] taught me basketball, and I learned I know nothing about basketball
JesseDark
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4/19/2017  2:58 PM
There problem is they aren't running triangle. Just couldn't resist.
I haven't watched all that intently but they seem to be over matched at every turn.They may lose this one and be one of those teams Phil mentioned that lose in the first round and may be willing to make a trade.
Bring back dee-fense
JrZyHuStLa
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4/19/2017  3:00 PM
I would've shipped my pick for Butler/George if I were Ainge. That would've gotten them over the Lebron hump.
Nalod
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4/19/2017  3:10 PM
No doubt first round loss after being number one seed is a disappointment.
They are still a work in progress and perhaps ahead of schedule. They will have a great pick and some good assets to make a trade with.
Does that include Melo? They should make a run for Haywood. Add him and a number one pick would be pretty good. Use existing assts to plug holes in bench.
Utah is becoming a nice team as well so Haywood has a choice. Big money to stay in Salt Lake, or come east with college coach.
Anger sells, don't buy!
nixluva
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4/19/2017  3:24 PM
I joked that Boston should've made a Melo trade and it was exactly for this reason. Teams get fooled by the regular season all the time. Boston never really impressed me as a playoff team with really only one legit threat!!! Ainge being too Kocky and overconfident about his team.
HofstraBBall
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4/19/2017  4:17 PM
martin wrote:
JrZyHuStLa wrote:
martin wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:They signed Al Horford to be their go to guy and he has never been that in his career. I feel like a Melo for Horford + and some combination of pics and/or yoots might have a real possibility of happening if they nosedive.

Huh? Melo for Horford? That doesn't get Boston anywhere.

Nor do I want 3 more years of Horford's contract.

Right doesn't make sense from the Knicks end either considering Noah, KP, Willy, KOQ.

Agreed. But watcning this series may make some realize how important it is to have guys that can truly create. ie. Melo. Asside from IT, Boston has solid open look shot makers that pass the ball well but no one has a great ability to create his own shot. The thing most dont understand about playoff basketball is that defenses are better and the mediocre solid player is now being covered. Remember Novak in the playoffs? Point is, everyone likes those blue collar guys that hustle but to reach the next level in the playoffs you need at least 2 really talented offensive threats. Boston does not seem to have it. Side note...Rolo has been huge for the Bulls.

Melo Haters = Lin lovers who are mad Houston paid so much for his 15 Minutes,
nyknickzingis
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4/19/2017  4:29 PM
Melo is a good option for Boston
But I can't see them give up more than Jae Crowder and change.

Maybe Jae Crowder and Avery Bradley for Melo.
They draft Jackson

Horford/Olnyk
Melo/Amir
Jackson
Smart/Brown
Thomas

Nice core and rotation to have plus 30$M in space to make team better with free agents.

NardDogNation
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4/19/2017  4:53 PM
martin wrote:Haven't really watched the series so I'll state that up front. Seems like the Bulls have just the right mix of players to neutralize/match Boston strengths - guards guards guards.

IF, big if, the Celtics lost, would big changes be next? They obviously have a huge draft pick coming up. This offseason may be their best opportunity to add new player while their cap space is plentiful, next year will be dicey for them.

Man I would target Blake G big time.

Horford
Blake
Crowder
I.Thomas, Ball/Fultz?
Bradley

If not Blake then Gordon Hayward? Would you take a 3 year flier on Paul Milsap?

After that you probably need to trade for talent at the PF spot.

Would it make more sense, for both sides, to have CP3 and Melo conspire to go to BOS with their current core intact and then have Isiah Thomas and an Avery Bradley head to LAC?

CP3 would be allowed the opportunity to play with one of his good friends in Melo, have a superior X's and O's coach in Brad Stevens, and an easier road to the Finals.

Melo would be allowed the opportunity to compete for a title for the first time in his career, would be in close proximity to his child post-divorce and would have his defensive deficiencies masked by one of the better defensive teams in the league.

The Celtics would be allowed to better compete in the present, while augmenting their bench with youth that will inevitably supplant the starters. One of the draft's elite PGs would be a great understudy for CP3 until he inevitably breaks down.

The Clippers would likely be worsened but would extend their window since Bradley and Thomas are 4-6 years younger than CP3. I'm also of the opinion that Blake Griffin would be in a better position to showcase the full range of his skills with Isiah moreso than CP3; and that Isiah would be better utilized as a scorer, rather than a playmaker, playing next to a guy like Blake.

Moonangie
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4/19/2017  4:59 PM
NardDogNation wrote:
martin wrote:Haven't really watched the series so I'll state that up front. Seems like the Bulls have just the right mix of players to neutralize/match Boston strengths - guards guards guards.

IF, big if, the Celtics lost, would big changes be next? They obviously have a huge draft pick coming up. This offseason may be their best opportunity to add new player while their cap space is plentiful, next year will be dicey for them.

Man I would target Blake G big time.

Horford
Blake
Crowder
I.Thomas, Ball/Fultz?
Bradley

If not Blake then Gordon Hayward? Would you take a 3 year flier on Paul Milsap?

After that you probably need to trade for talent at the PF spot.

Would it make more sense, for both sides, to have CP3 and Melo conspire to go to BOS with their current core intact and then have Isiah Thomas and an Avery Bradley head to LAC?

CP3 would be allowed the opportunity to play with one of his good friends in Melo, have a superior X's and O's coach in Brad Stevens, and an easier road to the Finals.

Melo would be allowed the opportunity to compete for a title for the first time in his career, would be in close proximity to his child post-divorce and would have his defensive deficiencies masked by one of the better defensive teams in the league.

The Celtics would be allowed to better compete in the present, while augmenting their bench with youth that will inevitably supplant the starters. One of the draft's elite PGs would be a great understudy for CP3 until he inevitably breaks down.

The Clippers would likely be worsened but would extend their window since Bradley and Thomas are 4-6 years younger than CP3. I'm also of the opinion that Blake Griffin would be in a better position to showcase the full range of his skills with Isiah moreso than CP3; and that Isiah would be better utilized as a scorer, rather than a playmaker, playing next to a guy like Blake.

What do the Knicks get out of losing Melo in this scenario?

NardDogNation
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4/19/2017  5:06 PM
martin wrote:
JrZyHuStLa wrote:
martin wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:They signed Al Horford to be their go to guy and he has never been that in his career. I feel like a Melo for Horford + and some combination of pics and/or yoots might have a real possibility of happening if they nosedive.

Huh? Melo for Horford? That doesn't get Boston anywhere.

Nor do I want 3 more years of Horford's contract.

Right doesn't make sense from the Knicks end either considering Noah, KP, Willy, KOQ.

I actually think Horford would be a brillant compliment and mentor to KP irrespective of the big men we already have on the roster. He could float seeminglessly between the 4-5 spots, is a great defender, solid floor spacer and is a capable passer. The last few years of his contract wouldn't look pretty but it's the best value for Melo I've heard so far. And chances are we'd have to send a big man back (i.e. Kyle O'Quinn) for it to make sense.

NardDogNation
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4/19/2017  5:08 PM
SupremeCommander wrote:
martin wrote:
JrZyHuStLa wrote:
martin wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:They signed Al Horford to be their go to guy and he has never been that in his career. I feel like a Melo for Horford + and some combination of pics and/or yoots might have a real possibility of happening if they nosedive.

Huh? Melo for Horford? That doesn't get Boston anywhere.

Nor do I want 3 more years of Horford's contract.

Right doesn't make sense from the Knicks end either considering Noah, KP, Willy, KOQ.

I disagree. The problem with all these Melo deals is who are they going to send back? At $30mm or whatever Melo is going to make after the kicker, Bosotn would have to trade half its roster. Melo > Horford. Horford is the vehicle to get us back draft picks and/or younger players.

You admit to not watching the games... the entire reason Boston is struggling is that they don't have a go-to guy except for one that's 5'9". This gets them that go-to guy and is the only way I can think of to make the contracts work

Also, Jesey, I'm not interested in Horford. I am interested in their young players/picks though. Melo's deal is one year less than Horford's though. I'd be okay with that if all of a sudden the Knicks lineup is:

draftpick
Lee
Crowder
Horford
KP

Crowder AND Horford for Melo is overkill. I don't even think Crowder for Melo is realistic at this point. Who are the Celtics even competiting against?

NardDogNation
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4/19/2017  5:15 PM
Moonangie wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
martin wrote:Haven't really watched the series so I'll state that up front. Seems like the Bulls have just the right mix of players to neutralize/match Boston strengths - guards guards guards.

IF, big if, the Celtics lost, would big changes be next? They obviously have a huge draft pick coming up. This offseason may be their best opportunity to add new player while their cap space is plentiful, next year will be dicey for them.

Man I would target Blake G big time.

Horford
Blake
Crowder
I.Thomas, Ball/Fultz?
Bradley

If not Blake then Gordon Hayward? Would you take a 3 year flier on Paul Milsap?

After that you probably need to trade for talent at the PF spot.

Would it make more sense, for both sides, to have CP3 and Melo conspire to go to BOS with their current core intact and then have Isiah Thomas and an Avery Bradley head to LAC?

CP3 would be allowed the opportunity to play with one of his good friends in Melo, have a superior X's and O's coach in Brad Stevens, and an easier road to the Finals.

Melo would be allowed the opportunity to compete for a title for the first time in his career, would be in close proximity to his child post-divorce and would have his defensive deficiencies masked by one of the better defensive teams in the league.

The Celtics would be allowed to better compete in the present, while augmenting their bench with youth that will inevitably supplant the starters. One of the draft's elite PGs would be a great understudy for CP3 until he inevitably breaks down.

The Clippers would likely be worsened but would extend their window since Bradley and Thomas are 4-6 years younger than CP3. I'm also of the opinion that Blake Griffin would be in a better position to showcase the full range of his skills with Isiah moreso than CP3; and that Isiah would be better utilized as a scorer, rather than a playmaker, playing next to a guy like Blake.

What do the Knicks get out of losing Melo in this scenario?

Honestly, I'd be willing to take back their dead-weight/expendable contracts and their Brooklyn pick for Melo and our pick. I know that kind of negates what I mentioned earlier about taking one of the elite PG's to be Paul's understudy but I think a Jonathan Isaacs could be every bit as intriguing for them. Chances are they'd want more back to accomodate the loss of a pick that will likely be top 3 and definitely top 4. I'd be willing to give up both Courtney Lee and Kyle O'Quinn but the ask will probably be higher. After all, Isiah Thomas (to LAC), Avery Bradley (to LAC), Jaylen Brown (to LAC), that BKN pick and filler is a lot to give up....even if it is for CP3, Melo, Lee, O'Quinn and a Jonathan Isaac/Frank Ntilikina/Dennis Smith Jr/Malik Monk.

Chandler
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4/19/2017  5:54 PM
as sure as the sun rises tomorrow, the celts do not want melo. I think we can take their word on that.

they will have issues though. They'llhave more picks this year; they stashed some last year

they usually have strong guard play as in they're all tough, strong defenders and rebounders, and one of them (Thomas) can score and shoot.

their bigs are underwhelming

they'd be more interested in Willy than Melo

DJMUSIC: Fisher talked a good game in Post game but aside from that Derek Fisher was ALL CHIT CHAT SH_t and produced nothing!
martin
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4/20/2017  1:46 PM
NardDogNation wrote:
martin wrote:Haven't really watched the series so I'll state that up front. Seems like the Bulls have just the right mix of players to neutralize/match Boston strengths - guards guards guards.

IF, big if, the Celtics lost, would big changes be next? They obviously have a huge draft pick coming up. This offseason may be their best opportunity to add new player while their cap space is plentiful, next year will be dicey for them.

Man I would target Blake G big time.

Horford
Blake
Crowder
I.Thomas, Ball/Fultz?
Bradley

If not Blake then Gordon Hayward? Would you take a 3 year flier on Paul Milsap?

After that you probably need to trade for talent at the PF spot.

Would it make more sense, for both sides, to have CP3 and Melo conspire to go to BOS with their current core intact and then have Isiah Thomas and an Avery Bradley head to LAC?

CP3 would be allowed the opportunity to play with one of his good friends in Melo, have a superior X's and O's coach in Brad Stevens, and an easier road to the Finals.

Melo would be allowed the opportunity to compete for a title for the first time in his career, would be in close proximity to his child post-divorce and would have his defensive deficiencies masked by one of the better defensive teams in the league.

The Celtics would be allowed to better compete in the present, while augmenting their bench with youth that will inevitably supplant the starters. One of the draft's elite PGs would be a great understudy for CP3 until he inevitably breaks down.

The Clippers would likely be worsened but would extend their window since Bradley and Thomas are 4-6 years younger than CP3. I'm also of the opinion that Blake Griffin would be in a better position to showcase the full range of his skills with Isiah moreso than CP3; and that Isiah would be better utilized as a scorer, rather than a playmaker, playing next to a guy like Blake.

From Boston's perspective, I'd want to convince CP3 and Blake to join them, both can be UFA. Sign one of the outright and trade for the other? Try to sign both outright somehow?

Horford
Blake
Jackson
CP3
Bradely

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OT: Boston in a world of first round hurt? ...until next offseason?

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