Robin Lopez
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crzymdups
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4/19/2017  10:54 AM
Bonn1997 wrote:
Vmart wrote:
crzymdups wrote:
Nalod wrote:Imagine Robin on the knicks and how much better we were with him!!!!
Pair him with KP and Melo, and we'd be in the playoffs as the 8th seed up 2-0 on Celtics!!
How did that work?

Great point - we should trade a young healthy center for an older, injured center we can pay more!

Some people just don't understand how this team building stuff works!

There's no fooling you. If Lopez is here you don't find out if Hernangomez can play. There is a trade off there.


Then trade Rolo for a player who is actually worth having - someone of equal value.

I wonder what this season would've looked like if the Knicks kept Rolo and Grant and signed Melo's buddy Wade? Hindsight, maybe, but there's a chance Phil and KP would be on speaking terms in that scenario.

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GustavBahler
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4/19/2017  10:57 AM
The only season Lopez was here we had a rookie coach with no previous experience on any level, didnt know wtf he was doing most of the time. Followed by one of the worst coaches in NBA history. In spite of this, Rolo's numbers went up every month he was a Knick. By the second half of the season, he was putting up some monster games. He's one of the best offensive rebounders in the league, among other things he brings to the table.

KP had the rookie season he did in part because of what Lopez did in the paint. Dont care what Lopez could or couldn't do in the Triangle. We had our front court set for 3-4 years or until Willy learned to play D. Then we could have brought him off the bench, or traded him if Willy does in fact become a legit defender.

Aside from passing, Rolo is doing the things Noah did in his prime. Hasnt missed a game in 2 seasons, and we traded him for a player who has missed more games over the last 3-4 seasons than any other player in the league, on a one year deal. We also signed a player to replace Lopez who is a shell of who he was on the court for a much bigger payday.

Noah returned the favor by showing up out of shape, and getting himself suspended for a drug violation. This was a mistake that Phil in all his years of experience should have spotted a mile away.

Its time for Phil to become a more traditional team president, and do a serious search for a GM, who wont make God awful deals like this. Jackson has shown he can find talented people for the front office when he makes an effort to do so. That time is now.

Nalod
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4/19/2017  11:00 AM
crzymdups wrote:
Vmart wrote:
crzymdups wrote:
Nalod wrote:Imagine Robin on the knicks and how much better we were with him!!!!
Pair him with KP and Melo, and we'd be in the playoffs as the 8th seed up 2-0 on Celtics!!
How did that work?

Great point - we should trade a young healthy center for an older, injured center we can pay more!

Some people just don't understand how this team building stuff works!

There's no fooling you. If Lopez is here you don't find out if Hernangomez can play. There is a trade off there.

That's fair. I'd feel better about the Rolo trade if Noah wasn't signed for three more years though. And there's no disputing that Rolo is the best defender of Willy, noah and he. A platoon of Rolo and Willy at center this year would've been nice. I guess thankfully Noah got injured so Willy could show his stuff the second half of the year? He's still a work in progress on D though.

Isn't it a luxury to in hindsight know all of this?
So if Noah was healthy, do you think knicks would have been that much better? Does Melo pass more? KP not get hurt? Rose don't take the plane to Chicago? Were the knicks problems really about Noah this year??
You do agree that Willy and KOQ did fill in nicely.
Basketball is a team game. Jimmy Butler and other BUlls play a big factor, its not plug and play.

Anger sells, don't buy!
TPercy
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4/19/2017  11:04 AM
Funny enough, I think he would be even better playing in a slower team that suits him, maybe the Knicks?
The Future is Bright!
crzymdups
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4/19/2017  11:05 AM
Nalod wrote:
crzymdups wrote:
Vmart wrote:
crzymdups wrote:
Nalod wrote:Imagine Robin on the knicks and how much better we were with him!!!!
Pair him with KP and Melo, and we'd be in the playoffs as the 8th seed up 2-0 on Celtics!!
How did that work?

Great point - we should trade a young healthy center for an older, injured center we can pay more!

Some people just don't understand how this team building stuff works!

There's no fooling you. If Lopez is here you don't find out if Hernangomez can play. There is a trade off there.

That's fair. I'd feel better about the Rolo trade if Noah wasn't signed for three more years though. And there's no disputing that Rolo is the best defender of Willy, noah and he. A platoon of Rolo and Willy at center this year would've been nice. I guess thankfully Noah got injured so Willy could show his stuff the second half of the year? He's still a work in progress on D though.

Isn't it a luxury to in hindsight know all of this?
So if Noah was healthy, do you think knicks would have been that much better? Does Melo pass more? KP not get hurt? Rose don't take the plane to Chicago? Were the knicks problems really about Noah this year??
You do agree that Willy and KOQ did fill in nicely.
Basketball is a team game. Jimmy Butler and other BUlls play a big factor, its not plug and play.

How is it hindsight if people didn't like it at the time? A lot of people here were sad to give away Rolo and even more sad to sign Noah in his place. There were definitely also people saying "hey it looks like Wade is done in Miami."

Wade would be an ideal triangle fit.

Phil made the Rose trade really early June 12th or something, when it didn't even seem like there was a market for him.

Hey it is what it is. But plenty of people questioned the moves at the time. I tried to put a positive spin on it. But man, when less than a year after the moves were made it is extremely obvious they were bad moves, I think it's fair to call them bad moves.

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Bonn1997
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4/19/2017  11:08 AM    LAST EDITED: 4/19/2017  11:08 AM
crzymdups wrote:
Nalod wrote:
crzymdups wrote:
Vmart wrote:
crzymdups wrote:
Nalod wrote:Imagine Robin on the knicks and how much better we were with him!!!!
Pair him with KP and Melo, and we'd be in the playoffs as the 8th seed up 2-0 on Celtics!!
How did that work?

Great point - we should trade a young healthy center for an older, injured center we can pay more!

Some people just don't understand how this team building stuff works!

There's no fooling you. If Lopez is here you don't find out if Hernangomez can play. There is a trade off there.

That's fair. I'd feel better about the Rolo trade if Noah wasn't signed for three more years though. And there's no disputing that Rolo is the best defender of Willy, noah and he. A platoon of Rolo and Willy at center this year would've been nice. I guess thankfully Noah got injured so Willy could show his stuff the second half of the year? He's still a work in progress on D though.

Isn't it a luxury to in hindsight know all of this?
So if Noah was healthy, do you think knicks would have been that much better? Does Melo pass more? KP not get hurt? Rose don't take the plane to Chicago? Were the knicks problems really about Noah this year??
You do agree that Willy and KOQ did fill in nicely.
Basketball is a team game. Jimmy Butler and other BUlls play a big factor, its not plug and play.

How is it hindsight if people didn't like it at the time? A lot of people here were sad to give away Rolo and even more sad to sign Noah in his place. There were definitely also people saying "hey it looks like Wade is done in Miami."

Wade would be an ideal triangle fit.

Phil made the Rose trade really early June 12th or something, when it didn't even seem like there was a market for him.

Hey it is what it is. But plenty of people questioned the moves at the time. I tried to put a positive spin on it. But man, when less than a year after the moves were made it is extremely obvious they were bad moves, I think it's fair to call them bad moves.

It's not hindsight. Many here could see it from day 1 that most of Phil's signings and trades were bad. (He does deserve credit for KP and Willy though.)

holfresh
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4/19/2017  11:12 AM    LAST EDITED: 4/19/2017  11:13 AM
Bonn1997 wrote:
holfresh wrote:
crzymdups wrote:
holfresh wrote:
MS wrote:Amazing watching Lopez control the glass and provide scoring against the best team in the east, while listening to our smug GM talk about the players we want in this organization like Ron Baker, after trading a center that played 82 games and just goes about his business, doesn't need shots and is a great team guy.

This was another huge zero for Phil. We have a lingering corpse in street clothes signed three more years, suspended and pretending to play.

Hard to imagine Phil pitching a plan, after trading for an injured guard to sign an injured center then praising that point guard as a premier scorer and then emasculating our best player during a press conference who scores the ball at a higher rate.

Robin would have been a great asset to trade to a contending team, but again Phil loves just giving away players for no return.

Control the glass with 8 rebounds..Come on...He hit some key open shots which is good..Noah deal bites the big one tho...

Rolo is really good at boxing out for other players. Bulls have been destroying the Celts on the boards in this series and Rolo has definitely been controlling the paint. Bulls have a lot of guards who swoop down for rebounds like Rondo and Butler and Wade.


KP always rebounded much better playing alongside Rolo.

Insane..AAAhhhhhhh..I showed playoff stats to refute this where Aldridge numbers went up in the playoffs when Rolo sat...KP rebounds the same...

Actually there were articles on this. I don't know if the trend continued all season but mid season (when the articles were written) KP's rebounding was WAY better with Rolo.

KP number dipped in Feb when he got hurt...Went from 7 reb to 4.2..He ended 7.3 last year vs. 7.2 this year..Also when KP began last year he was flying all over the place with put backs..This year it wasn't as frequent..If you to credit Rolo with KP activity level, what can I say..

Bonn1997
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4/19/2017  11:19 AM
holfresh wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
holfresh wrote:
crzymdups wrote:
holfresh wrote:
MS wrote:Amazing watching Lopez control the glass and provide scoring against the best team in the east, while listening to our smug GM talk about the players we want in this organization like Ron Baker, after trading a center that played 82 games and just goes about his business, doesn't need shots and is a great team guy.

This was another huge zero for Phil. We have a lingering corpse in street clothes signed three more years, suspended and pretending to play.

Hard to imagine Phil pitching a plan, after trading for an injured guard to sign an injured center then praising that point guard as a premier scorer and then emasculating our best player during a press conference who scores the ball at a higher rate.

Robin would have been a great asset to trade to a contending team, but again Phil loves just giving away players for no return.

Control the glass with 8 rebounds..Come on...He hit some key open shots which is good..Noah deal bites the big one tho...

Rolo is really good at boxing out for other players. Bulls have been destroying the Celts on the boards in this series and Rolo has definitely been controlling the paint. Bulls have a lot of guards who swoop down for rebounds like Rondo and Butler and Wade.


KP always rebounded much better playing alongside Rolo.

Insane..AAAhhhhhhh..I showed playoff stats to refute this where Aldridge numbers went up in the playoffs when Rolo sat...KP rebounds the same...

Actually there were articles on this. I don't know if the trend continued all season but mid season (when the articles were written) KP's rebounding was WAY better with Rolo.

KP number dipped in Feb when he got hurt...Went from 7 reb to 4.2..He ended 7.3 last year vs. 7.2 this year..Also when KP began last year he was flying all over the place with put backs..This year it wasn't as frequent..If you to credit Rolo with KP activity level, what can I say..

No, the articles were specifically looking at his rebounding rate when Rolo was on vs. off the court. Here's one article on it, but it focuses more on how much Lopez helped all teammates' rebounding not just KP.
http://www.sbnation.com/2016/2/17/11022090/robin-lopez-knicks-role-player-highlights-stats

GustavBahler
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4/19/2017  11:26 AM
Bonn1997 wrote:
holfresh wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
holfresh wrote:
crzymdups wrote:
holfresh wrote:
MS wrote:Amazing watching Lopez control the glass and provide scoring against the best team in the east, while listening to our smug GM talk about the players we want in this organization like Ron Baker, after trading a center that played 82 games and just goes about his business, doesn't need shots and is a great team guy.

This was another huge zero for Phil. We have a lingering corpse in street clothes signed three more years, suspended and pretending to play.

Hard to imagine Phil pitching a plan, after trading for an injured guard to sign an injured center then praising that point guard as a premier scorer and then emasculating our best player during a press conference who scores the ball at a higher rate.

Robin would have been a great asset to trade to a contending team, but again Phil loves just giving away players for no return.

Control the glass with 8 rebounds..Come on...He hit some key open shots which is good..Noah deal bites the big one tho...

Rolo is really good at boxing out for other players. Bulls have been destroying the Celts on the boards in this series and Rolo has definitely been controlling the paint. Bulls have a lot of guards who swoop down for rebounds like Rondo and Butler and Wade.


KP always rebounded much better playing alongside Rolo.

Insane..AAAhhhhhhh..I showed playoff stats to refute this where Aldridge numbers went up in the playoffs when Rolo sat...KP rebounds the same...

Actually there were articles on this. I don't know if the trend continued all season but mid season (when the articles were written) KP's rebounding was WAY better with Rolo.

KP number dipped in Feb when he got hurt...Went from 7 reb to 4.2..He ended 7.3 last year vs. 7.2 this year..Also when KP began last year he was flying all over the place with put backs..This year it wasn't as frequent..If you to credit Rolo with KP activity level, what can I say..

No, the articles were specifically looking at his rebounding rate when Rolo was on vs. off the court. Here's one article on it, but it focuses more on how much Lopez helped all teammates' rebounding not just KP.
http://www.sbnation.com/2016/2/17/11022090/robin-lopez-knicks-role-player-highlights-stats

Thanks for posting this. I posted this when he was first traded to NY. Shows that his production was not an anomaly. Lots of advanced stats....

https://www.numberfire.com/nba/news/3021/why-we-should-stop-underrating-robin-lopez?fs=true

fishmike
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4/19/2017  11:50 AM
Rolo is a stop gap player. He's got some goods and some warts. Last year he was very quiet when the Knicks were playing well in the first half (remember the daily Brigg's "Lopez sucks" threads ).

When Lopez starting putting up better numbers the Knicks were in the crapper. He's fantastic at boxing out and setting picks. I mean fantastic. He also lumbers. He got beat down court on a regular basis. His offense is slow, robotic and no dependable. He doesnt have great hands and he's a below average passer at best. Also if you look at Noah's early defensive #s he had a higher impact than Lopez. I think watching Noah totally dismantle Lopez last year probably planted a seed.

Right now Lopez looks great as he's healthy and Noah is a wreck. Noah is a hard worker and prideful. If there is something he can add he will, but obviously that swap is another Phil whiff.

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Gudris
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4/19/2017  12:18 PM
If somebody is good at one team it does not mean he will be same good on other team, and around.
Vmart
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4/19/2017  1:19 PM
Bonn1997 wrote:
Vmart wrote:
crzymdups wrote:
Nalod wrote:Imagine Robin on the knicks and how much better we were with him!!!!
Pair him with KP and Melo, and we'd be in the playoffs as the 8th seed up 2-0 on Celtics!!
How did that work?

Great point - we should trade a young healthy center for an older, injured center we can pay more!

Some people just don't understand how this team building stuff works!

There's no fooling you. If Lopez is here you don't find out if Hernangomez can play. There is a trade off there.


Then trade Rolo for a player who is actually worth having - someone of equal value.

Fair enough but when have the Knicks ever know equal value. Noah a former DPOY and Rose an ending contract that gives cap room who by the way is a former MVP. The knicks gave a bad contract to Noah but the Knicks were competitive until the wheels fell off. Noah was rebounding a stellar clip. There is a factor that Noah bring to the young Hernangomez and KP which is the element of the pass. In a way it kind of reminds me of Bill Walton on the Celtics. I like Noah I just wish he could stay healthy I also like the fact that he plays team ball and its rubbing off on the younger guys.

smackeddog
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4/19/2017  3:02 PM
MS wrote:Amazing watching Lopez control the glass and provide scoring against the best team in the east, while listening to our smug GM talk about the players we want in this organization like Ron Baker, after trading a center that played 82 games and just goes about his business, doesn't need shots and is a great team guy.

This was another huge zero for Phil. We have a lingering corpse in street clothes signed three more years, suspended and pretending to play.

Hard to imagine Phil pitching a plan, after trading for an injured guard to sign an injured center then praising that point guard as a premier scorer and then emasculating our best player during a press conference who scores the ball at a higher rate.

Robin would have been a great asset to trade to a contending team, but again Phil loves just giving away players for no return.

Why do people do this to themselves? Why did no one post about him. When he was having a below average regular season? Why do only their good games count?

Bonn1997
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4/19/2017  3:19 PM
smackeddog wrote:
MS wrote:Amazing watching Lopez control the glass and provide scoring against the best team in the east, while listening to our smug GM talk about the players we want in this organization like Ron Baker, after trading a center that played 82 games and just goes about his business, doesn't need shots and is a great team guy.

This was another huge zero for Phil. We have a lingering corpse in street clothes signed three more years, suspended and pretending to play.

Hard to imagine Phil pitching a plan, after trading for an injured guard to sign an injured center then praising that point guard as a premier scorer and then emasculating our best player during a press conference who scores the ball at a higher rate.

Robin would have been a great asset to trade to a contending team, but again Phil loves just giving away players for no return.

Why do people do this to themselves? Why did no one post about him. When he was having a below average regular season? Why do only their good games count?


Even at any point where he struggled in the regular season, he was still a much better buy for 3 remaining years, $41 mil than Noah at 4 years, 72 mil. I'd agree there's no reason to overreact to a couple of good or bad games, but I'd still gladly swap Noah and Lopez.
knicks1248
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4/19/2017  3:34 PM
Vmart wrote:
crzymdups wrote:
Nalod wrote:Imagine Robin on the knicks and how much better we were with him!!!!
Pair him with KP and Melo, and we'd be in the playoffs as the 8th seed up 2-0 on Celtics!!
How did that work?

Great point - we should trade a young healthy center for an older, injured center we can pay more!

Some people just don't understand how this team building stuff works!

There's no fooling you. If Lopez is here you don't find out if Hernangomez can play. There is a trade off there.

Thats not exactly true, because willy was taking KOQ minutes when Noah was somewhat healthy.

Did you hear Phil say Noah is still young..Really, is the dog yrs

ES
Bonn1997
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4/19/2017  4:18 PM    LAST EDITED: 4/19/2017  4:18 PM
knicks1248 wrote:
Vmart wrote:
crzymdups wrote:
Nalod wrote:Imagine Robin on the knicks and how much better we were with him!!!!
Pair him with KP and Melo, and we'd be in the playoffs as the 8th seed up 2-0 on Celtics!!
How did that work?

Great point - we should trade a young healthy center for an older, injured center we can pay more!

Some people just don't understand how this team building stuff works!

There's no fooling you. If Lopez is here you don't find out if Hernangomez can play. There is a trade off there.

Thats not exactly true, because willy was taking KOQ minutes when Noah was somewhat healthy.

Did you hear Phil say Noah is still young..Really, is the dog yrs

Yeah and Rolo only plays like 26 min a game. It's not the case that you'd never find out how good Willy is.

nyknickzingis
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4/19/2017  4:36 PM
Wait didn't Phil want RoLo so much he even wanted him as much as Monroe?
Didn't we sign him?
When trading him away Phil said it was like having your tooth pulled out

Of course Rose was a bust for us
But Grant has not developed and we needed a starting level PG to have a shot at the playoffs

I loved RoLo. With Willy and KP developing though I understand the risk we took. On paper having Rose, Willy, KP better than RoLo, Willy, KP.

The real killer is the Noah contract. Noah has to get back to himself.

MS
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4/19/2017  4:58 PM
It's more so the logic, Phil praising Rose for his ability to score in the paint and trashing Melo at every turn.

We are obviously doing what Phil always does; devalue and asset and then take back garbage in return.

It made more sense to just stop gap at the point guard position, then the idiocy of this move.

Lopez is and was a tough player. A team guy, a garbage man.

Who knows what Grant will be, but THJR made some strides in year three. Assets that we can package for picks or players are a necessity and it seems like we just keep repeating the same mistakes over and over again

nyknickzingis
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4/19/2017  5:08 PM
He praised Melo
Said he carries the scoring load
He said Rose does great at getting to paint that Rose wants to return

That's not praising Rose and trashing Melo
That's factual stuff

No mention there that they are building around Rose and trashing Melo

I did say this many times

KP as the only shot creator will suck
We need a guard that draws attention
Finding a better guard than Rose will be tough via FA

Let's see what happens with the draft and Melo trade then consider Rose as a free agent.

newyorknewyork
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4/19/2017  7:15 PM
KOQ had a better year then Roll minus recent playoff games.

KOQ has better per min production. Has better advanced stats in almost every category.

Rebounds at a higher rate. Generated more ast and blks per 36 or per 100 possesions. Shot at a higher %. Provided more win shates48 .151 to Rolos .091. Has a better OPM, DPM, VORP, ORTG, DRTG.

KOQ makes 4mil per
Rolo makes 13mil per

Giving up Roll wasnt devastating.

Robin Lopez

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