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What exaclty is your IDEA of a Rebuild
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nixluva
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4/19/2017  9:45 PM
CrushAlot wrote:
nixluva wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
nixluva wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
EnySpree wrote:I think we are doing a good job of establishing a culture. Phil wants team basketball. That's why he's pushing for system offense. He wants hard workers. Team players. It's not rocket science. It's also not a exact science.

Phil's mistakes are noted, but his positives aren't. We have a nice group players that fit the mold of hard working team players. Phil has Horny and he has his informant in Rambis... thet well sort out who's worth keeping. We have youth and we're adding to it... we're not going to sign a superstar. We are gonna have to draft or trade for one. We need to get lucky. We also probably will need to hit the jackpot on a trade somewhere down the line.

It's like a Rubix cube... at fittest it looks impossible, then all of a sudden everything opens up and you complete the puzzle. We just have to keep at it


The Knicks brought in ten new players this year. That is two thirds of the roster. Management wants to get rid of the longest tenured Knick and my guess is Sasha or KOQ isn't back. I don't know how you can establish a culture if you reset the roster every year and keep switching coaches and philosophies. Maybe this starting to happen. It hasn't happened yet under Phil.

MOST of the team is likely coming back. Also this is about the LONG TERM and not just next season. They will have some continuity next year but also an influx of LONG TERM pieces! That's the whole point of a rebuild. Younger core players that you can run with for many years!


So do we agree that there isn't and the team hasn't had continuity during Phil's first 3 yrs?

Sure! But why would you want continuity with players you don't want? You don't force things keeping players you don't want, just to say you have continuity.

Phil yr 1 cleans house and drafts KP and Willy. He tries in yr 2 to build up some value and he does and trades RoLo. Yr 3 he tries to cater to Melo and brings in some vets. However he at the same time brought in 5 rookies and kept his options open. This summer he gives up on the Melo Era and will likely bring back a good % of the roster.

you can't establish a culture if your roster is being turned over every year, you keep replacing coaches, and you keep switching systems. Hopefully the Knicks start to build a culture but nothing has been put in place for any length of time with Phil.

Perhaps I might clarify how I see this and how Phil is likely looking at this. I've said for a long time that once you draft a kid like KP who has franchise level talent you reset the clock. All that matters is from KP forward. The continuity is really about KP, Willy and who we draft this summer. The KP Era kids including UDFA's that stick like Baker are who we need to focus on in terms of continuity over the next five years.

AUTOADVERT
HofstraBBall
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4/19/2017  9:55 PM    LAST EDITED: 4/19/2017  9:59 PM
nixluva wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
nixluva wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
EnySpree wrote:I think we are doing a good job of establishing a culture. Phil wants team basketball. That's why he's pushing for system offense. He wants hard workers. Team players. It's not rocket science. It's also not a exact science.

Phil's mistakes are noted, but his positives aren't. We have a nice group players that fit the mold of hard working team players. Phil has Horny and he has his informant in Rambis... thet well sort out who's worth keeping. We have youth and we're adding to it... we're not going to sign a superstar. We are gonna have to draft or trade for one. We need to get lucky. We also probably will need to hit the jackpot on a trade somewhere down the line.

It's like a Rubix cube... at fittest it looks impossible, then all of a sudden everything opens up and you complete the puzzle. We just have to keep at it


The Knicks brought in ten new players this year. That is two thirds of the roster. Management wants to get rid of the longest tenured Knick and my guess is Sasha or KOQ isn't back. I don't know how you can establish a culture if you reset the roster every year and keep switching coaches and philosophies. Maybe this starting to happen. It hasn't happened yet under Phil.

MOST of the team is likely coming back. Also this is about the LONG TERM and not just next season. They will have some continuity next year but also an influx of LONG TERM pieces! That's the whole point of a rebuild. Younger core players that you can run with for many years!


So do we agree that there isn't and the team hasn't had continuity during Phil's first 3 yrs?

Sure! But why would you want continuity with players you don't want? You don't force things keeping players you don't want, just to say you have continuity.

Phil yr 1 cleans house and drafts KP and Willy. He tries in yr 2 to build up some value and he does and trades RoLo. Yr 3 he tries to cater to Melo and brings in some vets. However he at the same time brought in 5 rookies and kept his options open. This summer he gives up on the Melo Era and will likely bring back a good % of the roster.

So he picks them one year and doesn't want them the next year? What does that say about his initial judgement to add them to the roster? You make it sound as though he is forced to sign these players. Lets look at Rolo. He fit the Triangle, somewhat young, did the intangibles and enabled Melo to have one of his best assist seasons in quite some time. But you trade him? Then you sign a injury prone, aging Noah to 4 years? How bout rebuild? You draft Grant and trade him after one year? Did he not see him play prior to the draft? Can we really say that Grant all of sudden changed his game to something so different from his college days? So a rebuild gives your rookies just one year to develop? Rose was for Melo? How exactly would a high usage player competing for touches help Melo? Nix man, I am tired of the Phil argument. maybe. But you cant obsolve the guy in charge of a three year 165 loss record.

Melo Haters = Lin lovers who are mad Houston paid so much for his 15 Minutes,
Uptown
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4/19/2017  10:00 PM
CrushAlot wrote:
EnySpree wrote:I think we are doing a good job of establishing a culture. Phil wants team basketball. That's why he's pushing for system offense. He wants hard workers. Team players. It's not rocket science. It's also not a exact science.

Phil's mistakes are noted, but his positives aren't. We have a nice group players that fit the mold of hard working team players. Phil has Horny and he has his informant in Rambis... thet well sort out who's worth keeping. We have youth and we're adding to it... we're not going to sign a superstar. We are gonna have to draft or trade for one. We need to get lucky. We also probably will need to hit the jackpot on a trade somewhere down the line.

It's like a Rubix cube... at fittest it looks impossible, then all of a sudden everything opens up and you complete the puzzle. We just have to keep at it


The Knicks brought in ten new players this year. That is two thirds of the roster. Management wants to get rid of the longest tenured Knick and my guess is Sasha or KOQ isn't back. I don't know how you can establish a culture if you reset the roster every year and keep switching coaches and philosophies. Maybe this starting to happen. It hasn't happened yet under Phil.

+1,000

Uptown
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4/19/2017  10:03 PM
nixluva wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
nixluva wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
nixluva wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
EnySpree wrote:I think we are doing a good job of establishing a culture. Phil wants team basketball. That's why he's pushing for system offense. He wants hard workers. Team players. It's not rocket science. It's also not a exact science.

Phil's mistakes are noted, but his positives aren't. We have a nice group players that fit the mold of hard working team players. Phil has Horny and he has his informant in Rambis... thet well sort out who's worth keeping. We have youth and we're adding to it... we're not going to sign a superstar. We are gonna have to draft or trade for one. We need to get lucky. We also probably will need to hit the jackpot on a trade somewhere down the line.

It's like a Rubix cube... at fittest it looks impossible, then all of a sudden everything opens up and you complete the puzzle. We just have to keep at it


The Knicks brought in ten new players this year. That is two thirds of the roster. Management wants to get rid of the longest tenured Knick and my guess is Sasha or KOQ isn't back. I don't know how you can establish a culture if you reset the roster every year and keep switching coaches and philosophies. Maybe this starting to happen. It hasn't happened yet under Phil.

MOST of the team is likely coming back. Also this is about the LONG TERM and not just next season. They will have some continuity next year but also an influx of LONG TERM pieces! That's the whole point of a rebuild. Younger core players that you can run with for many years!


So do we agree that there isn't and the team hasn't had continuity during Phil's first 3 yrs?

Sure! But why would you want continuity with players you don't want? You don't force things keeping players you don't want, just to say you have continuity.

Phil yr 1 cleans house and drafts KP and Willy. He tries in yr 2 to build up some value and he does and trades RoLo. Yr 3 he tries to cater to Melo and brings in some vets. However he at the same time brought in 5 rookies and kept his options open. This summer he gives up on the Melo Era and will likely bring back a good % of the roster.

you can't establish a culture if your roster is being turned over every year, you keep replacing coaches, and you keep switching systems. Hopefully the Knicks start to build a culture but nothing has been put in place for any length of time with Phil.

Perhaps I might clarify how I see this and how Phil is likely looking at this. I've said for a long time that once you draft a kid like KP who has franchise level talent you reset the clock. All that matters is from KP forward. The continuity is really about KP, Willy and who we draft this summer. The KP Era kids including UDFA's that stick like Baker are who we need to focus on in terms of continuity over the next five years.

The same KP that says this franchise is a mess from top to bottom?

Uptown
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4/19/2017  10:04 PM
nixluva wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
nixluva wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
EnySpree wrote:I think we are doing a good job of establishing a culture. Phil wants team basketball. That's why he's pushing for system offense. He wants hard workers. Team players. It's not rocket science. It's also not a exact science.

Phil's mistakes are noted, but his positives aren't. We have a nice group players that fit the mold of hard working team players. Phil has Horny and he has his informant in Rambis... thet well sort out who's worth keeping. We have youth and we're adding to it... we're not going to sign a superstar. We are gonna have to draft or trade for one. We need to get lucky. We also probably will need to hit the jackpot on a trade somewhere down the line.

It's like a Rubix cube... at fittest it looks impossible, then all of a sudden everything opens up and you complete the puzzle. We just have to keep at it


The Knicks brought in ten new players this year. That is two thirds of the roster. Management wants to get rid of the longest tenured Knick and my guess is Sasha or KOQ isn't back. I don't know how you can establish a culture if you reset the roster every year and keep switching coaches and philosophies. Maybe this starting to happen. It hasn't happened yet under Phil.

MOST of the team is likely coming back. Also this is about the LONG TERM and not just next season. They will have some continuity next year but also an influx of LONG TERM pieces! That's the whole point of a rebuild. Younger core players that you can run with for many years!


So do we agree that there isn't and the team hasn't had continuity during Phil's first 3 yrs?

Sure! But why would you want continuity with players you don't want? You don't force things keeping players you don't want, just to say you have continuity.

Phil yr 1 cleans house and drafts KP and Willy. He tries in yr 2 to build up some value and he does and trades RoLo. Yr 3 he tries to cater to Melo and brings in some vets. However he at the same time brought in 5 rookies and kept his options open. This summer he gives up on the Melo Era and will likely bring back a good % of the roster.

So, basically, this summer is phil's plan D?

GustavBahler
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4/19/2017  10:09 PM    LAST EDITED: 4/19/2017  10:27 PM
This is a good question. People clearly have differing opinions on the subject so the objections to the existence of this thread comes off as trolling.

There are different ways of rebuilding, different speeds. You can go with an instant "super friends" rebuild where you have a radically improved core, ready to legitimately challenge for a ring. As opposed to a quick fix which is done with the knowledge that the team should be more competitive, but no one rationally expects the team to reach the finals, let alone win a championship.

My ideal way of rebuilding is to find a potential star, build the team around his game, his strength's and weaknesses. Surround him with quality role players, by trade or draft who are more than just band aids. You build a team that plays well together with a potential rising star and you go out and surprise some teams. You get FAs to notice that with another star or two, this team could go places.

What you dont do is gut the team every season and start again almost from scratch. Im guessing this is the kind of rebuilding KP wants no part of. If this team gradually gets better, their record keeps improving, learning from their mistakes. Even if the rise isnt meteoric, I believe KP would see a team that is headed in the right direction, with a clear path and would be on board.

Right now it feels like its all to feed the Triangle, like its some unholy three sided beast from the great beyond, meant to capture our souls. Sorry, got carried away there lol.

nixluva
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4/19/2017  10:11 PM
HofstraBBall wrote:
nixluva wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
nixluva wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
EnySpree wrote:I think we are doing a good job of establishing a culture. Phil wants team basketball. That's why he's pushing for system offense. He wants hard workers. Team players. It's not rocket science. It's also not a exact science.

Phil's mistakes are noted, but his positives aren't. We have a nice group players that fit the mold of hard working team players. Phil has Horny and he has his informant in Rambis... thet well sort out who's worth keeping. We have youth and we're adding to it... we're not going to sign a superstar. We are gonna have to draft or trade for one. We need to get lucky. We also probably will need to hit the jackpot on a trade somewhere down the line.

It's like a Rubix cube... at fittest it looks impossible, then all of a sudden everything opens up and you complete the puzzle. We just have to keep at it


The Knicks brought in ten new players this year. That is two thirds of the roster. Management wants to get rid of the longest tenured Knick and my guess is Sasha or KOQ isn't back. I don't know how you can establish a culture if you reset the roster every year and keep switching coaches and philosophies. Maybe this starting to happen. It hasn't happened yet under Phil.

MOST of the team is likely coming back. Also this is about the LONG TERM and not just next season. They will have some continuity next year but also an influx of LONG TERM pieces! That's the whole point of a rebuild. Younger core players that you can run with for many years!


So do we agree that there isn't and the team hasn't had continuity during Phil's first 3 yrs?

Sure! But why would you want continuity with players you don't want? You don't force things keeping players you don't want, just to say you have continuity.

Phil yr 1 cleans house and drafts KP and Willy. He tries in yr 2 to build up some value and he does and trades RoLo. Yr 3 he tries to cater to Melo and brings in some vets. However he at the same time brought in 5 rookies and kept his options open. This summer he gives up on the Melo Era and will likely bring back a good % of the roster.

So he picks them one year and doesn't want them the next year? What does that say about his initial judgement to add them to the roster? You make it sound as though he is forced to sign these players. Lets look at Rolo. He fit the Triangle, somewhat young, did the intangibles and enabled Melo to have one of his best assist seasons in quite some time. But you trade him? Then you sign a injury prone, aging Noah to 4 years? How bout rebuild? You draft Grant and trade him after one year? Did he not see him play prior to the draft? Can we really say that Grant all of sudden changed his game to something so different from his college days? So a rebuild gives your rookies just one year to develop? Rose was for Melo? How exactly would a high usage player competing for touches help Melo? Nix man, I am tired of the Phil argument. maybe. But you cant obsolve the guy in charge of a three year 165 loss record.

The W/L record is bad but it's only one aspect of what Phil has been doing. He never went ALL IN on winning and his clear intent was to try to win but not to sacrifice the future. Well that future is now!!! Phil is ready to move on from Melo and the youth movement is going to take precedence.

It's not about absolving Phil of anything. There's a clear shift going on. This is obviously a rebuild now. Not a prototypical rebuild but still a rebuild.

nixluva
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4/19/2017  10:13 PM
Uptown wrote:
nixluva wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
nixluva wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
nixluva wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
EnySpree wrote:I think we are doing a good job of establishing a culture. Phil wants team basketball. That's why he's pushing for system offense. He wants hard workers. Team players. It's not rocket science. It's also not a exact science.

Phil's mistakes are noted, but his positives aren't. We have a nice group players that fit the mold of hard working team players. Phil has Horny and he has his informant in Rambis... thet well sort out who's worth keeping. We have youth and we're adding to it... we're not going to sign a superstar. We are gonna have to draft or trade for one. We need to get lucky. We also probably will need to hit the jackpot on a trade somewhere down the line.

It's like a Rubix cube... at fittest it looks impossible, then all of a sudden everything opens up and you complete the puzzle. We just have to keep at it


The Knicks brought in ten new players this year. That is two thirds of the roster. Management wants to get rid of the longest tenured Knick and my guess is Sasha or KOQ isn't back. I don't know how you can establish a culture if you reset the roster every year and keep switching coaches and philosophies. Maybe this starting to happen. It hasn't happened yet under Phil.

MOST of the team is likely coming back. Also this is about the LONG TERM and not just next season. They will have some continuity next year but also an influx of LONG TERM pieces! That's the whole point of a rebuild. Younger core players that you can run with for many years!


So do we agree that there isn't and the team hasn't had continuity during Phil's first 3 yrs?

Sure! But why would you want continuity with players you don't want? You don't force things keeping players you don't want, just to say you have continuity.

Phil yr 1 cleans house and drafts KP and Willy. He tries in yr 2 to build up some value and he does and trades RoLo. Yr 3 he tries to cater to Melo and brings in some vets. However he at the same time brought in 5 rookies and kept his options open. This summer he gives up on the Melo Era and will likely bring back a good % of the roster.

you can't establish a culture if your roster is being turned over every year, you keep replacing coaches, and you keep switching systems. Hopefully the Knicks start to build a culture but nothing has been put in place for any length of time with Phil.

Perhaps I might clarify how I see this and how Phil is likely looking at this. I've said for a long time that once you draft a kid like KP who has franchise level talent you reset the clock. All that matters is from KP forward. The continuity is really about KP, Willy and who we draft this summer. The KP Era kids including UDFA's that stick like Baker are who we need to focus on in terms of continuity over the next five years.

The same KP that says this franchise is a mess from top to bottom?


That's NOT what he meant by what he said. Read the context of what he was saying and it was clear he wasn't talking about the entire franchise in that comment!
HofstraBBall
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4/19/2017  10:20 PM
nixluva wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
nixluva wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
nixluva wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
EnySpree wrote:I think we are doing a good job of establishing a culture. Phil wants team basketball. That's why he's pushing for system offense. He wants hard workers. Team players. It's not rocket science. It's also not a exact science.

Phil's mistakes are noted, but his positives aren't. We have a nice group players that fit the mold of hard working team players. Phil has Horny and he has his informant in Rambis... thet well sort out who's worth keeping. We have youth and we're adding to it... we're not going to sign a superstar. We are gonna have to draft or trade for one. We need to get lucky. We also probably will need to hit the jackpot on a trade somewhere down the line.

It's like a Rubix cube... at fittest it looks impossible, then all of a sudden everything opens up and you complete the puzzle. We just have to keep at it


The Knicks brought in ten new players this year. That is two thirds of the roster. Management wants to get rid of the longest tenured Knick and my guess is Sasha or KOQ isn't back. I don't know how you can establish a culture if you reset the roster every year and keep switching coaches and philosophies. Maybe this starting to happen. It hasn't happened yet under Phil.

MOST of the team is likely coming back. Also this is about the LONG TERM and not just next season. They will have some continuity next year but also an influx of LONG TERM pieces! That's the whole point of a rebuild. Younger core players that you can run with for many years!


So do we agree that there isn't and the team hasn't had continuity during Phil's first 3 yrs?

Sure! But why would you want continuity with players you don't want? You don't force things keeping players you don't want, just to say you have continuity.

Phil yr 1 cleans house and drafts KP and Willy. He tries in yr 2 to build up some value and he does and trades RoLo. Yr 3 he tries to cater to Melo and brings in some vets. However he at the same time brought in 5 rookies and kept his options open. This summer he gives up on the Melo Era and will likely bring back a good % of the roster.

So he picks them one year and doesn't want them the next year? What does that say about his initial judgement to add them to the roster? You make it sound as though he is forced to sign these players. Lets look at Rolo. He fit the Triangle, somewhat young, did the intangibles and enabled Melo to have one of his best assist seasons in quite some time. But you trade him? Then you sign a injury prone, aging Noah to 4 years? How bout rebuild? You draft Grant and trade him after one year? Did he not see him play prior to the draft? Can we really say that Grant all of sudden changed his game to something so different from his college days? So a rebuild gives your rookies just one year to develop? Rose was for Melo? How exactly would a high usage player competing for touches help Melo? Nix man, I am tired of the Phil argument. maybe. But you cant obsolve the guy in charge of a three year 165 loss record.

The W/L record is bad but it's only one aspect of what Phil has been doing. He never went ALL IN on winning and his clear intent was to try to win but not to sacrifice the future. Well that future is now!!! Phil is ready to move on from Melo and the youth movement is going to take precedence.

It's not about absolving Phil of anything. There's a clear shift going on. This is obviously a rebuild now. Not a prototypical rebuild but still a rebuild.

So he wasted all his time on purpose when evaluating all the new additions? Because his goal was to lose 165? "He never went All in on winning? What does that even mean? Presidents of operations should shy away from trying to win?

A True rebuild would be to trade Melo, trade Lee, Trade KO. waive Noah, not resign Rose and get a front office that will be around for at least 10 years. Im in.

Melo Haters = Lin lovers who are mad Houston paid so much for his 15 Minutes,
nixluva
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4/19/2017  10:35 PM
HofstraBBall wrote:
nixluva wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
nixluva wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
nixluva wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
EnySpree wrote:I think we are doing a good job of establishing a culture. Phil wants team basketball. That's why he's pushing for system offense. He wants hard workers. Team players. It's not rocket science. It's also not a exact science.

Phil's mistakes are noted, but his positives aren't. We have a nice group players that fit the mold of hard working team players. Phil has Horny and he has his informant in Rambis... thet well sort out who's worth keeping. We have youth and we're adding to it... we're not going to sign a superstar. We are gonna have to draft or trade for one. We need to get lucky. We also probably will need to hit the jackpot on a trade somewhere down the line.

It's like a Rubix cube... at fittest it looks impossible, then all of a sudden everything opens up and you complete the puzzle. We just have to keep at it


The Knicks brought in ten new players this year. That is two thirds of the roster. Management wants to get rid of the longest tenured Knick and my guess is Sasha or KOQ isn't back. I don't know how you can establish a culture if you reset the roster every year and keep switching coaches and philosophies. Maybe this starting to happen. It hasn't happened yet under Phil.

MOST of the team is likely coming back. Also this is about the LONG TERM and not just next season. They will have some continuity next year but also an influx of LONG TERM pieces! That's the whole point of a rebuild. Younger core players that you can run with for many years!


So do we agree that there isn't and the team hasn't had continuity during Phil's first 3 yrs?

Sure! But why would you want continuity with players you don't want? You don't force things keeping players you don't want, just to say you have continuity.

Phil yr 1 cleans house and drafts KP and Willy. He tries in yr 2 to build up some value and he does and trades RoLo. Yr 3 he tries to cater to Melo and brings in some vets. However he at the same time brought in 5 rookies and kept his options open. This summer he gives up on the Melo Era and will likely bring back a good % of the roster.

So he picks them one year and doesn't want them the next year? What does that say about his initial judgement to add them to the roster? You make it sound as though he is forced to sign these players. Lets look at Rolo. He fit the Triangle, somewhat young, did the intangibles and enabled Melo to have one of his best assist seasons in quite some time. But you trade him? Then you sign a injury prone, aging Noah to 4 years? How bout rebuild? You draft Grant and trade him after one year? Did he not see him play prior to the draft? Can we really say that Grant all of sudden changed his game to something so different from his college days? So a rebuild gives your rookies just one year to develop? Rose was for Melo? How exactly would a high usage player competing for touches help Melo? Nix man, I am tired of the Phil argument. maybe. But you cant obsolve the guy in charge of a three year 165 loss record.

The W/L record is bad but it's only one aspect of what Phil has been doing. He never went ALL IN on winning and his clear intent was to try to win but not to sacrifice the future. Well that future is now!!! Phil is ready to move on from Melo and the youth movement is going to take precedence.

It's not about absolving Phil of anything. There's a clear shift going on. This is obviously a rebuild now. Not a prototypical rebuild but still a rebuild.

So he wasted all his time on purpose when evaluating all the new additions? Because his goal was to lose 165? "He never went All in on winning? What does that even mean? Presidents of operations should shy away from trying to win?

A True rebuild would be to trade Melo, trade Lee, Trade KO. waive Noah, not resign Rose and get a front office that will be around for at least 10 years. Im in.

Phil didn't go ALL IN on Win Now by selling off on youth. He only took calculated risks that still left his options open. This is not about the entire time he's been here. The clock reset after drafting KP. Now he can really try to put more Frontline talent around KP!!!

HofstraBBall
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4/19/2017  10:47 PM    LAST EDITED: 4/19/2017  10:47 PM
nixluva wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
nixluva wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
nixluva wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
nixluva wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
EnySpree wrote:I think we are doing a good job of establishing a culture. Phil wants team basketball. That's why he's pushing for system offense. He wants hard workers. Team players. It's not rocket science. It's also not a exact science.

Phil's mistakes are noted, but his positives aren't. We have a nice group players that fit the mold of hard working team players. Phil has Horny and he has his informant in Rambis... thet well sort out who's worth keeping. We have youth and we're adding to it... we're not going to sign a superstar. We are gonna have to draft or trade for one. We need to get lucky. We also probably will need to hit the jackpot on a trade somewhere down the line.

It's like a Rubix cube... at fittest it looks impossible, then all of a sudden everything opens up and you complete the puzzle. We just have to keep at it


The Knicks brought in ten new players this year. That is two thirds of the roster. Management wants to get rid of the longest tenured Knick and my guess is Sasha or KOQ isn't back. I don't know how you can establish a culture if you reset the roster every year and keep switching coaches and philosophies. Maybe this starting to happen. It hasn't happened yet under Phil.

MOST of the team is likely coming back. Also this is about the LONG TERM and not just next season. They will have some continuity next year but also an influx of LONG TERM pieces! That's the whole point of a rebuild. Younger core players that you can run with for many years!


So do we agree that there isn't and the team hasn't had continuity during Phil's first 3 yrs?

Sure! But why would you want continuity with players you don't want? You don't force things keeping players you don't want, just to say you have continuity.

Phil yr 1 cleans house and drafts KP and Willy. He tries in yr 2 to build up some value and he does and trades RoLo. Yr 3 he tries to cater to Melo and brings in some vets. However he at the same time brought in 5 rookies and kept his options open. This summer he gives up on the Melo Era and will likely bring back a good % of the roster.

So he picks them one year and doesn't want them the next year? What does that say about his initial judgement to add them to the roster? You make it sound as though he is forced to sign these players. Lets look at Rolo. He fit the Triangle, somewhat young, did the intangibles and enabled Melo to have one of his best assist seasons in quite some time. But you trade him? Then you sign a injury prone, aging Noah to 4 years? How bout rebuild? You draft Grant and trade him after one year? Did he not see him play prior to the draft? Can we really say that Grant all of sudden changed his game to something so different from his college days? So a rebuild gives your rookies just one year to develop? Rose was for Melo? How exactly would a high usage player competing for touches help Melo? Nix man, I am tired of the Phil argument. maybe. But you cant obsolve the guy in charge of a three year 165 loss record.

The W/L record is bad but it's only one aspect of what Phil has been doing. He never went ALL IN on winning and his clear intent was to try to win but not to sacrifice the future. Well that future is now!!! Phil is ready to move on from Melo and the youth movement is going to take precedence.

It's not about absolving Phil of anything. There's a clear shift going on. This is obviously a rebuild now. Not a prototypical rebuild but still a rebuild.

So he wasted all his time on purpose when evaluating all the new additions? Because his goal was to lose 165? "He never went All in on winning? What does that even mean? Presidents of operations should shy away from trying to win?

A True rebuild would be to trade Melo, trade Lee, Trade KO. waive Noah, not resign Rose and get a front office that will be around for at least 10 years. Im in.

Phil didn't go ALL IN on Win Now by selling off on youth. He only took calculated risks that still left his options open. This is not about the entire time he's been here. The clock reset after drafting KP. Now he can really try to put more Frontline talent around KP!!!

Okay. Fair enough. So his only mistakes were Signing Noah, trading former draft picks, continuing to make us a joke and 165 losses. Agreed. I hope your right and he has a good summer.

Melo Haters = Lin lovers who are mad Houston paid so much for his 15 Minutes,
EnySpree
Posts: 43256
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4/19/2017  10:56 PM
CrushAlot wrote:
nixluva wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
nixluva wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
EnySpree wrote:I think we are doing a good job of establishing a culture. Phil wants team basketball. That's why he's pushing for system offense. He wants hard workers. Team players. It's not rocket science. It's also not a exact science.

Phil's mistakes are noted, but his positives aren't. We have a nice group players that fit the mold of hard working team players. Phil has Horny and he has his informant in Rambis... thet well sort out who's worth keeping. We have youth and we're adding to it... we're not going to sign a superstar. We are gonna have to draft or trade for one. We need to get lucky. We also probably will need to hit the jackpot on a trade somewhere down the line.

It's like a Rubix cube... at fittest it looks impossible, then all of a sudden everything opens up and you complete the puzzle. We just have to keep at it


The Knicks brought in ten new players this year. That is two thirds of the roster. Management wants to get rid of the longest tenured Knick and my guess is Sasha or KOQ isn't back. I don't know how you can establish a culture if you reset the roster every year and keep switching coaches and philosophies. Maybe this starting to happen. It hasn't happened yet under Phil.

MOST of the team is likely coming back. Also this is about the LONG TERM and not just next season. They will have some continuity next year but also an influx of LONG TERM pieces! That's the whole point of a rebuild. Younger core players that you can run with for many years!


So do we agree that there isn't and the team hasn't had continuity during Phil's first 3 yrs?

Sure! But why would you want continuity with players you don't want? You don't force things keeping players you don't want, just to say you have continuity.

Phil yr 1 cleans house and drafts KP and Willy. He tries in yr 2 to build up some value and he does and trades RoLo. Yr 3 he tries to cater to Melo and brings in some vets. However he at the same time brought in 5 rookies and kept his options open. This summer he gives up on the Melo Era and will likely bring back a good % of the roster.

you can't establish a culture if your roster is being turned over every year, you keep replacing coaches, and you keep switching systems. Hopefully the Knicks start to build a culture but nothing has been put in place for any length of time with Phil.

You are just talking and not listening. We're running the triangle but we keep switching systems? But i though everyone wanted to switch systems away from the triangle🤔.

Keep changing coaches? Fisher turned out to be a cancerous piece of ****. Rambis was just an interim. Hoenacek got fired? Who's the coach going to be? Did i miss something?

Guys are resistant to change. That would be Melo and Rose... Jennings said guys weren't playing for each other. That's a real problem, so those players will not be back next year. Isn't that how you "rebuild"? How do you rebuild if you stay the same and never improve? We need better defenders right? We need a better point guard right?

Oy vey...

You know why I'm here....
WaltLongmire
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4/20/2017  12:15 AM
Have pointed this out a few times... Phil could not do a true "strip it down" rebuild because of what past folks in his position had left him.

You can go back on your own to look at the 2014 and 2016 drafts to see what we might have ended with if Phil had all of our picks we've given away over the years... 1st and 2nd rounds.

I'm not sure he would have signed Melo if he had a full complement of picks.

Phil misused Chandler as a trade asset- maybe we could have traded him to the Cavs for the 2 #1s they gave Denver for Mosgov.

If he really didn't want JR, he should have traded him immediately- his contract had only a year left and it was only about $5M. It might have helped Hardaway, who could have emerged as more of a leader without Melo and Smith around. Maybe Shumpert even fits in a little better.

Water under the bridge, obviously, but for me the biggest issues for Phil was that he wanted the game played a certain way, was saddled with a star he probably didn't want, and was missing the draft picks which he would have benefited from if he had jettisoned Melo, Smith, and Chandler.

EnySpree: Can we agree to agree not to mention Phil Jackson and triangle for the rest of our lives?
CrushAlot
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4/20/2017  12:17 AM
EnySpree wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
nixluva wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
nixluva wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
EnySpree wrote:I think we are doing a good job of establishing a culture. Phil wants team basketball. That's why he's pushing for system offense. He wants hard workers. Team players. It's not rocket science. It's also not a exact science.

Phil's mistakes are noted, but his positives aren't. We have a nice group players that fit the mold of hard working team players. Phil has Horny and he has his informant in Rambis... thet well sort out who's worth keeping. We have youth and we're adding to it... we're not going to sign a superstar. We are gonna have to draft or trade for one. We need to get lucky. We also probably will need to hit the jackpot on a trade somewhere down the line.

It's like a Rubix cube... at fittest it looks impossible, then all of a sudden everything opens up and you complete the puzzle. We just have to keep at it


The Knicks brought in ten new players this year. That is two thirds of the roster. Management wants to get rid of the longest tenured Knick and my guess is Sasha or KOQ isn't back. I don't know how you can establish a culture if you reset the roster every year and keep switching coaches and philosophies. Maybe this starting to happen. It hasn't happened yet under Phil.

MOST of the team is likely coming back. Also this is about the LONG TERM and not just next season. They will have some continuity next year but also an influx of LONG TERM pieces! That's the whole point of a rebuild. Younger core players that you can run with for many years!


So do we agree that there isn't and the team hasn't had continuity during Phil's first 3 yrs?

Sure! But why would you want continuity with players you don't want? You don't force things keeping players you don't want, just to say you have continuity.

Phil yr 1 cleans house and drafts KP and Willy. He tries in yr 2 to build up some value and he does and trades RoLo. Yr 3 he tries to cater to Melo and brings in some vets. However he at the same time brought in 5 rookies and kept his options open. This summer he gives up on the Melo Era and will likely bring back a good % of the roster.

you can't establish a culture if your roster is being turned over every year, you keep replacing coaches, and you keep switching systems. Hopefully the Knicks start to build a culture but nothing has been put in place for any length of time with Phil.

You are just talking and not listening. We're running the triangle but we keep switching systems? But i though everyone wanted to switch systems away from the triangle🤔.

Keep changing coaches? Fisher turned out to be a cancerous piece of ****. Rambis was just an interim. Hoenacek got fired? Who's the coach going to be? Did i miss something?

Guys are resistant to change. That would be Melo and Rose... Jennings said guys weren't playing for each other. That's a real problem, so those players will not be back next year. Isn't that how you "rebuild"? How do you rebuild if you stay the same and never improve? We need better defenders right? We need a better point guard right?

Oy vey...

Please explain how the culture was built over the past three years. Also, the triangle was brought back in February. What if Rose is resigned to be the point guard?
I've seen scant proof that a majestic aura trumps a sound plan, but maybe that's just because I wasn't looking at Phil Jackson... Seth Rosenthal 2014
fwk00
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4/20/2017  12:48 AM
EnySpree wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
nixluva wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
nixluva wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
EnySpree wrote:I think we are doing a good job of establishing a culture. Phil wants team basketball. That's why he's pushing for system offense. He wants hard workers. Team players. It's not rocket science. It's also not a exact science.

Phil's mistakes are noted, but his positives aren't. We have a nice group players that fit the mold of hard working team players. Phil has Horny and he has his informant in Rambis... thet well sort out who's worth keeping. We have youth and we're adding to it... we're not going to sign a superstar. We are gonna have to draft or trade for one. We need to get lucky. We also probably will need to hit the jackpot on a trade somewhere down the line.

It's like a Rubix cube... at fittest it looks impossible, then all of a sudden everything opens up and you complete the puzzle. We just have to keep at it


The Knicks brought in ten new players this year. That is two thirds of the roster. Management wants to get rid of the longest tenured Knick and my guess is Sasha or KOQ isn't back. I don't know how you can establish a culture if you reset the roster every year and keep switching coaches and philosophies. Maybe this starting to happen. It hasn't happened yet under Phil.

MOST of the team is likely coming back. Also this is about the LONG TERM and not just next season. They will have some continuity next year but also an influx of LONG TERM pieces! That's the whole point of a rebuild. Younger core players that you can run with for many years!


So do we agree that there isn't and the team hasn't had continuity during Phil's first 3 yrs?

Sure! But why would you want continuity with players you don't want? You don't force things keeping players you don't want, just to say you have continuity.

Phil yr 1 cleans house and drafts KP and Willy. He tries in yr 2 to build up some value and he does and trades RoLo. Yr 3 he tries to cater to Melo and brings in some vets. However he at the same time brought in 5 rookies and kept his options open. This summer he gives up on the Melo Era and will likely bring back a good % of the roster.

you can't establish a culture if your roster is being turned over every year, you keep replacing coaches, and you keep switching systems. Hopefully the Knicks start to build a culture but nothing has been put in place for any length of time with Phil.

You are just talking and not listening. We're running the triangle but we keep switching systems? But i though everyone wanted to switch systems away from the triangle🤔.

Keep changing coaches? Fisher turned out to be a cancerous piece of ****. Rambis was just an interim. Hoenacek got fired? Who's the coach going to be? Did i miss something?

Guys are resistant to change. That would be Melo and Rose... Jennings said guys weren't playing for each other. That's a real problem, so those players will not be back next year. Isn't that how you "rebuild"? How do you rebuild if you stay the same and never improve? We need better defenders right? We need a better point guard right?

Oy vey...

I must admit that I'm getting nauseous from the circular arguments these Phil critics are making as well.

The triangle is simply a label for team-oriented, non-stagnant basketball. That's it. That's all Phil asks for - play intelligent basketball. Why this label has become some kind of cross to bear is absurd. What do the Spurs call their system? Or Golden State? Its the same sh@t. Horny isn't constrained by it, he's liberated to improvise around it just like the Spurs and GSW do.

So what's being switched? When? From day one Jax expressed that the team style of play would be [more or less] this kind of basketball. They teach it in Westchester as well. So what's getting switched?

And I agree. Why would Jax put Fisher through the kind of media abuse he would have taken had Fisher stayed?

So we have Hornacek. What's the problem? sounds like Phil, Hornacek, the coaching staff, and anyone would can read the stat lines agree defense was a problem. What's confusing here? Is it sensible to further break down that stat to see who was the worst defender? BINGO. Time to change that. Oh, wait. They don't want to change. Melo meet door. Melo meet other side of door. Is *that* confusing?

And yes, continuous improvement is how all organizations improve the quality of the product. Is that confusing?

I just don't get the criticism at all. And what is worse is that aside from the criticism there is no likely alternative vision being presented as an alternative except the grass is greener if we go back to square one yet again. We just left there - can't we get down the road a bit further?

fwk00
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4/20/2017  12:55 AM
WaltLongmire wrote:Have pointed this out a few times... Phil could not do a true "strip it down" rebuild because of what past folks in his position had left him.

You can go back on your own to look at the 2014 and 2016 drafts to see what we might have ended with if Phil had all of our picks we've given away over the years... 1st and 2nd rounds.

I'm not sure he would have signed Melo if he had a full complement of picks.

Phil misused Chandler as a trade asset- maybe we could have traded him to the Cavs for the 2 #1s they gave Denver for Mosgov.

If he really didn't want JR, he should have traded him immediately- his contract had only a year left and it was only about $5M. It might have helped Hardaway, who could have emerged as more of a leader without Melo and Smith around. Maybe Shumpert even fits in a little better.

Water under the bridge, obviously, but for me the biggest issues for Phil was that he wanted the game played a certain way, was saddled with a star he probably didn't want, and was missing the draft picks which he would have benefited from if he had jettisoned Melo, Smith, and Chandler.

Walt, you and a few others make perfect sense. I just scratch my head when I see the same belligerent criticisms being rehashed in every imaginable and unimaginable combination of ignorance.

Phil has made controversial moves. BFD. Who's to say that everyone else's theories wouldn't have made it all worse? Magical thinking on the part of these critics has them convinced that trading Chandler, Felton, JR, and Shump should have yielded enough talent to be contending for a ring by now.

knicks1248
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4/20/2017  7:11 AM    LAST EDITED: 4/20/2017  7:25 AM
nixluva wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
nixluva wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
nixluva wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
EnySpree wrote:I think we are doing a good job of establishing a culture. Phil wants team basketball. That's why he's pushing for system offense. He wants hard workers. Team players. It's not rocket science. It's also not a exact science.

Phil's mistakes are noted, but his positives aren't. We have a nice group players that fit the mold of hard working team players. Phil has Horny and he has his informant in Rambis... thet well sort out who's worth keeping. We have youth and we're adding to it... we're not going to sign a superstar. We are gonna have to draft or trade for one. We need to get lucky. We also probably will need to hit the jackpot on a trade somewhere down the line.

It's like a Rubix cube... at fittest it looks impossible, then all of a sudden everything opens up and you complete the puzzle. We just have to keep at it


The Knicks brought in ten new players this year. That is two thirds of the roster. Management wants to get rid of the longest tenured Knick and my guess is Sasha or KOQ isn't back. I don't know how you can establish a culture if you reset the roster every year and keep switching coaches and philosophies. Maybe this starting to happen. It hasn't happened yet under Phil.

MOST of the team is likely coming back. Also this is about the LONG TERM and not just next season. They will have some continuity next year but also an influx of LONG TERM pieces! That's the whole point of a rebuild. Younger core players that you can run with for many years!


So do we agree that there isn't and the team hasn't had continuity during Phil's first 3 yrs?

Sure! But why would you want continuity with players you don't want? You don't force things keeping players you don't want, just to say you have continuity.

Phil yr 1 cleans house and drafts KP and Willy. He tries in yr 2 to build up some value and he does and trades RoLo. Yr 3 he tries to cater to Melo and brings in some vets. However he at the same time brought in 5 rookies and kept his options open. This summer he gives up on the Melo Era and will likely bring back a good % of the roster.

So he picks them one year and doesn't want them the next year? What does that say about his initial judgement to add them to the roster? You make it sound as though he is forced to sign these players. Lets look at Rolo. He fit the Triangle, somewhat young, did the intangibles and enabled Melo to have one of his best assist seasons in quite some time. But you trade him? Then you sign a injury prone, aging Noah to 4 years? How bout rebuild? You draft Grant and trade him after one year? Did he not see him play prior to the draft? Can we really say that Grant all of sudden changed his game to something so different from his college days? So a rebuild gives your rookies just one year to develop? Rose was for Melo? How exactly would a high usage player competing for touches help Melo? Nix man, I am tired of the Phil argument. maybe. But you cant obsolve the guy in charge of a three year 165 loss record.

The W/L record is bad but it's only one aspect of what Phil has been doing. He never went ALL IN on winning and his clear intent was to try to win but not to sacrifice the future. Well that future is now!!! Phil is ready to move on from Melo and the youth movement is going to take precedence.

It's not about absolving Phil of anything. There's a clear shift going on. This is obviously a rebuild now. Not a prototypical rebuild but still a rebuild.

what do you mean by youth, like he's only going to sign 21 yr olds, He only has one 1st rnd pick. You already know he is not getting any 1st picks for melo, and he clearly said he want a bone fide score in return for melo What contender is giving up their youth and picks for melo

Suppose melo doesn't waive his NTC and sticks it to phil..then what

BTW, can you pull up phils interview, the part where he said we are going with the youth movement, becaase i never heard that

ES
Bonn1997
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4/20/2017  8:30 AM
fwk00 wrote:
martin wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:I'm a little confused on what you guys consider a rebuild, it just seem like we have been through this process many times.

How many teams in this league have more then 2 or 3 above avg players currently on the roster they actually drafted?


Rebuild is when your main focus is getting young players who you believe will be effective for many years. It has nothing to do with the percentage of players you drafted. You can trade for or sign young players. But you definitely don't spend $250 mil on guys like Noah, Melo, and Rose.

Jesus Bonn. Statements like this are so TMZ inflammatory and out of context that they just suck.

Let's just take Melo.

In 2012-13 the Knicks had a 54 win team with Melo averaging almost 29PPG, highest in the league, and 37 MPG. Legit MVP candidate. He was 28.

2013-14 Knicks didn't do as well but Melo still brought it. Played nearly 39 minutes per game. Scored 27.4 per game, shot 40% from 3pt land. 8 RPG. Played 77 games. Only 29.

Are you telling me as a GM you would NOT bring this type of guy back even if you knew you were gonna go through some sort of rebuild? He was an UFA.

I hate the NTC but Phil is in a pickle here and has zero leverage with Melo realistically. The owner wants him to have a marque guy and is in the hunt for all star game (or was that already decided). Dude just came off of an MPV quality season - and maybe another if the record is better?

Melo comes to him and says I really really really want to stay in NY and I just proved to the organization with 2 years of buff play. I am ready for 3-4 more years at this level. If I don't get NTC I walk.

What can Phil say to this? And as GM, would you be AOK with Melo walking for nothing as your first months on job?

Frankly, I didn't think Melo would break down this fast, he is a shell of himself. Sucks.

A very fair and accurate account of the historical record. Phil did not "gift" a NTC to Melo. Melo took a fiscal haircut and demanded the NTC in return.

That's not exactly shrewd on Phil's part. It would be less bad if he just gave Melo the extra 1 mil a season and didn't have the NTC actually.

GustavBahler
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4/20/2017  8:48 AM
WaltLongmire wrote:Have pointed this out a few times... Phil could not do a true "strip it down" rebuild because of what past folks in his position had left him.

You can go back on your own to look at the 2014 and 2016 drafts to see what we might have ended with if Phil had all of our picks we've given away over the years... 1st and 2nd rounds.

I'm not sure he would have signed Melo if he had a full complement of picks.

Phil misused Chandler as a trade asset- maybe we could have traded him to the Cavs for the 2 #1s they gave Denver for Mosgov.

If he really didn't want JR, he should have traded him immediately- his contract had only a year left and it was only about $5M. It might have helped Hardaway, who could have emerged as more of a leader without Melo and Smith around. Maybe Shumpert even fits in a little better.

Water under the bridge, obviously, but for me the biggest issues for Phil was that he wanted the game played a certain way, was saddled with a star he probably didn't want, and was missing the draft picks which he would have benefited from if he had jettisoned Melo, Smith, and Chandler.

Disagree that JR could have been easily moved without Shumpert. He was the most toxic player in the league at the time, look back at the timeline of his antics (to put it nicely) that led up to his being traded. No one wanted anything to do with him. The only team willing to take him on was one with a player in the conversation for GOAT. Even then it took a while for JR to stay out of trouble long enough to help them win a ring. Remember that Chuck Norris like spinning backfist punch his first playoff series with the Cavs? No one wanted any of that.

Dont blame Phil for trading Hardaway either as he looked much the same as he did in NY, his first season in Atlanta. If THJ had stayed in NY another season, and played as poorly, I doubt many here would have shed a tear if he had left.

When Chandler was traded he was flu Tyson. He was throwing teammates under the bus, and leaving himself blameless. All sorts of injuries, his value was rock bottom at the time. Dont believe it was realistic to expect Phil to get DPOY prices for a player whose value was shot at the time.

Unless Dolan mandated that Phil bring Melo back for the max (with an NTC) it is 100 percent on him. No exec in the league would get a pass for making a deal like this, and neither should he. Thought it was a bad idea then.

You're right Phil couldn't do an old school, ground up, rebuild with draft picks. But he could have done a partial rebuild with cap space if Melo had walked. Doing a sign and trade, or just letting Melo, go would have given the Knicks the cap room to start a rebuild with better, younger players, while we waited to get our picks again.

We still did do a strip down rebuild every season in the sense that any player who wasn't deemed to be a "Triangle Player" was jettisoned, and that meant almost everyone. This meant looking for a very particular type of player. Harder to find as it takes several seasons to really play this system well with any consistency. This meant going through many players to find a very particular player with the right skill set.

You take away the Triangle, and its very specific demands, and you wind up with more players available, good players, who can help the team. If Jeff was allowed to run the system he wants, I doubt that players who fit would be this hard to find.

newyorknewyork
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4/20/2017  9:16 AM
yellowboy90 wrote:
martin wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:I'm a little confused on what you guys consider a rebuild, it just seem like we have been through this process many times.

How many teams in this league have more then 2 or 3 above avg players currently on the roster they actually drafted?


Rebuild is when your main focus is getting young players who you believe will be effective for many years. It has nothing to do with the percentage of players you drafted. You can trade for or sign young players. But you definitely don't spend $250 mil on guys like Noah, Melo, and Rose.

Jesus Bonn. Statements like this are so TMZ inflammatory and out of context that they just suck.

Let's just take Melo.

In 2012-13 the Knicks had a 54 win team with Melo averaging almost 29PPG, highest in the league, and 37 MPG. Legit MVP candidate. He was 28.

2013-14 Knicks didn't do as well but Melo still brought it. Played nearly 39 minutes per game. Scored 27.4 per game, shot 40% from 3pt land. 8 RPG. Played 77 games. Only 29.

Are you telling me as a GM you would NOT bring this type of guy back even if you knew you were gonna go through some sort of rebuild? He was an UFA.

I hate the NTC but Phil is in a pickle here and has zero leverage with Melo realistically. The owner wants him to have a marque guy and is in the hunt for all star game (or was that already decided). Dude just came off of an MPV quality season - and maybe another if the record is better?

Melo comes to him and says I really really really want to stay in NY and I just proved to the organization with 2 years of buff play. I am ready for 3-4 more years at this level. If I don't get NTC I walk.

What can Phil say to this? And as GM, would you be AOK with Melo walking for nothing as your first months on job?

Frankly, I didn't think Melo would break down this fast, he is a shell of himself. Sucks.

The issue is that you can survive with overpaying for a Melo or a Rose or a Noah but it is not smart to double or triple down on your bet by putting all three of them together.

The NTC is a big issue but lets take that out. You bring back Melo after a season removed from helping his team win 54. Wouldn't it be smart to study what made him and that team successful and try to mold your team in a similar image while making sure to strengthen some of that 54 win team weaknesses?

So far his Phil seems like someone who only looks at one side of a puzzle piece while falling to notice how the other sides of the piece don't fit in. He looks at the team a says we need someone who can get to the basket and goes out and gets Rose falling to understand how bad of a defender/passer he has been recently.

When Phil came in we were a 37 win team not a 54 win team. We had Tyson Chandler having a injury riddle year while openly throwing Woodson under the bus for his defensive schemes after every game. We had Raymond Felton catching a gun charge and a divorce and playing like a scrub. We had Jr Smith addicted to coke and partying and dropping from 18pts per game 6th man of the year (which is the first and only time he has done that in his career and not something to be counted on) to 14.5pts per game. We had Shump more interested in NY night life and his rap alblums then putting the work to develop his game. And limited contributions from Amare and Bargs who combined for something like 40mil.

With all that we also had no cap space and gave up our draft pick for Bargs.

What exaclty is your IDEA of a Rebuild

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