nixluva wrote:

90sKnicks wrote:Phil's press conference made sense to me and I agreed with almost everything he said. He wants team basketball, the team's problem is mostly defense, the triangle offense isn't an impediment or a governing rule but additional tools for a player's tool kit, Melo holds the ball too long, there was resistance from the top from the players on what the coaches were trying to implement.

This narrative that Phil attacked Melo or that Phil is clueless or the press conference was a disaster by Phil is just lame efforts from hopeless media reporters.

Yeah when you actually watch the Press Conference it's much different than how the Media portrayed it. Phil was actually very clear and on point with what he was saying. He's right that a player has to be coachable. If not then he has to go.

Phil is right to want to purge resistant players from the team. Phil was hired to run the team and not the players.

I agree and it amazes me that there's fans that don't like that all he did was tell the truth at the podium. I can't find anything he said that i really didn't like. We all know Phil made mistakes with signings and other things but they happened so lets carry on now and hope he sticks to his guns this time and just gets this rebuild going with the right players. He went away from that last year to appease Melo and give him enough talent to win with which Melo still couldn't do.

nixluva wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

s3231 wrote:The biggest mistake Phil has made here was trying to appease Melo this season by getting him veteran help to win immediately. All of the bad moves we've made came through this (e.g. Signing Noah to 4 years, using Lopez asset on Rose, etc.).

Funny how no one is bringing up that before the season, Melo came out and said "it's on us now, the front office did their job."

Well, the players certainly did NOT do their job this season. Phil has faults for sure and I certainly don't agree with everything he has done but for Melo to make it about the franchise not wanting to win is completely ridiculous.

Time to part ways and bring in talented 2-way players that play TEAM ball.

http://nypost.com/2016/07/18/carmelo-anthony-is-gushing-over-these-knicks-thank-you-phil/

I have no problem with pretty much everything Phil said at his presser. The new york media people are morons and just want to make everything Phil ever says look as bad as they can make it look. What's wrong with Phil saying Melo would be better off somewhere else that he can chase a championship?? Nothing at all is wrong with that. He got up there and he spoke the truth which most GM's/presidents are scared to do cause that's just not the way it's been done for however many years. There's always been this thing that certain people in organizations are supposed to answer questions in a certain way and the all answer questions the same way but never just come out and say how they really feel but Phil does and sometimes he does say things that he shouldn't say but at least it's the truth whether that ends up hurting someone's feelings or not it's still the truth.

I love the kind of players he wants to get in here that play both sides of the floor and move the ball and move themselves even when they don't have the ball. So much is made of the triangle because the media have made it into this big thing, not because it doesn't work cause it does work when the player buy in and you have the right players but with how badly it's been for us since Phil has been here it makes the media people look like they're right but they're not right. It hasn't been working because Melo and other players just didn't into it cause they were to busy listening to the media and what they say about the triangle instead of just buying into it as a team. This year it was even worse because we didn't just stay with the triangle from the beginning and sometimes used some triangle and there was a point where we pretty much used no triangle and then we went back to the triangle, it was a mess and we should of just ran it from the beginning or ran one system from the beginning.

So now we start fresh again. It's gonna kinda suck starting again but if we just stick with one system and get the right players on this team it can absolutely work. It's gonna take 2/3/4 years until we really get this team where it needs to be but it will be worth it when we have the team we need and we're consistently winning games and making playoff runs and more.

I agree. It's a process to develop so many home grown young players. We will have quite a few coming back from this year and adding more on top of that. I think what will help next year is that they will have some continuity. Phil was happy with how Jeff had the team playing to close the season. The offense was free flowing and the effort on D picked up. It just proved that this team can play the right way.

Phil just needs to add the right young players that play the way he wants to see players play on both sides of the court and once these young kids are playing well and winning games and KP is playing like we know he will then other bigger name players will want to come play here. The Celtics built there team this way by getting good all around players and there only true star was I.Thomas, but their rebuild took some years as well, but they did it with the right kind of players who play tough defense with the offensive players mixed in there. If D.Ainge wasn't so scared to trade some of his high draft picks the last couple of years they'd probably be more of a favorite to win a championship than they are now cause they could have another top player right now if he would just come off of one or two of those picks. I'm not sure it will matter too much cause he has that team headed in the right direction obviously but Phil can do the same thing with some patience to do it the right way. The question is more of if he can make the smart moves like Danny has.

newyorker4ever wrote:

nixluva wrote:

90sKnicks wrote:Phil's press conference made sense to me and I agreed with almost everything he said. He wants team basketball, the team's problem is mostly defense, the triangle offense isn't an impediment or a governing rule but additional tools for a player's tool kit, Melo holds the ball too long, there was resistance from the top from the players on what the coaches were trying to implement.

This narrative that Phil attacked Melo or that Phil is clueless or the press conference was a disaster by Phil is just lame efforts from hopeless media reporters.

Yeah when you actually watch the Press Conference it's much different than how the Media portrayed it. Phil was actually very clear and on point with what he was saying. He's right that a player has to be coachable. If not then he has to go.

Phil is right to want to purge resistant players from the team. Phil was hired to run the team and not the players.

I agree and it amazes me that there's fans that don't like that all he did was tell the truth at the podium. I can't find anything he said that i really didn't like. We all know Phil made mistakes with signings and other things but they happened so lets carry on now and hope he sticks to his guns this time and just gets this rebuild going with the right players. He went away from that last year to appease Melo and give him enough talent to win with which Melo still couldn't do.

This is false and I do not know why people keep spewing this non-sense. If you have an exit meeting and a player says I would want to win now and I think we need an upgrade at certain positions that does not mean go out and get terrible players or players with injury issues. It is your job to surround the talent you have with players that fit their styles how in the world did Phil think Rose and Jennings fit around the talent he has knowing their track record? Also, Phil was trying to move Jose at the deadline even before he had talks with Melo so how is it on Melo. The bottom line is people are continuing to let Phil off the hook for his roster construction ability. You lived 2 years with a lead guard who couldn't defend. You whisper sweet nothings in the ear of Rosen about needing your lead guard to be a good defender then you go out a get Rose. Rose a known terrible defender and on top of that you bring in a back up that can't defend either. So you bring in two players who can't shoot, defend, and have at times been selfish. How is that smart? Those choices resemble the same moves as the year before. He consistently make terrible moves but we are suppose to just over look them and say well the past is the past and focus on Melo.

Anyway, if people really watch the PC some things should have stood out.

1) His inability to accept any blame. A leader does not except blame by throwing others under the bus first.

2) Lance Thomas being considered a cornerstone player in Phil eyes

3) Kurt Rambis is the only one that knows the triangle as well as him but he used him as a d-coordinator. So if they re-focus on the triangle and Rambis directs the defense how is he not the defacto-coach

3) talked about JH shortcomings but let Rambis off the hook.

4) Admitted that he would interrupt practices. How does that not undermine JH as the clear voice of the players?

5) The Rose door seeming left open. Maybe because he doesn't settle for cheap points

holfresh wrote:Phil never accepts responsibility...Never...His supporters fall for every line he spews...Phil's scapegoats over the years..

Year One, JR and Shump were the problems, Later THjr wasn't buying into the triangle...
Year Two, Fisher didn't run the triangle full time...Rambis did a hit job after the firing saying Fisher wasn't "immersed" in the triangle...
Year Three, Melo isn't buying in, He holds the ball...

Because I don't care about the triangle- all that matters is moving melo and rebuilding via the draft the next 3 years. Phil will be gone in 2 so the triangle is a non-issue- all we need is to tank and make the most of high lottery picks. Get rid of Phil and you risk keeping Melo, and flipping us into win-now mode.

melo never accepts any responsibility- when was the last time he said "I have to play better defense" or "I have to pass the ball more"?

holfresh wrote:Phil never accepts responsibility...Never...His supporters fall for every line he spews...Phil's scapegoats over the years..

Year One, JR and Shump were the problems, Later THjr wasn't buying into the triangle...
Year Two, Fisher didn't run the triangle full time...Rambis did a hit job after the firing saying Fisher wasn't "immersed" in the triangle...
Year Three, Melo isn't buying in, He holds the ball...

Never, ever....

January 10th, 2015

“In anticipating that we were going to be better, that we were giving hope to our fans that maybe there was a possible playoff opportunity here, that goes on me,” Jackson said.

http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-nba-coast-to-coast-20150110-story.html

Not easy to find. He does a bit of it in his books.
Holfresh, Make no bones about it, PHil is a dyke. He is not that different than Isiah in terms of revisionist grandeur about his career. Isiah as a player that can do no wrong as an exec, and Phil in his own right. ONly thing is PHil has yet to make the fatal blunders of Isiah. He is not blowing money as did isiah, nor leveraging the future. So while PHil is not succeeding in the current form, the team at its current rate won't need 5 years to undue what others have done before.
Melo is likley traumatized having worked for both Karl and Phil.
Not nice people are successful. Karl, Riles, Auerback, Pop, and long list of coaches and execs who have won. They say things about players and absolve blame on others. Its born from a supreme belief in their abilities.
Now Dolan is not sucessful in his own right. But thats a whole other story. Phil has a mess on his hands this off season and that press conference was awful. Or what is???
In my view, your selling it too hard. Phil does a good job making enemies well enough on his own without you trying to sell it over and over, and projecting that you know what he, or KP are thinking without any basis.
Phil is a like Belichek, arrogant, tell it like it is kind of guy. Both very successful in their own worlds. PHil took on a challange for a lot of money with a team that had deeper deficits than first thought. YOu have to admit that. He has not done a good job, but he has fundamentally stuck to an agenda that is about the future than instant gratification which would have made him also look better.
Phil is doing the right things, you just might like all the results currently or how he goes about it. Can't say I do, but Im rooting for the guy!!!

This is Pre Knick Phil.......
http://www.cheatsheet.com/sports/10-of-phil-jacksons-most-famous-insults.html/?a=viewall

CrushAlot wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/lockedonknicks/status/853004140313751555

Finally got to listen to this episode. I thought the guys were spot on.

I thought these guys didn't know what they were talking about. They mistake winning as winning and not holding up a championship trophy. Like I said before any team can make the playoffs but are you merely happy with just making playoffs? Don't you want a team capable of winning it all as opposed to a team content on making the playoffs. Honestly I for one could give a rats ass about the playoffs if I know the team we have is not winning shyt. You want to be the Hawks, Clippers they are in the playoffs but you know they ain't Winning.

CrushAlot wrote:

Vmart wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/lockedonknicks/status/853004140313751555

Finally got to listen to this episode. I thought the guys were spot on.

I thought these guys didn't know what they were talking about. They mistake winning as winning and not holding up a championship trophy. Like I said before any team can make the playoffs but are you merely happy with just making playoffs? Don't you want a team capable of winning it all as opposed to a team content on making the playoffs. Honestly I for one could give a rats ass about the playoffs if I know the team we have is not winning shyt. You want to be the Hawks, Clippers they are in the playoffs but you know they ain't Winning.

What was your opinion on their take about Phil wanting a significant starter back to fill the 34-36 minutes Melo plays? Or that even if KP isn't ready the team should be built around him? Are those the mistakes you are talking about?
I am not sure what you are referring to when you say they mistake winning as winning and not holding up a championship tropy? I don't remember that in the content.

If your going to move Melo you want picks and a starters back to make the contract work and also to use in future trades to yeild more assets. So yes getting a 34-36 minute player is a must.

You have to give the keys to the team to KP at some point in the process. Next year is as good as any. Example Kevin Durant was given the green light from day one with the then Sonics. And later drafts yielded Westbrook and Harden and Ibaka. Using that as an example why can't KP start his leadership process. There never is a right time for it it an as you go process. Who knows KP may never be a leader you won't know unless given a chance.

I was referring to the beginning monologue of the show when I was talking about winning being winning with no championship aspirations. They were harping on Melo's 54 wins but some here don't realize that was a Melo that bought in and was being lead by Future HOF players. Another thing some here don't realize is that there haven't been players that Melo would follow available. You saw it with Lin, Lin showed some ability to lead but Melo didn't accept him. To try and find players that Melo would accept direction from is a tough task for any GM. My theory is that Phil brought in Rose hoping that Melo would fall in line. But the reality is Rose is a shell of himself and he himself isn't a vocal person which didn't help.

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

holfresh wrote:Phil never accepts responsibility...Never...His supporters fall for every line he spews...Phil's scapegoats over the years..

Year One, JR and Shump were the problems, Later THjr wasn't buying into the triangle...
Year Two, Fisher didn't run the triangle full time...Rambis did a hit job after the firing saying Fisher wasn't "immersed" in the triangle...
Year Three, Melo isn't buying in, He holds the ball...

Because I don't care about the triangle- all that matters is moving melo and rebuilding via the draft the next 3 years. Phil will be gone in 2 so the triangle is a non-issue- all we need is to tank and make the most of high lottery picks. Get rid of Phil and you risk keeping Melo, and flipping us into win-now mode.

melo never accepts any responsibility- when was the last time he said "I have to play better defense" or "I have to pass the ball more"?

It's a fantasy...people rebuild thru the draft over the 20 years...3 years and you are pissing in the wind...

OK, but it's also a fantasy that if we just get more Melo's and Derrick Rose's we'll be great.

I'm still not understanding how building thru the Draft is not the right thing for this franchise at this point. What's the alternative holfresh is proposing? I don't see a viable alternative.

nixluva wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

holfresh wrote:Phil never accepts responsibility...Never...His supporters fall for every line he spews...Phil's scapegoats over the years..

Year One, JR and Shump were the problems, Later THjr wasn't buying into the triangle...
Year Two, Fisher didn't run the triangle full time...Rambis did a hit job after the firing saying Fisher wasn't "immersed" in the triangle...
Year Three, Melo isn't buying in, He holds the ball...

Because I don't care about the triangle- all that matters is moving melo and rebuilding via the draft the next 3 years. Phil will be gone in 2 so the triangle is a non-issue- all we need is to tank and make the most of high lottery picks. Get rid of Phil and you risk keeping Melo, and flipping us into win-now mode.

melo never accepts any responsibility- when was the last time he said "I have to play better defense" or "I have to pass the ball more"?

It's a fantasy...people rebuild thru the draft over the 20 years...3 years and you are pissing in the wind...

OK, but it's also a fantasy that if we just get more Melo's and Derrick Rose's we'll be great.

I'm still not understanding how building thru the Draft is not the right thing for this franchise at this point. What's the alternative holfresh is proposing? I don't see a viable alternative.

nixluva wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

holfresh wrote:Phil never accepts responsibility...Never...His supporters fall for every line he spews...Phil's scapegoats over the years..

Year One, JR and Shump were the problems, Later THjr wasn't buying into the triangle...
Year Two, Fisher didn't run the triangle full time...Rambis did a hit job after the firing saying Fisher wasn't "immersed" in the triangle...
Year Three, Melo isn't buying in, He holds the ball...

Because I don't care about the triangle- all that matters is moving melo and rebuilding via the draft the next 3 years. Phil will be gone in 2 so the triangle is a non-issue- all we need is to tank and make the most of high lottery picks. Get rid of Phil and you risk keeping Melo, and flipping us into win-now mode.

melo never accepts any responsibility- when was the last time he said "I have to play better defense" or "I have to pass the ball more"?

It's a fantasy...people rebuild thru the draft over the 20 years...3 years and you are pissing in the wind...

OK, but it's also a fantasy that if we just get more Melo's and Derrick Rose's we'll be great.

I'm still not understanding how building thru the Draft is not the right thing for this franchise at this point. What's the alternative holfresh is proposing? I don't see a viable alternative.

The way the cba is set up every team needs to be careful and smart with the draft. However, the Knicks have one first round pick each year. I am confident that the Knicks will be in the lottery the next two years but I am not confident about trades, free agent signings, team chemistry, coaching, the creating of a culture that Phil talked about when he first got hired etc. Reset #4 should be interesting. Is Rose resigned, is Melo back, who does Phil get for Melo?

My question was what is the alternative to Phil looking more towards the draft and young UDFA's and FA's? That is the only logical path at this point.

The Knicks already have KP and Willy as a head start on the youth movement along with Role Players like Baker who i'm high on and Randle as well. I like what I saw from these kids. Now having a chance to add a high level Talent in this draft could be a critical piece. What if they can resign Holiday and sign his brother Jrue?

You and others keep talking like the Knicks need to load up on 4 more All Stars in order for this team to improve and that's not really true. For them to one day have a chance to build an Elite Title contender they have to start with a talented Core and keep them together. The only way they can do that is to draft those players. Once that core is established and the team is actually able to win games then you can really look to add a top FA. But let's take one step at a time.