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Phil's press conference
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yellowboy90
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4/16/2017  4:10 PM
nixluva wrote:
yellowboy90 wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
nixluva wrote:
fwk00 wrote:
yellowboy90 wrote:
nixluva wrote:
yellowboy90 wrote:
nixluva wrote:
yellowboy90 wrote:Can someone show me any evidence to the young players playing better to close the season?

Did you watch the games or not??? If you did watch then you don't need any more evidence that the younger players were showing some growth. Like Phil said they didn't have enough talent to get wins but they were doing the right things. Also KP missed games down the stretch.

Next season the team could have a fresh new start without the resistant presence of Melo hovering like a dark cloud. I'm praying that a deal can be made to get Melo out cuz I don't think he's worth the hassle and he's not a positive influence.

So your answer is no? Okay, Just say no we are supposed to go by the eye test.

You are clearly not paying attention if you think the younger players didn't show some growth. Besides what is your point anyway??? What are you trying to get at without actually saying anything?

It's a pretty straightforward question is there any evidence that the young his were playing better? Did they shoot better or grab more boards/ast per 36? Did their off/def rtg improve or maybe their +/- got better.

A number of the young guys played to near or career highs. many were playing double-double or near double-double games. TV analysts expressed a lot of love for Hernangomez. Phil talks glowingly about baker, Randle, Hernangomez, KP, O'Quinn.

What's not to like? Oh, empty stats like melo's? Yeah, in that case, you're right. The kids stink.

He's saying he didn't really watch the games cuz if he did then he would know that the kids did show growth. Arguments like this get a bit silly after a while. It really isn't important because the kids got extended minutes and didn't embarrass themselves. Instead they came together and gained confidence that they can take into the offseason. Anyone watching saw it.


He has a legitimate question. If you go strictly by the eye test, there is the risk you'll just see whatever you want to see.

I imagine Nix would have had charts galore of all kind of stats if they really played better. Maybe they did and he is to tired or simply doesn't want to waste his time that's cool. I was just wondering if there was any evidence to back up the statement of the young guys playing better. I watched the games and participated in most of the game threads but I didn't see anything special other than guys trying hard. Lou Amundson tried hard but usually it results in a crappy all around game. Did the young guys look better at the start of the season or were they better at the end? Just glancing at some of the players numbers a lot of them actually had pretty bad stats according to B-ref. Bad +/-, bad TS%, Def/off rtg, and other lower stats. Ronny Baker scored the ball better tahn the month before but his better is still putrid(47.7% TS%). It seems that his best month was in January when it comes to efficiency, rebounding, Ortg, and he even had a positive +/-. I will say his passing looked good but I always like his passing. I don't see a Hornacek when I watch Ron, I see someone closer to Kirk Hinrich which isn't all bad. Hinrich actually started his career off well but after a few years he wasn't really that effective despite continuing to get time. If Ron can develop his 3pt shot and become a better finisher he might have a chance to stick around. Even if he never becomes an efficient player if he can be a 4+ rebs, 6+ ast, 1.5+ stls, and keep his tovs under 3 I think he will be a nice back up occasional/possible starter.

Funny, I look at those numbers and that is basically what Malcolm Brogdon put up as a rookie. Coming out of college both had similar styles of play and if you look at their measurables they even match up similar in every category. So what stop Baker from being Brogdon? Also, who knows maybe he becomes brogdon like. Then again we need to see if Brogdon can keep his level of play up.

When talking about the younger players there are INTANGIBLE things that I saw that aren't necessarily going to show up in the numbers. Things like decisions with and without the ball. Defensive awareness, cohesion and 2nd effort. Being a bit more patient and less frantic or nervous. Ball and Player movement getting crisper with better timing and execution. Players like Baker and Ndour getting more comfortable and looking smoother offensively.

These things may not move the needle in terms of their stats but you can perceive them visually.

Evidence only matters when you make a thread. Lol.

AUTOADVERT
nixluva
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4/16/2017  7:29 PM
yellowboy90 wrote:
nixluva wrote:
yellowboy90 wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
nixluva wrote:
fwk00 wrote:
yellowboy90 wrote:
nixluva wrote:
yellowboy90 wrote:
nixluva wrote:
yellowboy90 wrote:Can someone show me any evidence to the young players playing better to close the season?

Did you watch the games or not??? If you did watch then you don't need any more evidence that the younger players were showing some growth. Like Phil said they didn't have enough talent to get wins but they were doing the right things. Also KP missed games down the stretch.

Next season the team could have a fresh new start without the resistant presence of Melo hovering like a dark cloud. I'm praying that a deal can be made to get Melo out cuz I don't think he's worth the hassle and he's not a positive influence.

So your answer is no? Okay, Just say no we are supposed to go by the eye test.

You are clearly not paying attention if you think the younger players didn't show some growth. Besides what is your point anyway??? What are you trying to get at without actually saying anything?

It's a pretty straightforward question is there any evidence that the young his were playing better? Did they shoot better or grab more boards/ast per 36? Did their off/def rtg improve or maybe their +/- got better.

A number of the young guys played to near or career highs. many were playing double-double or near double-double games. TV analysts expressed a lot of love for Hernangomez. Phil talks glowingly about baker, Randle, Hernangomez, KP, O'Quinn.

What's not to like? Oh, empty stats like melo's? Yeah, in that case, you're right. The kids stink.

He's saying he didn't really watch the games cuz if he did then he would know that the kids did show growth. Arguments like this get a bit silly after a while. It really isn't important because the kids got extended minutes and didn't embarrass themselves. Instead they came together and gained confidence that they can take into the offseason. Anyone watching saw it.


He has a legitimate question. If you go strictly by the eye test, there is the risk you'll just see whatever you want to see.

I imagine Nix would have had charts galore of all kind of stats if they really played better. Maybe they did and he is to tired or simply doesn't want to waste his time that's cool. I was just wondering if there was any evidence to back up the statement of the young guys playing better. I watched the games and participated in most of the game threads but I didn't see anything special other than guys trying hard. Lou Amundson tried hard but usually it results in a crappy all around game. Did the young guys look better at the start of the season or were they better at the end? Just glancing at some of the players numbers a lot of them actually had pretty bad stats according to B-ref. Bad +/-, bad TS%, Def/off rtg, and other lower stats. Ronny Baker scored the ball better tahn the month before but his better is still putrid(47.7% TS%). It seems that his best month was in January when it comes to efficiency, rebounding, Ortg, and he even had a positive +/-. I will say his passing looked good but I always like his passing. I don't see a Hornacek when I watch Ron, I see someone closer to Kirk Hinrich which isn't all bad. Hinrich actually started his career off well but after a few years he wasn't really that effective despite continuing to get time. If Ron can develop his 3pt shot and become a better finisher he might have a chance to stick around. Even if he never becomes an efficient player if he can be a 4+ rebs, 6+ ast, 1.5+ stls, and keep his tovs under 3 I think he will be a nice back up occasional/possible starter.

Funny, I look at those numbers and that is basically what Malcolm Brogdon put up as a rookie. Coming out of college both had similar styles of play and if you look at their measurables they even match up similar in every category. So what stop Baker from being Brogdon? Also, who knows maybe he becomes brogdon like. Then again we need to see if Brogdon can keep his level of play up.

When talking about the younger players there are INTANGIBLE things that I saw that aren't necessarily going to show up in the numbers. Things like decisions with and without the ball. Defensive awareness, cohesion and 2nd effort. Being a bit more patient and less frantic or nervous. Ball and Player movement getting crisper with better timing and execution. Players like Baker and Ndour getting more comfortable and looking smoother offensively.

These things may not move the needle in terms of their stats but you can perceive them visually.

Evidence only matters when you make a thread. Lol.

No! But with such a small sample size and the kids getting extended minutes for the 1st time why would you think numbers were the best way to try to assess how they were progressing. Not everything will show up plus they're still very inexperienced and in some cases not elite talents so what's the point you're really trying to make?

90sKnicks
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4/16/2017  9:40 PM
Phil's press conference made sense to me and I agreed with almost everything he said. He wants team basketball, the team's problem is mostly defense, the triangle offense isn't an impediment or a governing rule but additional tools for a player's tool kit, Melo holds the ball too long, there was resistance from the top from the players on what the coaches were trying to implement.

This narrative that Phil attacked Melo or that Phil is clueless or the press conference was a disaster by Phil is just lame efforts from hopeless media reporters.

meloshouldgo
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4/16/2017  9:55 PM
Finally had time to watch this thing - as predictable the agenda driven Phil haters are making stuff up to throw at him. I think it was reasonable interview but he does have a larger than life personality and a definite attitude that will rub inadequate fans and players the wrong way. I absolutely loved where he said - "I never criticized Melo, saying that he holds the ball isn't criticism it's the truth!" - Couldn't agree more Phil.
I cannot teach anybody anything. I can only try to make them think - Socrates
nixluva
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4/16/2017  9:57 PM
90sKnicks wrote:Phil's press conference made sense to me and I agreed with almost everything he said. He wants team basketball, the team's problem is mostly defense, the triangle offense isn't an impediment or a governing rule but additional tools for a player's tool kit, Melo holds the ball too long, there was resistance from the top from the players on what the coaches were trying to implement.

This narrative that Phil attacked Melo or that Phil is clueless or the press conference was a disaster by Phil is just lame efforts from hopeless media reporters.


Yeah when you actually watch the Press Conference it's much different than how the Media portrayed it. Phil was actually very clear and on point with what he was saying. He's right that a player has to be coachable. If not then he has to go.

Phil is right to want to purge resistant players from the team. Phil was hired to run the team and not the players.

knicks1248
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4/16/2017  10:11 PM
nixluva wrote:
90sKnicks wrote:Phil's press conference made sense to me and I agreed with almost everything he said. He wants team basketball, the team's problem is mostly defense, the triangle offense isn't an impediment or a governing rule but additional tools for a player's tool kit, Melo holds the ball too long, there was resistance from the top from the players on what the coaches were trying to implement.

This narrative that Phil attacked Melo or that Phil is clueless or the press conference was a disaster by Phil is just lame efforts from hopeless media reporters.


Yeah when you actually watch the Press Conference it's much different than how the Media portrayed it. Phil was actually very clear and on point with what he was saying. He's right that a player has to be coachable. If not then he has to go.

Phil is right to want to purge resistant players from the team. Phil was hired to run the team and not the players.

If this was woodsons roster i could understand, but this is going on every year and he's been 100% responsible for the roster. He hire JH then complains he's a young coach.

So every media outlet in the country is against phil, smh, you guys are in such denial

ES
meloshouldgo
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4/16/2017  10:26 PM
knicks1248 wrote:
nixluva wrote:
90sKnicks wrote:Phil's press conference made sense to me and I agreed with almost everything he said. He wants team basketball, the team's problem is mostly defense, the triangle offense isn't an impediment or a governing rule but additional tools for a player's tool kit, Melo holds the ball too long, there was resistance from the top from the players on what the coaches were trying to implement.

This narrative that Phil attacked Melo or that Phil is clueless or the press conference was a disaster by Phil is just lame efforts from hopeless media reporters.


Yeah when you actually watch the Press Conference it's much different than how the Media portrayed it. Phil was actually very clear and on point with what he was saying. He's right that a player has to be coachable. If not then he has to go.

Phil is right to want to purge resistant players from the team. Phil was hired to run the team and not the players.

If this was woodsons roster i could understand, but this is going on every year and he's been 100% responsible for the roster. He hire JH then complains he's a young coach.

So every media outlet in the country is against phil, smh, you guys are in such denial

You should talk about denial. Phil is going to be here for another two years, Melo is not. Good luck rooting for the Clips.

I cannot teach anybody anything. I can only try to make them think - Socrates
CrushAlot
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4/16/2017  10:30 PM
meloshouldgo wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
nixluva wrote:
90sKnicks wrote:Phil's press conference made sense to me and I agreed with almost everything he said. He wants team basketball, the team's problem is mostly defense, the triangle offense isn't an impediment or a governing rule but additional tools for a player's tool kit, Melo holds the ball too long, there was resistance from the top from the players on what the coaches were trying to implement.

This narrative that Phil attacked Melo or that Phil is clueless or the press conference was a disaster by Phil is just lame efforts from hopeless media reporters.


Yeah when you actually watch the Press Conference it's much different than how the Media portrayed it. Phil was actually very clear and on point with what he was saying. He's right that a player has to be coachable. If not then he has to go.

Phil is right to want to purge resistant players from the team. Phil was hired to run the team and not the players.

If this was woodsons roster i could understand, but this is going on every year and he's been 100% responsible for the roster. He hire JH then complains he's a young coach.

So every media outlet in the country is against phil, smh, you guys are in such denial

You should talk about denial. Phil is going to be here for another two years, Melo is not. Good luck rooting for the Clips.

Will see. After hearing Phil say he is going to up his mentoring game I think Melo would be crazy to stay. But Woj is reporting that Melo is more resolved to stay after Phil's press conference. Some crazy old @ss gave Melo a ntc, a trade kicker and a near max salary. So whatever Melo decides is what will happen.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
nixluva
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4/16/2017  10:32 PM
knicks1248 wrote:
nixluva wrote:
90sKnicks wrote:Phil's press conference made sense to me and I agreed with almost everything he said. He wants team basketball, the team's problem is mostly defense, the triangle offense isn't an impediment or a governing rule but additional tools for a player's tool kit, Melo holds the ball too long, there was resistance from the top from the players on what the coaches were trying to implement.

This narrative that Phil attacked Melo or that Phil is clueless or the press conference was a disaster by Phil is just lame efforts from hopeless media reporters.


Yeah when you actually watch the Press Conference it's much different than how the Media portrayed it. Phil was actually very clear and on point with what he was saying. He's right that a player has to be coachable. If not then he has to go.

Phil is right to want to purge resistant players from the team. Phil was hired to run the team and not the players.

If this was woodsons roster i could understand, but this is going on every year and he's been 100% responsible for the roster. He hire JH then complains he's a young coach.

So every media outlet in the country is against phil, smh, you guys are in such denial


Most of the roster is likely coming back. There will of course be some new additions and hopefully it's a significant talent upgrade. I don't see the problem.

Phil knew Jeff was a relatively new coach with a good basketball mind, but there's a lot more to the job and Phil wants to help him. Nothing wrong with that. Phil also realizes that some Vets were a hindrance to what Jeff was trying to do.

Who cares about Media outlets???

meloshouldgo
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4/16/2017  10:35 PM
CrushAlot wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
nixluva wrote:
90sKnicks wrote:Phil's press conference made sense to me and I agreed with almost everything he said. He wants team basketball, the team's problem is mostly defense, the triangle offense isn't an impediment or a governing rule but additional tools for a player's tool kit, Melo holds the ball too long, there was resistance from the top from the players on what the coaches were trying to implement.

This narrative that Phil attacked Melo or that Phil is clueless or the press conference was a disaster by Phil is just lame efforts from hopeless media reporters.


Yeah when you actually watch the Press Conference it's much different than how the Media portrayed it. Phil was actually very clear and on point with what he was saying. He's right that a player has to be coachable. If not then he has to go.

Phil is right to want to purge resistant players from the team. Phil was hired to run the team and not the players.

If this was woodsons roster i could understand, but this is going on every year and he's been 100% responsible for the roster. He hire JH then complains he's a young coach.

So every media outlet in the country is against phil, smh, you guys are in such denial

You should talk about denial. Phil is going to be here for another two years, Melo is not. Good luck rooting for the Clips.

Will see. After hearing Phil say he is going to up his mentoring game I think Melo would be crazy to stay. But Woj is reporting that Melo is more resolved to stay after Phil's press conference. Some crazy old @ss gave Melo a ntc, a trade kicker and a near max salary. So whatever Melo decides is what will happen.

You forgot to mention the 54 win season

I cannot teach anybody anything. I can only try to make them think - Socrates
GoNyGoNyGo
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4/17/2017  9:03 AM
meloshouldgo wrote:Finally had time to watch this thing - as predictable the agenda driven Phil haters are making stuff up to throw at him. I think it was reasonable interview but he does have a larger than life personality and a definite attitude that will rub inadequate fans and players the wrong way. I absolutely loved where he said - "I never criticized Melo, saying that he holds the ball isn't criticism it's the truth!" - Couldn't agree more Phil.

I agree. Phil told the truth. Melo holds the ball and it hurts the team. He also said that they need players that don't take possessions off on either end. I think he means Melo and Rose there. The team is hurt by that laissez faire attitude by some. They act entitled. BS. Lebron is the hardest working guy on his team. So was MJ and Kobe too. Melo is NOT. He is not a leader, he is a scorer. The man is aid $25M per year. He can do more than score. BTW, he does not do that as well anymore either. I blame PHIL for resigning Melo. He should have cut bait 3 years ago.

KP is upset now. Good, he is learning the business. Melo is a mentor to him and that is EXACTLY why he needs to go. KP will be fine without Melo here. He needs to improve his game this off-season for sure but I believe with teammates around him who are ball players, the game will become more fun.

Winning cures everything.


NY still needs an attitude adjustment. A culture change. Melo is the leader of the culture that needs to be changed. The only time he was happy was with Woodson running ISOMELO ball. He resisted MDA (who is a genius at Houston now), resisted Lin, resisting PJax and Hornacek. Did not get along with STAT either.

The sad part is they will get nothing in return of value most likely. A pick or two would be ideal.

fishmike
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4/17/2017  9:10 AM
CrushAlot wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
nixluva wrote:
90sKnicks wrote:Phil's press conference made sense to me and I agreed with almost everything he said. He wants team basketball, the team's problem is mostly defense, the triangle offense isn't an impediment or a governing rule but additional tools for a player's tool kit, Melo holds the ball too long, there was resistance from the top from the players on what the coaches were trying to implement.

This narrative that Phil attacked Melo or that Phil is clueless or the press conference was a disaster by Phil is just lame efforts from hopeless media reporters.


Yeah when you actually watch the Press Conference it's much different than how the Media portrayed it. Phil was actually very clear and on point with what he was saying. He's right that a player has to be coachable. If not then he has to go.

Phil is right to want to purge resistant players from the team. Phil was hired to run the team and not the players.

If this was woodsons roster i could understand, but this is going on every year and he's been 100% responsible for the roster. He hire JH then complains he's a young coach.

So every media outlet in the country is against phil, smh, you guys are in such denial

You should talk about denial. Phil is going to be here for another two years, Melo is not. Good luck rooting for the Clips.

Will see. After hearing Phil say he is going to up his mentoring game I think Melo would be crazy to stay. But Woj is reporting that Melo is more resolved to stay after Phil's press conference. Some crazy old @ss gave Melo a ntc, a trade kicker and a near max salary. So whatever Melo decides is what will happen.
Melo is not staying because Woj says so. That is nothing but dramatic reporting. If you know ANYTHING about Melo there are 3 things that drive him: Money, being liked, being comfortable. If you think he's going to have another season here like this after his team president said "best to go" you just have not been paying attention.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
CrushAlot
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4/17/2017  9:12 AM
GoNyGoNyGo wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:Finally had time to watch this thing - as predictable the agenda driven Phil haters are making stuff up to throw at him. I think it was reasonable interview but he does have a larger than life personality and a definite attitude that will rub inadequate fans and players the wrong way. I absolutely loved where he said - "I never criticized Melo, saying that he holds the ball isn't criticism it's the truth!" - Couldn't agree more Phil.

I agree. Phil told the truth. Melo holds the ball and it hurts the team. He also said that they need players that don't take possessions off on either end. I think he means Melo and Rose there. The team is hurt by that laissez faire attitude by some. They act entitled. BS. Lebron is the hardest working guy on his team. So was MJ and Kobe too. Melo is NOT. He is not a leader, he is a scorer. The man is aid $25M per year. He can do more than score. BTW, he does not do that as well anymore either. I blame PHIL for resigning Melo. He should have cut bait 3 years ago.

KP is upset now. Good, he is learning the business. Melo is a mentor to him and that is EXACTLY why he needs to go. KP will be fine without Melo here. He needs to improve his game this off-season for sure but I believe with teammates around him who are ball players, the game will become more fun.

Winning cures everything.


NY still needs an attitude adjustment. A culture change. Melo is the leader of the culture that needs to be changed. The only time he was happy was with Woodson running ISOMELO ball. He resisted MDA (who is a genius at Houston now), resisted Lin, resisting PJax and Hornacek. Did not get along with STAT either.

The sad part is they will get nothing in return of value most likely. A pick or two would be ideal.

KP has been upset since at least February when he made his top down comment and said he wasn't having fun playing basketball. He also reportedly let it be known he didn't like Rambis as a coach at the end of last season. Phil wants more Rambis.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
yellowboy90
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4/17/2017  9:57 AM
nixluva wrote:
yellowboy90 wrote:
nixluva wrote:
yellowboy90 wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
nixluva wrote:
fwk00 wrote:
yellowboy90 wrote:
nixluva wrote:
yellowboy90 wrote:
nixluva wrote:
yellowboy90 wrote:Can someone show me any evidence to the young players playing better to close the season?

Did you watch the games or not??? If you did watch then you don't need any more evidence that the younger players were showing some growth. Like Phil said they didn't have enough talent to get wins but they were doing the right things. Also KP missed games down the stretch.

Next season the team could have a fresh new start without the resistant presence of Melo hovering like a dark cloud. I'm praying that a deal can be made to get Melo out cuz I don't think he's worth the hassle and he's not a positive influence.

So your answer is no? Okay, Just say no we are supposed to go by the eye test.

You are clearly not paying attention if you think the younger players didn't show some growth. Besides what is your point anyway??? What are you trying to get at without actually saying anything?

It's a pretty straightforward question is there any evidence that the young his were playing better? Did they shoot better or grab more boards/ast per 36? Did their off/def rtg improve or maybe their +/- got better.

A number of the young guys played to near or career highs. many were playing double-double or near double-double games. TV analysts expressed a lot of love for Hernangomez. Phil talks glowingly about baker, Randle, Hernangomez, KP, O'Quinn.

What's not to like? Oh, empty stats like melo's? Yeah, in that case, you're right. The kids stink.

He's saying he didn't really watch the games cuz if he did then he would know that the kids did show growth. Arguments like this get a bit silly after a while. It really isn't important because the kids got extended minutes and didn't embarrass themselves. Instead they came together and gained confidence that they can take into the offseason. Anyone watching saw it.


He has a legitimate question. If you go strictly by the eye test, there is the risk you'll just see whatever you want to see.

I imagine Nix would have had charts galore of all kind of stats if they really played better. Maybe they did and he is to tired or simply doesn't want to waste his time that's cool. I was just wondering if there was any evidence to back up the statement of the young guys playing better. I watched the games and participated in most of the game threads but I didn't see anything special other than guys trying hard. Lou Amundson tried hard but usually it results in a crappy all around game. Did the young guys look better at the start of the season or were they better at the end? Just glancing at some of the players numbers a lot of them actually had pretty bad stats according to B-ref. Bad +/-, bad TS%, Def/off rtg, and other lower stats. Ronny Baker scored the ball better tahn the month before but his better is still putrid(47.7% TS%). It seems that his best month was in January when it comes to efficiency, rebounding, Ortg, and he even had a positive +/-. I will say his passing looked good but I always like his passing. I don't see a Hornacek when I watch Ron, I see someone closer to Kirk Hinrich which isn't all bad. Hinrich actually started his career off well but after a few years he wasn't really that effective despite continuing to get time. If Ron can develop his 3pt shot and become a better finisher he might have a chance to stick around. Even if he never becomes an efficient player if he can be a 4+ rebs, 6+ ast, 1.5+ stls, and keep his tovs under 3 I think he will be a nice back up occasional/possible starter.

Funny, I look at those numbers and that is basically what Malcolm Brogdon put up as a rookie. Coming out of college both had similar styles of play and if you look at their measurables they even match up similar in every category. So what stop Baker from being Brogdon? Also, who knows maybe he becomes brogdon like. Then again we need to see if Brogdon can keep his level of play up.

When talking about the younger players there are INTANGIBLE things that I saw that aren't necessarily going to show up in the numbers. Things like decisions with and without the ball. Defensive awareness, cohesion and 2nd effort. Being a bit more patient and less frantic or nervous. Ball and Player movement getting crisper with better timing and execution. Players like Baker and Ndour getting more comfortable and looking smoother offensively.

These things may not move the needle in terms of their stats but you can perceive them visually.

Evidence only matters when you make a thread. Lol.

No! But with such a small sample size and the kids getting extended minutes for the 1st time why would you think numbers were the best way to try to assess how they were progressing. Not everything will show up plus they're still very inexperienced and in some cases not elite talents so what's the point you're really trying to make?

If sample size is an issue why put a 3 game sample size up to prove KP had zero issues with the triangle?

nixluva
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4/17/2017  10:25 AM
yellowboy90 wrote:
nixluva wrote:
yellowboy90 wrote:
nixluva wrote:
yellowboy90 wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
nixluva wrote:
fwk00 wrote:
yellowboy90 wrote:
nixluva wrote:
yellowboy90 wrote:
nixluva wrote:
yellowboy90 wrote:Can someone show me any evidence to the young players playing better to close the season?

Did you watch the games or not??? If you did watch then you don't need any more evidence that the younger players were showing some growth. Like Phil said they didn't have enough talent to get wins but they were doing the right things. Also KP missed games down the stretch.

Next season the team could have a fresh new start without the resistant presence of Melo hovering like a dark cloud. I'm praying that a deal can be made to get Melo out cuz I don't think he's worth the hassle and he's not a positive influence.

So your answer is no? Okay, Just say no we are supposed to go by the eye test.

You are clearly not paying attention if you think the younger players didn't show some growth. Besides what is your point anyway??? What are you trying to get at without actually saying anything?

It's a pretty straightforward question is there any evidence that the young his were playing better? Did they shoot better or grab more boards/ast per 36? Did their off/def rtg improve or maybe their +/- got better.

A number of the young guys played to near or career highs. many were playing double-double or near double-double games. TV analysts expressed a lot of love for Hernangomez. Phil talks glowingly about baker, Randle, Hernangomez, KP, O'Quinn.

What's not to like? Oh, empty stats like melo's? Yeah, in that case, you're right. The kids stink.

He's saying he didn't really watch the games cuz if he did then he would know that the kids did show growth. Arguments like this get a bit silly after a while. It really isn't important because the kids got extended minutes and didn't embarrass themselves. Instead they came together and gained confidence that they can take into the offseason. Anyone watching saw it.


He has a legitimate question. If you go strictly by the eye test, there is the risk you'll just see whatever you want to see.

I imagine Nix would have had charts galore of all kind of stats if they really played better. Maybe they did and he is to tired or simply doesn't want to waste his time that's cool. I was just wondering if there was any evidence to back up the statement of the young guys playing better. I watched the games and participated in most of the game threads but I didn't see anything special other than guys trying hard. Lou Amundson tried hard but usually it results in a crappy all around game. Did the young guys look better at the start of the season or were they better at the end? Just glancing at some of the players numbers a lot of them actually had pretty bad stats according to B-ref. Bad +/-, bad TS%, Def/off rtg, and other lower stats. Ronny Baker scored the ball better tahn the month before but his better is still putrid(47.7% TS%). It seems that his best month was in January when it comes to efficiency, rebounding, Ortg, and he even had a positive +/-. I will say his passing looked good but I always like his passing. I don't see a Hornacek when I watch Ron, I see someone closer to Kirk Hinrich which isn't all bad. Hinrich actually started his career off well but after a few years he wasn't really that effective despite continuing to get time. If Ron can develop his 3pt shot and become a better finisher he might have a chance to stick around. Even if he never becomes an efficient player if he can be a 4+ rebs, 6+ ast, 1.5+ stls, and keep his tovs under 3 I think he will be a nice back up occasional/possible starter.

Funny, I look at those numbers and that is basically what Malcolm Brogdon put up as a rookie. Coming out of college both had similar styles of play and if you look at their measurables they even match up similar in every category. So what stop Baker from being Brogdon? Also, who knows maybe he becomes brogdon like. Then again we need to see if Brogdon can keep his level of play up.

When talking about the younger players there are INTANGIBLE things that I saw that aren't necessarily going to show up in the numbers. Things like decisions with and without the ball. Defensive awareness, cohesion and 2nd effort. Being a bit more patient and less frantic or nervous. Ball and Player movement getting crisper with better timing and execution. Players like Baker and Ndour getting more comfortable and looking smoother offensively.

These things may not move the needle in terms of their stats but you can perceive them visually.

Evidence only matters when you make a thread. Lol.

No! But with such a small sample size and the kids getting extended minutes for the 1st time why would you think numbers were the best way to try to assess how they were progressing. Not everything will show up plus they're still very inexperienced and in some cases not elite talents so what's the point you're really trying to make?

If sample size is an issue why put a 3 game sample size up to prove KP had zero issues with the triangle?


2 Different things! KP and the Kids started getting more minutes without the Melo and Rose domination. It was a window into how they could look with more touches and without the Ball Hogging. Also how they would adjust to not having the crutch of Melo and Rose all the time. It's not a NUMBERS only view and why should it be. This was a FIRST look and naturally they would not be perfect. Yet they did well enough to feel good about how they'd handle it. Now the bigger test would be an entire season, but you have to start somewhere.

Why is it so necessary for empirical data for a test run? We all would expect that over time these young players would get better than they look as rookies or in lead positions for the first time minus Star Vets. This is not an outlandish concept. It's like you want there to be some kind of INSTANT, MASSIVE jump in production or else it's all proof that these players are trash.

nixluva
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4/17/2017  10:42 AM
Just in case there was anyone who hadn't yet seen Phil's Press Conference.

newyorker4ever
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4/17/2017  10:55 AM
s3231 wrote:The biggest mistake Phil has made here was trying to appease Melo this season by getting him veteran help to win immediately. All of the bad moves we've made came through this (e.g. Signing Noah to 4 years, using Lopez asset on Rose, etc.).

Funny how no one is bringing up that before the season, Melo came out and said "it's on us now, the front office did their job."

Well, the players certainly did NOT do their job this season. Phil has faults for sure and I certainly don't agree with everything he has done but for Melo to make it about the franchise not wanting to win is completely ridiculous.

Time to part ways and bring in talented 2-way players that play TEAM ball.

http://nypost.com/2016/07/18/carmelo-anthony-is-gushing-over-these-knicks-thank-you-phil/

I have no problem with pretty much everything Phil said at his presser. The new york media people are morons and just want to make everything Phil ever says look as bad as they can make it look. What's wrong with Phil saying Melo would be better off somewhere else that he can chase a championship?? Nothing at all is wrong with that. He got up there and he spoke the truth which most GM's/presidents are scared to do cause that's just not the way it's been done for however many years. There's always been this thing that certain people in organizations are supposed to answer questions in a certain way and the all answer questions the same way but never just come out and say how they really feel but Phil does and sometimes he does say things that he shouldn't say but at least it's the truth whether that ends up hurting someone's feelings or not it's still the truth.

I love the kind of players he wants to get in here that play both sides of the floor and move the ball and move themselves even when they don't have the ball. So much is made of the triangle because the media have made it into this big thing, not because it doesn't work cause it does work when the player buy in and you have the right players but with how badly it's been for us since Phil has been here it makes the media people look like they're right but they're not right. It hasn't been working because Melo and other players just didn't into it cause they were to busy listening to the media and what they say about the triangle instead of just buying into it as a team. This year it was even worse because we didn't just stay with the triangle from the beginning and sometimes used some triangle and there was a point where we pretty much used no triangle and then we went back to the triangle, it was a mess and we should of just ran it from the beginning or ran one system from the beginning.

So now we start fresh again. It's gonna kinda suck starting again but if we just stick with one system and get the right players on this team it can absolutely work. It's gonna take 2/3/4 years until we really get this team where it needs to be but it will be worth it when we have the team we need and we're consistently winning games and making playoff runs and more.

newyorker4ever
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4/17/2017  11:27 AM
yellowboy90 wrote:
s3231 wrote:
crzymdups wrote:
s3231 wrote:The biggest mistake Phil has made here was trying to appease Melo this season by getting him veteran help to win immediately. All of the bad moves we've made came through this (e.g. Signing Noah to 4 years, using Lopez asset on Rose, etc.).

Funny how no one is bringing up that before the season, Melo came out and said "it's on us now, the front office did their job."

Well, the players certainly did NOT do their job this season. Phil has faults for sure and I certainly don't agree with everything he has done but for Melo to make it about the franchise not wanting to win is completely ridiculous.

Time to part ways and bring in talented 2-way players that play TEAM ball.

http://nypost.com/2016/07/18/carmelo-anthony-is-gushing-over-these-knicks-thank-you-phil/

I somewhat agree. ...but that doesn't mean it wasn't Phil's decision to trade for Rose and sign Noah. He still made the decision.

Also, I would argue his failure with both Fisher and Hornacek as coaches is his real biggest failure. He fired Fisher because Fisher wouldn't let Phil interupt his practices. He has undercut all authority Hornacek has because Hornacek does let him interupt practices. It's a mess and the single biggest problem on this team and it will be here whether Melo is a Knick or not.

Agreed that Phil still made the calls on Noah and Rose. For that, he obviously needs to take responsibility and believe he has. My point is that those decisions were made under the lens of trying to give Melo support to win now.

Agree that he has made mistakes with coaches as well but I think his bigger mistake personally was the "win now mentality to appease Melo." I think we should have focused more on acquiring young studs and accumulating assets to build around Kristaps.

I wish we had explored trading Melo earlier and not waiting this long. In that sense, I wish Phil was more focused in past 2 seasons on how he wanted to build and executing that vision instead of trying to appease Melo.

Fortunately, the moves he made were pretty low risk (with exception of Noah) so we at least still have our picks.

So his idea of support is getting flawed unreliable non defensive players? That's awesome. What a visionary. I guess Melo should have thrown Phil under the bus to start the season and when did Phil take responsibility?

Non defensive players?? Noah was non defensive?? C.Lee is non defensive?? L.Thomas is non defensive?? R.Burgandy is non defensive?? J.Holiday is non defensive?? I actually think he did good of bringing in a good mix os defensive and offensive players to help Melo and there was more than enough talent on this team to make the playoffs easily but they didn't and that was for many reasons including Phil and Melo.

nixluva
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4/17/2017  11:30 AM
newyorker4ever wrote:
s3231 wrote:The biggest mistake Phil has made here was trying to appease Melo this season by getting him veteran help to win immediately. All of the bad moves we've made came through this (e.g. Signing Noah to 4 years, using Lopez asset on Rose, etc.).

Funny how no one is bringing up that before the season, Melo came out and said "it's on us now, the front office did their job."

Well, the players certainly did NOT do their job this season. Phil has faults for sure and I certainly don't agree with everything he has done but for Melo to make it about the franchise not wanting to win is completely ridiculous.

Time to part ways and bring in talented 2-way players that play TEAM ball.

http://nypost.com/2016/07/18/carmelo-anthony-is-gushing-over-these-knicks-thank-you-phil/

I have no problem with pretty much everything Phil said at his presser. The new york media people are morons and just want to make everything Phil ever says look as bad as they can make it look. What's wrong with Phil saying Melo would be better off somewhere else that he can chase a championship?? Nothing at all is wrong with that. He got up there and he spoke the truth which most GM's/presidents are scared to do cause that's just not the way it's been done for however many years. There's always been this thing that certain people in organizations are supposed to answer questions in a certain way and the all answer questions the same way but never just come out and say how they really feel but Phil does and sometimes he does say things that he shouldn't say but at least it's the truth whether that ends up hurting someone's feelings or not it's still the truth.

I love the kind of players he wants to get in here that play both sides of the floor and move the ball and move themselves even when they don't have the ball. So much is made of the triangle because the media have made it into this big thing, not because it doesn't work cause it does work when the player buy in and you have the right players but with how badly it's been for us since Phil has been here it makes the media people look like they're right but they're not right. It hasn't been working because Melo and other players just didn't into it cause they were to busy listening to the media and what they say about the triangle instead of just buying into it as a team. This year it was even worse because we didn't just stay with the triangle from the beginning and sometimes used some triangle and there was a point where we pretty much used no triangle and then we went back to the triangle, it was a mess and we should of just ran it from the beginning or ran one system from the beginning.

So now we start fresh again. It's gonna kinda suck starting again but if we just stick with one system and get the right players on this team it can absolutely work. It's gonna take 2/3/4 years until we really get this team where it needs to be but it will be worth it when we have the team we need and we're consistently winning games and making playoff runs and more.

I agree. It's a process to develop so many home grown young players. We will have quite a few coming back from this year and adding more on top of that. I think what will help next year is that they will have some continuity. Phil was happy with how Jeff had the team playing to close the season. The offense was free flowing and the effort on D picked up. It just proved that this team can play the right way.

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4/17/2017  11:31 AM
Franschesca starts with how much money Phil makes. Thats a clear populist type rant that sets up "what are they paying him for".
some of you really have had a problem with the money from day one.
Some of you wanted more in return for Tyson, etc. Thing is, if you wanted more, you have to take on more contracts.
If Crowder was available, PHil has manned up and admited that was a mistake. its the type all teams make, passing on a guy in hindsight that was not apparent a value play at the moment.
The other thing is how much money Melo makes, and some hate him for that. Its a value statement also based on other players with similar salary.

Does it really matter if the NTC is on Phil or Dolan? Do we all really need articles to validate our views? Nobody hear loves the job phil has done, but its a work in progress. But I do love Phil the person, and I love that he called it all out the other day. Its what makes being a knicks fan kind of fun amid the BS.

Best post was Holfresh breaking down that Lebron and KP liking melo's post was a statement of position that KP hates the triangle. Vs. KP actually saying its something that should have been done all year.
I do know that teams that PHil did not win a chip 9 of the 20 seasons. In his book he chronicled those seasons as well as a coach. If the players don't get on board, it don't happen. Kobe did not believe every year the Lakers had the personel to get it done and he would take it upon himself. Kobe and Phil had notorious clashes. PHil wanted him traded, Kobe wanted PHil gone. Then he wanted Phil to come back. He did, they won.

You dont' hire phil to like him, you hire him to do a job. If you don't like the job he has done in 3 years, you might even say PHil is not happy with that either. But what he has not done is leverage the future to win more now. This team could have been closer to .500 if he did. Maybe not hold players accountable for things that are now public. And by doing so we will never go beyond being a mid pack team.
He is new to the exec game and made a lot of enemies over the years. He is outspoken and critical of his players. Always has been. This is what you get.

HIs pressor, was brutal. It was ugly. He said ugly things. THis is better than saying what everyone wants to hear.

As for KP, who knows where his head is at. Maybe he sees Melo like a big brother always fighing with the parents and eventually he has to leave home. Like a little kid who can't take the arguing. He can still be friends with Melo, and still be a knick. The team is his to take. Phil had voiced his concerns regarding him being too tall for the game and stay healthy. I hated when Phil said he feared him being "shawn Bradley"! Or Ralph Sampson, or Greg oden, or larue Martin, Or Bill walton, or even Yao Ming.......and a longer list of tall guys who had a world of talent but hindered by injury. Kp is like nobody I have ever seen, but that is potential that has yet to be realized.

Yeah, I thimk Melo would be better off on another team. Scathingly abusive words!!!!!! Soft serve Melo......

Phil's press conference

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