nixluva wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:I say let him continue to humiliate himself, let him continue to make us a laughing stock, as long we have kp and willy, we can watch them develop, losing 60 games a yr

WOW! This is a very dishonest post. You know we have 3 picks in this draft and will have other options to improve the team this summer and beyond.

They have the 44th and 58th pick. Are you expecting the roster to be remade with those two picks? I think you have to hope something good comes from one or both but I don't see them as saving Phil's legacy etc.

Now why are you focusing on the two 2nd rd picks? The 1st pick in addition to the 2nd rd picks and possible trade or FA signings! All of the available options are part of this. It's not all on the draft and doesn't stop after this summer.

CrushAlot wrote:

nixluva wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:I say let him continue to humiliate himself, let him continue to make us a laughing stock, as long we have kp and willy, we can watch them develop, losing 60 games a yr

WOW! This is a very dishonest post. You know we have 3 picks in this draft and will have other options to improve the team this summer and beyond.

They have the 44th and 58th pick. Are you expecting the roster to be remade with those two picks? I think you have to hope something good comes from one or both but I don't see them as saving Phil's legacy etc.

Now why are you focusing on the two 2nd rd picks? The 1st pick in addition to the 2nd rd picks and possible trade or FA signings! All of the available options are part of this. It's not all on the draft and doesn't stop after this summer.

Because you said, 'we have three picks'... I don't think there is much value in the 58 th but I hope they get something.

There's as much value as you make of it. This is a very good draft and I see players I like that aren't even in the Mocks. Gaines and the boys have work to do and try to maximize the picks we have.
For all we know they might work a trade to grab another 1st rd pick!!!

CrushAlot wrote:

nixluva wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

nixluva wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:I say let him continue to humiliate himself, let him continue to make us a laughing stock, as long we have kp and willy, we can watch them develop, losing 60 games a yr

WOW! This is a very dishonest post. You know we have 3 picks in this draft and will have other options to improve the team this summer and beyond.

They have the 44th and 58th pick. Are you expecting the roster to be remade with those two picks? I think you have to hope something good comes from one or both but I don't see them as saving Phil's legacy etc.

Now why are you focusing on the two 2nd rd picks? The 1st pick in addition to the 2nd rd picks and possible trade or FA signings! All of the available options are part of this. It's not all on the draft and doesn't stop after this summer.

Because you said, 'we have three picks'... I don't think there is much value in the 58 th but I hope they get something.

There's as much value as you make of it. This is a very good draft and I see players I like that aren't even in the Mocks. Gaines and the boys have work to do and try to maximize the picks we have.
For all we know they might work a trade to grab another 1st rd pick!!!

I think O'Quinn, Melo and Kuz all have a chance of being moved at or around the draft.

Kp is not even remotely close to being ready to carry a team like EWING did from day one, but with phils staff and the triangle, i think he should be good by the time his rookie contract ends, he'll be so comfortable with losing he'll sign up for more.

I could see Rambis using Noah, Willy, and KP in triangle sets, with baker and lee.. we'll be a team to reckon with..Awsome

Does the 3 strike rule apply to phil...Im just asking, i don't really know for sure..

Moonangie wrote:Yet another hater thread. The forum is getting abused by this. Why start yet another one?

My answer...NO. Don't fire anyone. That's the Dolanesque corporatist approach to building. And it accomplishes nothing but a turnstile of mediocrity. Let Phil do his effing job and get us young talent through the draft. Let him build the team. He has not wasted our cap space (Noah has intangible value to the franchise, but is certainly his most questionable move), he has not traded draft picks, he has found young talent and has the team heading in a solid direction. The only problem is that restless NYK fans don't have enough patience to see this through.

Phil Jackson won't be "fired"

There is clearly a power struggle at work here between Melo and Jackson. Both can't survive in NY at the same time anymore. Melo wants to stay in NY for his "branding" Clearly Jackson wants him traded and gone. Both sides have used the press to hatchet the other. This article is a clear and transparent hatchet job on Jackson by clearly a Pro Melo agenda. Smells like Leon Rose and CAA at work again. I mean could you get any more blatant than talking about Zinger "looking up to Melo" Gag.

Clearly both are at fault. Melo refused to play actual team basketball and is a selfish shotjacker who decides defense isn't worth the bother. It's an unprofessional and undignified way to play the game, but that's on him and his ethics. Personally I think the approach is disgusting. Jackson has pushed an offense that just doesn't work and his lack of experience at running a team shows badly.

If Melo wins this war, Jackson will simply be shifted to "another position" in the franchise, while still collecting his checks. If Jackson wins this war, Melo will be hammered in the press over and over until he is traded because he finally waives his NTC. If Melo and Jackson both are on this roster for the next two years, Knicks fans lose. It's like Aliens Vs Predator, whomever wins, we lose.

Here is the most ideal hopeful scenario - Jackson is shifted to a ceremonial role in the franchise but loses all decision making power. The Knicks hire a young GM candidate from a different franchise, from a winning team, someone who actually has experience and has been groomed to be a GM. Melo is traded and this operates as Jackson's last act with the franchise. Odds are a bad contract or close to zero return comes back in any Melo deal.

Both really need to be part of the franchise's past, instead of it's future.

In a toxic power struggle like this, you clip everyone. It's like a mob movie, you just start burying guys in ditches everywhere. Tony LaRussa, Tommy Lasorda, it would have happened with Don Shula and Tom Landry if they relented to it, some guys have a ton of legacy, and those guys you don't fire if you can, you try to shift them to a powerless position. The Giants even wanted to do it with Coughlin, who won two rings for them, they wanted to shift him into a soft role without any power but didn't want him to coach anymore or have GM ability.

You don't fire a Phil Jackson, you do however, seek to replace him.

nykshaknbake wrote:Thing about firing jackson is we need a replacement that's better. I don't know that we have one or that one would want to come here.

Plenty of young and hungry front office types who are 2nd and 3rd in commands for their current franchise would give their right arm to be an NBA GM ANYWHERE. You gotta start somewhere. You make your bones in a place people say you can't win, you can write your own ticket. Theo Epstein has been part of bringing rings to the Red Sox and Cubs, the guy is seen as a miracle worker.

Does he need to be "better"? What the franchise needs is a guy who can make basketball decisions without interference and has some actual background in doing the job. That's it. Hire the guy who is trained and prepared for the job, and leave him alone to do his job. That's it.

The Knicks take the outrageously simple and make it freaking as hard as possible. That part should be the most frustrating part to fans. The sheer stupidity this franchise displays over and over when rebuilding a team in the NBA in the modern era is actually pretty simple. Getting to the point of contention is hard, but just rebuilding it in a fundamentally correct way should not be this difficult.

The franchise needs a young GM who understands immediately that throwing buckets of money at Noah was a horrible idea. How hard is that?

Here is the biggest problem - The Knicks are going to have to eventually do what they should have done anyway BEFORE they hired Jackson, all they did is burn time.

yellowboy90 wrote:So the best thing about Jackson is Gaines JR but you can always keep Gaines Jr just liked they have kept other staff members from previous years. Phil doesn't now how to build rosters and doesn't seem to understand how to put players in the best situations to develop. Why would anyone want to keep Phil is beyond me.

http://nypost.com/2017/03/26/phils-joakim-noah-love-blinded-him-from-the-guide-knicks-need/

Exactly and people justified his ineptitude by stating that Phil had little options. It is clearly that Phil is not doing his homework properly, to not even call Paul Gasol a guy who had thrived in his triangle system and who cost less than Noah is just not right. I’m not saying that the Knicks should be a great team by now, but they surely should have a better roster with a more define system and better direction by now. This is Jackson’s third year and the Knicks don’t have a clear basketball system in place yet, now in year 4 he will push for a full triangle system, IS IN YEAR 4. This is so unacceptable.

Will Melo still be around next season? Who are we getting back? Will Phil give Rose a long term deal? Lots of decisions for Phil to make.

If the outcome is the same, no playoffs, older players taking time from younger players, the Triangle learning curve making things more complicated than they have to be, then yes I would like to see Phil fired along with Mills. Clean slate.

Phil leaves the team is in Mill's hands, and it will be OK. Mills is a very intelligent man who will likely continue the triangle. How do I know? Cuz Phil is not leaving until its installed and I for one am rooting for its success.
If its not, then cross that bridge when we get to it.
Until then, I have to say I like the decisions PHil has made, but im disappointed in the outcomes.
Blame for some of you is how you deal with disappointment.

Keep wishing for a Phil replacement that has no track record of their own.

KnicksFE wrote:

Nalod wrote:We all want the next Theo Epstein or young Cashman. Geeky brainiacs with secret black box metrics who has not track record to sour any discussion.
"Repeal and Replace".........But with no real tangable idea. Do you know who the GM is? Mills, who has been to games and kentucky practice's. LIke other GM's.
If IM president I gather all my scouting reports, look at all the tape that my guys have combed over and let them sell me on who is best and why. Thats what decision makers do.
Mills can't scout eveyone.
Magic gets on TV cuz he is magic.

Phil leaves the team is in Mill's hands, and it will be OK. Mills is a very intelligent man who will likely continue the triangle. How do I know? Cuz Phil is not leaving until its installed and I for one am rooting for its success.
If its not, then cross that bridge when we get to it.
Until then, I have to say I like the decisions PHil has made, but im disappointed in the outcomes.
Blame for some of you is how you deal with disappointment.

Keep wishing for a Phil replacement that has no track record of their own.

Who’s to say that Phil replacement wouldn’t have a track record? Some assistant General Managers play big roles with their franchises, the most important factor is for them to come from a winning franchise. And even if they have little track record, that's better than having Phil’s loosing track record.

I like what the Nets did. They realized the error of their ways, then tapped someone from the best organization in the NBA. And then said run it without interference and for the long haul.

I might take a wager that the nets will get back to the play offs before us, and I probably would bet that they will get to the finals before us!

franco12 wrote:

KnicksFE wrote:

Nalod wrote:We all want the next Theo Epstein or young Cashman. Geeky brainiacs with secret black box metrics who has not track record to sour any discussion.
"Repeal and Replace".........But with no real tangable idea. Do you know who the GM is? Mills, who has been to games and kentucky practice's. LIke other GM's.
If IM president I gather all my scouting reports, look at all the tape that my guys have combed over and let them sell me on who is best and why. Thats what decision makers do.
Mills can't scout eveyone.
Magic gets on TV cuz he is magic.

Phil leaves the team is in Mill's hands, and it will be OK. Mills is a very intelligent man who will likely continue the triangle. How do I know? Cuz Phil is not leaving until its installed and I for one am rooting for its success.
If its not, then cross that bridge when we get to it.
Until then, I have to say I like the decisions PHil has made, but im disappointed in the outcomes.
Blame for some of you is how you deal with disappointment.

Keep wishing for a Phil replacement that has no track record of their own.

Who’s to say that Phil replacement wouldn’t have a track record? Some assistant General Managers play big roles with their franchises, the most important factor is for them to come from a winning franchise. And even if they have little track record, that's better than having Phil’s loosing track record.

I like what the Nets did. They realized the error of their ways, then tapped someone from the best organization in the NBA. And then said run it without interference and for the long haul.

I might take a wager that the nets will get back to the play offs before us, and I probably would bet that they will get to the finals before us!

I totally agree with you, while the Nets are losing a lot of games, Sean Marks in a year has already established a system, a direction for this past poorly managed franchise. Unlike the Knicks, Brooklyn is trying to spend their money on still young developing players that fit their system, not on Broken / past their prime veterans.