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The Knicks are doing KP a disservice in his development...
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holfresh
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3/24/2017  7:55 AM    LAST EDITED: 3/24/2017  8:19 AM
Watching the game last night was rather scary in terms of what the team might look like, post Melo and Rose...But what stood out most was how KP was operating being the lead guy...I don't think the organization is doing enough surrounding him with people working on his development...KP's game need refinement and polish...He needs at least 5 go to moves in spots where he is most comfortable on the court...This kid has so much talent, he can hit from anywhere on the court, and too often, it's off balance...He needs to refine his game to get the spots where his game is automatic, blindfolded...Who in this organization is leading him in that direction??..They have to teach this kid to be a franchise player..From what I'm seeing, it's just scatter shots all over the barn... The only person working with the kid diligently is his brother?? still??..I mean this is the NBA..This is the problem I have with the Knicks organizational infrastructure..It's not developed with players who are vested Knickerbocker basketball..Guys who are here just for the Organization..Most here is just picking up a paycheck...

KP and Willy needs to learn better defensive positioning in the post...Rambis can help with this..But do they trust or listen to Rambis given the current toxic environment??..The way the triangle is being forced on them??..They need a guy like Patrick teaching them how to defend the post...Where they should be before the ball arrives...Teaching KP the nuances in being a franchise player..

Phil is a diva and is worried about his own agenda..He isn't with the team all the time lending advice based on his experiences...We need people in the Organization helping these guys take their game to the next level..Please hire Patrick and Mark Jackson in this Organization...This is on Dolan and he is clueless...Mills should be all over this..
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nyknickzingis
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3/24/2017  8:17 AM    LAST EDITED: 3/24/2017  8:18 AM
I agree he shoots too many off balanced shots and that he should if they rebuild at the very least have one PG who can draw the attention of the defense and find the open man. KP is not a great isolation player. He is becoming a good scorer in one on one but it is still not something you can say is his strong suit. He is still best as a player finisher, where the team is finding him when open or with some space to shoot a jumper.

I'm not concerned with the rest because if the team lets Rose walk and Melo goes via trade, the team is rebuilding and in a real rebuild you have to accept that a 60 loss season is happening. You have to deal with the growing pains.

Kudos to OP this is a good take from him. I may not agree with everything said by OP, but I respect it. Phil is a diva, and I don't care too much if he stays beyond 2019. But I do want Phil to stay for 2 more years, because I think he is the only executive in the league who will take the heat for a rebuild in NY and not flitch. We need to do this rebuild right. No more short cuts.

nyknickzingis
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3/24/2017  8:22 AM
Also KP missed so many easy looks last night. He easily could have been 12-21 or 13-21 in my opinion. He was tired coming of a back to back, all the three pointers were short, and when they usually are it's sign of legs not bending enough on release. I believe the entire team shot the ball poorly which shows how much a back to back can affect a game.

I agree no way will the team win more than 15-20 games without Melo/Rose but it won't be like that. Likely we will sign a player to replace Rose. We will need to get a starting level PG. We will also not trade Melo for crap. If we wanted to, Phil would have traded him already.

The final roster won't be with Baker and Kuz starting. Come on. We'll have some real starting talent next to KP/Willy/Lee. O'Quinn/Noah, Thomas, Kuz, Baker off the bench. 2 real legit NBA level starters at 3 and 1. Now after that you can judge what a team built around KP is about.

Worst case? KP fails as the man. So what? We're better in the 2018 lottery. We'll draft top 2. That's not a bad end game. Either KP shows he can carry a team to close to the playoffs or be competitive, or we'll be bad enough that we'll draft a player that actually can. Win-Win in my book.

Nalod
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3/24/2017  8:24 AM
holfresh wrote:Watching the game last night was rather scary in terms of what the team might look like, post Melo and Rose...But what stood out most was how KP was operating being the lead guy...I don't think the organization is doing enough surrounding him with people working on his development...KP's game need refinement and polish...He needs at least 5 go to moves in spots where he is most comfortable on the court...This kid has so much talent, he can hit from anywhere on the court, and too often, it's off balance...He needs to refine his game to get the spots where his game is automatic, blindfolded...Who in this organization is leading him in that direction??..They have to teach this kid to be a franchise player..From what I'm seeing, it's just scatter shots all over the barn... The only person working with the kid diligently is his brother?? still??..I mean this is the NBA..This is the problem I have with the Knicks organizational infrastructure..It's not developed with players who are vested Knickerbocker basketball..Guys who are here just for the Organization..Most here is just picking up a paycheck...

KP and Willy needs to learn better defensive positioning in the post...Rambis can help with this..But do they trust or listen to Rambis given the current toxic environment??..The way the triangle is being forced on them??..They need a guy like Patrick teaching them how to defend the post...Where they should be before the ball arrives...Teaching KP the nuances in being a franchise player..

Phil is a diva and is worried about his own agenda..He isn't with the team all the time lending advice based on his experiences...We need people in the Organization helping these guys take their game to the next level..Please hire Patrick and Mark Jackson in this Organization...This is on Dolan and he is clueless...Mills should be all over this..

Seems like you have your own agenda which is based on what you don't know. You don't know what the players do all day, how long they work out, who they work with, etc.

An intelligent man knows what he does not know.
Mark Jax and Ewing do not have exclusives on certain information.

holfresh
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3/24/2017  8:28 AM
Nalod wrote:
holfresh wrote:Watching the game last night was rather scary in terms of what the team might look like, post Melo and Rose...But what stood out most was how KP was operating being the lead guy...I don't think the organization is doing enough surrounding him with people working on his development...KP's game need refinement and polish...He needs at least 5 go to moves in spots where he is most comfortable on the court...This kid has so much talent, he can hit from anywhere on the court, and too often, it's off balance...He needs to refine his game to get the spots where his game is automatic, blindfolded...Who in this organization is leading him in that direction??..They have to teach this kid to be a franchise player..From what I'm seeing, it's just scatter shots all over the barn... The only person working with the kid diligently is his brother?? still??..I mean this is the NBA..This is the problem I have with the Knicks organizational infrastructure..It's not developed with players who are vested Knickerbocker basketball..Guys who are here just for the Organization..Most here is just picking up a paycheck...

KP and Willy needs to learn better defensive positioning in the post...Rambis can help with this..But do they trust or listen to Rambis given the current toxic environment??..The way the triangle is being forced on them??..They need a guy like Patrick teaching them how to defend the post...Where they should be before the ball arrives...Teaching KP the nuances in being a franchise player..

Phil is a diva and is worried about his own agenda..He isn't with the team all the time lending advice based on his experiences...We need people in the Organization helping these guys take their game to the next level..Please hire Patrick and Mark Jackson in this Organization...This is on Dolan and he is clueless...Mills should be all over this..

Seems like you have your own agenda which is based on what you don't know. You don't know what the players do all day, how long they work out, who they work with, etc.

An intelligent man knows what he does not know.
Mark Jax and Ewing do not have exclusives on certain information.

I never claimed to be intelligent...Ha..But in all seriousness, have you seen the games???..His game is too wild at this point...Myles Turner's game is much more polished..Myles was getting to his spots easily..I can see Bird is probably working with him...So my agenda is Phil hate???..Ok..I said my peace...

Nalod
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3/24/2017  8:37 AM
You can see bird working with him? Does he, or that you projecting?
KP is not anywhere near a traditional 5. This kid plays more like a 3-4 and I for one don't think he is ready physically to play the 5.
Im ok with him getting minutes there, but I would not judge him there yet as a final piece that is unpolished.
franco12
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3/24/2017  8:55 AM
where is Herb Williams when you need him!

I don't know if anyone is working with him or not- but it sure looks like not.

He started the year well, but has fallen off, especially in terms of his 3pt shooting. He seems to be rushing his shots. There seems to be a lack of confidence - and I would argue part of that is on the system, or systems that the knicks have tried to run this year. Part is on the coaching staff.

When Phil is with Shaq tonight (instead of being at a college game), maybe he can ask Shaq to spend some time with KP? Teach him some foot walk, couple go to moves, how to run the triangle.

Or is that too much to expect?

holfresh
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3/24/2017  8:56 AM    LAST EDITED: 3/24/2017  9:01 AM
Nalod wrote:You can see bird working with him? Does he, or that you projecting?
KP is not anywhere near a traditional 5. This kid plays more like a 3-4 and I for one don't think he is ready physically to play the 5.
Im ok with him getting minutes there, but I would not judge him there yet as a final piece that is unpolished.

You seem defensive..I'm trying to construct or come up with a plan under which KP's game can improve..So I'm not going to be too concerned about where Phil lands in this, sorry...I used the qualifier "probably" with Bird working with Myles because of his improvement and polish, getting in his position quickly on offense, over the last year...Bird was a gym rat, basketball guy, just a hunch...DHow best year as a pro was with Ewing as his assistant..He got hurt but his post moves took them to the Finals...I never saw DHow play like that again after Ewing..That said, I never mentioned a position for KP..It shouldn't matter because he is 7'3'..he should be able to get what he wants and it should be automatic..That is essentially my point...He is working too hard to get his shot off...He misses lots of bunnies and I'm thinking it's repetition from "his spots" that it might be missing, instead of just shooting from anywhere...Just because you can get off a clean shot doesn't mean you should shoot it...

No one is saying he is a final product, I'm talking about improving his game..At some point you have to think about the team and not just Phil...

knicks1248
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3/24/2017  9:08 AM

Losing brings so much doubt, so much negativity, brings down moral, confidence, brings constant changes. You just can't fully develop young players in that kind of atmosphere.

ES
JrZyHuStLa
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3/24/2017  9:20 AM    LAST EDITED: 3/24/2017  9:23 AM
knicks1248 wrote:

Losing brings so much doubt, so much negativity, brings down moral, confidence, brings constant changes. You just can't fully develop young players in that kind of atmosphere.

Of course, it does. But there's a clear difference between the typical Knicks way of losing by overpaying over the hill free agents, trading picks for bums and having no cap flexibility vs losing with a young potential franchise player, having additional lottery picks and flexibility for the future. That's a way of losing that any losing organization will gladly deal with.

StarksEwing1
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3/24/2017  9:26 AM
Obviously we need to put players around KP no question about it. However its not like we have been winning with melo or rose anyway. Its important to remember that KP is 21 years old. They said from day 1 that it might take a few years to see superstar potential. He has still been a success so far despite terrible guard play,team defense,and missteps by management
JrZyHuStLa
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3/24/2017  9:31 AM    LAST EDITED: 3/24/2017  9:33 AM
StarksEwing1 wrote:Obviously we need to put players around KP no question about it. However its not like we have been winning with melo or rose anyway. Its important to remember that KP is 21 years old. They said from day 1 that it might take a few years to see superstar potential. He has still been a success so far despite terrible guard play,team defense,and missteps by management

No question. He has easily shown his glaring strengths in this toxic environment. Has he shown weaknesses too? Sure, he has. But guess what, he gets a pass for it because of the promise he shows and the way he handles his profession. He has shown that he deserves to be the franchise cornerstone and that we should obtain ADDITIONAL young talent despite the losing and confusion to complement or assist his game no matter how clumsy this daily circus is.

Knixkik
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3/24/2017  9:32 AM
nyknickzingis wrote:I agree he shoots too many off balanced shots and that he should if they rebuild at the very least have one PG who can draw the attention of the defense and find the open man. KP is not a great isolation player. He is becoming a good scorer in one on one but it is still not something you can say is his strong suit. He is still best as a player finisher, where the team is finding him when open or with some space to shoot a jumper.

I'm not concerned with the rest because if the team lets Rose walk and Melo goes via trade, the team is rebuilding and in a real rebuild you have to accept that a 60 loss season is happening. You have to deal with the growing pains.

Kudos to OP this is a good take from him. I may not agree with everything said by OP, but I respect it. Phil is a diva, and I don't care too much if he stays beyond 2019. But I do want Phil to stay for 2 more years, because I think he is the only executive in the league who will take the heat for a rebuild in NY and not flitch. We need to do this rebuild right. No more short cuts.


I don't see us losing 60 games. If you replace Rose and Melo with starting caliber talent, and KP makes a year-3 jump, we aren't any worse than this year. Maybe even a little better. Rose is really bad as a starting PG. You replace him with a starting-level PG and you improve with that alone.
GustavBahler
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3/24/2017  9:43 AM
As I said in the game thread, KP looks smoother off the dribble, doing a better job of squaring up for a quick release. Not against off balance shots, its Dirk's bread and butter.

Im more concerned with Porzingis positioning himself in the paint, on offense and defense. Boxing out. One goal for KP over the summer should be to work on imposing his will in the paint. Not trying to snake around players to the rim (arrives late at times) but to get in the paint and establish himself, keeping the other bigs from establishing themselves.

ekstarks94
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3/24/2017  9:44 AM
Knixkik wrote:
nyknickzingis wrote:I agree he shoots too many off balanced shots and that he should if they rebuild at the very least have one PG who can draw the attention of the defense and find the open man. KP is not a great isolation player. He is becoming a good scorer in one on one but it is still not something you can say is his strong suit. He is still best as a player finisher, where the team is finding him when open or with some space to shoot a jumper.

I'm not concerned with the rest because if the team lets Rose walk and Melo goes via trade, the team is rebuilding and in a real rebuild you have to accept that a 60 loss season is happening. You have to deal with the growing pains.

Kudos to OP this is a good take from him. I may not agree with everything said by OP, but I respect it. Phil is a diva, and I don't care too much if he stays beyond 2019. But I do want Phil to stay for 2 more years, because I think he is the only executive in the league who will take the heat for a rebuild in NY and not flitch. We need to do this rebuild right. No more short cuts.


I don't see us losing 60 games. If you replace Rose and Melo with starting caliber talent, and KP makes a year-3 jump, we aren't any worse than this year. Maybe even a little better. Rose is really bad as a starting PG. You replace him with a starting-level PG and you improve with that alone.

Rose is a GOT DAMN CHUCKER......

Gudris
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3/24/2017  9:45 AM
we need to see 5-10 games like this(Melo, Rose and Noah out) to see KP real potential as team leader, one back to back game is not enough
nixluva
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3/24/2017  9:48 AM
Knixkik wrote:
nyknickzingis wrote:I agree he shoots too many off balanced shots and that he should if they rebuild at the very least have one PG who can draw the attention of the defense and find the open man. KP is not a great isolation player. He is becoming a good scorer in one on one but it is still not something you can say is his strong suit. He is still best as a player finisher, where the team is finding him when open or with some space to shoot a jumper.

I'm not concerned with the rest because if the team lets Rose walk and Melo goes via trade, the team is rebuilding and in a real rebuild you have to accept that a 60 loss season is happening. You have to deal with the growing pains.

Kudos to OP this is a good take from him. I may not agree with everything said by OP, but I respect it. Phil is a diva, and I don't care too much if he stays beyond 2019. But I do want Phil to stay for 2 more years, because I think he is the only executive in the league who will take the heat for a rebuild in NY and not flitch. We need to do this rebuild right. No more short cuts.


I don't see us losing 60 games. If you replace Rose and Melo with starting caliber talent, and KP makes a year-3 jump, we aren't any worse than this year. Maybe even a little better. Rose is really bad as a starting PG. You replace him with a starting-level PG and you improve with that alone.

EXACTLY!!! We need 2 Way players with starting quality talent. Players that also want to play TEAM BALL. And obviously we need these young players to more fully develop.

As for KP he's trying to figure out what he is as a player. He's got so much talent that he hasn't really focused on any one thing. He doesn't have a go to move or clear approach to the game yet so that leads to bad shots. He needs to work with more experienced bigs like Dirk, KG and Hakeem.

Knixkik
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3/24/2017  10:09 AM
Gudris wrote:we need to see 5-10 games like this(Melo, Rose and Noah out) to see KP real potential as team leader, one back to back game is not enough

We need to see him struggle though, because it will tell him what he really needs to improve over the offseason. No question he wants to be great. Struggling now as the go-to guy will help him understand how to become great long-term.

ekstarks94
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3/24/2017  10:23 AM
Knixkik wrote:
Gudris wrote:we need to see 5-10 games like this(Melo, Rose and Noah out) to see KP real potential as team leader, one back to back game is not enough

We need to see him struggle though, because it will tell him what he really needs to improve over the offseason. No question he wants to be great. Struggling now as the go-to guy will help him understand how to become great long-term.


Agree 1000%
Knixkik
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3/24/2017  10:44 AM
ekstarks94 wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
Gudris wrote:we need to see 5-10 games like this(Melo, Rose and Noah out) to see KP real potential as team leader, one back to back game is not enough

We need to see him struggle though, because it will tell him what he really needs to improve over the offseason. No question he wants to be great. Struggling now as the go-to guy will help him understand how to become great long-term.


Agree 1000%

And what's amazing is so many here are saying he's not worth building around because of how he is struggling. But struggling now is exactly what he should be doing. It should not be smooth sailing to develop how we want him to. But so many lack the patience, they never learn.

The Knicks are doing KP a disservice in his development...

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