Take a look at how many fouls he ended up with, by the way. Only 2(!), despite at least 3 instances I can remember where he pushed or threw Porzingis, who had established position, out of the way.

I've expressed my feelings frequently about things KP does wrong, though much of this is a product of coaching and defensive/offensive schemes....BUT

You are starting to lose it Briggs...I know you're frustrated, perhaps the realization that Trump is a "Manchurian Candidate" adds to your general frustration, but it might be time for a single Daily Briggs Rant thread on this forum so you don't have post every thought that goes through your mind as a separate thread.

Sorry to insult, but really, bro, you're becoming a caricature poster.

Yeah, I know about the free speech thing, but there are ways of getting a point across without doing it the way you do it.

Peace out...

Knixkik wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

TPercy wrote:KP just gave Gobert 24, so much for being a top defensive player. He needs a lot of work too.

Yeah you could make this same thread about gobert. Picked apart by a 2nd year player.

If you go by stats then you simply did not watch. I like kp but he's no nba star right now or even close. trying to make him the number 1 might even hurt him. I'm not saying anything about patience I'm just posting today's reality. He's not physically in the same class as good nba centers and he has a bit of a tweeter game . I didn't come on here and say trade kp he stinks-- I said he got throttled the last two nights and physically he's multi years away from those two last players. He's not ready for any nba team to classify him as a teams number 1 option

I watched. It seems like you didn't because if you did you would have noticed gobert getting torched by KP outside of the basket area on several occasions. Empty stats, whatever, KP scored an easy 24 mostly on gobert.

When people make these threads claiming KP is getting "demolished" by these top NBA forwards, they fail to take into account that:
1) KP is 80% of the time giving the other team hell on the other side of the floor
2) KP is not guarding the player half the time, so it couldn't possibly be his fault entirely.

crzymdups wrote:KP should look at the physique Rudy Gobert has been able to carve out for himself. That should be KP's goal over the next few years. KP needs to add some lean muscle - not get too big, just stronger. He's still young, so there's time.

I followed Gobert early in his career, too, he has constantly improved over the past four seasons to be the beast he is now. Hope KP can keep developing here.

We know KP works hard so I fully expect him to continue to work on improving his body as well as his skills. That's just who he is. The kid wants to be GREAT! I'm extremely happy that we picked him cuz it's hard to draft guys with the right attitude towards life and the game.

newyorknewyork wrote:

crzymdups wrote:KP should look at the physique Rudy Gobert has been able to carve out for himself. That should be KP's goal over the next few years. KP needs to add some lean muscle - not get too big, just stronger. He's still young, so there's time.

I followed Gobert early in his career, too, he has constantly improved over the past four seasons to be the beast he is now. Hope KP can keep developing here.

Gobert had huge expectations last season. And kind of failed to meet the expectation level set for him last year. Now he is coming into his own. He had many dud games, high turnovers, low %, couldn't hit FTs, couldn't score. Of course he also had monster games mixed in. Briggs would have made threads looking to trade him after some of his games in his 3rd season. Bonn would have been saying how he isn't worth a max contract extension.

Yep, I remember people talking up the Jazz heading into last season as a young team on the rise. They sort of sputtered, but then put it together this season. Partially because of George Hill.

Kinda hoping for their sake they don't lose Gordon Hayward, but I could really see him going to Boston to play for his college coach.

crzymdups wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

crzymdups wrote:KP should look at the physique Rudy Gobert has been able to carve out for himself. That should be KP's goal over the next few years. KP needs to add some lean muscle - not get too big, just stronger. He's still young, so there's time.

I followed Gobert early in his career, too, he has constantly improved over the past four seasons to be the beast he is now. Hope KP can keep developing here.

Gobert had huge expectations last season. And kind of failed to meet the expectation level set for him last year. Now he is coming into his own. He had many dud games, high turnovers, low %, couldn't hit FTs, couldn't score. Of course he also had monster games mixed in. Briggs would have made threads looking to trade him after some of his games in his 3rd season. Bonn would have been saying how he isn't worth a max contract extension.

Yep, I remember people talking up the Jazz heading into last season as a young team on the rise. They sort of sputtered, but then put it together this season. Partially because of George Hill.

Kinda hoping for their sake they don't lose Gordon Hayward, but I could really see him going to Boston to play for his college coach.

Bonn1997 wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

MaulingandAppalling wrote:KP is overrated, it's just that simple. He's a competent young player, but he gets outplayed every game. Certainly can't be the centerpiece of a rebuilding effort - good third or fourth option. Because he's so overrated right now, we could probably trade him for an elite point guard.

Just a bizarre comment. Luckily mavs fans weren't this dumb when it came to dirk, who KP is probably ahead of at the same age.

Statistically, KP is significantly behind Dirk's second year. It's also not wise to assume that any one player will have the same exponential rate of improvement that Dirk had. Why would you?

Wait what?

Dirk at 21 averaged 17/7
KP at 21 averages 18/7

They are almost identical on stats for age 21.

I've done the comparison many times
Nowitzki at 21 better outside shooter KP better rim protector and at drives to basket

FYI, naysayers will point to some advanced stats because it's the end-all-be-all of determining the better player. Today's fans are obsessed with advanced stats because they can always find ones that prove their point.

Dif't infrastructures in place for each player at that point in their careers. Dirk was playing for a future HOF coach and with a future HOF PG. And let's not even mention franchise stability. Still, KP looks good for a second year player and I don't think you'll find more than 5 GMs who'll say he isn't a future building block. But will this be the right environment for him, or any young player, to develop?

The alternative outlook is say KP gets the freedom to put up empty stats and to *praise* Dirk for contributing on a much better team. I'm not sure which outlook is more valid in this case. I wouldn't ignore either.

In 99-00 season, the Mavs finished 40-42. It was their second season with Dirk and Nash. The following year, Dirk and Nash's third, they jumped up to 53 wins. It was Dirk's third season, Nash's fifth overall - he was traded to the Mavs after two years with the Suns, I believe. Nash didn't average double figure points or more than five assists per game until his fifth full season.

I think in terms of roster development, we need to get a good young lead guard in the draft this summer, and then in year 2 or 3, they might be able to make the leap.

The worry I have with the Knicks is that when you hand the keys to a young guard, it seems to take them two to three years to figure it out and come into their own. I think fans here will be patient enough to get to the draft, but I worry there won't be patience once the kid is here starting and making mistakes.

Bonn1997 wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

MaulingandAppalling wrote:KP is overrated, it's just that simple. He's a competent young player, but he gets outplayed every game. Certainly can't be the centerpiece of a rebuilding effort - good third or fourth option. Because he's so overrated right now, we could probably trade him for an elite point guard.

Just a bizarre comment. Luckily mavs fans weren't this dumb when it came to dirk, who KP is probably ahead of at the same age.

Statistically, KP is significantly behind Dirk's second year. It's also not wise to assume that any one player will have the same exponential rate of improvement that Dirk had. Why would you?

Wait what?

Dirk at 21 averaged 17/7
KP at 21 averages 18/7

They are almost identical on stats for age 21.

I've done the comparison many times
Nowitzki at 21 better outside shooter KP better rim protector and at drives to basket

FYI, naysayers will point to some advanced stats because it's the end-all-be-all of determining the better player. Today's fans are obsessed with advanced stats because they can always find ones that prove their point.

Dif't infrastructures in place for each player at that point in their careers. Dirk was playing for a future HOF coach and with a future HOF PG. And let's not even mention franchise stability. Still, KP looks good for a second year player and I don't think you'll find more than 5 GMs who'll say he isn't a future building block. But will this be the right environment for him, or any young player, to develop?

The alternative outlook is say KP gets the freedom to put up empty stats and to *praise* Dirk for contributing on a much better team. I'm not sure which outlook is more valid in this case. I wouldn't ignore either.

Why are you talking like this? What makes you think in such negative terms when by ANY METRIC KP is a promising young player! It's very strange that you're taking this position given what we've endured NOT HAVING 1st rd picks to complain about.

WaltLongmire wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

crzymdups wrote:KP should look at the physique Rudy Gobert has been able to carve out for himself. That should be KP's goal over the next few years. KP needs to add some lean muscle - not get too big, just stronger. He's still young, so there's time.

I followed Gobert early in his career, too, he has constantly improved over the past four seasons to be the beast he is now. Hope KP can keep developing here.

Gobert had huge expectations last season. And kind of failed to meet the expectation level set for him last year. Now he is coming into his own. He had many dud games, high turnovers, low %, couldn't hit FTs, couldn't score. Of course he also had monster games mixed in. Briggs would have made threads looking to trade him after some of his games in his 3rd season. Bonn would have been saying how he isn't worth a max contract extension.

Yep, I remember people talking up the Jazz heading into last season as a young team on the rise. They sort of sputtered, but then put it together this season. Partially because of George Hill.

Kinda hoping for their sake they don't lose Gordon Hayward, but I could really see him going to Boston to play for his college coach.

Would be a franchise killer in some ways...you see your player develop in a way you hoped to see him develop and then he leaves.

Jazz can offer him more money then anyone else in the league and they are finally becoming a playoff team. I would be shocked if he left.

meloshouldgo wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

MaulingandAppalling wrote:KP is overrated, it's just that simple. He's a competent young player, but he gets outplayed every game. Certainly can't be the centerpiece of a rebuilding effort - good third or fourth option. Because he's so overrated right now, we could probably trade him for an elite point guard.

Just a bizarre comment. Luckily mavs fans weren't this dumb when it came to dirk, who KP is probably ahead of at the same age.

Statistically, KP is significantly behind Dirk's second year. It's also not wise to assume that any one player will have the same exponential rate of improvement that Dirk had. Why would you?

Wait what?

Dirk at 21 averaged 17/7
KP at 21 averages 18/7

They are almost identical on stats for age 21.

I've done the comparison many times
Nowitzki at 21 better outside shooter KP better rim protector and at drives to basket

FYI, naysayers will point to some advanced stats because it's the end-all-be-all of determining the better player. Today's fans are obsessed with advanced stats because they can always find ones that prove their point.

It's not today's fans. It's today's top teams. They all have strong metrics departments.

And i bet you can't find a single "metrics guy" employed by an NBA team that doesn't think KP will eventually be more than a 3rd or 4th option. You are proving my original point.

Now you're just making things up IMO. Metrics guys are evidence-based. That means they don't have crystal balls for the future. At best, they'd have a range - they'd discuss how likely it is that he will be a superstar, all-star, solid starter, etc. They're not going to just point to one outcome - like all-star - and say this will happen. Any metrics person will not be pleased with his advanced stats being the same in year 2 as in year 1. (It doesn't bode well but it certainly isn't devastating either.) Anywhere in the full-range is possible. That even includes that he is one of the players who peaks in year 1 and then goes downhill. That's not likely but a metrics person is not going to rule out any possibilities.

So then why predict he can only be a 3rd or 4th option? If you are talking him bein that right now on a winning team I would agree. But if you are predicting his future ceiling then thats way out of place.

BRIGGS wrote:

nixluva wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:He was utterly destroyed two games in a row.
He is not balanced and undid plumed offensively and slow footer and weak defensively.
I'm not sure what position he plays he tries to play like a 3 from either the 4-5 and is but a willing passer. He needs a lot of work.

Gobert worked his way into this after 4 years of NBA seasoning. I had him on my fantasy team 2 years ago when he was a 2nd year player and he played like a bitch and was frustrating to own.

Even with KP trying to find his way and getting owned by Gobert tonight he still dropped 24-7. When KP is in his 4th year like Gobert I expect that same climb in strength, understanding and comfort.

Deandre Jordan didn't bring his game together until his 6th year in the league.

Kp needs a lot of work.

He wasn't even supposed to be able to CONTRIBUTE for years when we drafted him. You F'n know this so CUT IT OUT!!! KP has exceeded early expectations. He wasn't even supposed to be playing center for years because he was so skinny. Give him a chance to fill out for goodness sakes!

He needs multi years of physical work

And what is your point? Don't we all know this?

WaltLongmire wrote:Gobert is stronger, obviously, but scores because of other players on his team, for the most part.

Take a look at how many fouls he ended up with, by the way. Only 2(!), despite at least 3 instances I can remember where he pushed or threw Porzingis, who had established position, out of the way.

I've expressed my feelings frequently about things KP does wrong, though much of this is a product of coaching and defensive/offensive schemes....BUT

You are starting to lose it Briggs...I know you're frustrated, perhaps the realization that Trump is a "Manchurian Candidate" adds to your general frustration, but it might be time for a single Daily Briggs Rant thread on this forum so you don't have post every thought that goes through your mind as a separate thread.

Sorry to insult, but really, bro, you're becoming a caricature poster.

Yeah, I know about the free speech thing, but there are ways of getting a point across without doing it the way you do it.

Peace out...

Walt--honestly there is a LOT to rant about. Yes we are rebuilding(well not really but we can fake news and say we are)--but after the last 3 years do you trust who is doing the grocery shopping? The hope for this franchise really sits in a container of lottery balls. The less we have to think about something--the better it might be for this team.

As a fan you would just hope a 7-3 guy would be able to use brain power with angles instead of strength defending near the rim. He was just so easily blown through the last two games--it was actually disheartening. Also I know and you know he takes a LOT of bad shots nor is he a good ball mover. He really needs to be told to move away from that 34 foot 3 point shot and learn how toi play with more skill and touch inside. Its fine to shoot a 3 but hes all over the place. Jack of all trades master of none.