fishmike wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

TPercy wrote:KP just gave Gobert 24, so much for being a top defensive player. He needs a lot of work too.

Yeah you could make this same thread about gobert. Picked apart by a 2nd year player.

If you go by stats then you simply did not watch. I like kp but he's no nba star right now or even close. trying to make him the number 1 might even hurt him. I'm not saying anything about patience I'm just posting today's reality. He's not physically in the same class as good nba centers and he has a bit of a tweeter game . I didn't come on here and say trade kp he stinks-- I said he got throttled the last two nights and physically he's multi years away from those two last players. He's not ready for any nba team to classify him as a teams number 1 option

Neither was Gobert or Deandre Jordan. Both were well behind where KP is at the exact same times in their career. So if your point is to compare KP vs. the last two centers he's played against how about some context. Except that Briggs.. time and time again you show your context is usually the last 5 minutes of basketball you just watched. You have been doing this for years here.

Its constant knee jerk statements from you. Go tell me how Gobert and Jordan looked at 21 in their sophomore seasons. Guess what.. they needed years also.

You want to draft good players but cry about how far away they are developmentally every time they get beat up on by NBA vets who are older and more experienced?

How about you compare KP's defense to Towns? Or WCS? Or Kaminsky? Or OK4?

I can't see how you turn a blind eye to the horrendous defense by our bigs. Jordan, and gobert were defensive players coming in, they have gotten better offensively ( a little) but they are still very dominating defensive figures.

KP/willy There defensive awareness is so for below, that they will never come close to being even avg defenders. They will get better offensively, but they will be worse than Amare, for sure, amre wasn't even this bad because he was very athletic when he was 20, so that made up for his awareness.

KP/Willy are so bad (together), I don't know how many times the camera flash on JH last night and he could be seen saying WTF are you doing?

And lance Thomas, jesus, his first 5 possessions, he left a wide open Lee on the base line, to challenge Gobert, who blocked or redirected every single attempt. It's some of the lowest basketball IQ I have seen in a while.

BRIGGS wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:I know being Knicks fans that we aren't used to watching the tedious development of young players as they go through there growing pains.

But this is what it looks like.

Yeah we've sucked for 15 years. Actually I'm old enough to have seen Patrick Ewing as a rookie and the development of the Knicks into a nice team for ten years. But we don't have the same management nor do we have Pat Riley

Yeah, but Al Bianchi...

nyknickzingis wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

MaulingandAppalling wrote:KP is overrated, it's just that simple. He's a competent young player, but he gets outplayed every game. Certainly can't be the centerpiece of a rebuilding effort - good third or fourth option. Because he's so overrated right now, we could probably trade him for an elite point guard.

Just a bizarre comment. Luckily mavs fans weren't this dumb when it came to dirk, who KP is probably ahead of at the same age.

Statistically, KP is significantly behind Dirk's second year. It's also not wise to assume that any one player will have the same exponential rate of improvement that Dirk had. Why would you?

Wait what?

Dirk at 21 averaged 17/7
KP at 21 averages 18/7

They are almost identical on stats for age 21.

I've done the comparison many times
Nowitzki at 21 better outside shooter KP better rim protector and at drives to basket

FYI, naysayers will point to some advanced stats because it's the end-all-be-all of determining the better player. Today's fans are obsessed with advanced stats because they can always find ones that prove their point.

Knixkik wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

MaulingandAppalling wrote:KP is overrated, it's just that simple. He's a competent young player, but he gets outplayed every game. Certainly can't be the centerpiece of a rebuilding effort - good third or fourth option. Because he's so overrated right now, we could probably trade him for an elite point guard.

Just a bizarre comment. Luckily mavs fans weren't this dumb when it came to dirk, who KP is probably ahead of at the same age.

Statistically, KP is significantly behind Dirk's second year. It's also not wise to assume that any one player will have the same exponential rate of improvement that Dirk had. Why would you?

Wait what?

Dirk at 21 averaged 17/7
KP at 21 averages 18/7

They are almost identical on stats for age 21.

I've done the comparison many times
Nowitzki at 21 better outside shooter KP better rim protector and at drives to basket

FYI, naysayers will point to some advanced stats because it's the end-all-be-all of determining the better player. Today's fans are obsessed with advanced stats because they can always find ones that prove their point.

Dif't infrastructures in place for each player at that point in their careers. Dirk was playing for a future HOF coach and with a future HOF PG. And let's not even mention franchise stability. Still, KP looks good for a second year player and I don't think you'll find more than 5 GMs who'll say he isn't a future building block. But will this be the right environment for him, or any young player, to develop?

nyknickzingis wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

MaulingandAppalling wrote:KP is overrated, it's just that simple. He's a competent young player, but he gets outplayed every game. Certainly can't be the centerpiece of a rebuilding effort - good third or fourth option. Because he's so overrated right now, we could probably trade him for an elite point guard.

Just a bizarre comment. Luckily mavs fans weren't this dumb when it came to dirk, who KP is probably ahead of at the same age.

Statistically, KP is significantly behind Dirk's second year. It's also not wise to assume that any one player will have the same exponential rate of improvement that Dirk had. Why would you?

Wait what?

Dirk at 21 averaged 17/7
KP at 21 averages 18/7

They are almost identical on stats for age 21.

I've done the comparison many times
Nowitzki at 21 better outside shooter KP better rim protector and at drives to basket

Per game volume stats? That's so 1990s. No team focuses on them now. Dirk was getting double the assists and passing much better. That added up to much better advanced stats.

Bonn1997 wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

MaulingandAppalling wrote:KP is overrated, it's just that simple. He's a competent young player, but he gets outplayed every game. Certainly can't be the centerpiece of a rebuilding effort - good third or fourth option. Because he's so overrated right now, we could probably trade him for an elite point guard.

Just a bizarre comment. Luckily mavs fans weren't this dumb when it came to dirk, who KP is probably ahead of at the same age.

Statistically, KP is significantly behind Dirk's second year. It's also not wise to assume that any one player will have the same exponential rate of improvement that Dirk had. Why would you?

Wait what?

Dirk at 21 averaged 17/7
KP at 21 averages 18/7

They are almost identical on stats for age 21.

I've done the comparison many times
Nowitzki at 21 better outside shooter KP better rim protector and at drives to basket

Per game volume stats? That's so 1990s. No team focuses on them now. Dirk was getting double the assists and passing much better. That added up to much better advanced stats.

While Dirk may have been more complete on the offensive end by a small margin, KP has defensive value being top 3 in the league in overall rim protection. That trumps anything Dirk did. KP struggles defensively as most 21 year olds would, but KP can be considered a legit 2-way player because he has major value on both ends.

MaulingandAppalling wrote:KP is overrated, it's just that simple. He's a competent young player, but he gets outplayed every game. Certainly can't be the centerpiece of a rebuilding effort - good third or fourth option. Because he's so overrated right now, we could probably trade him for an elite point guard.

omfg, now I've heard it all.

knicks1248 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

TPercy wrote:KP just gave Gobert 24, so much for being a top defensive player. He needs a lot of work too.

Yeah you could make this same thread about gobert. Picked apart by a 2nd year player.

If you go by stats then you simply did not watch. I like kp but he's no nba star right now or even close. trying to make him the number 1 might even hurt him. I'm not saying anything about patience I'm just posting today's reality. He's not physically in the same class as good nba centers and he has a bit of a tweeter game . I didn't come on here and say trade kp he stinks-- I said he got throttled the last two nights and physically he's multi years away from those two last players. He's not ready for any nba team to classify him as a teams number 1 option

Neither was Gobert or Deandre Jordan. Both were well behind where KP is at the exact same times in their career. So if your point is to compare KP vs. the last two centers he's played against how about some context. Except that Briggs.. time and time again you show your context is usually the last 5 minutes of basketball you just watched. You have been doing this for years here.

Its constant knee jerk statements from you. Go tell me how Gobert and Jordan looked at 21 in their sophomore seasons. Guess what.. they needed years also.

You want to draft good players but cry about how far away they are developmentally every time they get beat up on by NBA vets who are older and more experienced?

How about you compare KP's defense to Towns? Or WCS? Or Kaminsky? Or OK4?

I can't see how you turn a blind eye to the horrendous defense by our bigs. Jordan, and gobert were defensive players coming in, they have gotten better offensively ( a little) but they are still very dominating defensive figures.

KP/willy There defensive awareness is so for below, that they will never come close to being even avg defenders. They will get better offensively, but they will be worse than Amare, for sure, amre wasn't even this bad because he was very athletic when he was 20, so that made up for his awareness.

KP/Willy are so bad (together), I don't know how many times the camera flash on JH last night and he could be seen saying WTF are you doing?

And lance Thomas, jesus, his first 5 possessions, he left a wide open Lee on the base line, to challenge Gobert, who blocked or redirected every single attempt. It's some of the lowest basketball IQ I have seen in a while.

Their offense still isn't really developed. Gobert's offense last night consisted of alley opps and put back dunks. He imposed his will on a less physically developed KP & Willy and less athletically gifted KOQ.

Kristap had a solid year defensively last year and still has potential in this area. When you watch KP you see that the majority of his problems are that he just isn't physically strong enough yet. Unlike Eddie Curry who was just lazy, and had no awareness. Do you see these traits from KP? I saw KP even though he was getting manhandled at times. He was fighting back as much as he could and trying to compete.

JrZyHuStLa wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

MaulingandAppalling wrote:KP is overrated, it's just that simple. He's a competent young player, but he gets outplayed every game. Certainly can't be the centerpiece of a rebuilding effort - good third or fourth option. Because he's so overrated right now, we could probably trade him for an elite point guard.

I'd have to agree with this. Obviously he could become a franchise player but it's wishful thinking at this point and it's reckless to build a team with the expectation that he becomes one. I have no problem with assuming he can be a solid starter. It's not an issue of patience. I will happily wait for him that to happen. But it's crazy when people think losing doesn't matter and everything bad that Phil's done doesn't matter since we have KP! That's just the imagination making wishful assumptions about his future.

Let's take a look at the 3rd and 4th best players on the top teams.

GS - Green
SA - Mills/Green/Ginobili
HOU - Williams/Anderson
CLE - Love/Korver
BOS - Horford/Crowder
UTA - Hill/Hood

This isn't exactly amazing company. KP is better than ALL of those guys right now in his sophomore year compared to them when they were in their 2nd seasons (maybe Love can be the exception).

To say he WILL BE a 3rd or 4th option in the future is complete idiocy.

+1. Some just say things without putting any thought or logic into them. Thank you for breaking this down. I think where he is at now, the main question will be whether he develops into a true #1 guy, or is a 2nd option on a good team. But 3rd or 4th is just trolling.