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nyknickzingis
Posts: 23029 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 12/8/2015 Member: #6207 |
3/22/2017 7:36 AM LAST EDITED: 3/22/2017 7:38 AM
The problem with Austin Rivers is that outide of when his dad has coached him, he has struggled in the NBA.
He may only be able to play at this level with his dad coaching him. His advanced numbers are 2.1 Win Shares He's basically an average NBA player. I don't know what the Melo trade if it happens will look like, but you would like to think that the Knicks could get more than Austin Rivers. We need another bigger piece to make sense of a trade like that. |
Knixkik
Posts: 34903 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 7/24/2001 Member: #11 USA |
3/22/2017 8:15 AM
nyknickzingis wrote:The problem with Austin Rivers is that outide of when his dad has coached him, he has struggled in the NBA. He struggled before his dad but that was at 19, 20, and 21 years old. He is getting better every year and that's a great sign. He would fit well here in the youth movement. |
fishmike
Posts: 53130 Alba Posts: 1 Joined: 7/19/2002 Member: #298 USA |
3/22/2017 8:37 AM
Rivers is pretty much a warm body. What is interesting is Phil tried to get him as a free agent. I didnt realize they had advanced meetings and Rivers was strongly recruited by the Knicks. So for what its worth there is interest from our side. River's numbers are utterly average and his defensive metrics are not very good.
Doc point blank said the Clippers would have made any of those trades suggested in the paper so they are clearly willing as well. Aside from Rivers (who strikes me as pretty average and probably not as good as Lee) the Clippers have VERY little to offer the Knicks. They owe Toronto their first rounder this year so they would have to do something creative to get us a reasonable asset or two to make this trade happen. "winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
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yellowboy90
Posts: 33942 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 4/23/2011 Member: #3538 |
3/22/2017 12:38 PM
fishmike wrote:Rivers is pretty much a warm body. What is interesting is Phil tried to get him as a free agent. I didnt realize they had advanced meetings and Rivers was strongly recruited by the Knicks. So for what its worth there is interest from our side. River's numbers are utterly average and his defensive metrics are not very good. Phil really likes below average guards for some reason. It makes me doubt that he believes in advance stats. I think he just looks at height, weight, and body type to make his decisions along with using the eye test and box score stats to judge skills. Stuff like this scares me and why I think he is not fit to build a team of players that fit together. Also, Rivers was far from a college phenom but he was a High school phenom. Rivers and Beal would have made a great tandem at UF though but Rivers backed out of his commitment. |
nyk4ever
Posts: 40994 Alba Posts: 12 Joined: 1/12/2005 Member: #848 USA |
3/22/2017 12:46 PM
i have absolutely zero interest in rivers. doesn't strike me as very good, even in todays nba where smaller players are having great success. i see him as a decent rotation player, but nothing else.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
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crzymdups
Posts: 52018 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 5/1/2004 Member: #671 USA |
3/22/2017 1:01 PM
This miiiiiiight be a little bit of counting one's chickens before they hatch.
¿ △ ?
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EnySpree
Posts: 44917 Alba Posts: 138 Joined: 4/18/2003 Member: #397 |
3/22/2017 1:54 PM
crzymdups wrote:This miiiiiiight be a little bit of counting one's chickens before they hatch. Or it could be an amusing thread all up to you Subscribe to my Podcast https://youtube.com/c/DiehardknicksPodcast
https://twitter.com/DiehardknicksPC?t=z5pqPMhdiAZNwzcCGMkiFw&s=09
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newyorknewyork
Posts: 29862 Alba Posts: 1 Joined: 1/16/2004 Member: #541 |
3/22/2017 3:49 PM
He plays fast
https://vote.nba.com/en Vote for your Knicks.
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SupremeCommander
Posts: 33785 Alba Posts: 35 Joined: 4/28/2006 Member: #1127 |
3/22/2017 3:53 PM
EnySpree wrote:crzymdups wrote:This miiiiiiight be a little bit of counting one's chickens before they hatch. Sambakick wrote:
Gives a whole new meaning to "Jazz Hands"
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CrushAlot
Posts: 59764 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 7/25/2003 Member: #452 USA |
3/22/2017 4:02 PM
Fits the pattern. I don't think he is that good of a player.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
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crzymdups
Posts: 52018 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 5/1/2004 Member: #671 USA |
3/22/2017 6:04 PM
SupremeCommander wrote:EnySpree wrote:crzymdups wrote:This miiiiiiight be a little bit of counting one's chickens before they hatch. I took the red pill years ago. ¿ △ ?
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meloshouldgo
Posts: 26565 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 5/3/2014 Member: #5801 |
3/22/2017 7:03 PM
CrushAlot wrote:Fits the pattern. I don't think he is that good of a player. What pattern does it fit? I cannot teach anybody anything. I can only try to make them think - Socrates
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CrushAlot
Posts: 59764 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 7/25/2003 Member: #452 USA |
3/22/2017 7:20 PM
meloshouldgo wrote:CrushAlot wrote:Fits the pattern. I don't think he is that good of a player. Phil making horrible trades and getting pennies on the dollar for his moves. In this case he set the table with the ntc, the huge salary and the huge trade kicker. I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
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meloshouldgo
Posts: 26565 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 5/3/2014 Member: #5801 |
3/22/2017 7:24 PM
CrushAlot wrote:meloshouldgo wrote:CrushAlot wrote:Fits the pattern. I don't think he is that good of a player. Or maybe certain dollars arent worth a dollar anywhere except in the dep recesses of the minds of certain Knicks fans. Please elaborate on what value is available in trade for Melo. Did any of the teams even think he was worth a first round pick? NOPE. I cannot teach anybody anything. I can only try to make them think - Socrates
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CrushAlot
Posts: 59764 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 7/25/2003 Member: #452 USA |
3/22/2017 7:30 PM
meloshouldgo wrote:Melo was given a contract that is almost impossible to trade. Melo without the kicker, and ntc is very movable. Not sure why he was given so much by Phil but it fits a pattern of a guy that still thinks he knows more than everybody else making mistakes.CrushAlot wrote:meloshouldgo wrote:CrushAlot wrote:Fits the pattern. I don't think he is that good of a player. You don't get it. I am fine with Melo being moved. It is just a shame that the guy running things turned him into a player that it will be very hard to get anything for because of the ridiculous ntc and trade kicker he was given. I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
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meloshouldgo
Posts: 26565 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 5/3/2014 Member: #5801 |
3/22/2017 7:51 PM LAST EDITED: 3/22/2017 7:57 PM
CrushAlot wrote:meloshouldgo wrote:Melo was given a contract that is almost impossible to trade. Melo without the kicker, and ntc is very movable. Not sure why he was given so much by Phil but it fits a pattern of a guy that still thinks he knows more than everybody else making mistakes.CrushAlot wrote:meloshouldgo wrote:CrushAlot wrote:Fits the pattern. I don't think he is that good of a player. You are fine with Melo being moved so what exactly is your issue? What do you think we should be getting back in return? Steph Curry? Can you name one team in the NBA that would give up anything better than Austin Rivers for Melo even if the NTC and Kicker were off the table? How many teams actively pursued Melo in the offseason two years ago when he was an FA? Why is the NTC and Kicker a problem, if he is so valuable don't you think those teams would want him for at least two years? So what exactly is the problem? I cannot teach anybody anything. I can only try to make them think - Socrates
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CrushAlot
Posts: 59764 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 7/25/2003 Member: #452 USA |
3/22/2017 8:07 PM
meloshouldgo wrote:He gets to choose where he wants to go. He wants a contender but most cannot acquire him because of their cap situation or because they have gone all in and don't have picks or young players to send back. His trade kicker makes his already outrageous salary extremely hard to trade. So right away you have diminishing returns created by the ntc and trade kicker. Add to that the fact that the guy trying to trade him has made it public that he wants to move him, has trashed him in the media and has a history of getting pennies on the dollar and the return doesn't look good for the Knicks. In regards to teams giving up something for Melo if he didn't have the ntc and trade kicker, I believe there would be a lot. It opens the market. Currently there are two or three teams that he might consider. I think the Knicks should be getting a lot more than Austin Rivers and matching salary contracts.CrushAlot wrote:meloshouldgo wrote:Melo was given a contract that is almost impossible to trade. Melo without the kicker, and ntc is very movable. Not sure why he was given so much by Phil but it fits a pattern of a guy that still thinks he knows more than everybody else making mistakes.CrushAlot wrote:meloshouldgo wrote:CrushAlot wrote:Fits the pattern. I don't think he is that good of a player. I have posted this article from a Clippers blog where the writer took an in depth look at what it would take to get Melo and make it work with the Clipper's cap at the deadline but I will post it again as it illustrates just how complex Phil made Melo's deal to trade when you limit teams to the players choice and give a huge trade kicker. The author suggests in one scenario that Melo might waive the trade kicker that Phil gave him. Do you think that is going to happen? First of all, Anthony has a trade kicker worth 15% of his remaining contract. For 41 more games this year and 82 games each of the next two years, Anthony is scheduled to make $66,451,590. 15% of that salary is $9,967,739, and because the final year of Anthony’s deal is following an early termination option, that bonus must be split between the two guaranteed years of his contract. That extra $4,983,869 this year moves his salary up to $29,543,249. In order to match that salary, they’d have to send out about $23,554,600.http://www.clipsnation.com/2017/1/21/14344586/nba-trade-rumors-carmelo-anthony-clippers-knicks-bonus-jamal-crawford-austin-rivers I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
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meloshouldgo
Posts: 26565 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 5/3/2014 Member: #5801 |
3/22/2017 8:58 PM LAST EDITED: 3/22/2017 8:59 PM
The article only talks about how bad the Clippers cap situation is. Phil didn't limit Melo's market to the Clippers Melo did. You can spin that how you like, but no dice.
Like I said if teams thought he was valuable they would take him on for two years and the kicker would be a non issue. Problem is they don't think he is that valuable, no one has yet named one team willing to trade a starter that would be of value for a young rebuilding team. NOT ONE. It's because net negative players aren't valued as swaps for potential starters for years to come, the only price they'll fetch are bad contracts or question marks. So yes, I'll be happy with Austin Rivers straight up for Melo. I would be happy with a bag of M&Ms, getting him off the roster is value enough for me and for the future of the team. As for Phil, I have always said giving Melo any contract was a horrible idea. The most I would have offered him was $80MM for 5 years take it or go jump. And yes I said that during that off season. But I also think Phil was trying to get full control of the Knicks and keeping Melo on Melo's terms was part of the price he had to pay Dolan. That's conjecture on my part and we will never know. But I don't think Phil would have wanted Melo that badly or just given him the NTC to look good. You don't win 11 rings by being STOOPID, just ask Melo he is still working on ring number 1, but he has STOOPID down pat. I am happy that Phil is at least trying to rebuild the franchise from ground up the only way possible in NY. If he didn't keep Melo and try to get players around him, he would have been fired years ago - every Knicks fan already knows this. But Phil is still here and that's because he took a strategy of letting Melo play out his course while he(Phil) rebuilds the team. Phil has drafted two first round talents with one first round pick. He has got solid vets like Lance, Holiday and Lee who can all be part of the team going forward. And he is positioned to draft another starter for the future. I don't expect every draft pick to be a home run and I don't do revisionist history. I am willing to be patient. I honestly don't care if Melo stays or goes as long as the team maintains the right focus. Draft good high IQ players and build a culture of playing team first system basketball. For that I am grateful to Phil.
I cannot teach anybody anything. I can only try to make them think - Socrates
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CrushAlot
Posts: 59764 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 7/25/2003 Member: #452 USA |
3/22/2017 9:06 PM
meloshouldgo wrote:The article only talks about how bad the Clippers cap situation is. Phil didn't limit Melo's market to the Clippers Melo did. You can spin that how you like, but no dice.Phil is rebuilding by accident. It hasn't been his intent. In regards to Melo saying where he will accept a trade, that is his right because Phil gave him that and a trade kicker. You don't like Melo I get that. But don't let your hate for him blind you to how inept Phil has been. Maybe the fourth time is the charm with the resets but the 17-18 season hasn't started yet and he has already undermined his coach again. I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
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