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Shaq blames Melo, Rose and Knicks players not Triangle
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nyknickzingis
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3/22/2017  7:46 AM    LAST EDITED: 3/22/2017  7:51 AM
Shaq's point is basically that the younger players don't have egos and buy in. Look at Kristaps. He has a ego I'm sure where he wants to become a superstar or make a name for himself, he has a level that is respected around the league, but he does not whine about the Triangle. He quickly adjusts to it and tries to run it or play within it's scheme. He was brought up playing that way in Europe. There is no time to complain, you follow the plan and you buy in. If it doesn't work, at season's end you can voice your concerns. The coach's system is not up for debate. You as a professional are supposed to follow it. If things aren't what you want, maybe you can sit down with the coaches and talk about tweaks you need. This is what Shaq is saying. That when the Lakers struggled with the Triangle, he and Kobe looked at themselves in the mirror and realized they could do better. That is when it clicked.

With Melo, and then Rose, you sense they never bought in to Hornachek. I've watched this season very closely. I don't think Rose had a good relationship with Horny at all. Melo, he doesn't even want to say the word Triangle. He is so used to what he's already been comfortable in, that changing his game or transforming now is seen as impossible. Rose is even worse than Melo in that he hates changing anything. He won;t even attempt a 3 point shot !

I think Melo and Rose could have bought in and done better. But we'd still be a pretty average team. We don't have the defensive talent to be a contender. We are likely a lower playoff seed that loses in round 1. Even if Melo and Rose buy in. So this is actually a blessing. We now know that we should not keep Rose. We know we have to trade Melo. We will draft a top 6/7 pick in the draft. We will look to rebuild.

Sometimes things happen for a reason. This season all the drama, all the issues with coaching and players, I think it will make the Knicks better in the longrun. I think a player like KP will see this season and realize why playing team ball, playing hard on defense and playing within a system is important to his success as a player. I'm beyond the blame game. No hard feelings for Melo, Rose, Hornachek or anyone on the team. Crap happens. It didn't work out. But the Knicks future can still be bright if they draft well, trade Melo or let him walk in 2018.

I'm more excited about this team's future than I was 4 months ago. We're going to commit by force to rebuilding. Something that has needed to be done for almost 2 decades. We're going lottery this year, we'll likely trade Melo and go lottery again next year. Stock up, open more capspace and when KP, Willy and the 2017/18 lotto pick are more ready, we'll be a damn good team in a few years. Not just for a year or two, but like for 5-7 years. That's what we needed to do for a long time now.

AUTOADVERT
jrodmc
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3/22/2017  9:50 AM
nixluva wrote:
holfresh wrote:
nixluva wrote:
holfresh wrote:Who cares anyway...Organization won't recover from this for a long time...We will be a lottery team for the next few years...So we need to acquire talent...Hope we find a qualified GM to do the job...

And you accused me of being childish? The organization can recover quite well from not having Melo or Rose for that matter. They no longer play winning basketball. They're net negative players and they kill team play. These are the facts.


You are a child at times..You can't see beyond Melo Rose and Phil...

I talk about Melo and Rose because they quite literally don't play winning basketball. If you could make the case that they do play winning basketball I'd love to see it. They have personal production but it's all empty from a team perspective.

Not for nothing, but who on the knicks is playing winning basketball right now? And while you're busy thinking about how Ron Baker and BillyH are joining KP in the HOF in the next three seasons, exactly how many games has the team won without everyone's favorite empty personal production player?

jrodmc
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3/22/2017  10:05 AM
TripleThreat wrote:
nyknickzingis wrote:Lots of quotes from Shaq

Best bit was this

“If you look at how the second team runs the triangle, guys who don’t have a lot of experience in the game and a lot of habits, they ran a lot of it late in the fourth quarter and got a couple of backdoor plays,’’ O’Neal said. “It definitely does work. Look at the guys, when Phil put this team together, I was liking it: Porzingis, Carmelo, Rose, [Joakim] Noah. I said, ‘OK, it’s going to work if they embrace the triangle. I like it.’ But again, the ball can never stop


I think it's some of both.

Some of the players just aren't playing team basketball. The younger players or the limited players, you have to shade that a little. Some players just don't understand yet HOW to play a certain way. Some players don't have the SKILL to play a certain way.

Melo and Rose just don't care. This is on the players side. If you just don't care, that's on you.

Here's a real life example. Married guy finds out his wife is banging some guy at her job. She's a cheating whore. Guy can decide to just leave her, say nothing, exit as clean as he can or guy can cheat back and rub it in his wife's or future ex wifes face.

In response A, the guy comes to terms that he might be in a horrible situation, but nothing, no one, can make him surrender his dignity. Only he can choose to give that up. And that two wrong don't make a right. Players who operate like this are professionals in my book. Good team, bad team, good coach, bad coach, good franchise, bad franchise - Play the game the right way. Don't let circumstance dictate your reaction

In response B, the guy decides two wrongs make a right. If he's not getting what he wants, then it doesn't matter that he does something bad to someone else, just using their flaws and harm inflicted as an excuse to feel justified in the behavior. This is a toxic person doing toxic things against themselves. These are the players who think Dolan is an idiot, the coach I hate, the system is stupid, so why should I even bother to try on defense?

One of the thing I really love about David Lee was, as a Knick, he gave everything he had, night after night. Even if the team around him wasn't so great, even if the future looked bleak, even if the coaching was mindless, even if the franchise seemed like a gigantic mess.

If a player gives everything he has, and the team loses, well he did his best. What more can I ask of him? When a player however just doesn't care and rationalizes being a selfish player, to me, that's undignified. Take the team out of it, you just don't even respect yourself at that point.

How you react says more about you than your direct actions, and your actions say everything about you.

It's not easy to turn the other cheek. To forgive. To show social grace when insulted. But it say something about you. When Melo refuses to play team ball and refuses to play defense, to me, it's undignified. It's unprofessional. It says something about his character. It says he doesn't deserve the honor of wearing a Knicks jersey.

Holy ****. Holding up NoDLee, He-who-ran-away-from-the-paint-any-time-someone-might-dunk as the epitome of being a Knick. It's come to this.

Your brain on Melohate.
It makes you love a 2 week wonder journeyman guard who ends up being a...journeyman guard.
It makes you pine for being Denver. Then it makes you pine for being Indiana. Then it makes you pine for Philly. Or, Brooklyn.
It makes you think you'd have a few chips already if we had just watched Gallo and the Mayor and Moz mature and become... mediocre.
It now makes you dream of seeing David Lee, that tremendous 2 way player who couldn't and wouldn't guard the lane against a rolling tree stump.

Yes, I'd rather watch a journeyman forward than the franchise's leading scoring machine. I'd rather remember DLee moving at the speed of light out of posterization range than Melo diving into chairs or scoring 62 points or being among the league leaders in clutch shooting. Or being the only one on the floor doing any level of anything the last time we got to the second round of the playoffs. Or won a division.

Because none of that [b]****[\b] deserves the honor of wearing the jersey. Especially when no other HOF players feel it's worth their time.

I've finally seen the light.

Zebo13
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3/22/2017  11:25 AM
"It's about Jims and Joes not X's and O's" - Charles Barkley
StarksEwing1
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3/22/2017  11:33 AM
jrodmc wrote:
nixluva wrote:
holfresh wrote:
nixluva wrote:
holfresh wrote:Who cares anyway...Organization won't recover from this for a long time...We will be a lottery team for the next few years...So we need to acquire talent...Hope we find a qualified GM to do the job...

And you accused me of being childish? The organization can recover quite well from not having Melo or Rose for that matter. They no longer play winning basketball. They're net negative players and they kill team play. These are the facts.


You are a child at times..You can't see beyond Melo Rose and Phil...

I talk about Melo and Rose because they quite literally don't play winning basketball. If you could make the case that they do play winning basketball I'd love to see it. They have personal production but it's all empty from a team perspective.

Not for nothing, but who on the knicks is playing winning basketball right now? And while you're busy thinking about how Ron Baker and BillyH are joining KP in the HOF in the next three seasons, exactly how many games has the team won without everyone's favorite empty personal production player?

are you a knick or melo fan? Look i have no problem with you defending melo but you seem to criticize players like KP and Willy for petty reasons. Like it or not they are a big part of our future
nixluva
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3/22/2017  11:45 AM
StarksEwing1 wrote:
jrodmc wrote:
nixluva wrote:
holfresh wrote:
nixluva wrote:
holfresh wrote:Who cares anyway...Organization won't recover from this for a long time...We will be a lottery team for the next few years...So we need to acquire talent...Hope we find a qualified GM to do the job...

And you accused me of being childish? The organization can recover quite well from not having Melo or Rose for that matter. They no longer play winning basketball. They're net negative players and they kill team play. These are the facts.


You are a child at times..You can't see beyond Melo Rose and Phil...

I talk about Melo and Rose because they quite literally don't play winning basketball. If you could make the case that they do play winning basketball I'd love to see it. They have personal production but it's all empty from a team perspective.

Not for nothing, but who on the knicks is playing winning basketball right now? And while you're busy thinking about how Ron Baker and BillyH are joining KP in the HOF in the next three seasons, exactly how many games has the team won without everyone's favorite empty personal production player?

are you a knick or melo fan? Look i have no problem with you defending melo but you seem to criticize players like KP and Willy for petty reasons. Like it or not they are a big part of our future

SMDH 😡 I don't get some Knicks fans being so negative towards our young Prospects but seemingly supportive of guys like Melo and Rose who aren't showing they deserve to be part of our future!

Asking how many games we've won without Melo seems odd cuz we haven't won a lot WITH Melo!!! It's time to move on! As frustrating as it has been the one HUGE saving grace is that we have our pick and at least a shot at adding another core player this summer.

StarksEwing1
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3/22/2017  11:50 AM
nixluva wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
jrodmc wrote:
nixluva wrote:
holfresh wrote:
nixluva wrote:
holfresh wrote:Who cares anyway...Organization won't recover from this for a long time...We will be a lottery team for the next few years...So we need to acquire talent...Hope we find a qualified GM to do the job...

And you accused me of being childish? The organization can recover quite well from not having Melo or Rose for that matter. They no longer play winning basketball. They're net negative players and they kill team play. These are the facts.


You are a child at times..You can't see beyond Melo Rose and Phil...

I talk about Melo and Rose because they quite literally don't play winning basketball. If you could make the case that they do play winning basketball I'd love to see it. They have personal production but it's all empty from a team perspective.

Not for nothing, but who on the knicks is playing winning basketball right now? And while you're busy thinking about how Ron Baker and BillyH are joining KP in the HOF in the next three seasons, exactly how many games has the team won without everyone's favorite empty personal production player?

are you a knick or melo fan? Look i have no problem with you defending melo but you seem to criticize players like KP and Willy for petty reasons. Like it or not they are a big part of our future

SMDH 😡 I don't get some Knicks fans being so negative towards our young Prospects but seemingly supportive of guys like Melo and Rose who aren't showing they deserve to be part of our future!

Asking how many games we've won without Melo seems odd cuz we haven't won a lot WITH Melo!!! It's time to move on! As frustrating as it has been the one HUGE saving grace is that we have our pick and at least a shot at adding another core player this summer.

yeah im not telling him he shouldnt support his guy. I just feel he is bashing our young core because they are gonna the focus now
nixluva
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3/22/2017  12:01 PM
StarksEwing1 wrote:
nixluva wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
jrodmc wrote:
nixluva wrote:
holfresh wrote:
nixluva wrote:
holfresh wrote:Who cares anyway...Organization won't recover from this for a long time...We will be a lottery team for the next few years...So we need to acquire talent...Hope we find a qualified GM to do the job...

And you accused me of being childish? The organization can recover quite well from not having Melo or Rose for that matter. They no longer play winning basketball. They're net negative players and they kill team play. These are the facts.


You are a child at times..You can't see beyond Melo Rose and Phil...

I talk about Melo and Rose because they quite literally don't play winning basketball. If you could make the case that they do play winning basketball I'd love to see it. They have personal production but it's all empty from a team perspective.

Not for nothing, but who on the knicks is playing winning basketball right now? And while you're busy thinking about how Ron Baker and BillyH are joining KP in the HOF in the next three seasons, exactly how many games has the team won without everyone's favorite empty personal production player?

are you a knick or melo fan? Look i have no problem with you defending melo but you seem to criticize players like KP and Willy for petty reasons. Like it or not they are a big part of our future

SMDH 😡 I don't get some Knicks fans being so negative towards our young Prospects but seemingly supportive of guys like Melo and Rose who aren't showing they deserve to be part of our future!

Asking how many games we've won without Melo seems odd cuz we haven't won a lot WITH Melo!!! It's time to move on! As frustrating as it has been the one HUGE saving grace is that we have our pick and at least a shot at adding another core player this summer.

yeah im not telling him he shouldnt support his guy. I just feel he is bashing our young core because they are gonna the focus now

AND THE YOUNG PLAYERS SHOULD BE THE FOCUS NOW!!! Haven't we dedicated enough time and money in these vets only to fail? ENOUGH already! I'm done with selfish, lazy, stubborn players like Melo and Rose!!! This was an opportunity for them to step up and LEAD and they both failed.

It would be one thing if Melo and Rose were busting their tails off, being vocal leaders, fully buying in and passing to the younger players in order to help them excel, but they've done the COMPLETE OPPOSITE!!!

TPercy
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3/22/2017  12:38 PM
Some great points made here. My main concern that others have voiced is that if we keep flipping the roster every year,then how do the guys build the necessary chemistry together to make the triangle functional?
In addition, Phil's contract is up in two years, so what happens to the triangle then?
If the new guy comes along who is to say he keeps it?
Let's say we get a pick who is incredibly talented but may not be triangle oriented?


This is not me bashing the system, I like multiple plays the triangle has to offer, but is it a plausible system moving forward...

The Future is Bright!
Moonangie
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3/22/2017  12:54 PM
nixluva wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
nixluva wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
jrodmc wrote:
nixluva wrote:
holfresh wrote:
nixluva wrote:
holfresh wrote:Who cares anyway...Organization won't recover from this for a long time...We will be a lottery team for the next few years...So we need to acquire talent...Hope we find a qualified GM to do the job...

And you accused me of being childish? The organization can recover quite well from not having Melo or Rose for that matter. They no longer play winning basketball. They're net negative players and they kill team play. These are the facts.


You are a child at times..You can't see beyond Melo Rose and Phil...

I talk about Melo and Rose because they quite literally don't play winning basketball. If you could make the case that they do play winning basketball I'd love to see it. They have personal production but it's all empty from a team perspective.

Not for nothing, but who on the knicks is playing winning basketball right now? And while you're busy thinking about how Ron Baker and BillyH are joining KP in the HOF in the next three seasons, exactly how many games has the team won without everyone's favorite empty personal production player?

are you a knick or melo fan? Look i have no problem with you defending melo but you seem to criticize players like KP and Willy for petty reasons. Like it or not they are a big part of our future

SMDH 😡 I don't get some Knicks fans being so negative towards our young Prospects but seemingly supportive of guys like Melo and Rose who aren't showing they deserve to be part of our future!

Asking how many games we've won without Melo seems odd cuz we haven't won a lot WITH Melo!!! It's time to move on! As frustrating as it has been the one HUGE saving grace is that we have our pick and at least a shot at adding another core player this summer.

yeah im not telling him he shouldnt support his guy. I just feel he is bashing our young core because they are gonna the focus now

AND THE YOUNG PLAYERS SHOULD BE THE FOCUS NOW!!! Haven't we dedicated enough time and money in these vets only to fail? ENOUGH already! I'm done with selfish, lazy, stubborn players like Melo and Rose!!! This was an opportunity for them to step up and LEAD and they both failed.

It would be one thing if Melo and Rose were busting their tails off, being vocal leaders, fully buying in and passing to the younger players in order to help them excel, but they've done the COMPLETE OPPOSITE!!!

The truth stings, so the Melo lover in him feelin the pain. But you're 100% right Nix, these two non-leaders have done nothing to help lift the team and gain wins except for what they know - scoring in ISO.

Time to move on and build an actual, ya know, TEAM.

nyknickzingis
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3/22/2017  1:02 PM    LAST EDITED: 3/22/2017  1:07 PM
TPercy wrote:Some great points made here. My main concern that others have voiced is that if we keep flipping the roster every year,then how do the guys build the necessary chemistry together to make the triangle functional?
In addition, Phil's contract is up in two years, so what happens to the triangle then?
If the new guy comes along who is to say he keeps it?
Let's say we get a pick who is incredibly talented but may not be triangle oriented?


This is not me bashing the system, I like multiple plays the triangle has to offer, but is it a plausible system moving forward...


I don't think the team is ever running the Triangle exclusively. We'll be running Triangle along with the other stuff Hornachek brings. The reason the team is running the Triangle now (in my opinion) is that they want to be ahead of the curve NEXT season. They don't want to waste training camp and alot of practice on the Triangle next season. I think the offense will be what it is, the Triangle when they have time otherwise quick secondary breaks/early offense as well as pick and roll.

What we need to remember is Willy, KP, Thomas, Noah, O'Quinn, Kuz, Lee, Holiday, Baker, Randle all eiter will be back or are under contract so likely have a great chance many of them are back. In which case, having the Triangle experience now gives them an edge heading into next season.

If Phil wanted Tri exclusive he would have hired Rambis. He hired Horny because Horny will mix in other aspects as well as modernize the Triangle.

As for after Phil, I think it depends on the success the team has with the Triangle in KP's and other young player's development. If the young players get better and better in it, if we become a Spurs like organization that can execute offense well regardless, then I think it sticks. If not, there will be a change. However I don't mind we are trying to go international and more Spurs like. I just hope Phil goes all in now and moves Melo, and doesn't bring in players like Rose. I hope everyone learned their lesson. The Spurs are who they are because of also the players they pick. No ball stoppers. No point guards who are thinking about free agency ahead of the team. Phil has to find a way to get that culture going. He hasn't done enough. He's got to fully invest into his belief in this system with the talent he has. Some talent just can not transform. For instance the Spurs would never sign Melo to a NTC and make him believe he would be their Jordan. The Spurs are an offense clinic. That's what you can do with talent like Willy, KP, whomever we continue to draft. These players can become players that are outstanding at just executing. However Phil has to stop with the vets transforming belief. Sure if he was coaching maybe he could get them to adapt, buy in etc. He has the rings and coaching greatness. You can't expect Fisher, Hornachek or anyone like that to come in and get these vets to transform. They don't have the proven accolades of Phil nor the coaching greatness. Make it simple. Draft talent to play and develop in the system (Like we did with KP/Willy). Get younger players in free agency who will also adjust and adapt. Go all in, like the Spurs have.

crzymdups
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3/22/2017  1:03 PM
Can't wait to bump this thread next year so we can compare to whoever Shaq is blaming for the Triangle not working.
¿ △ ?
nyknickzingis
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3/22/2017  1:09 PM    LAST EDITED: 3/22/2017  1:13 PM
crzymdups wrote:Can't wait to bump this thread next year so we can compare to whoever Shaq is blaming for the Triangle not working.

I don't think they'll be running Triangle as much next year as they are now. I think it goes back to what it was at the start of the season, maybe a bit more. I don't believe they are going to be strictly a Triangle team.

Even so, hasn't KP been much better since we ran the Triangle? His outside shots suck, but that's on him, he's not hitting the wide open looks from 3 and long 2's. However he's getting the ball and getting into much much better spots since we went to Triangle. Willy, as well, gets lots of looks. The offense is really good for bigs (that's why Shaq loves it) and role players that like to spot up and cut back door. However it sucks for ball dominant guards or wings, which is why I think talent fitting is a real issue.

Hornachek's original plans were to have the team be a quick firing secondary break team that was able to get open looks early in a possession. The problem? Don't have the young fresh legs or athleticism for that. We don't have DeAndre Jordan or Blake. We don't have a hyper athletic wing like Giannis. Hard to be that sort of team with the talent we have.

But I'm sure we will be running the Triangle less next season than currently. Probably closer to where it was early in the season. Somewhere in between the two.

crzymdups
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3/22/2017  1:14 PM
nyknickzingis wrote:
crzymdups wrote:Can't wait to bump this thread next year so we can compare to whoever Shaq is blaming for the Triangle not working.

I don't think they'll be running Triangle as much next year as they are now. I think it goes back to what it was at the start of the season, maybe a bit more. I don't believe they are going to be strictly a Triangle team.

Even so, hasn't KP been much better since we ran the Triangle? His outside shots suck, but that's on him, he's not hitting the wide open looks from 3 and long 2's. However he's getting the ball and getting into much much better spots since we went to Triangle. Willy, as well, gets lots of looks. The offense is really good for bigs (that's why Shaq loves it) and role players that like to spot up and cut back door. However it sucks for ball dominant guards or wings, which is why I think talent is possible.

KP had a .551 TS% before the all-star break and .501 TS% since the break, when they refocused on the Triangle. I agree he's looked better, healthier... more hustle... but it seems as if the Triangle is not helping his shot selection or getting him easier shots.

I don't know why Phil would re-focus on the Triangle after the all-star break if the intention wasn't to re-focus on it going forward.

I was half-kidding... but it'll be interesting to see what we all think of the Triangle this time next year. I'm open to loving it if it looks good. I'll be quite skeptical if the team still looks lost four years in to this experiment.

¿ △ ?
Nalod
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3/22/2017  1:27 PM
crzymdups wrote:Can't wait to bump this thread next year so we can compare to whoever Shaq is blaming for the Triangle not working.

why wait?
Does it matter why a team succeeds or why a team fails?
Is "Told you so" that important?

nixluva
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3/22/2017  2:36 PM
crzymdups wrote:
nyknickzingis wrote:
crzymdups wrote:Can't wait to bump this thread next year so we can compare to whoever Shaq is blaming for the Triangle not working.

I don't think they'll be running Triangle as much next year as they are now. I think it goes back to what it was at the start of the season, maybe a bit more. I don't believe they are going to be strictly a Triangle team.

Even so, hasn't KP been much better since we ran the Triangle? His outside shots suck, but that's on him, he's not hitting the wide open looks from 3 and long 2's. However he's getting the ball and getting into much much better spots since we went to Triangle. Willy, as well, gets lots of looks. The offense is really good for bigs (that's why Shaq loves it) and role players that like to spot up and cut back door. However it sucks for ball dominant guards or wings, which is why I think talent is possible.

KP had a .551 TS% before the all-star break and .501 TS% since the break, when they refocused on the Triangle. I agree he's looked better, healthier... more hustle... but it seems as if the Triangle is not helping his shot selection or getting him easier shots.

I don't know why Phil would re-focus on the Triangle after the all-star break if the intention wasn't to re-focus on it going forward.

I was half-kidding... but it'll be interesting to see what we all think of the Triangle this time next year. I'm open to loving it if it looks good. I'll be quite skeptical if the team still looks lost four years in to this experiment.

KP is far from a finished product and a dip in his shooting over a short period of time is not the point! KP is going to grow into being more of a Post capable player and as he expands his game these early struggles will help his development process.

I really do question your evaluation process when you keep pointing to such short term fluctuations and seem to overlook the long term development curve our younger players must go thru. Unless your talking Lebron or some other All Time great it can take time for young players to fully develop.

We can all see that KP lacks enough strength to consistently post up or defend bigger or stronger players but that can be a temporary weakness and can be overcome with hard work in the offseason. So yes KP and all the younger players should get more work in the Triangle. It's only going to enhance their Basketball knowledge.

knicks1248
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3/22/2017  2:39 PM
nixluva wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
nixluva wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
jrodmc wrote:
nixluva wrote:
holfresh wrote:
nixluva wrote:
holfresh wrote:Who cares anyway...Organization won't recover from this for a long time...We will be a lottery team for the next few years...So we need to acquire talent...Hope we find a qualified GM to do the job...

And you accused me of being childish? The organization can recover quite well from not having Melo or Rose for that matter. They no longer play winning basketball. They're net negative players and they kill team play. These are the facts.


You are a child at times..You can't see beyond Melo Rose and Phil...

I talk about Melo and Rose because they quite literally don't play winning basketball. If you could make the case that they do play winning basketball I'd love to see it. They have personal production but it's all empty from a team perspective.

Not for nothing, but who on the knicks is playing winning basketball right now? And while you're busy thinking about how Ron Baker and BillyH are joining KP in the HOF in the next three seasons, exactly how many games has the team won without everyone's favorite empty personal production player?

are you a knick or melo fan? Look i have no problem with you defending melo but you seem to criticize players like KP and Willy for petty reasons. Like it or not they are a big part of our future

SMDH 😡 I don't get some Knicks fans being so negative towards our young Prospects but seemingly supportive of guys like Melo and Rose who aren't showing they deserve to be part of our future!

Asking how many games we've won without Melo seems odd cuz we haven't won a lot WITH Melo!!! It's time to move on! As frustrating as it has been the one HUGE saving grace is that we have our pick and at least a shot at adding another core player this summer.

yeah im not telling him he shouldnt support his guy. I just feel he is bashing our young core because they are gonna the focus now

AND THE YOUNG PLAYERS SHOULD BE THE FOCUS NOW!!! Haven't we dedicated enough time and money in these vets only to fail? ENOUGH already! I'm done with selfish, lazy, stubborn players like Melo and Rose!!! This was an opportunity for them to step up and LEAD and they both failed.

It would be one thing if Melo and Rose were busting their tails off, being vocal leaders, fully buying in and passing to the younger players in order to help them excel, but they've done the COMPLETE OPPOSITE!!!

Sounds like you expected those 2 to come out of character. why don't you have the same venom for the person who brought them here.

ES
crzymdups
Posts: 52018
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Member: #671
USA
3/22/2017  3:01 PM
Nalod wrote:
crzymdups wrote:Can't wait to bump this thread next year so we can compare to whoever Shaq is blaming for the Triangle not working.

why wait?
Does it matter why a team succeeds or why a team fails?
Is "Told you so" that important?

Actually, for me team success is more important and that's why I'm upset about this continual mess.

¿ △ ?
Nalod
Posts: 68482
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Member: #508
USA
3/22/2017  3:33 PM
crzymdups wrote:
Nalod wrote:
crzymdups wrote:Can't wait to bump this thread next year so we can compare to whoever Shaq is blaming for the Triangle not working.

why wait?
Does it matter why a team succeeds or why a team fails?
Is "Told you so" that important?

Actually, for me team success is more important and that's why I'm upset about this continual mess.

I agree!!!!
Triangle and Phil seemed to be taking the brunt of fans frustrations and media as well.
Nalod is a here and now kind of guy who really does not lament on the past. Or, at least I strive for that.
I do believe that good teams move well without the ball and the ball must move to get them. They have good players that are able, and are committed to that task.
MDA failed in NY, failed to get Lakers (not healthy to do it) commited, and was seen as an ineffective system. Yet with Rockets, he has them contending. Right personal and they are committed!
This is simple and yet oh so difficult to accomplish. Saying "We need more athletes, more rookies, more what ever" is never just that.

Nalod fully supports what Phil is trying to do because its effective. Its not easy, and I'd rather keep trying then promote some unseen hope that a young GM has some mystical alternative. Thats abstract.
Am i delusional? No, I see the teams record.
Do I prescribe to the quick fix? Never.

knicks1248
Posts: 42059
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Member: #582
3/22/2017  4:09 PM
StarksEwing1 wrote:
nixluva wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
jrodmc wrote:
nixluva wrote:
holfresh wrote:
nixluva wrote:
holfresh wrote:Who cares anyway...Organization won't recover from this for a long time...We will be a lottery team for the next few years...So we need to acquire talent...Hope we find a qualified GM to do the job...

And you accused me of being childish? The organization can recover quite well from not having Melo or Rose for that matter. They no longer play winning basketball. They're net negative players and they kill team play. These are the facts.


You are a child at times..You can't see beyond Melo Rose and Phil...

I talk about Melo and Rose because they quite literally don't play winning basketball. If you could make the case that they do play winning basketball I'd love to see it. They have personal production but it's all empty from a team perspective.

Not for nothing, but who on the knicks is playing winning basketball right now? And while you're busy thinking about how Ron Baker and BillyH are joining KP in the HOF in the next three seasons, exactly how many games has the team won without everyone's favorite empty personal production player?

are you a knick or melo fan? Look i have no problem with you defending melo but you seem to criticize players like KP and Willy for petty reasons. Like it or not they are a big part of our future

SMDH 😡 I don't get some Knicks fans being so negative towards our young Prospects but seemingly supportive of guys like Melo and Rose who aren't showing they deserve to be part of our future!

Asking how many games we've won without Melo seems odd cuz we haven't won a lot WITH Melo!!! It's time to move on! As frustrating as it has been the one HUGE saving grace is that we have our pick and at least a shot at adding another core player this summer.

yeah im not telling him he shouldnt support his guy. I just feel he is bashing our young core because they are gonna the focus now


Who the hell is our core? We don't have no core..we have a bunch of bench players outside melo, kp, and rose, and that's who your calling our core. You may have lost your mind dude

ES
Shaq blames Melo, Rose and Knicks players not Triangle

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