holfresh wrote:And Shaq never singled out Rose...Never..Thats a lie...

holfresh wrote:Phil won 37 games when Kobe was the only star...You need talent...

You are agruing about a different topic than everyone else. This is about what makes the Triangle work and pretty much any team, either on offense or defense, work.

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:Who cares anyway...Organization won't recover from this for a long time...We will be a lottery team for the next few years...So we need to acquire talent...Hope we find a qualified GM to do the job...

And you accused me of being childish? The organization can recover quite well from not having Melo or Rose for that matter. They no longer play winning basketball. They're net negative players and they kill team play. These are the facts.

Triangle or not, still got to play defense.
Triangle or not, still have move the ball and move without the ball.
Why is that antiquated? Pop demands it.

Shaq said something more important, he said "Buy into it".......Read phil's books and he discusses in hi 20 years why 9 teams did not win chips and sometimes went rougue.
The notion of HOF talent alone is not just what made them great, They had role players who did their jobs and the HOF stars believed in them. "Jordan was being doubled, so he kicked it to Kerr......" get it.

Nalod wrote:Of course you need talent!!!!
All great coach's had great talent!!!!

Triangle or not, still got to play defense.
Triangle or not, still have move the ball and move without the ball.
Why is that antiquated? Pop demands it.

Shaq said something more important, he said "Buy into it".......Read phil's books and he discusses in hi 20 years why 9 teams did not win chips and sometimes went rougue.
The notion of HOF talent alone is not just what made them great, They had role players who did their jobs and the HOF stars believed in them. "Jordan was being doubled, so he kicked it to Kerr......" get it.

The core players played years together and were in their primes when the triangle was introduced..Shaq said that was very important in accepting the triangle...We change roster every 6 months...MJ, Pippen and Grant were in their primes...Kobe, Shaq, Ariza, Fox, Bynum, Gasol in their primes..

KP trying to find himself...Rose is rediscovering his game...Melo on a huge physical decline...

holfresh wrote:

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:Who cares anyway...Organization won't recover from this for a long time...We will be a lottery team for the next few years...So we need to acquire talent...Hope we find a qualified GM to do the job...

And you accused me of being childish? The organization can recover quite well from not having Melo or Rose for that matter. They no longer play winning basketball. They're net negative players and they kill team play. These are the facts.

You are a child at times..You can't see beyond Melo Rose and Phil...

I talk about Melo and Rose because they quite literally don't play winning basketball. If you could make the case that they do play winning basketball I'd love to see it. They have personal production but it's all empty from a team perspective.

crzymdups wrote:

holfresh wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

holfresh wrote:And Shaq never singled out Rose...Never..Thats a lie...

This. He also didn't single out Melo, said he wouldn't diss Hornacek and said that Tex Winter was the guy always talking not Phil. The Knicks don't have Tex on the bench. They don't have Phil on the bench. If you read the Fisher articles, it seems there was a clash between coaching to the roster strengths versus coaching to implement a system. There are a lot of things wrong with the Knicks. Now that the playoffs are out the picture the triangle compliments the tank.

The way Shaq presented it is that it was a decision the whole team, who like the Bulls, played many years together, made to accept the triangle...We have players on a different trajectory in their careers who never played together until this year..It's more of a challenge..The coach is reluctantly on board..Shaq mentioned that trading guys like Shump etc made it harder...

The Bulls were also a group of guys who had been together several years and were trying to find a way to get over the hurdle to finally beat the Pistons. They knew each other's tendencies, had already played together at a high level... it made more sense for them to embrace the Triangle maybe.

I've always thought the OKC thunder when they had Westbrook and Durant would've been a good candidate for the Triangle. They needed something to get them over the top.

Shaq's Lakers were in a similar boat - they'd been together a few years and kept stalling in the playoffs. They needed something to take them over the top.

The Knicks, obviously, were nowhere near that position.

holfresh wrote:And Shaq never singled out Rose...Never..Thats a lie...

Exactly, he didn't say any names. they also (fish and shaq)made it crystal clear that they had a veteran team. Where's our rick fox, big shot bob, or even fisher or kerr who hit countless big 3's.

They also stated that if you keep flipping the roster how can you build a core, every year your going to start all over.

crzymdups wrote:

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:Who cares anyway...Organization won't recover from this for a long time...We will be a lottery team for the next few years...So we need to acquire talent...Hope we find a qualified GM to do the job...

And you accused me of being childish? The organization can recover quite well from not having Melo or Rose for that matter. They no longer play winning basketball. They're net negative players and they kill team play. These are the facts.

You are a child at times..You can't see beyond Melo Rose and Phil...

I talk about Melo and Rose because they quite literally don't play winning basketball. If you could make the case that they do play winning basketball I'd love to see it. They have personal production but it's all empty from a team perspective.

Both players LITERALLY made the playoffs every year of their life until Phil came along. Search a little deeper.

I can tell you that you are living in the past. I believed they were still capable but now I see how wrong I was. Melo and Rose are not winning players anymore. They can both still score but they simply don't do enough of the things that lead to wins.

They don't defend and they don't help the team function on a higher level. The team is just marginally better when they're off the court. If we had more well rounded lead players in their place the team would be better off. I want 2 Way players that buy into team play and defense.

nixluva wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:Who cares anyway...Organization won't recover from this for a long time...We will be a lottery team for the next few years...So we need to acquire talent...Hope we find a qualified GM to do the job...

And you accused me of being childish? The organization can recover quite well from not having Melo or Rose for that matter. They no longer play winning basketball. They're net negative players and they kill team play. These are the facts.

You are a child at times..You can't see beyond Melo Rose and Phil...

I talk about Melo and Rose because they quite literally don't play winning basketball. If you could make the case that they do play winning basketball I'd love to see it. They have personal production but it's all empty from a team perspective.

Both players LITERALLY made the playoffs every year of their life until Phil came along. Search a little deeper.

I can tell you that you are living in the past. I believed they were still capable but now I see how wrong I was. Melo and Rose are not winning players anymore. They can both still score but they simply don't do enough of the things that lead to wins.

They don't defend and they don't help the team function on a higher level. The team is just marginally better when they're off the court. If we had more well rounded lead players in their place the team would be better off. I want 2 Way players that buy into team play and defense.

holfresh wrote:

nixluva wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:Who cares anyway...Organization won't recover from this for a long time...We will be a lottery team for the next few years...So we need to acquire talent...Hope we find a qualified GM to do the job...

And you accused me of being childish? The organization can recover quite well from not having Melo or Rose for that matter. They no longer play winning basketball. They're net negative players and they kill team play. These are the facts.

You are a child at times..You can't see beyond Melo Rose and Phil...

I talk about Melo and Rose because they quite literally don't play winning basketball. If you could make the case that they do play winning basketball I'd love to see it. They have personal production but it's all empty from a team perspective.

Both players LITERALLY made the playoffs every year of their life until Phil came along. Search a little deeper.

I can tell you that you are living in the past. I believed they were still capable but now I see how wrong I was. Melo and Rose are not winning players anymore. They can both still score but they simply don't do enough of the things that lead to wins.

They don't defend and they don't help the team function on a higher level. The team is just marginally better when they're off the court. If we had more well rounded lead players in their place the team would be better off. I want 2 Way players that buy into team play and defense.

KP and Willy can't defend their positions either but you don't mind that...Kuz can't defend..Melo defends 4s better than KP...AHH what's the point..

I bet you KP and Willy defend much better when we replace Melo and Rose with better defenders!