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Last night did it look like KP and Willy could be a starting 4-5 in this league any time soon?
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BRIGGS
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3/21/2017  11:09 AM
They were athletically and physically destroyed by Jordan and Griffin. They were completely dominated with ease. I think we need some athletic force in the middle--somewhere?? If those two are manning 4-5 our defense will stink.
RIP Crushalot😞
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fishmike
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3/21/2017  11:14 AM
Wow. Our 21/22 year old rookie/sophmore were handled by two of the strongest most physical players in the NBA and two MAX players.

Yes... they look great and I am thrilled to have them. Looking forward for more this draft.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Knixkik
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3/21/2017  11:15 AM
KP is likely a center. Willy will be a nice change-of-pace backup center. Starting together is tough. KP needs to be a center and surrounded by athletic, tough 3-and-D types at the forward positions. Willy can dominate off the bench as the focal point of the offense when KP is out. It's pretty obvious at this point. KP is the ideal center for the future of the game. He will struggle on defense against bruising centers, but protects the rim and will be a mismatch nightmare when he puts it all together.
fishmike
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3/21/2017  11:19 AM
Knixkik wrote:KP is likely a center. Willy will be a nice change-of-pace backup center. Starting together is tough. KP needs to be a center and surrounded by athletic, tough 3-and-D types at the forward positions. Willy can dominate off the bench as the focal point of the offense when KP is out. It's pretty obvious at this point. KP is the ideal center for the future of the game. He will struggle on defense against bruising centers, but protects the rim and will be a mismatch nightmare when he puts it all together.
show me two 21/22 year olds starting in the league that cant be described as "rough"

Do we want young players with growing pains?

Briggs has plenty of good ideas but he is in his 3x thread a day mode following this pattern:
1) Knicks lose so lets crap on some player on the roster
2) Knicks win so lets talk about how stupid they are for hurting their lottery chances
3) Seth Curry had a good game so post his stat line

You are NOT going to see good basketball from the Knicks this season. It doesnt mean taking their lumps isnt helping.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
nixluva
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3/21/2017  11:25 AM
KP and Willy made mistakes but really they also had good performances given their stage of development. We have to also remember that they have not had a lot of starts together in the NBA and they will gain lessons from the experience of playing together and seeing their mistakes on film.

There's this notion that they can't play together but that is still to be determined. I see them having good chemistry with each other and hopefully it should get even better with more time.
crzymdups
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3/21/2017  11:29 AM
I don't think Willy and KP are fast enough to be starting next to each other in today's league. Certainly not defensively imposing enough on the interior to warrant their lack of foot speed on the perimeter.

We need a defensive stalwart next to KP, I think... but a quick one, a 4/5 hybrid, because really KP is a four five hybrid. We need some speed to cover ground on close outs and help D down there next to KP. Willy is solid, but I don't see him fitting next to KP long-term.

That said, yeah, it's not really fair to judge them against Blake and DeAndre with Chris Paul picking the Knicks already suspect D apart.

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newyorknewyork
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3/21/2017  11:34 AM
The hope is that KP and Willy will grow to the point where they impose their will on teams the way Gasol and Randolph use to. There flaws show today because they are not at that level yet being 2nd and 1st year players. But the potential is there. When they become seasoned vets we will be happy we have them on our team. Just have to get through the growing pains.
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Knixkik
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3/21/2017  11:34 AM
fishmike wrote:
Knixkik wrote:KP is likely a center. Willy will be a nice change-of-pace backup center. Starting together is tough. KP needs to be a center and surrounded by athletic, tough 3-and-D types at the forward positions. Willy can dominate off the bench as the focal point of the offense when KP is out. It's pretty obvious at this point. KP is the ideal center for the future of the game. He will struggle on defense against bruising centers, but protects the rim and will be a mismatch nightmare when he puts it all together.
show me two 21/22 year olds starting in the league that cant be described as "rough"

Do we want young players with growing pains?

Briggs has plenty of good ideas but he is in his 3x thread a day mode following this pattern:
1) Knicks lose so lets crap on some player on the roster
2) Knicks win so lets talk about how stupid they are for hurting their lottery chances
3) Seth Curry had a good game so post his stat line

You are NOT going to see good basketball from the Knicks this season. It doesnt mean taking their lumps isnt helping.

Completely agree. It can definitely work. I am just thinking where the league is going. KP can be an absolute nightmare as a starting center. Willy is sort of a throwback center who has a post-game and has magnets on his hands for rebounds. We don't see many of these players starting anymore. Most are great backup centers who do a ton of damage in low minutes. Not that he can't break that mold. We know they are capable of playing together, but i would like to see KP spend most of his minutes at center in the future, because the league won't be able to deal with it. As a center, KP should eventually be unstoppable.
newyorknewyork
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3/21/2017  11:35 AM
crzymdups wrote:I don't think Willy and KP are fast enough to be starting next to each other in today's league. Certainly not defensively imposing enough on the interior to warrant their lack of foot speed on the perimeter.

We need a defensive stalwart next to KP, I think... but a quick one, a 4/5 hybrid, because really KP is a four five hybrid. We need some speed to cover ground on close outs and help D down there next to KP. Willy is solid, but I don't see him fitting next to KP long-term.

That said, yeah, it's not really fair to judge them against Blake and DeAndre with Chris Paul picking the Knicks already suspect D apart.

Or we need KP and Willy to become good enough in there own games that they force teams to adjust to them.

https://vote.nba.com/en Vote for your Knicks.
crzymdups
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3/21/2017  11:37 AM
newyorknewyork wrote:
crzymdups wrote:I don't think Willy and KP are fast enough to be starting next to each other in today's league. Certainly not defensively imposing enough on the interior to warrant their lack of foot speed on the perimeter.

We need a defensive stalwart next to KP, I think... but a quick one, a 4/5 hybrid, because really KP is a four five hybrid. We need some speed to cover ground on close outs and help D down there next to KP. Willy is solid, but I don't see him fitting next to KP long-term.

That said, yeah, it's not really fair to judge them against Blake and DeAndre with Chris Paul picking the Knicks already suspect D apart.

Or we need KP and Willy to become good enough in there own games that they force teams to adjust to them.

True - I think it is possible to design an offense where they can become a force... but I just don't know if they're quick enough on defense.

I like Willy, but I'm not sure I see him as a long-term starter. This team is not one or two pieces away, we're a good three or four very good players away from being good. I'm fine starting Willy for the next few seasons and see where it goes.

¿ △ ?
newyorknewyork
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3/21/2017  11:46 AM    LAST EDITED: 3/21/2017  11:47 AM
Marc Gasol was drafted in 2007, came to the league in 08-09 at the age of 24. And didn't become the defensive slash stud player he became until 4 years later at the age of 27.

I mean 4th season in.

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BRIGGS
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3/21/2017  11:54 AM
fishmike wrote:
Knixkik wrote:KP is likely a center. Willy will be a nice change-of-pace backup center. Starting together is tough. KP needs to be a center and surrounded by athletic, tough 3-and-D types at the forward positions. Willy can dominate off the bench as the focal point of the offense when KP is out. It's pretty obvious at this point. KP is the ideal center for the future of the game. He will struggle on defense against bruising centers, but protects the rim and will be a mismatch nightmare when he puts it all together.
show me two 21/22 year olds starting in the league that cant be described as "rough"

Do we want young players with growing pains?

Briggs has plenty of good ideas but he is in his 3x thread a day mode following this pattern:
1) Knicks lose so lets crap on some player on the roster
2) Knicks win so lets talk about how stupid they are for hurting their lottery chances
3) Seth Curry had a good game so post his stat line

You are NOT going to see good basketball from the Knicks this season. It doesnt mean taking their lumps isnt helping.

You can say whatever you want--KP and Willy g are both 5s defensively. There is a reason why we give up 67 points in the first half every game --not only do we not get pressure from the guards--we are to slow and weak inside. KP needs to get stronger and we will need to address the 4 position.

RIP Crushalot😞
Knixkik
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3/21/2017  12:01 PM
BRIGGS wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Knixkik wrote:KP is likely a center. Willy will be a nice change-of-pace backup center. Starting together is tough. KP needs to be a center and surrounded by athletic, tough 3-and-D types at the forward positions. Willy can dominate off the bench as the focal point of the offense when KP is out. It's pretty obvious at this point. KP is the ideal center for the future of the game. He will struggle on defense against bruising centers, but protects the rim and will be a mismatch nightmare when he puts it all together.
show me two 21/22 year olds starting in the league that cant be described as "rough"

Do we want young players with growing pains?

Briggs has plenty of good ideas but he is in his 3x thread a day mode following this pattern:
1) Knicks lose so lets crap on some player on the roster
2) Knicks win so lets talk about how stupid they are for hurting their lottery chances
3) Seth Curry had a good game so post his stat line

You are NOT going to see good basketball from the Knicks this season. It doesnt mean taking their lumps isnt helping.

You can say whatever you want--KP and Willy g are both 5s defensively. There is a reason why we give up 67 points in the first half every game --not only do we not get pressure from the guards--we are to slow and weak inside. KP needs to get stronger and we will need to address the 4 position.

Agreed. Both are 5s defensively. Next season, Lance should probably start at the 3 and we need to find a 4 who is athletic, can defend, and rebound. Willy can still share the floor with KP at times and will get his 28 mpg anyways.
nyknickzingis
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3/21/2017  12:08 PM    LAST EDITED: 3/21/2017  12:10 PM
Most of the breakdowns happen when Paul or a PG penetrate, Willy or KP help, and then Blake or DAJ go off. Clippers entire offense is built that way.

I like how KP played against them. He was 9-12 on shots within the arc. He needs to keep working on his mid-range and post game and find those easy looks he's getting with the Triangle motion. He took Blake off the dribble a few times and Blake was incapable to defend.

What we need is our own CP3. No Melo/Rose. CP3. Now you'll be able to determine just how good Willy/KP are.

We don't have a single player close to the level of CP3 who makes the entire offense work and gets guys the ball in the right spots. The Clippers also move the ball for the extra pass.

I want KP/Willy to start together one season, free of Melo/Rose, free of the drama around the team this year, with a young guard who is running the team and with support role players like CLee, Thomas, Baker, Holiday. Then see what they perform like.
nixluva
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3/21/2017  12:08 PM
BRIGGS wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Knixkik wrote:KP is likely a center. Willy will be a nice change-of-pace backup center. Starting together is tough. KP needs to be a center and surrounded by athletic, tough 3-and-D types at the forward positions. Willy can dominate off the bench as the focal point of the offense when KP is out. It's pretty obvious at this point. KP is the ideal center for the future of the game. He will struggle on defense against bruising centers, but protects the rim and will be a mismatch nightmare when he puts it all together.
show me two 21/22 year olds starting in the league that cant be described as "rough"

Do we want young players with growing pains?

Briggs has plenty of good ideas but he is in his 3x thread a day mode following this pattern:
1) Knicks lose so lets crap on some player on the roster
2) Knicks win so lets talk about how stupid they are for hurting their lottery chances
3) Seth Curry had a good game so post his stat line

You are NOT going to see good basketball from the Knicks this season. It doesnt mean taking their lumps isnt helping.

You can say whatever you want--KP and Willy g are both 5s defensively. There is a reason why we give up 67 points in the first half every game --not only do we not get pressure from the guards--we are to slow and weak inside. KP needs to get stronger and we will need to address the 4 position.


From what I can see it looks like KP and Willy have started all of SEVEN games together!!! I think you're being vastly premature in your assessment. You have to at least allow these guys to mature and develop. I mean GEEZ 21/22 yr old kids are gonna struggle a bit against TOP TIER bigs. You need much more time to see how they develop than this.


Date	 	 	Opponent                  Tm	Opp	W	L	Starting Lineup
Mon, Mar 20, 2017	@ Los Angeles Clippers	L 105	114	27	43	C. Anthony · W. Hernangomez · C. Lee · K. Porzingis · D. Rose
Sun, Mar 12, 2017	@ Brooklyn Nets	        L 112	120	26	41	C. Anthony · W. Hernangomez · C. Lee · K. Porzingis · D. Rose
Sat, Mar 11, 2017	@ Detroit Pistons	L 92	112	26	40	C. Anthony · W. Hernangomez · C. Lee · K. Porzingis · D. Rose
Wed, Mar 8, 2017	@ Milwaukee Bucks	L 93	104	26	39	C. Anthony · W. Hernangomez · C. Lee · K. Porzingis · D. Rose
Thu, Feb 23, 2017	@ Cleveland Cavaliers	L 104	119	23	35	C. Anthony · W. Hernangomez · C. Lee · K. Porzingis · D. Rose
Wed, Feb 15, 2017	@ Oklahoma City Thunder	L 105	116	23	34	C. Anthony · W. Hernangomez · C. Lee · K. Porzingis · D. Rose
Sun, Feb 12, 2017	  San Antonio Spurs	W 94	90	23	33	C. Anthony · W. Hernangomez · C. Lee · K. Porzingis · D. Rose
StarksEwing1
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3/21/2017  12:22 PM
Both are very young but the potential is endless. We know they are both hard workers along with their talent so im excited to see them grow as a tandem. Once we get a point guard it will be pretty fun
fishmike
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3/21/2017  12:27 PM
BRIGGS wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Knixkik wrote:KP is likely a center. Willy will be a nice change-of-pace backup center. Starting together is tough. KP needs to be a center and surrounded by athletic, tough 3-and-D types at the forward positions. Willy can dominate off the bench as the focal point of the offense when KP is out. It's pretty obvious at this point. KP is the ideal center for the future of the game. He will struggle on defense against bruising centers, but protects the rim and will be a mismatch nightmare when he puts it all together.
show me two 21/22 year olds starting in the league that cant be described as "rough"

Do we want young players with growing pains?

Briggs has plenty of good ideas but he is in his 3x thread a day mode following this pattern:
1) Knicks lose so lets crap on some player on the roster
2) Knicks win so lets talk about how stupid they are for hurting their lottery chances
3) Seth Curry had a good game so post his stat line

You are NOT going to see good basketball from the Knicks this season. It doesnt mean taking their lumps isnt helping.

You can say whatever you want--KP and Willy g are both 5s defensively. There is a reason why we give up 67 points in the first half every game --not only do we not get pressure from the guards--we are to slow and weak inside. KP needs to get stronger and we will need to address the 4 position.

So we get no guard help and your post is on the 21/22 year olds? This is very typical of you. Start a post that a guy is great or cant do something based on 30 minutes of action.

Karl Anthony Towns cant defend centers. Opposing centers have one of the highest FG%s against the Wolves in perhaps the whole league. Does that mean Towns cant guard 5s? He was a 4 in college. Or does it just mean that a guy with 1 year in the league who should be a college sophmore simply needs more time?

Projecting what Willy and KP can and cant do right now is dumb. Sorry it just is. Dirk won an MVP guarding 4s. I guess that was the "old NBA" right? Ridiculous.

KP/Willy are a very good fit offensively. Good enough to start looking at as building blocks. How many 21/22 year olds in the league are good defenders? This is really a stupid thing to harp on at this point in their careers, especially playing together. Young bigs that play well typically have a veteran that cover for them. If they dont they are going to struggle.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
GoNyGoNyGo
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3/21/2017  12:49 PM
BRIGGS wrote:They were athletically and physically destroyed by Jordan and Griffin. They were completely dominated with ease. I think we need some athletic force in the middle--somewhere?? If those two are manning 4-5 our defense will stink.

Melo was also trying to guard Griffin.
TPercy
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3/21/2017  1:22 PM
GoNyGoNyGo wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:They were athletically and physically destroyed by Jordan and Griffin. They were completely dominated with ease. I think we need some athletic force in the middle--somewhere?? If those two are manning 4-5 our defense will stink.

Melo was also trying to guard Griffin.


Basically the entire game.
The Future is Bright!
Nalod
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3/21/2017  1:24 PM
We need, we need, we need, we need, we need.......................
or......
We need to, we need to, we need to, we need..................

Add:
Tank
Tank better
Be like Lakers (they have picks, but to date no plan)
Be like Nets (They have a plan, but no picks)
Be like Spurs
Be like Mike
Be more athletic
Be more tough
Be more Better
Pass first PG
Shoot first SG
Athletic 2 way SF
defensive PF stud
Shoot more 3's
Make more 3's
Hire RC buford clone
Fire Rambis
FIre Phil
Fire Mills
New Owner
Bring back Ewing
Extract Oak testosterone
Bring back 90's uniform
Spree Love......

Really simple. Score more points then the opponent.
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Last night did it look like KP and Willy could be a starting 4-5 in this league any time soon?
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