EnySpree wrote:Id take Austin Rivers and Crawford... I want Brice Johnson too. Maybe we can flip Crawford somewhere else. Doesn't matter. I'd take some picks too... Doesn't matter what year or round.

Time to close this chapter

NardDogNation wrote:I wonder if Melo does relinquish his NTC if we could possibly do a 3-way deal with the Clippers that involves sign and trading JJ Redick to the Thunder. I'm not sure what the nuances of the new CBA are with sign-and-trades but I think that JJ Redick and Austin Rivers might be enough to entice the Thunder to give up Victor Oladipo, who I'd be interested in for the Knicks. If so, I wouldn't even demand a first round from the Clippers since a deal that is in effect, Melo for Oladipo is a decent return. Melo and Courtney to LAC; JJ Redick and Austin Rivers to OKC; Victor Oladipo, Jamal Crawford, a 2020 or 2021 1st round pick swaps and some 2nd rounders would work under the cap and for me if I were the Knicks GM.

Particularly with the upcoming draft, I'd be intrigued with the potential combo of a Frank Ntilikina and Victor as my backcourt (if Frank becomes our pick). Both can get to the rim, both can reasonably space the floor, both are reasonably good ball movers and both are lengthy defenders. They could potentially operate as a remixed version of Eric Bledsoe and Goran Dragic pairing that the Suns had.

This seems to be well thought out - I like it

crzymdups wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:I wonder if Melo does relinquish his NTC if we could possibly do a 3-way deal with the Clippers that involves sign and trading JJ Redick to the Thunder. I'm not sure what the nuances of the new CBA are with sign-and-trades but I think that JJ Redick and Austin Rivers might be enough to entice the Thunder to give up Victor Oladipo, who I'd be interested in for the Knicks. If so, I wouldn't even demand a first round from the Clippers since a deal that is in effect, Melo for Oladipo is a decent return. Melo and Courtney to LAC; JJ Redick and Austin Rivers to OKC; Victor Oladipo, Jamal Crawford, a 2020 or 2021 1st round pick swaps and some 2nd rounders would work under the cap and for me if I were the Knicks GM.

Particularly with the upcoming draft, I'd be intrigued with the potential combo of a Frank Ntilikina and Victor as my backcourt (if Frank becomes our pick). Both can get to the rim, both can reasonably space the floor, both are reasonably good ball movers and both are lengthy defenders. They could potentially operate as a remixed version of Eric Bledsoe and Goran Dragic pairing that the Suns had.

Not sure what can happen, but I like Oladipo's game and I'd be in favor of something like this.

I would not take Oladipo and his $21 mill a yr salary starting next season. He is not worth those dollars...Crawford at this point is useless...I love Crawford game but you do not maximize his potential on a rebuilding team....give me Austin, Brice and 2021, 2023 picks....ala Boston/Crooklyn trade Ainge pulled...those picks could be hidden gold in a couple of years..

crzymdups wrote:

ekstarks94 wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:I wonder if Melo does relinquish his NTC if we could possibly do a 3-way deal with the Clippers that involves sign and trading JJ Redick to the Thunder. I'm not sure what the nuances of the new CBA are with sign-and-trades but I think that JJ Redick and Austin Rivers might be enough to entice the Thunder to give up Victor Oladipo, who I'd be interested in for the Knicks. If so, I wouldn't even demand a first round from the Clippers since a deal that is in effect, Melo for Oladipo is a decent return. Melo and Courtney to LAC; JJ Redick and Austin Rivers to OKC; Victor Oladipo, Jamal Crawford, a 2020 or 2021 1st round pick swaps and some 2nd rounders would work under the cap and for me if I were the Knicks GM.

Particularly with the upcoming draft, I'd be intrigued with the potential combo of a Frank Ntilikina and Victor as my backcourt (if Frank becomes our pick). Both can get to the rim, both can reasonably space the floor, both are reasonably good ball movers and both are lengthy defenders. They could potentially operate as a remixed version of Eric Bledsoe and Goran Dragic pairing that the Suns had.

Not sure what can happen, but I like Oladipo's game and I'd be in favor of something like this.

I would not take Oladipo and his $21 mill a yr salary starting next season. He is not worth those dollars...Crawford at this point is useless...I love Crawford game but you do not maximize his potential on a rebuilding team....give me Austin, Brice and 2021, 2023 picks....ala Boston/Crooklyn trade Ainge pulled...those picks could be hidden gold in a couple of years..

That's a highly unrealistic return for Melo at this point. There will not be another trade like that nets trade any time soon.

If you take Crawford salary and throw in Lee. Reroute Crawford with a 2nd sweetener....not impossible . Or at the very least if not outright swap picks which is probably the easier sell...but if there is a swap no way in hell I am taking Crawford for a 1st and a swap on the other pick....I understand that Carmelo is diminishing returns but I am not robbing myself

ekstarks94 wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:I wonder if Melo does relinquish his NTC if we could possibly do a 3-way deal with the Clippers that involves sign and trading JJ Redick to the Thunder. I'm not sure what the nuances of the new CBA are with sign-and-trades but I think that JJ Redick and Austin Rivers might be enough to entice the Thunder to give up Victor Oladipo, who I'd be interested in for the Knicks. If so, I wouldn't even demand a first round from the Clippers since a deal that is in effect, Melo for Oladipo is a decent return. Melo and Courtney to LAC; JJ Redick and Austin Rivers to OKC; Victor Oladipo, Jamal Crawford, a 2020 or 2021 1st round pick swaps and some 2nd rounders would work under the cap and for me if I were the Knicks GM.

Particularly with the upcoming draft, I'd be intrigued with the potential combo of a Frank Ntilikina and Victor as my backcourt (if Frank becomes our pick). Both can get to the rim, both can reasonably space the floor, both are reasonably good ball movers and both are lengthy defenders. They could potentially operate as a remixed version of Eric Bledsoe and Goran Dragic pairing that the Suns had.

Not sure what can happen, but I like Oladipo's game and I'd be in favor of something like this.

I would not take Oladipo and his $21 mill a yr salary starting next season. He is not worth those dollars...Crawford at this point is useless...I love Crawford game but you do not maximize his potential on a rebuilding team....give me Austin, Brice and 2021, 2023 picks....ala Boston/Crooklyn trade Ainge pulled...those picks could be hidden gold in a couple of years..

Is Rivers going to do this for a player that is a year closer to falling off and a defensive sieve while also giving up his kid in the process? I think it's doubtful and we need to come to accept that Melo might not be good enough to demand two first rounders anymore. At least other teams can be talked into pick swaps since they'd keep their a pick and preserve their ability to trade a pick if another deal presents itself. And from our perspective, that swap might still be benefitial because we'd be trending upward while they will be trending downard, which still increases our probility of getting a lottery pick.

crzymdups wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:I wonder if Melo does relinquish his NTC if we could possibly do a 3-way deal with the Clippers that involves sign and trading JJ Redick to the Thunder. I'm not sure what the nuances of the new CBA are with sign-and-trades but I think that JJ Redick and Austin Rivers might be enough to entice the Thunder to give up Victor Oladipo, who I'd be interested in for the Knicks. If so, I wouldn't even demand a first round from the Clippers since a deal that is in effect, Melo for Oladipo is a decent return. Melo and Courtney to LAC; JJ Redick and Austin Rivers to OKC; Victor Oladipo, Jamal Crawford, a 2020 or 2021 1st round pick swaps and some 2nd rounders would work under the cap and for me if I were the Knicks GM.

Particularly with the upcoming draft, I'd be intrigued with the potential combo of a Frank Ntilikina and Victor as my backcourt (if Frank becomes our pick). Both can get to the rim, both can reasonably space the floor, both are reasonably good ball movers and both are lengthy defenders. They could potentially operate as a remixed version of Eric Bledsoe and Goran Dragic pairing that the Suns had.

Not sure what can happen, but I like Oladipo's game and I'd be in favor of something like this.

And I think the trade does help the Thunder dramatically too. Their entire offense is basically whatever Westbrook can get them (which is a major product of Westbrook being a self-centered dickhead). With a guy like Redick though, you can at least get some secondary action off of pin-downs from some of the Thunder's excellent screening big men. Redick is also a pretty good option running a secondary pick and roll if the Thunder's first action (Westbrook drive) is denied, which should at least cut down on the last second contested heaves they have.

Austin Rivers also gives them some combo guard play off the bench, either playing with Redick or Westbrook. That'd be a nice little 3-guard rotation for them, which fits what they want from the backcourt seemlessly.

NardDogNation wrote:I wonder if Melo does relinquish his NTC if we could possibly do a 3-way deal with the Clippers that involves sign and trading JJ Redick to the Thunder. I'm not sure what the nuances of the new CBA are with sign-and-trades but I think that JJ Redick and Austin Rivers might be enough to entice the Thunder to give up Victor Oladipo, who I'd be interested in for the Knicks. If so, I wouldn't even demand a first round from the Clippers since a deal that is in effect, Melo for Oladipo is a decent return. Melo and Courtney to LAC; JJ Redick and Austin Rivers to OKC; Victor Oladipo, Jamal Crawford, a 2020 or 2021 1st round pick swaps and some 2nd rounders would work under the cap and for me if I were the Knicks GM.

Particularly with the upcoming draft, I'd be intrigued with the potential combo of a Frank Ntilikina and Victor as my backcourt (if Frank becomes our pick). Both can get to the rim, both can reasonably space the floor, both are reasonably good ball movers and both are lengthy defenders. They could potentially operate as a remixed version of Eric Bledsoe and Goran Dragic pairing that the Suns had.

You can't do sign and trades anymore- it's been that way since the last CBA.

NardDogNation wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:I wonder if Melo does relinquish his NTC if we could possibly do a 3-way deal with the Clippers that involves sign and trading JJ Redick to the Thunder. I'm not sure what the nuances of the new CBA are with sign-and-trades but I think that JJ Redick and Austin Rivers might be enough to entice the Thunder to give up Victor Oladipo, who I'd be interested in for the Knicks. If so, I wouldn't even demand a first round from the Clippers since a deal that is in effect, Melo for Oladipo is a decent return. Melo and Courtney to LAC; JJ Redick and Austin Rivers to OKC; Victor Oladipo, Jamal Crawford, a 2020 or 2021 1st round pick swaps and some 2nd rounders would work under the cap and for me if I were the Knicks GM.

Particularly with the upcoming draft, I'd be intrigued with the potential combo of a Frank Ntilikina and Victor as my backcourt (if Frank becomes our pick). Both can get to the rim, both can reasonably space the floor, both are reasonably good ball movers and both are lengthy defenders. They could potentially operate as a remixed version of Eric Bledsoe and Goran Dragic pairing that the Suns had.

You can't do sign and trades anymore- it's been that way since the last CBA.

You definitely could under the original version of this CBA; I'm just not sure what the nuances of it were.....

A sign-and-trade is only allowed in the offseason, and while the logistics seem complicated, it’s actually quite simple. Simply put, a player who wishes to leave his team in free agency can facilitate a sign-and-trade in which the new team, the old team, and the player can all benefit.

First, the player re-signs with his old team, with a stipulation in the contract that the agreement is void if he is not dealt to the team of his choice within 48 hours. The player is then traded to his new team, provided the new team is not $4 million over the tax level (also known as the “apron”), and as long as the new team has not used its Taxpayer Mid-Level Exception.

A few other minor, but important, stipulations should be noted.

The player must have finished the prior season with his team, meaning you can’t sign-and-trade a retired player, or one who finished the prior season on another team.

http://midlevelexceptional.com/2014/07/09/sign-teams/

Thanks, I've assumed for years that they effectively ended them under the old CBA (Can you recall the last sign and trade? I genuinely can't- they used to happen all the time. Looking at Larry Coon's guide, I have just found this:

93). Why would teams or players want to do a sign-and-trade?

Teams benefit because they can get something in return for players they would otherwise lose to free agency. For players the benefits are limited. Under previous CBAs a player who qualified could receive a full Bird contract and go to the team of his choice, which encouraged the player to seek a sign-and-trade once he decided to play elsewhere. Under the current CBA a player receives the same contract via sign-and-trade (four years, 4.5% raises) that he could get by signing with his new team directly, and can receive a larger Bird contract only if he stays with his previous team. In addition, it is much simpler for the player to sign directly with his new team, as a sign-and-trade has to be agreed to by three parties rather than two. A player is really only forced to seek a sign-and-trade if he wants to go to a team that is capped-out (or doesn't have enough cap room to give the player his full starting salary) and can't sign him directly.

Another factor encouraging a player not to seek a sign-and-trade is that his new team might be weakened by losing players or draft picks in the trade. So while a sign-and-trade is a useful tool when the team does not have the cap room to sign the player directly, the player and his new team have little reason to seek a sign-and-trade when the player can be signed without involving his previous team.

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q93

It seems they are still possible, but there is no longer any incentive for a player to agree to one as unlike in the past, they cannot get any more money doing one. Plus acquiring teams have to be at or under the tax apron, where as in the past teams way over the cap used them to sign a player they didn't have cap space for. So essentially sign and trades have been greatly weakened so as to be pointless.

crzymdups wrote:

ekstarks94 wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:I wonder if Melo does relinquish his NTC if we could possibly do a 3-way deal with the Clippers that involves sign and trading JJ Redick to the Thunder. I'm not sure what the nuances of the new CBA are with sign-and-trades but I think that JJ Redick and Austin Rivers might be enough to entice the Thunder to give up Victor Oladipo, who I'd be interested in for the Knicks. If so, I wouldn't even demand a first round from the Clippers since a deal that is in effect, Melo for Oladipo is a decent return. Melo and Courtney to LAC; JJ Redick and Austin Rivers to OKC; Victor Oladipo, Jamal Crawford, a 2020 or 2021 1st round pick swaps and some 2nd rounders would work under the cap and for me if I were the Knicks GM.

Particularly with the upcoming draft, I'd be intrigued with the potential combo of a Frank Ntilikina and Victor as my backcourt (if Frank becomes our pick). Both can get to the rim, both can reasonably space the floor, both are reasonably good ball movers and both are lengthy defenders. They could potentially operate as a remixed version of Eric Bledsoe and Goran Dragic pairing that the Suns had.

Not sure what can happen, but I like Oladipo's game and I'd be in favor of something like this.

I would not take Oladipo and his $21 mill a yr salary starting next season. He is not worth those dollars...Crawford at this point is useless...I love Crawford game but you do not maximize his potential on a rebuilding team....give me Austin, Brice and 2021, 2023 picks....ala Boston/Crooklyn trade Ainge pulled...those picks could be hidden gold in a couple of years..

That's a highly unrealistic return for Melo at this point. There will not be another trade like that nets trade any time soon.

For the amount of years the Nets gave up picks no. But a future first and a right to swap sure. Clippers are in purgatory. And were talking about trading Rivers and Crawford for Melo.