Author | Thread |
crzymdups
Posts: 52018 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 5/1/2004 Member: #671 USA |
3/21/2017 10:18 AM
nixluva wrote:crzymdups wrote:nixluva wrote:Just to get back to the question of Melo and PnR under Hornacek versus last year under Fish/Rambis. He's doing it more this year than last year. I couldn't do a split by month, which would've been more informative. At any rate Melo doesn't use PnR enough given his ability as a PnR Ball Handler.Playtype Pick & Roll Ball Handler The idea that Melo chooses how the offense is set up and calls his own number on pick and rolls is completely ridiculous. What are there coaches for anyway? Unless you have the splits about pick and roll percentage, I think you are just making stuff up from your own perception. Assists do not equal pick and rolls. But Melo's drop in assists from January and February through the rest of the season is definitely evidence something changed - Fisher coached over half the games in February - unless you have the pick and roll percentage by month, you're wasting my time. The bottom line - Fisher had Melo placed at the point forward position in the Triangle, where Melo was actually becoming a very solid playmaker. This included pick and rolls. It led to some of the highest assist numbers of Melo's career for a few months. The assist percentage means Fisher was doing a damn good job as coach, not that Melo CHOSE to run pick and rolls. That's really one of the most absurd statements you've ever made, man. ¿ △ ?
|
AUTOADVERT |
nixluva
Posts: 56258 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 10/5/2004 Member: #758 USA |
3/21/2017 10:46 AM
crzymdups wrote:nixluva wrote:crzymdups wrote:nixluva wrote:Just to get back to the question of Melo and PnR under Hornacek versus last year under Fish/Rambis. He's doing it more this year than last year. I couldn't do a split by month, which would've been more informative. At any rate Melo doesn't use PnR enough given his ability as a PnR Ball Handler.Playtype Pick & Roll Ball Handler When Melo gets the ball he MOST CERTAINLY chooses whether he wants a screen or not. I'm not sure what you're talking about since Melo holds the ball the most before actually making a move. Melo gets the MOST Pinch Post touches which is a 2 man game and if he wants to go PnR he can. Fisher was gone on Feb 8th!!! So no he did not coach over half the games. I agree that Melo was used well by Fisher but disagree that Melo is now woefully deficient at passing because of the Triangle or how he's being used. This is TOTALLY on Melo. Perhaps you simply can't see how much Melo controls the offense when he has the ball but I can assure you that he's in complete control when he has it and also if he really wanted to he would simply let his teammates know he would be looking to set them up. Stop making excuses for Melo!!! |
crzymdups
Posts: 52018 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 5/1/2004 Member: #671 USA |
3/21/2017 10:52 AM
nixluva wrote:crzymdups wrote:nixluva wrote:crzymdups wrote:nixluva wrote:Just to get back to the question of Melo and PnR under Hornacek versus last year under Fish/Rambis. He's doing it more this year than last year. I couldn't do a split by month, which would've been more informative. At any rate Melo doesn't use PnR enough given his ability as a PnR Ball Handler.Playtype Pick & Roll Ball Handler I'm not making excuses for Melo. Im saying Fisher got Melo to play a smart brand of system basketball that incorporated a lot of Triangle. Hornacek has utterly failed at that. Your idea that Melo chooses how to structure the entire offense is idiotic. I'm sorry. ¿ △ ?
|
nixluva
Posts: 56258 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 10/5/2004 Member: #758 USA |
3/21/2017 11:04 AM LAST EDITED: 3/21/2017 11:05 AM
crzymdups wrote:nixluva wrote:crzymdups wrote:nixluva wrote:crzymdups wrote:nixluva wrote:Just to get back to the question of Melo and PnR under Hornacek versus last year under Fish/Rambis. He's doing it more this year than last year. I couldn't do a split by month, which would've been more informative. At any rate Melo doesn't use PnR enough given his ability as a PnR Ball Handler.Playtype Pick & Roll Ball Handler Who's talking about structuring the "entire offense"??? I'm saying that when Melo gets the ball he is in a position to decide what happens next. Melo has chose NOT to be a playmaker more often this year and it's not something coming from the coach or the Front Office. This is ALL MELO!!! He's still getting the ball in pretty much the same ways he always has. ALso let's get real here, Hornacek is open to suggestions from his players. He's not some authoritarian, my way or the highway type coach. If Melo wanted to run more of what he did last year under Fisher he MOST CERTAINLY could ask to do that. They weren't even running the Triangle for much of the year and you think Melo didn't have options for what he wanted to do when he got the ball??? Hornacek ran more spread PnR offense than Fisher did with the Knicks!!! |
fishmike
Posts: 53028 Alba Posts: 1 Joined: 7/19/2002 Member: #298 USA |
3/21/2017 11:05 AM
crzymdups wrote:Melo can certainly decide to move the ball of hold it. It an interesting question though... why did Melo pass for Fisher but not Hornacek? Which was followed by grumpy tweets with grandpa Phil? I would love to know what really happened there. Then again who cares.. Melo/Rose need to go. I can live with lottery guys who play on both ends and a team game. If they stink we can just keep drafting. I dont care at this pointnixluva wrote:crzymdups wrote:nixluva wrote:crzymdups wrote:nixluva wrote:Just to get back to the question of Melo and PnR under Hornacek versus last year under Fish/Rambis. He's doing it more this year than last year. I couldn't do a split by month, which would've been more informative. At any rate Melo doesn't use PnR enough given his ability as a PnR Ball Handler.Playtype Pick & Roll Ball Handler "winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
|
crzymdups
Posts: 52018 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 5/1/2004 Member: #671 USA |
3/21/2017 11:15 AM
nixluva wrote:crzymdups wrote:nixluva wrote:crzymdups wrote:nixluva wrote:crzymdups wrote:nixluva wrote:Just to get back to the question of Melo and PnR under Hornacek versus last year under Fish/Rambis. He's doing it more this year than last year. I couldn't do a split by month, which would've been more informative. At any rate Melo doesn't use PnR enough given his ability as a PnR Ball Handler.Playtype Pick & Roll Ball Handler The players don't respect Hornacek. He's fine. I guarantee he will never coach a playoffs game for this team though. And, yes, we are talking about the structure of the entire offense. Melo doesn't tell the other players where to go when he passes to them. He can't mind-beam them to the right areas of the court. That's the coaching. That's the play calls. That's the structure of the entire offense. Hornacek built the wrong offense for this team. Jackson is trying to take it back to Triangle 101 now because it's clear there will be a rebuild. That's fine. But Fisher actually built a smart system for the very limited roster he had and it had Melo playing some of the best team ball of his career. Your idea that Melo CHOSE to not move the ball this year is patently absurd. I'm sorry I called it idiotic, but I have a hard time finding other words for it. ¿ △ ?
|
crzymdups
Posts: 52018 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 5/1/2004 Member: #671 USA |
3/21/2017 11:24 AM
fishmike wrote:crzymdups wrote:Melo can certainly decide to move the ball of hold it. It an interesting question though... why did Melo pass for Fisher but not Hornacek? Which was followed by grumpy tweets with grandpa Phil? I would love to know what really happened there. Then again who cares.. Melo/Rose need to go. I can live with lottery guys who play on both ends and a team game. If they stink we can just keep drafting. I dont care at this pointnixluva wrote:crzymdups wrote:nixluva wrote:crzymdups wrote:nixluva wrote:Just to get back to the question of Melo and PnR under Hornacek versus last year under Fish/Rambis. He's doing it more this year than last year. I couldn't do a split by month, which would've been more informative. At any rate Melo doesn't use PnR enough given his ability as a PnR Ball Handler.Playtype Pick & Roll Ball Handler I do think Fisher designed a system that had the other players cutting and reacting off Melo in the pinch post. Rolo was an ideal center for the Triangle and played off Melo well. The offense last year flowed better and had better movement and spacing. Maybe part of that was Calderon barely touched the ball and mainly just stationed himself outside as a knock down three point shooter. I liked Fisher. I agreed with a lot of the play calls he drew up and system he designed. The Matt Barnes situation was embarrassing, but imho not something you need to fire a guy over. The lack of communication issue with Phil... I dunno. Was he resisting Phil's desires to run a more pure Triangle and take out some of the pick and roll options he was adding to it? It also strikes me as absurd that Phil was spending large chunks of the year in CA and then complaining about Fisher not responding to texts. Phil has shown a propensity to want to be overly involved. He ran a Triangle workshop for the players last week. Maybe Fisher would refuse those things? To be honest, I think what Phil does undermines his coaching staff. The Begley story about Phil's anniversary said the players respect Hornacek less for going back to the Triangle - I can see why. They know Hornacek is not the authority and Phil is. Fisher maybe did a better job of keeping Phil's influence out and Phil didn't like that. Just a theory, but there's evidence to back it up if you look at how many more Triangle workshops Phil started running once he fired Fisher and even what Phil said in his little note when he fired Fisher. Anyway. We are all agreed it is time to move on from Melo and do a true rebuild. I just don't think Phil or Hornacek will even be here at "the end" of the rebuild. I guess we'll see. ¿ △ ?
|
nixluva
Posts: 56258 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 10/5/2004 Member: #758 USA |
3/21/2017 11:47 AM
crzymdups wrote:nixluva wrote:crzymdups wrote:nixluva wrote:crzymdups wrote:nixluva wrote:crzymdups wrote:nixluva wrote:Just to get back to the question of Melo and PnR under Hornacek versus last year under Fish/Rambis. He's doing it more this year than last year. I couldn't do a split by month, which would've been more informative. At any rate Melo doesn't use PnR enough given his ability as a PnR Ball Handler.Playtype Pick & Roll Ball Handler Your take on this is hard to fathom. You really think that Melo isn't passing the ball as much because of the offense Hornacek devised? For that to be the case Melo would have to be limited to mostly Catch and Shoot looks and that's not the case. Melo still gets a TON of Pinch Post touches as he did last year. He also still gets the ball on the perimeter as he did last year. The only real difference is that he's not looking to be a Playmaker as much this year and that is ALL ON MELO!!! Melo's Usage is exactly the same as last year. Melo's Defensive Rating is WAY WORSE and his Assist % is way down. If Melo was passing more it would be great since his offense is on the decline. He should have listened to Horny and Phil but he decided not to be a Leader and Playmaker on his own!!! |
crzymdups
Posts: 52018 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 5/1/2004 Member: #671 USA |
3/21/2017 12:41 PM
nixluva wrote:crzymdups wrote:nixluva wrote:crzymdups wrote:nixluva wrote:crzymdups wrote:nixluva wrote:crzymdups wrote:nixluva wrote:Just to get back to the question of Melo and PnR under Hornacek versus last year under Fish/Rambis. He's doing it more this year than last year. I couldn't do a split by month, which would've been more informative. At any rate Melo doesn't use PnR enough given his ability as a PnR Ball Handler.Playtype Pick & Roll Ball Handler So you don't see a difference in the way the team has been coached or runs its offense? You think the only difference has been the choices Melo makes with the ball? I don't believe you. ¿ △ ?
|
nixluva
Posts: 56258 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 10/5/2004 Member: #758 USA |
3/21/2017 12:52 PM
crzymdups wrote:nixluva wrote:crzymdups wrote:nixluva wrote:crzymdups wrote:nixluva wrote:crzymdups wrote:nixluva wrote:crzymdups wrote:nixluva wrote:Just to get back to the question of Melo and PnR under Hornacek versus last year under Fish/Rambis. He's doing it more this year than last year. I couldn't do a split by month, which would've been more informative. At any rate Melo doesn't use PnR enough given his ability as a PnR Ball Handler.Playtype Pick & Roll Ball Handler I'm saying quite clearly that Melo has the same usage and gets the Ball in the same spots pretty much and he has the same option to be a Playmaker or not. This year he has CHOSEN NOT to be a Playmaker and it has nothing to do with Hornacek. In fact I'm pretty sure he wants Melo to be more of a Playmaker. This is totally on Melo if he shoots or looks to pass or call for a screen. Once he has the ball all of those options are available on most of his touches. |
HofstraBBall
Posts: 27152 Alba Posts: 1 Joined: 11/21/2015 Member: #6192 |
3/21/2017 4:40 PM
crzymdups wrote:nixluva wrote:crzymdups wrote:nixluva wrote:Just to get back to the question of Melo and PnR under Hornacek versus last year under Fish/Rambis. He's doing it more this year than last year. I couldn't do a split by month, which would've been more informative. At any rate Melo doesn't use PnR enough given his ability as a PnR Ball Handler.Playtype Pick & Roll Ball Handler First off, props to u for posting on late game. Agree with above post. Thing I keep saying is that last year we had ROLO. Although average, he was quite good at diving to basket and finishing around the hoop. If you ]ook at games in which Melo had large number of assists, if was mostly because of Rolo having big games. We just don't have that this year. KO likes the short elbow jumper. Noah can't finish and if he gets fouled he goes to line and sometimes shoot an air ball. KP prefers popping to 3pt. line. Think Willy is probably the best PnR guy. But like you said, we have not seen much of it. Specially with Willy. 'Knicks focus should be on players that have grown up playing soccer or cricket' - Triplethreat 8/28/2020
|