Opposing players have told Knicks players Triangle is predictable and one of the easiest defensive assignments in the league.
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CrushAlot
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3/19/2017  4:42 PM
nixluva wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
nixluva wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
smackeddog wrote:You wonder how the Phil won so many championships with the triangle when apparently it was so easy to defend the whole time...
If he were coaching it might not be so easy to defend.

I don't think it's that simple. The players you have running it must be smart enough to understand how to execute in it. One of the most important roles is the SF/PF in the Pinch Post spot. Melo occupies that spot the most and he isn't helping the flow of the offense as much as he could be.

Obviously this year wasn't an effort to establish a Pure Triangle Offense! Not with Rose and BJ at PG. I think now with Randle and Baker are giving the team a chance to establish the Triangle and they look much better in it than Rose. They still need more time to continue to develop their comfort and knowledge of the offense.

KP has started passing more and posting more since they started running more Triangle. Willy is already a bit more proficient as a Post big and I think he has great upside in this style. My hope is that if the Knicks move towards using more Triangle as it appears they are, that they still look to use early offense and different looks to keep the defense guessing.

As I've said many times there's more to the Triangle Offense than the Side Triangle!!!

KP'S assists are up from 1.4 to 2.3 but his shooting percentage has dropped to 41%. Usually that goes up with more of a post up game. I agree about Willy.

Just means KP has to get used to his looks in the Triangle. He's too talented to be down for long. I can't believe you guys think the Triangle would be a problem for KP rather than it eventually being good for him. Pau and Bynum were good in the Triangle and I can imagine KP and Willy will be equally successful in it.

We tried using Melo in the MJ/Kobe role but he didn't quite make full use of the passing aspects of that position in the Pinch Post. We need a SG or SF that can be used in that role who can not only score but pass and defend at a high level. That's been missing with this team.

I think there is a lot missing with this team. I agree that KP could be competent in the triangle but I think you have to consider what Hofstra is saying. Phil is gone in a max of two years. There aren't triangle disciples to carry on with that system so it will probably a reset in philosophy. At that point KP has one year left and might choose to just sign his qualifying offer. Willy also has just one year left. The economics of the cba dictate that they should stay but I also think they would still be very young and would know if staying was wasting their career. Have to hope that the Knicks get the lottery pick right and maybe something else goes well for them this offseason. Phil has a lot to fix again.
I've seen scant proof that a majestic aura trumps a sound plan, but maybe that's just because I wasn't looking at Phil Jackson... Seth Rosenthal 2014
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nixluva
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3/19/2017  4:50 PM
CrushAlot wrote:
nixluva wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
nixluva wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
smackeddog wrote:You wonder how the Phil won so many championships with the triangle when apparently it was so easy to defend the whole time...
If he were coaching it might not be so easy to defend.

I don't think it's that simple. The players you have running it must be smart enough to understand how to execute in it. One of the most important roles is the SF/PF in the Pinch Post spot. Melo occupies that spot the most and he isn't helping the flow of the offense as much as he could be.

Obviously this year wasn't an effort to establish a Pure Triangle Offense! Not with Rose and BJ at PG. I think now with Randle and Baker are giving the team a chance to establish the Triangle and they look much better in it than Rose. They still need more time to continue to develop their comfort and knowledge of the offense.

KP has started passing more and posting more since they started running more Triangle. Willy is already a bit more proficient as a Post big and I think he has great upside in this style. My hope is that if the Knicks move towards using more Triangle as it appears they are, that they still look to use early offense and different looks to keep the defense guessing.

As I've said many times there's more to the Triangle Offense than the Side Triangle!!!

KP'S assists are up from 1.4 to 2.3 but his shooting percentage has dropped to 41%. Usually that goes up with more of a post up game. I agree about Willy.

Just means KP has to get used to his looks in the Triangle. He's too talented to be down for long. I can't believe you guys think the Triangle would be a problem for KP rather than it eventually being good for him. Pau and Bynum were good in the Triangle and I can imagine KP and Willy will be equally successful in it.

We tried using Melo in the MJ/Kobe role but he didn't quite make full use of the passing aspects of that position in the Pinch Post. We need a SG or SF that can be used in that role who can not only score but pass and defend at a high level. That's been missing with this team.

I think there is a lot missing with this team. I agree that KP could be competent in the triangle but I think you have to consider what Hofstra is saying. Phil is gone in a max of two years. There aren't triangle disciples to carry on with that system so it will probably a reset in philosophy. At that point KP has one year left and might choose to just sign his qualifying offer. Willy also has just one year left. The economics of the cba dictate that they should stay but I also think they would still be very young and would know if staying was wasting their career. Have to hope that the Knicks get the lottery pick right and maybe something else goes well for them this offseason. Phil has a lot to fix again.

Everyone assumes Phil will leave but what if he's successful over the next 2 yrs??? He might just stay on and enjoy the rise of a young team he built. A LOT can change this summer with a little luck and further development of the younger players.

ramtour420
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3/19/2017  4:59 PM
nixluva wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
nixluva wrote:
crzymdups wrote:http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/18941092/nba-unhappy-anniversary-tidings-phil-jackson-three-years-new-york

I know people get prickly about the Triangle, but this is incredibly damning.

Knicks players also saying to Begley that they think it produces too tight spacing and too many contested shots.

We've been told Phil would bring in veterans who would be suited to the Triangle. In three off seasons so far all the players he's brought in have not done well in the triangle, outside of maybe Rolo, who plays the same position as KP and Willy anyway.

I'm not looking to take down Phil or have that conversation again. But I think it certainly is worth asking why are we still committed to the Triangle? Even Hornacek didn't want to run it full time. At a certain point doesn't Phil need to agree to update or scrap the triangle? I thought we were told Hornacek would be allowed to update the Triangle, but that's been overruled.

I just question why at this point.

In this draft alone there are several players who FIT the Triangle. Josh Jackson is a perfect SF for the Triangle. He passes the ball well. Jason Tatum is a more Team Oriented version of Melo IMO. He would be effective in the Pinch Post. Lonzo Ball is also a Triangle Fit. Malik Monk and Frank Ntilikina are also Triangle Fits. I would say that even De'Aaron Fox would fit. So really there's no reason to fear the notion of looking for players that would do well in the Triangle. All that really means is that they can function well without depending on heavy PnR. They have a high BBIQ, pass the ball and defend. Those are all winning traits.

This still does not make any sense? Draft guys for Truangke. Ot wont be here un 2 years?? Let's bring in Pete Carril for one year then Paul Westphal then Paul Westhead for a year. Draft guys foe those systems. That will be great for development.


Lonzo Ball or Josh Jackson don't make sense??? All we're talking about are 2 Way Multi-skilled players that can think the game too. Those players are going to be good in any system!

Man, once again and again we hear how the triangle is not liked by players how it's easy to defend, how it is outdated. I am seriously tired of this, and this is why: when you have a complete system that incorporates such fundamentals as passing, cuts off of picks, moving without the ball, assisted 3-bombs and then you look at modern NBA players that lack those fundamentals you can pretty much put 2 and 2 together. When you have a player whose game is not complete and he is asked to do things that he is not comfortable with , you will have disgruntled players. Rose does not like the triangle: how about he learns to move without the ball, pass and shoot the 3 ball? Melo don't want to move without the ball or pass or spot up. Well too bad. Maybe work on the weak parts of your game? Nah, it's the triangle's fault. Of course brah. Jordan and Kobe excelled in it ? Why is that? Cause they complete players that's why. Do you think Reggie Miller would like the triangle? I think so , I remember us playing against him and I remember him running off of multiple screens every half court possession. Yeah he would be pretty freaking good in the triangle. Oh how about a more recent example ohh I dunno how about Ray Allen? Yep, he'd be pretty good in it as well. Draft complete players and voila they will be good in the triangle. Gee, what a concept. I rest my case.

"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one. I hope someday you'll join us and the world will be as one." -J.Lennon
crzymdups
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3/19/2017  5:12 PM
ramtour420 wrote:
nixluva wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
nixluva wrote:
crzymdups wrote:http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/18941092/nba-unhappy-anniversary-tidings-phil-jackson-three-years-new-york

I know people get prickly about the Triangle, but this is incredibly damning.

Knicks players also saying to Begley that they think it produces too tight spacing and too many contested shots.

We've been told Phil would bring in veterans who would be suited to the Triangle. In three off seasons so far all the players he's brought in have not done well in the triangle, outside of maybe Rolo, who plays the same position as KP and Willy anyway.

I'm not looking to take down Phil or have that conversation again. But I think it certainly is worth asking why are we still committed to the Triangle? Even Hornacek didn't want to run it full time. At a certain point doesn't Phil need to agree to update or scrap the triangle? I thought we were told Hornacek would be allowed to update the Triangle, but that's been overruled.

I just question why at this point.

In this draft alone there are several players who FIT the Triangle. Josh Jackson is a perfect SF for the Triangle. He passes the ball well. Jason Tatum is a more Team Oriented version of Melo IMO. He would be effective in the Pinch Post. Lonzo Ball is also a Triangle Fit. Malik Monk and Frank Ntilikina are also Triangle Fits. I would say that even De'Aaron Fox would fit. So really there's no reason to fear the notion of looking for players that would do well in the Triangle. All that really means is that they can function well without depending on heavy PnR. They have a high BBIQ, pass the ball and defend. Those are all winning traits.

This still does not make any sense? Draft guys for Truangke. Ot wont be here un 2 years?? Let's bring in Pete Carril for one year then Paul Westphal then Paul Westhead for a year. Draft guys foe those systems. That will be great for development.


Lonzo Ball or Josh Jackson don't make sense??? All we're talking about are 2 Way Multi-skilled players that can think the game too. Those players are going to be good in any system!

Man, once again and again we hear how the triangle is not liked by players how it's easy to defend, how it is outdated. I am seriously tired of this, and this is why: when you have a complete system that incorporates such fundamentals as passing, cuts off of picks, moving without the ball, assisted 3-bombs and then you look at modern NBA players that lack those fundamentals you can pretty much put 2 and 2 together. When you have a player whose game is not complete and he is asked to do things that he is not comfortable with , you will have disgruntled players. Rose does not like the triangle: how about he learns to move without the ball, pass and shoot the 3 ball? Melo don't want to move without the ball or pass or spot up. Well too bad. Maybe work on the weak parts of your game? Nah, it's the triangle's fault. Of course brah. Jordan and Kobe excelled in it ? Why is that? Cause they complete players that's why. Do you think Reggie Miller would like the triangle? I think so , I remember us playing against him and I remember him running off of multiple screens every half court possession. Yeah he would be pretty freaking good in the triangle. Oh how about a more recent example ohh I dunno how about Ray Allen? Yep, he'd be pretty good in it as well. Draft complete players and voila they will be good in the triangle. Gee, what a concept. I rest my case.

Man if only Phil had had some way to figure out how Rose plays. The guy is a nine year NBA veteran. If Rose's game was going to be such a poor fit for the Triangle, maybe Phil shouldn't have traded for him. It's not like he was saddled with Rose by some previous gm. And he re-signed Melo as well. And gave him a no trade clause. You can't blame the players for doing what they've always done repeatedly. At some point you have to look at the guy who not only assemble the group but also the coach and told them which system they had to use. He's literally responsible for every single piece of this equation. You can cut Phil slack by saying there were not a lot of draft picks here or a lot of young pieces when he got here. But everything else has been choices he's made.

And I can understand some of them. But I don't understand the constant insistence on the triangle. Did Kobe and MJ succeed in it? Yes. They were two of the greatest, most cerebral players of all time and once in a generation athletes. Rose and Melo are not Jordan and Kobe. And guess what? Those Bulls and Lakers team went iso a lot late in games to get MJ and Kobe the damn ball and let them go to work. When Melo goes Iso here people gripe and moan. Kobe and MJ would go iso all the time. Particularly at the end of games.

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crzymdups
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3/19/2017  5:14 PM
nixluva wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
nixluva wrote:
crzymdups wrote:http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/18941092/nba-unhappy-anniversary-tidings-phil-jackson-three-years-new-york

I know people get prickly about the Triangle, but this is incredibly damning.

Knicks players also saying to Begley that they think it produces too tight spacing and too many contested shots.

We've been told Phil would bring in veterans who would be suited to the Triangle. In three off seasons so far all the players he's brought in have not done well in the triangle, outside of maybe Rolo, who plays the same position as KP and Willy anyway.

I'm not looking to take down Phil or have that conversation again. But I think it certainly is worth asking why are we still committed to the Triangle? Even Hornacek didn't want to run it full time. At a certain point doesn't Phil need to agree to update or scrap the triangle? I thought we were told Hornacek would be allowed to update the Triangle, but that's been overruled.

I just question why at this point.

In this draft alone there are several players who FIT the Triangle. Josh Jackson is a perfect SF for the Triangle. He passes the ball well. Jason Tatum is a more Team Oriented version of Melo IMO. He would be effective in the Pinch Post. Lonzo Ball is also a Triangle Fit. Malik Monk and Frank Ntilikina are also Triangle Fits. I would say that even De'Aaron Fox would fit. So really there's no reason to fear the notion of looking for players that would do well in the Triangle. All that really means is that they can function well without depending on heavy PnR. They have a high BBIQ, pass the ball and defend. Those are all winning traits.

This still does not make any sense? Draft guys for Truangke. Ot wont be here un 2 years?? Let's bring in Pete Carril for one year then Paul Westphal then Paul Westhead for a year. Draft guys foe those systems. That will be great for development.


Lonzo Ball or Josh Jackson don't make sense??? All we're talking about are 2 Way Multi-skilled players that can think the game too. Those players are going to be good in any system!

My point exactly. If they're going to be good in any system - why the Triangle? Why not design a system for whoever we get and KP and Willy?

Also the chances we get Ball or Jackson are about 10%. Realistically we would be lucky to get Fox or Monk or Ntilikina

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ramtour420
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3/19/2017  5:41 PM    LAST EDITED: 3/19/2017  5:43 PM
crzymdups wrote:
ramtour420 wrote:
nixluva wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
nixluva wrote:
crzymdups wrote:http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/18941092/nba-unhappy-anniversary-tidings-phil-jackson-three-years-new-york

I know people get prickly about the Triangle, but this is incredibly damning.

Knicks players also saying to Begley that they think it produces too tight spacing and too many contested shots.

We've been told Phil would bring in veterans who would be suited to the Triangle. In three off seasons so far all the players he's brought in have not done well in the triangle, outside of maybe Rolo, who plays the same position as KP and Willy anyway.

I'm not looking to take down Phil or have that conversation again. But I think it certainly is worth asking why are we still committed to the Triangle? Even Hornacek didn't want to run it full time. At a certain point doesn't Phil need to agree to update or scrap the triangle? I thought we were told Hornacek would be allowed to update the Triangle, but that's been overruled.

I just question why at this point.

In this draft alone there are several players who FIT the Triangle. Josh Jackson is a perfect SF for the Triangle. He passes the ball well. Jason Tatum is a more Team Oriented version of Melo IMO. He would be effective in the Pinch Post. Lonzo Ball is also a Triangle Fit. Malik Monk and Frank Ntilikina are also Triangle Fits. I would say that even De'Aaron Fox would fit. So really there's no reason to fear the notion of looking for players that would do well in the Triangle. All that really means is that they can function well without depending on heavy PnR. They have a high BBIQ, pass the ball and defend. Those are all winning traits.

This still does not make any sense? Draft guys for Truangke. Ot wont be here un 2 years?? Let's bring in Pete Carril for one year then Paul Westphal then Paul Westhead for a year. Draft guys foe those systems. That will be great for development.


Lonzo Ball or Josh Jackson don't make sense??? All we're talking about are 2 Way Multi-skilled players that can think the game too. Those players are going to be good in any system!

Man, once again and again we hear how the triangle is not liked by players how it's easy to defend, how it is outdated. I am seriously tired of this, and this is why: when you have a complete system that incorporates such fundamentals as passing, cuts off of picks, moving without the ball, assisted 3-bombs and then you look at modern NBA players that lack those fundamentals you can pretty much put 2 and 2 together. When you have a player whose game is not complete and he is asked to do things that he is not comfortable with , you will have disgruntled players. Rose does not like the triangle: how about he learns to move without the ball, pass and shoot the 3 ball? Melo don't want to move without the ball or pass or spot up. Well too bad. Maybe work on the weak parts of your game? Nah, it's the triangle's fault. Of course brah. Jordan and Kobe excelled in it ? Why is that? Cause they complete players that's why. Do you think Reggie Miller would like the triangle? I think so , I remember us playing against him and I remember him running off of multiple screens every half court possession. Yeah he would be pretty freaking good in the triangle. Oh how about a more recent example ohh I dunno how about Ray Allen? Yep, he'd be pretty good in it as well. Draft complete players and voila they will be good in the triangle. Gee, what a concept. I rest my case.

Man if only Phil had had some way to figure out how Rose plays. The guy is a nine year NBA veteran. If Rose's game was going to be such a poor fit for the Triangle, maybe Phil shouldn't have traded for him. It's not like he was saddled with Rose by some previous gm. And he re-signed Melo as well. And gave him a no trade clause. You can't blame the players for doing what they've always done repeatedly. At some point you have to look at the guy who not only assemble the group but also the coach and told them which system they had to use. He's literally responsible for every single piece of this equation. You can cut Phil slack by saying there were not a lot of draft picks here or a lot of young pieces when he got here. But everything else has been choices he's made.

And I can understand some of them. But I don't understand the constant insistence on the triangle. Did Kobe and MJ succeed in it? Yes. They were two of the greatest, most cerebral players of all time and once in a generation athletes. Rose and Melo are not Jordan and Kobe. And guess what? Those Bulls and Lakers team went iso a lot late in games to get MJ and Kobe the damn ball and let them go to work. When Melo goes Iso here people gripe and moan. Kobe and MJ would go iso all the time. Particularly at the end of games.

Valid point. But look at it this way, Jordan and Kobe evolved as players and pushed themselves to become who they were. That's what made them great. We got Melo and Rose. Did anyone stop them from fixing holes in their game? Did we not put them in one of the best situations in their careers to do so? We took a chance with them, one former MVP and another former scoring champion. It's was up to them and they both disappointed. They could have become much better ball players but oh well. Yes those were big gambles on star players that CHOSE not to become elite. Unlike MJ and KB. The rest of the players Phil brought in were much more complete( or ready for triangle, however you want to look at it) And no one said that ISO should never ever been used, but don't forget about those key game winning shots that the role playes on those teams made because of the system.

"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one. I hope someday you'll join us and the world will be as one." -J.Lennon
crzymdups
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3/19/2017  5:55 PM
ramtour420 wrote:
crzymdups wrote:
ramtour420 wrote:
nixluva wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
nixluva wrote:
crzymdups wrote:http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/18941092/nba-unhappy-anniversary-tidings-phil-jackson-three-years-new-york

I know people get prickly about the Triangle, but this is incredibly damning.

Knicks players also saying to Begley that they think it produces too tight spacing and too many contested shots.

We've been told Phil would bring in veterans who would be suited to the Triangle. In three off seasons so far all the players he's brought in have not done well in the triangle, outside of maybe Rolo, who plays the same position as KP and Willy anyway.

I'm not looking to take down Phil or have that conversation again. But I think it certainly is worth asking why are we still committed to the Triangle? Even Hornacek didn't want to run it full time. At a certain point doesn't Phil need to agree to update or scrap the triangle? I thought we were told Hornacek would be allowed to update the Triangle, but that's been overruled.

I just question why at this point.

In this draft alone there are several players who FIT the Triangle. Josh Jackson is a perfect SF for the Triangle. He passes the ball well. Jason Tatum is a more Team Oriented version of Melo IMO. He would be effective in the Pinch Post. Lonzo Ball is also a Triangle Fit. Malik Monk and Frank Ntilikina are also Triangle Fits. I would say that even De'Aaron Fox would fit. So really there's no reason to fear the notion of looking for players that would do well in the Triangle. All that really means is that they can function well without depending on heavy PnR. They have a high BBIQ, pass the ball and defend. Those are all winning traits.

This still does not make any sense? Draft guys for Truangke. Ot wont be here un 2 years?? Let's bring in Pete Carril for one year then Paul Westphal then Paul Westhead for a year. Draft guys foe those systems. That will be great for development.


Lonzo Ball or Josh Jackson don't make sense??? All we're talking about are 2 Way Multi-skilled players that can think the game too. Those players are going to be good in any system!

Man, once again and again we hear how the triangle is not liked by players how it's easy to defend, how it is outdated. I am seriously tired of this, and this is why: when you have a complete system that incorporates such fundamentals as passing, cuts off of picks, moving without the ball, assisted 3-bombs and then you look at modern NBA players that lack those fundamentals you can pretty much put 2 and 2 together. When you have a player whose game is not complete and he is asked to do things that he is not comfortable with , you will have disgruntled players. Rose does not like the triangle: how about he learns to move without the ball, pass and shoot the 3 ball? Melo don't want to move without the ball or pass or spot up. Well too bad. Maybe work on the weak parts of your game? Nah, it's the triangle's fault. Of course brah. Jordan and Kobe excelled in it ? Why is that? Cause they complete players that's why. Do you think Reggie Miller would like the triangle? I think so , I remember us playing against him and I remember him running off of multiple screens every half court possession. Yeah he would be pretty freaking good in the triangle. Oh how about a more recent example ohh I dunno how about Ray Allen? Yep, he'd be pretty good in it as well. Draft complete players and voila they will be good in the triangle. Gee, what a concept. I rest my case.

Man if only Phil had had some way to figure out how Rose plays. The guy is a nine year NBA veteran. If Rose's game was going to be such a poor fit for the Triangle, maybe Phil shouldn't have traded for him. It's not like he was saddled with Rose by some previous gm. And he re-signed Melo as well. And gave him a no trade clause. You can't blame the players for doing what they've always done repeatedly. At some point you have to look at the guy who not only assemble the group but also the coach and told them which system they had to use. He's literally responsible for every single piece of this equation. You can cut Phil slack by saying there were not a lot of draft picks here or a lot of young pieces when he got here. But everything else has been choices he's made.

And I can understand some of them. But I don't understand the constant insistence on the triangle. Did Kobe and MJ succeed in it? Yes. They were two of the greatest, most cerebral players of all time and once in a generation athletes. Rose and Melo are not Jordan and Kobe. And guess what? Those Bulls and Lakers team went iso a lot late in games to get MJ and Kobe the damn ball and let them go to work. When Melo goes Iso here people gripe and moan. Kobe and MJ would go iso all the time. Particularly at the end of games.

Valid point. But look at it this way, Jordan and Kobe evolved as players and pushed themselves to become who they were. That's what made them great. We got Melo and Rose. Did anyone stop them from fixing holes in their game? Did we not put them in one of the best situations in their careers to do so? We took a chance with them, one former MVP and another former scoring champion. It's was up to them and they both disappointed. They could have become much better ball players but oh well. Yes those were big gambles on star players that CHOSE not to become elite. Unlike MJ and KB. The rest of the players Phil brought in were much more complete( or ready for triangle, however you want to look at it) And no one said that ISO should never ever been used, but don't forget about those key game winning shots that the role playes on those teams made because of the system.

That's fair. Though Rose and Melo are not really in their primes anymore. They may have hit their ceilings earlier in their career. I think maybe scoring champion is Melo's ceiling as a player. And Rose's 25ppg MVP season might've been his - and that's when he was way younger and hadn't had a knee injury sap him of his bounce and some confidence to make his reckless crashes to the rim.

Anyway, you can blame the players for not moving the ball more. But it's also a situation where you can't expect a guy like Melo to just change his game overnight and become a playmaker. Playmaking passing and court vision is a skill. It may just be one Melo doesn't have. I'm not sure I believe a guy can choose to become a visionary passer like Lebron is. I think it's a skill set some guys are born with and some guys are not. Melo has tried to move the ball at points here. He definitely did under fisher (which is why I'm still upset Phil fired fisher so early on when the team was playing great ball until Melo, Lance, and Calderon all got injured at the same time.) I get the Barnes thing was a problem. But it's not like situations like that haven't happened before. Didn't Tony Parker seduce Brent Barry's wife or something? It's not like the Spurs traded Parker.

Anyway, it is what it is. But I just don't know if the continued insistence on the triangle will get us anywhere. We're in year three of Phil. Do we really think we can install it and get it humming by year five? Will Phil be re-signed at age 73? Or will he want to just retire? I just question the commitment we should have to this thing at this stage. If Phil retires is there anyone on the staff we'd trust to keep the triangle going? I hope the answer is not Rambis.

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Vmart
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3/19/2017  6:05 PM
If it is so predictable why aren't the Knicks having problems scoring. They seem to be doing that well. If anything is predictable about the Knicks it is that they will give less than max effort on the defensive side.
crzymdups
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3/19/2017  6:57 PM
Vmart wrote:If it is so predictable why aren't the Knicks having problems scoring. They seem to be doing that well. If anything is predictable about the Knicks it is that they will give less than max effort on the defensive side.

If the offense isn't the problem, why did Phil go back to the triangle in the first place? They were scoring more ppg before going back to the triangle.

Before the allstar break they were scoring 105ppg

Since the allstar break they're scoring 100.6ppg

So... Why'd they go back to the triangle if defense was the problem?

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crzymdups
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3/19/2017  7:00 PM
Average score per game in the NBA this year is 105. So the Knicks went from having a slightly above average offense to an offense well below average by going back to the triangle.
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HofstraBBall
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3/19/2017  7:53 PM
nixluva wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
nixluva wrote:
crzymdups wrote:http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/18941092/nba-unhappy-anniversary-tidings-phil-jackson-three-years-new-york

I know people get prickly about the Triangle, but this is incredibly damning.

Knicks players also saying to Begley that they think it produces too tight spacing and too many contested shots.

We've been told Phil would bring in veterans who would be suited to the Triangle. In three off seasons so far all the players he's brought in have not done well in the triangle, outside of maybe Rolo, who plays the same position as KP and Willy anyway.

I'm not looking to take down Phil or have that conversation again. But I think it certainly is worth asking why are we still committed to the Triangle? Even Hornacek didn't want to run it full time. At a certain point doesn't Phil need to agree to update or scrap the triangle? I thought we were told Hornacek would be allowed to update the Triangle, but that's been overruled.

I just question why at this point.

In this draft alone there are several players who FIT the Triangle. Josh Jackson is a perfect SF for the Triangle. He passes the ball well. Jason Tatum is a more Team Oriented version of Melo IMO. He would be effective in the Pinch Post. Lonzo Ball is also a Triangle Fit. Malik Monk and Frank Ntilikina are also Triangle Fits. I would say that even De'Aaron Fox would fit. So really there's no reason to fear the notion of looking for players that would do well in the Triangle. All that really means is that they can function well without depending on heavy PnR. They have a high BBIQ, pass the ball and defend. Those are all winning traits.

This still does not make any sense? Draft guys for Truangke. Ot wont be here un 2 years?? Let's bring in Pete Carril for one year then Paul Westphal then Paul Westhead for a year. Draft guys foe those systems. That will be great for development.


Lonzo Ball or Josh Jackson don't make sense??? All we're talking about are 2 Way Multi-skilled players that can think the game too. Those players are going to be good in any system!

Now your mixing words. Yes, it makes no sense to draft guys to fit Triangle! And ofcourse those two are good picks, but niw because they fit the F..in Triangle? For your information, Kansas runs a spread. UCLA runs a speed ball offense. Nothing close to the slow ass Triangle. But you think they fit the Triangle??

nykshaknbake
Posts: 21771
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3/19/2017  8:12 PM
ramtour420 wrote:
nixluva wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
nixluva wrote:
crzymdups wrote:http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/18941092/nba-unhappy-anniversary-tidings-phil-jackson-three-years-new-york

I know people get prickly about the Triangle, but this is incredibly damning.

Knicks players also saying to Begley that they think it produces too tight spacing and too many contested shots.

We've been told Phil would bring in veterans who would be suited to the Triangle. In three off seasons so far all the players he's brought in have not done well in the triangle, outside of maybe Rolo, who plays the same position as KP and Willy anyway.

I'm not looking to take down Phil or have that conversation again. But I think it certainly is worth asking why are we still committed to the Triangle? Even Hornacek didn't want to run it full time. At a certain point doesn't Phil need to agree to update or scrap the triangle? I thought we were told Hornacek would be allowed to update the Triangle, but that's been overruled.

I just question why at this point.

In this draft alone there are several players who FIT the Triangle. Josh Jackson is a perfect SF for the Triangle. He passes the ball well. Jason Tatum is a more Team Oriented version of Melo IMO. He would be effective in the Pinch Post. Lonzo Ball is also a Triangle Fit. Malik Monk and Frank Ntilikina are also Triangle Fits. I would say that even De'Aaron Fox would fit. So really there's no reason to fear the notion of looking for players that would do well in the Triangle. All that really means is that they can function well without depending on heavy PnR. They have a high BBIQ, pass the ball and defend. Those are all winning traits.

This still does not make any sense? Draft guys for Truangke. Ot wont be here un 2 years?? Let's bring in Pete Carril for one year then Paul Westphal then Paul Westhead for a year. Draft guys foe those systems. That will be great for development.


Lonzo Ball or Josh Jackson don't make sense??? All we're talking about are 2 Way Multi-skilled players that can think the game too. Those players are going to be good in any system!

Man, once again and again we hear how the triangle is not liked by players how it's easy to defend, how it is outdated. I am seriously tired of this, and this is why: when you have a complete system that incorporates such fundamentals as passing, cuts off of picks, moving without the ball, assisted 3-bombs and then you look at modern NBA players that lack those fundamentals you can pretty much put 2 and 2 together. When you have a player whose game is not complete and he is asked to do things that he is not comfortable with , you will have disgruntled players. Rose does not like the triangle: how about he learns to move without the ball, pass and shoot the 3 ball? Melo don't want to move without the ball or pass or spot up. Well too bad. Maybe work on the weak parts of your game? Nah, it's the triangle's fault. Of course brah. Jordan and Kobe excelled in it ? Why is that? Cause they complete players that's why. Do you think Reggie Miller would like the triangle? I think so , I remember us playing against him and I remember him running off of multiple screens every half court possession. Yeah he would be pretty freaking good in the triangle. Oh how about a more recent example ohh I dunno how about Ray Allen? Yep, he'd be pretty good in it as well. Draft complete players and voila they will be good in the triangle. Gee, what a concept. I rest my case.

We've been through dozens of players and we can't find our Kobe, Jordan or whoever else excelled at the triangle. Maybe it's a great system that is so awesome only a few players a generation can lead it well. Complete 2 way players are a rarity these days and at a premium, so if we need that to even begin to run it competently it's going to continue to be a tough go. We don't even know if we have a coach that can run it well or if one will be available later. Bottom line is I don't think we have a fair shot at implementing it.

nixluva
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3/19/2017  8:16 PM
HofstraBBall wrote:
nixluva wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
nixluva wrote:
crzymdups wrote:http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/18941092/nba-unhappy-anniversary-tidings-phil-jackson-three-years-new-york

I know people get prickly about the Triangle, but this is incredibly damning.

Knicks players also saying to Begley that they think it produces too tight spacing and too many contested shots.

We've been told Phil would bring in veterans who would be suited to the Triangle. In three off seasons so far all the players he's brought in have not done well in the triangle, outside of maybe Rolo, who plays the same position as KP and Willy anyway.

I'm not looking to take down Phil or have that conversation again. But I think it certainly is worth asking why are we still committed to the Triangle? Even Hornacek didn't want to run it full time. At a certain point doesn't Phil need to agree to update or scrap the triangle? I thought we were told Hornacek would be allowed to update the Triangle, but that's been overruled.

I just question why at this point.

In this draft alone there are several players who FIT the Triangle. Josh Jackson is a perfect SF for the Triangle. He passes the ball well. Jason Tatum is a more Team Oriented version of Melo IMO. He would be effective in the Pinch Post. Lonzo Ball is also a Triangle Fit. Malik Monk and Frank Ntilikina are also Triangle Fits. I would say that even De'Aaron Fox would fit. So really there's no reason to fear the notion of looking for players that would do well in the Triangle. All that really means is that they can function well without depending on heavy PnR. They have a high BBIQ, pass the ball and defend. Those are all winning traits.

This still does not make any sense? Draft guys for Truangke. Ot wont be here un 2 years?? Let's bring in Pete Carril for one year then Paul Westphal then Paul Westhead for a year. Draft guys foe those systems. That will be great for development.


Lonzo Ball or Josh Jackson don't make sense??? All we're talking about are 2 Way Multi-skilled players that can think the game too. Those players are going to be good in any system!

Now your mixing words. Yes, it makes no sense to draft guys to fit Triangle! And ofcourse those two are good picks, but niw because they fit the F..in Triangle? For your information, Kansas runs a spread. UCLA runs a speed ball offense. Nothing close to the slow ass Triangle. But you think they fit the Triangle??


It's about the SKILLS of the player not the system they're playing in on their college team!!! Players that have Low BB IQ, don't pass it well, are Ball Dominant and can't play without the ball effectively don't fit. MANY of the players at the top of this draft are capable of playing a Team Oriented style of play. For the most part the only thing that is sure is that a PG that can't think the game and can only run PnR is going to be the wrong guy for this system.

Just so we're clear here, the Triangle is an entire system and within that system you can play fast or slow. Full or Half court. It's not just one thing. I really wish people knew WTF they were talking about when discussing this but so many people think they know the offense when they don't know a damn thing about it. The Triangle is not the problem when it comes to finding quality basketball players. The Triangle never stopped good players from being good or great players from being GREAT!!!

nyknickzingis
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3/19/2017  8:20 PM
I'm still waiting for OP to answer about where he got that Phil was trading the 2018 picks in the Teague or other trade talks when Ian Begley (same source used for this thread) contradicted it
martin
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3/19/2017  8:21 PM
nykshaknbake wrote:
ramtour420 wrote:
nixluva wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
nixluva wrote:
crzymdups wrote:http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/18941092/nba-unhappy-anniversary-tidings-phil-jackson-three-years-new-york

I know people get prickly about the Triangle, but this is incredibly damning.

Knicks players also saying to Begley that they think it produces too tight spacing and too many contested shots.

We've been told Phil would bring in veterans who would be suited to the Triangle. In three off seasons so far all the players he's brought in have not done well in the triangle, outside of maybe Rolo, who plays the same position as KP and Willy anyway.

I'm not looking to take down Phil or have that conversation again. But I think it certainly is worth asking why are we still committed to the Triangle? Even Hornacek didn't want to run it full time. At a certain point doesn't Phil need to agree to update or scrap the triangle? I thought we were told Hornacek would be allowed to update the Triangle, but that's been overruled.

I just question why at this point.

In this draft alone there are several players who FIT the Triangle. Josh Jackson is a perfect SF for the Triangle. He passes the ball well. Jason Tatum is a more Team Oriented version of Melo IMO. He would be effective in the Pinch Post. Lonzo Ball is also a Triangle Fit. Malik Monk and Frank Ntilikina are also Triangle Fits. I would say that even De'Aaron Fox would fit. So really there's no reason to fear the notion of looking for players that would do well in the Triangle. All that really means is that they can function well without depending on heavy PnR. They have a high BBIQ, pass the ball and defend. Those are all winning traits.

This still does not make any sense? Draft guys for Truangke. Ot wont be here un 2 years?? Let's bring in Pete Carril for one year then Paul Westphal then Paul Westhead for a year. Draft guys foe those systems. That will be great for development.


Lonzo Ball or Josh Jackson don't make sense??? All we're talking about are 2 Way Multi-skilled players that can think the game too. Those players are going to be good in any system!

Man, once again and again we hear how the triangle is not liked by players how it's easy to defend, how it is outdated. I am seriously tired of this, and this is why: when you have a complete system that incorporates such fundamentals as passing, cuts off of picks, moving without the ball, assisted 3-bombs and then you look at modern NBA players that lack those fundamentals you can pretty much put 2 and 2 together. When you have a player whose game is not complete and he is asked to do things that he is not comfortable with , you will have disgruntled players. Rose does not like the triangle: how about he learns to move without the ball, pass and shoot the 3 ball? Melo don't want to move without the ball or pass or spot up. Well too bad. Maybe work on the weak parts of your game? Nah, it's the triangle's fault. Of course brah. Jordan and Kobe excelled in it ? Why is that? Cause they complete players that's why. Do you think Reggie Miller would like the triangle? I think so , I remember us playing against him and I remember him running off of multiple screens every half court possession. Yeah he would be pretty freaking good in the triangle. Oh how about a more recent example ohh I dunno how about Ray Allen? Yep, he'd be pretty good in it as well. Draft complete players and voila they will be good in the triangle. Gee, what a concept. I rest my case.

We've been through dozens of players and we can't find our Kobe, Jordan or whoever else excelled at the triangle. Maybe it's a great system that is so awesome only a few players a generation can lead it well. Complete 2 way players are a rarity these days and at a premium, so if we need that to even begin to run it competently it's going to continue to be a tough go. We don't even know if we have a coach that can run it well or if one will be available later. Bottom line is I don't think we have a fair shot at implementing it.

You really feel this way? 1 first round pick in 3 years? You think Larkin, Shved, Gallo, Shump, JRSmith and a whole ton of crap that you would like to keep and play something else? The players the Knicks have had over the past 2-3 season have not been good, and that's why you need to turn them over and get better talent. Still not there. Organization needs to keep working.

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nykshaknbake
Posts: 21771
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3/19/2017  8:44 PM    LAST EDITED: 3/19/2017  8:47 PM
martin wrote:
nykshaknbake wrote:
ramtour420 wrote:
nixluva wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
nixluva wrote:
crzymdups wrote:http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/18941092/nba-unhappy-anniversary-tidings-phil-jackson-three-years-new-york

I know people get prickly about the Triangle, but this is incredibly damning.

Knicks players also saying to Begley that they think it produces too tight spacing and too many contested shots.

We've been told Phil would bring in veterans who would be suited to the Triangle. In three off seasons so far all the players he's brought in have not done well in the triangle, outside of maybe Rolo, who plays the same position as KP and Willy anyway.

I'm not looking to take down Phil or have that conversation again. But I think it certainly is worth asking why are we still committed to the Triangle? Even Hornacek didn't want to run it full time. At a certain point doesn't Phil need to agree to update or scrap the triangle? I thought we were told Hornacek would be allowed to update the Triangle, but that's been overruled.

I just question why at this point.

In this draft alone there are several players who FIT the Triangle. Josh Jackson is a perfect SF for the Triangle. He passes the ball well. Jason Tatum is a more Team Oriented version of Melo IMO. He would be effective in the Pinch Post. Lonzo Ball is also a Triangle Fit. Malik Monk and Frank Ntilikina are also Triangle Fits. I would say that even De'Aaron Fox would fit. So really there's no reason to fear the notion of looking for players that would do well in the Triangle. All that really means is that they can function well without depending on heavy PnR. They have a high BBIQ, pass the ball and defend. Those are all winning traits.

This still does not make any sense? Draft guys for Truangke. Ot wont be here un 2 years?? Let's bring in Pete Carril for one year then Paul Westphal then Paul Westhead for a year. Draft guys foe those systems. That will be great for development.


Lonzo Ball or Josh Jackson don't make sense??? All we're talking about are 2 Way Multi-skilled players that can think the game too. Those players are going to be good in any system!

Man, once again and again we hear how the triangle is not liked by players how it's easy to defend, how it is outdated. I am seriously tired of this, and this is why: when you have a complete system that incorporates such fundamentals as passing, cuts off of picks, moving without the ball, assisted 3-bombs and then you look at modern NBA players that lack those fundamentals you can pretty much put 2 and 2 together. When you have a player whose game is not complete and he is asked to do things that he is not comfortable with , you will have disgruntled players. Rose does not like the triangle: how about he learns to move without the ball, pass and shoot the 3 ball? Melo don't want to move without the ball or pass or spot up. Well too bad. Maybe work on the weak parts of your game? Nah, it's the triangle's fault. Of course brah. Jordan and Kobe excelled in it ? Why is that? Cause they complete players that's why. Do you think Reggie Miller would like the triangle? I think so , I remember us playing against him and I remember him running off of multiple screens every half court possession. Yeah he would be pretty freaking good in the triangle. Oh how about a more recent example ohh I dunno how about Ray Allen? Yep, he'd be pretty good in it as well. Draft complete players and voila they will be good in the triangle. Gee, what a concept. I rest my case.

We've been through dozens of players and we can't find our Kobe, Jordan or whoever else excelled at the triangle. Maybe it's a great system that is so awesome only a few players a generation can lead it well. Complete 2 way players are a rarity these days and at a premium, so if we need that to even begin to run it competently it's going to continue to be a tough go. We don't even know if we have a coach that can run it well or if one will be available later. Bottom line is I don't think we have a fair shot at implementing it.

You really feel this way? 1 first round pick in 3 years? You think Larkin, Shved, Gallo, Shump, JRSmith and a whole ton of crap that you would like to keep and play something else? The players the Knicks have had over the past 2-3 season have not been good, and that's why you need to turn them over and get better talent. Still not there. Organization needs to keep working.

JR has actually been a pretty integral part of a championship team. Gallo is a good player. Derrick Williams has actually proved pretty serviceable on an elite team as well. People around here have a high opinion of Courtney Lee, Lance Thomas and Willy H. KP is clearly talented. If Carmelo was making half his salary people would be very happy to have him. Brandon Jennings is a decent player. Rose is a good driver albeit probably a minus player overall. So I wouldn't say there has been no talent in the past 3 years. At the beginning of the season quite a few were predicting us to win mid to high 40s based on talent we had.

The point is we keep pointing to Kobe and Jordan and how we we don't have them and how good we could be if Melo was really Lebron to rationalize why the triangle isn't even remotely successful. But those kind of guys don't come by often. We have had 3 years with the master of the triangle acquiring pieces for us to fit his system and we're no closer than when we started. He probably will be gone in 2 years and we still don't have a triangle coach. It's not all coming together in 2 years when we will be changing systems by default.

If you believe in the triangle I won't challenge that. It has won 11 championships. A stone bunker is a great place to put a machine gun nest. But if you don't have time to build a bunker before the enemy comes, you pile on the sandbags and do what you can. BY the time Phil leaves and the triangle goes we'll still be only putting in the floor of the bunker.

HofstraBBall
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3/19/2017  8:51 PM
nixluva wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
nixluva wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
nixluva wrote:
crzymdups wrote:http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/18941092/nba-unhappy-anniversary-tidings-phil-jackson-three-years-new-york

I know people get prickly about the Triangle, but this is incredibly damning.

Knicks players also saying to Begley that they think it produces too tight spacing and too many contested shots.

We've been told Phil would bring in veterans who would be suited to the Triangle. In three off seasons so far all the players he's brought in have not done well in the triangle, outside of maybe Rolo, who plays the same position as KP and Willy anyway.

I'm not looking to take down Phil or have that conversation again. But I think it certainly is worth asking why are we still committed to the Triangle? Even Hornacek didn't want to run it full time. At a certain point doesn't Phil need to agree to update or scrap the triangle? I thought we were told Hornacek would be allowed to update the Triangle, but that's been overruled.

I just question why at this point.

In this draft alone there are several players who FIT the Triangle. Josh Jackson is a perfect SF for the Triangle. He passes the ball well. Jason Tatum is a more Team Oriented version of Melo IMO. He would be effective in the Pinch Post. Lonzo Ball is also a Triangle Fit. Malik Monk and Frank Ntilikina are also Triangle Fits. I would say that even De'Aaron Fox would fit. So really there's no reason to fear the notion of looking for players that would do well in the Triangle. All that really means is that they can function well without depending on heavy PnR. They have a high BBIQ, pass the ball and defend. Those are all winning traits.

This still does not make any sense? Draft guys for Truangke. Ot wont be here un 2 years?? Let's bring in Pete Carril for one year then Paul Westphal then Paul Westhead for a year. Draft guys foe those systems. That will be great for development.


Lonzo Ball or Josh Jackson don't make sense??? All we're talking about are 2 Way Multi-skilled players that can think the game too. Those players are going to be good in any system!

Now your mixing words. Yes, it makes no sense to draft guys to fit Triangle! And ofcourse those two are good picks, but niw because they fit the F..in Triangle? For your information, Kansas runs a spread. UCLA runs a speed ball offense. Nothing close to the slow ass Triangle. But you think they fit the Triangle??


It's about the SKILLS of the player not the system they're playing in on their college team!!! Players that have Low BB IQ, don't pass it well, are Ball Dominant and can't play without the ball effectively don't fit. MANY of the players at the top of this draft are capable of playing a Team Oriented style of play. For the most part the only thing that is sure is that a PG that can't think the game and can only run PnR is going to be the wrong guy for this system.

Just so we're clear here, the Triangle is an entire system and within that system you can play fast or slow. Full or Half court. It's not just one thing. I really wish people knew WTF they were talking about when discussing this but so many people think they know the offense when they don't know a damn thing about it. The Triangle is not the problem when it comes to finding quality basketball players. The Triangle never stopped good players from being good or great players from being GREAT!!!

You were making sense in the first paragraph. As picking good players has nothing to do with the Triangle. Opposite your point and what I was suggesting. It seems more like you don't know WTF you are talking about when it comes to the Triangle. Furthermore, I know you watch the games, but you may have not noticed or just don't get it, NO ONE in the last three years has learned or has come close to the Magical Unicorn version of the Triangle you speak of. For that matter, The one that we run is slow, easy to read and needs many more years of Phil himself teaching it on daily basis. NOT THE ONE YOU THINK IT IS. Amd not the ome some are commenting on in the article this thread is dedicated to! You can say all you want, and change players every year, but it is still the same predictable crap since Phil has been here.

Vmart
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3/19/2017  8:56 PM
crzymdups wrote:
Vmart wrote:If it is so predictable why aren't the Knicks having problems scoring. They seem to be doing that well. If anything is predictable about the Knicks it is that they will give less than max effort on the defensive side.

If the offense isn't the problem, why did Phil go back to the triangle in the first place? They were scoring more ppg before going back to the triangle.

Before the allstar break they were scoring 105ppg

Since the allstar break they're scoring 100.6ppg

So... Why'd they go back to the triangle if defense was the problem?

Phil was saying that if the triangle is used properly the team defense will also improve. Players will have a much better understanding of the offense as they know where the shots will come from and it helps players to react to get back in defense. The proper execution leads to a better defensive posture.

nixluva
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3/19/2017  9:04 PM
HofstraBBall wrote:
nixluva wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
nixluva wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
nixluva wrote:
crzymdups wrote:http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/18941092/nba-unhappy-anniversary-tidings-phil-jackson-three-years-new-york

I know people get prickly about the Triangle, but this is incredibly damning.

Knicks players also saying to Begley that they think it produces too tight spacing and too many contested shots.

We've been told Phil would bring in veterans who would be suited to the Triangle. In three off seasons so far all the players he's brought in have not done well in the triangle, outside of maybe Rolo, who plays the same position as KP and Willy anyway.

I'm not looking to take down Phil or have that conversation again. But I think it certainly is worth asking why are we still committed to the Triangle? Even Hornacek didn't want to run it full time. At a certain point doesn't Phil need to agree to update or scrap the triangle? I thought we were told Hornacek would be allowed to update the Triangle, but that's been overruled.

I just question why at this point.

In this draft alone there are several players who FIT the Triangle. Josh Jackson is a perfect SF for the Triangle. He passes the ball well. Jason Tatum is a more Team Oriented version of Melo IMO. He would be effective in the Pinch Post. Lonzo Ball is also a Triangle Fit. Malik Monk and Frank Ntilikina are also Triangle Fits. I would say that even De'Aaron Fox would fit. So really there's no reason to fear the notion of looking for players that would do well in the Triangle. All that really means is that they can function well without depending on heavy PnR. They have a high BBIQ, pass the ball and defend. Those are all winning traits.

This still does not make any sense? Draft guys for Truangke. Ot wont be here un 2 years?? Let's bring in Pete Carril for one year then Paul Westphal then Paul Westhead for a year. Draft guys foe those systems. That will be great for development.


Lonzo Ball or Josh Jackson don't make sense??? All we're talking about are 2 Way Multi-skilled players that can think the game too. Those players are going to be good in any system!

Now your mixing words. Yes, it makes no sense to draft guys to fit Triangle! And ofcourse those two are good picks, but niw because they fit the F..in Triangle? For your information, Kansas runs a spread. UCLA runs a speed ball offense. Nothing close to the slow ass Triangle. But you think they fit the Triangle??


It's about the SKILLS of the player not the system they're playing in on their college team!!! Players that have Low BB IQ, don't pass it well, are Ball Dominant and can't play without the ball effectively don't fit. MANY of the players at the top of this draft are capable of playing a Team Oriented style of play. For the most part the only thing that is sure is that a PG that can't think the game and can only run PnR is going to be the wrong guy for this system.

Just so we're clear here, the Triangle is an entire system and within that system you can play fast or slow. Full or Half court. It's not just one thing. I really wish people knew WTF they were talking about when discussing this but so many people think they know the offense when they don't know a damn thing about it. The Triangle is not the problem when it comes to finding quality basketball players. The Triangle never stopped good players from being good or great players from being GREAT!!!

You were making sense in the first paragraph. As picking good players has nothing to do with the Triangle. Opposite your point and what I was suggesting. It seems more like you don't know WTF you are talking about when it comes to the Triangle. Furthermore, I know you watch the games, but you may have not noticed or just don't get it, NO ONE in the last three years has learned or has come close to the Magical Unicorn version of the Triangle you speak of. For that matter, The one that we run is slow, easy to read and needs many more years of Phil himself teaching it on daily basis. NOT THE ONE YOU THINK IT IS. Amd not the ome some are commenting on in the article this thread is dedicated to! You can say all you want, and change players every year, but it is still the same predictable crap since Phil has been here.


You can't really count this season in terms of learning the Triangle since they didn't actually focus on the Triangle from the very start. Hornacek was catering to the abilities or limitations of Rose and BJ. Some of our players actually run the Triangle better than others. Unfortunately we have some KEY players that mess up the flow entirely.

I think my understanding of the Triangle is higher than most here because I actually took the time to learn it. A lot of people are just going by what they see and obviously it hasn't been good. That is not the fault of the Triangle Offense. This is a stupid Media driven talking point. The Triangle isn't slow or fast. That's dependent upon the Players running it and what the coach wants to emphasize.

Hornacek has a brilliant mind and I believe he will have no trouble learning and mastering the Triangle as well as being able to tweak the system to fit what he wants his players to do. There isn't just one way to run the system. The Triangle has been adapted by coaches over the years to fit different rosters. What doesn't change is that you need smart and multi skilled players to make it run at its best. That's no different than any offense. There are easier offenses but that doesn't mean your team will win just because they run Spread PnR. We need better TALENT PERIOD. Get that and then we'll see just what the Triangle is about or not.

CrushAlot
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3/19/2017  9:27 PM
nyknickzingis wrote:I'm still waiting for OP to answer about where he got that Phil was trading the 2018 picks in the Teague or other trade talks when Ian Begley (same source used for this thread) contradicted it
Where was that posted?
I've seen scant proof that a majestic aura trumps a sound plan, but maybe that's just because I wasn't looking at Phil Jackson... Seth Rosenthal 2014
Opposing players have told Knicks players Triangle is predictable and one of the easiest defensive assignments in the league.

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