Let's get ready to .....TANK!
Author Thread
franco12
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3/7/2017  11:27 AM
nixluva wrote:
Gudris wrote:Tanking is bull**it if cant get first pick

That's not true. This team is in need of starting caliber players to move forward with KP and you can't get them easily unless you have draft picks. There are no guarantees even with the 1st pick. You have to do a great job of scouting to make sure you get the right player. It's difficult but not impossible to draft well.

It's not the idea of tanking that is the problem. It's the other aspects of team building that mess up teams more than being in the lottery every year. There's so much more to it than drafting.

We have some great complimentary/role/team players. We're missing hi-impact star players.

AUTOADVERT
meloshouldgo
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3/7/2017  1:47 PM
franco12 wrote:
nixluva wrote:
Gudris wrote:Tanking is bull**it if cant get first pick

That's not true. This team is in need of starting caliber players to move forward with KP and you can't get them easily unless you have draft picks. There are no guarantees even with the 1st pick. You have to do a great job of scouting to make sure you get the right player. It's difficult but not impossible to draft well.

It's not the idea of tanking that is the problem. It's the other aspects of team building that mess up teams more than being in the lottery every year. There's so much more to it than drafting.

We have some great complimentary/role/team players. We're missing hi-impact star players.

No we dont. We dont selfish one dimensional no defense ball hogs that you and others call"high impact star players". Given the two we have the only impact has been in the payroll. Enough already with this stupid starfukking. We need better players yes, and we need to focus on drafting them. What we have focused on for the last 15 years is overpaying for players who have more flaws than they have skills.

The only things that trickle down are wages and horse shit
franco12
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3/7/2017  1:57 PM
meloshouldgo wrote:
franco12 wrote:
nixluva wrote:
Gudris wrote:Tanking is bull**it if cant get first pick

That's not true. This team is in need of starting caliber players to move forward with KP and you can't get them easily unless you have draft picks. There are no guarantees even with the 1st pick. You have to do a great job of scouting to make sure you get the right player. It's difficult but not impossible to draft well.

It's not the idea of tanking that is the problem. It's the other aspects of team building that mess up teams more than being in the lottery every year. There's so much more to it than drafting.

We have some great complimentary/role/team players. We're missing hi-impact star players.

No we dont. We dont selfish one dimensional no defense ball hogs that you and others call"high impact star players". Given the two we have the only impact has been in the payroll. Enough already with this stupid starfukking. We need better players yes, and we need to focus on drafting them. What we have focused on for the last 15 years is overpaying for players who have more flaws than they have skills.

not sure you followed.

I'm not saying Melo or Rose is part of our future. Noah either, but ok.

KP - potentially a high impact star player - by that, I mean - someone that ends up in the All Star game - someone that can get 20 points every night.

meloshouldgo
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3/7/2017  2:17 PM
See I think i did follow. What i call an impact player will at least double double on average and get a healthy number of triple doubles. I don't rate players as "stars" because they won some frivolous popularity vote. Melo averages 20 a game and has zero or negative impact but lots of all star appearances. We need better.
The only things that trickle down are wages and horse shit
arkrud
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3/7/2017  3:14 PM
meloshouldgo wrote:See I think i did follow. What i call an impact player will at least double double on average and get a healthy number of triple doubles. I don't rate players as "stars" because they won some frivolous popularity vote. Melo averages 20 a game and has zero or negative impact but lots of all star appearances. We need better.

One star player cannot make team competitive in NBA (LeBron excluded) and even LeBron cannot make team a contender without another superstars or even 2. And to make it to the top team need great leadership, coach, role players, system, and more on top of 2-3 superstars.
So to blame Melo for all ills of the dreadful Knicks organization is unfair and clear scapegoating.
He just cut in the moment of complete failure of sport organization to deliver any kind of results.
This is free country and Melo get into this by his free will so he deserved whatever coming his way.
As a team we just need to move on and start from ground up.
Faster we will get Rose and Melo out faster the process will start.

He can teach them to meditate... but no one can control even his own mind...
nixluva
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3/7/2017  3:33 PM
arkrud wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:See I think i did follow. What i call an impact player will at least double double on average and get a healthy number of triple doubles. I don't rate players as "stars" because they won some frivolous popularity vote. Melo averages 20 a game and has zero or negative impact but lots of all star appearances. We need better.

One star player cannot make team competitive in NBA (LeBron excluded) and even LeBron cannot make team a contender without another superstars or even 2. And to make it to the top team need great leadership, coach, role players, system, and more on top of 2-3 superstars.
So to blame Melo for all ills of the dreadful Knicks organization is unfair and clear scapegoating.
He just cut in the moment of complete failure of sport organization to deliver any kind of results.
This is free country and Melo get into this by his free will so he deserved whatever coming his way.
As a team we just need to move on and start from ground up.
Faster we will get Rose and Melo out faster the process will start.

WOAH!!! Wait a minute, great players DO IN FACT have an impact on wins and losses. It's one of the easiest things to verify. Now each player is different in how much they impact the way the team plays. Melo touches the ball a LOT and as such he needs to be a player that helps to make others around him better. It's a negative thing if you have high usage players that don't help the TEAM play better.

Now you can't make other players score the ball but you can make it EASIER. You can't defend for you teammates but you can be a plus defender yourself and actually help your weaker teammates. Last but not least is leadership. That is a more rare quality but many great players have that quality as well. Most of us believed that Melo was finally making progress to being a better leader and we saw a glimpse of that last year. He fell off this year and simply didn't continue to grow as a leader.

meloshouldgo
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3/7/2017  8:21 PM
nixluva wrote:
arkrud wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:See I think i did follow. What i call an impact player will at least double double on average and get a healthy number of triple doubles. I don't rate players as "stars" because they won some frivolous popularity vote. Melo averages 20 a game and has zero or negative impact but lots of all star appearances. We need better.

One star player cannot make team competitive in NBA (LeBron excluded) and even LeBron cannot make team a contender without another superstars or even 2. And to make it to the top team need great leadership, coach, role players, system, and more on top of 2-3 superstars.
So to blame Melo for all ills of the dreadful Knicks organization is unfair and clear scapegoating.
He just cut in the moment of complete failure of sport organization to deliver any kind of results.
This is free country and Melo get into this by his free will so he deserved whatever coming his way.
As a team we just need to move on and start from ground up.
Faster we will get Rose and Melo out faster the process will start.

WOAH!!! Wait a minute, great players DO IN FACT have an impact on wins and losses. It's one of the easiest things to verify. Now each player is different in how much they impact the way the team plays. Melo touches the ball a LOT and as such he needs to be a player that helps to make others around him better. It's a negative thing if you have high usage players that don't help the TEAM play better.

Now you can't make other players score the ball but you can make it EASIER. You can't defend for you teammates but you can be a plus defender yourself and actually help your weaker teammates. Last but not least is leadership. That is a more rare quality but many great players have that quality as well. Most of us believed that Melo was finally making progress to being a better leader and we saw a glimpse of that last year. He fell off this year and simply didn't continue to grow as a leader.

You write a post saying Melo's impact is net negative and you get a response saying you have blamed Melo for the organizational dysfunction of the Knicks. It's clear to me the dysfunction has permeated to some of the fans as well.

LeBron may or may not be a good leader but like Jordan he has that one thing that very few NBA players show today. He just refuses to lose. Jason Kidd had this - Brandon Jennings showed flashes of it. Some people just wont lose and if you add LeBron type skill set to that - then you get a once in a lifetime type player.

The only things that trickle down are wages and horse shit
meloshouldgo
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3/8/2017  9:51 AM    LAST EDITED: 3/8/2017  9:52 AM
3/8 - We are now eighth from the bottom. There are more teams in the West (5) than the East (3) with worse records than us!

I still expect NOP and Minny to finish better than us. That would get us to sixth.

The only things that trickle down are wages and horse shit
jrodmc
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3/8/2017  10:15 AM
meloshouldgo wrote:
nixluva wrote:
arkrud wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:See I think i did follow. What i call an impact player will at least double double on average and get a healthy number of triple doubles. I don't rate players as "stars" because they won some frivolous popularity vote. Melo averages 20 a game and has zero or negative impact but lots of all star appearances. We need better.

One star player cannot make team competitive in NBA (LeBron excluded) and even LeBron cannot make team a contender without another superstars or even 2. And to make it to the top team need great leadership, coach, role players, system, and more on top of 2-3 superstars.
So to blame Melo for all ills of the dreadful Knicks organization is unfair and clear scapegoating.
He just cut in the moment of complete failure of sport organization to deliver any kind of results.
This is free country and Melo get into this by his free will so he deserved whatever coming his way.
As a team we just need to move on and start from ground up.
Faster we will get Rose and Melo out faster the process will start.

WOAH!!! Wait a minute, great players DO IN FACT have an impact on wins and losses. It's one of the easiest things to verify. Now each player is different in how much they impact the way the team plays. Melo touches the ball a LOT and as such he needs to be a player that helps to make others around him better. It's a negative thing if you have high usage players that don't help the TEAM play better.

Now you can't make other players score the ball but you can make it EASIER. You can't defend for you teammates but you can be a plus defender yourself and actually help your weaker teammates. Last but not least is leadership. That is a more rare quality but many great players have that quality as well. Most of us believed that Melo was finally making progress to being a better leader and we saw a glimpse of that last year. He fell off this year and simply didn't continue to grow as a leader.

You write a post saying Melo's impact is net negative and you get a response saying you have blamed Melo for the organizational dysfunction of the Knicks. It's clear to me the dysfunction has permeated to some of the fans as well.

LeBron may or may not be a good leader but like Jordan he has that one thing that very few NBA players show today. He just refuses to lose. Jason Kidd had this - Brandon Jennings showed flashes of it. Some people just wont lose and if you add LeBron type skill set to that - then you get a once in a lifetime type player.

Yes, Lebron also has another quality you seem to overlook, possibly because you've got your melohate panties in such a bunch in this thread. He manages to take his talents to superteams only.

While foaming at the mouth, maybe you might want to ponder that this past game was the first one in almost two years that this franchise won without melo on the floor. But of course, to someone suffering from melo-nomas, you would find that to be a meaningless, non-impact factoid.

Carry on, it will only be another two years of dreaming of life without Melo.

You guys spend a lot of time commenting on the internet?
meloshouldgo
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3/8/2017  7:36 PM
jrodmc wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:
nixluva wrote:
arkrud wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:See I think i did follow. What i call an impact player will at least double double on average and get a healthy number of triple doubles. I don't rate players as "stars" because they won some frivolous popularity vote. Melo averages 20 a game and has zero or negative impact but lots of all star appearances. We need better.

One star player cannot make team competitive in NBA (LeBron excluded) and even LeBron cannot make team a contender without another superstars or even 2. And to make it to the top team need great leadership, coach, role players, system, and more on top of 2-3 superstars.
So to blame Melo for all ills of the dreadful Knicks organization is unfair and clear scapegoating.
He just cut in the moment of complete failure of sport organization to deliver any kind of results.
This is free country and Melo get into this by his free will so he deserved whatever coming his way.
As a team we just need to move on and start from ground up.
Faster we will get Rose and Melo out faster the process will start.

WOAH!!! Wait a minute, great players DO IN FACT have an impact on wins and losses. It's one of the easiest things to verify. Now each player is different in how much they impact the way the team plays. Melo touches the ball a LOT and as such he needs to be a player that helps to make others around him better. It's a negative thing if you have high usage players that don't help the TEAM play better.

Now you can't make other players score the ball but you can make it EASIER. You can't defend for you teammates but you can be a plus defender yourself and actually help your weaker teammates. Last but not least is leadership. That is a more rare quality but many great players have that quality as well. Most of us believed that Melo was finally making progress to being a better leader and we saw a glimpse of that last year. He fell off this year and simply didn't continue to grow as a leader.

You write a post saying Melo's impact is net negative and you get a response saying you have blamed Melo for the organizational dysfunction of the Knicks. It's clear to me the dysfunction has permeated to some of the fans as well.

LeBron may or may not be a good leader but like Jordan he has that one thing that very few NBA players show today. He just refuses to lose. Jason Kidd had this - Brandon Jennings showed flashes of it. Some people just wont lose and if you add LeBron type skill set to that - then you get a once in a lifetime type player.

Yes, Lebron also has another quality you seem to overlook, possibly because you've got your melohate panties in such a bunch in this thread. He manages to take his talents to superteams only.

While foaming at the mouth, maybe you might want to ponder that this past game was the first one in almost two years that this franchise won without melo on the floor. But of course, to someone suffering from melo-nomas, you would find that to be a meaningless, non-impact factoid.

Carry on, it will only be another two years of dreaming of life without Melo.

You forgot to SMILE Einstein

The only things that trickle down are wages and horse shit
meloshouldgo
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3/8/2017  10:43 PM    LAST EDITED: 3/8/2017  10:55 PM
Formula for the rest of the season keep playing Melo and Rose. Just sit Rose during Brooklyn games.

The Magic beat the Bulls
The TWolves beat the clippers
And we just made the Bucks beat us

Today was a good day!

The only things that trickle down are wages and horse shit
franco12
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3/9/2017  6:52 AM
we're in 8th, percentage points ahead of Timberwolves.

We'd be in 5th right now if we hadn't beaten the magic twice! Stupid! We suck so bad we can't even tank right!

SupremeCommander
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3/9/2017  10:38 AM
franco12 wrote:we're in 8th, percentage points ahead of Timberwolves.

We'd be in 5th right now if we hadn't beaten the magic twice! Stupid! We suck so bad we can't even tank right!

yup... at least we are figuring out the key to losing these games is to play Rose and Melo

Jimmy D w/o a straight shot said: In two hours, [Jackson] taught me basketball, and I learned I know nothing about basketball
Moonangie
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3/9/2017  11:32 AM
meloshouldgo wrote:Formula for the rest of the season keep playing Melo and Rose. Just sit Rose during Brooklyn games.

The Magic beat the Bulls
The TWolves beat the clippers
And we just made the Bucks beat us

Today was a good day!

We succeeded in snatching a loss from the jaws of victory. Well done NYK!

meloshouldgo
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3/9/2017  11:59 AM
Moonangie wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:Formula for the rest of the season keep playing Melo and Rose. Just sit Rose during Brooklyn games.

The Magic beat the Bulls
The TWolves beat the clippers
And we just made the Bucks beat us

Today was a good day!

We succeeded in snatching a loss from the jaws of victory. Well done NYK!

As sorry as that sounds, it will increase our odds of landing a better pick.

The only things that trickle down are wages and horse shit
meloshouldgo
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3/10/2017  6:33 AM
The suns lose to the Lakers. The value of shutting down their best players.
Unfortunately we don't seem to have an easy choice of who to sit down. If we accept Melo and Rose are helping us lose then we don't a clear cut best player to shut down. Maybe we just increase minutes for Plumlee and N'Dour the rest of the way along with Randle.
The only things that trickle down are wages and horse shit
nyknickzingis
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3/10/2017  7:35 AM    LAST EDITED: 3/10/2017  7:39 AM
We're what 8th in the tank standings right now?
Not bad. Seems like plenty of good players/talent will be available in this spot.

The Knicks really need to hit this outta the park like they did with the KP pick. Not expecting a superstar, but they can not draft a Sweetney or Balkman with this pick. It needs to be atleast a Gallo level player. We need a core starter bad. I think we can get one for sure at this spot if we don't mess things up. One thing the current front office has shown is that they know how to draft and develop. DLeague players are becoming solid rotation players in the league in our program. We got KP and Willy from the draft. Hope to see this trend continue in the 2017 draft. HUGE night for this team.

I'll never root for losses but I won't be upset if we lose, as I typically would. I do want us to play competitive basketball and try to win every game like you saw the young players like KP, Willy, Randle, Baker, try to do.

The bright side for us is we are one of the few teams who actually may suffer if we bench our vet stars. The team seems to play worse with the combination of Melo/Rose together. It's just such a complete screw up chemistry wise alongside Hornachek, that the combination of 2 players who hate and can not play system basketball alongside a coach trying to run system basketball may be the best recipe to stay inside the top 10 of the draft.

smackeddog
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3/10/2017  11:48 AM
nyknickzingis wrote:We're what 8th in the tank standings right now?
Not bad. Seems like plenty of good players/talent will be available in this spot.

The Knicks really need to hit this outta the park like they did with the KP pick. Not expecting a superstar, but they can not draft a Sweetney or Balkman with this pick. It needs to be atleast a Gallo level player. We need a core starter bad. I think we can get one for sure at this spot if we don't mess things up. One thing the current front office has shown is that they know how to draft and develop. DLeague players are becoming solid rotation players in the league in our program. We got KP and Willy from the draft. Hope to see this trend continue in the 2017 draft. HUGE night for this team.

I'll never root for losses but I won't be upset if we lose, as I typically would. I do want us to play competitive basketball and try to win every game like you saw the young players like KP, Willy, Randle, Baker, try to do.

The bright side for us is we are one of the few teams who actually may suffer if we bench our vet stars. The team seems to play worse with the combination of Melo/Rose together. It's just such a complete screw up chemistry wise alongside Hornachek, that the combination of 2 players who hate and can not play system basketball alongside a coach trying to run system basketball may be the best recipe to stay inside the top 10 of the draft.

Someone posted this in another thread:

http://www.82games.com/nbadraftpicks.htm

After the 5th pick, there is a huge drop in the chances of drafting a star

nixluva
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3/10/2017  11:59 AM
smackeddog wrote:
nyknickzingis wrote:We're what 8th in the tank standings right now?
Not bad. Seems like plenty of good players/talent will be available in this spot.

The Knicks really need to hit this outta the park like they did with the KP pick. Not expecting a superstar, but they can not draft a Sweetney or Balkman with this pick. It needs to be atleast a Gallo level player. We need a core starter bad. I think we can get one for sure at this spot if we don't mess things up. One thing the current front office has shown is that they know how to draft and develop. DLeague players are becoming solid rotation players in the league in our program. We got KP and Willy from the draft. Hope to see this trend continue in the 2017 draft. HUGE night for this team.

I'll never root for losses but I won't be upset if we lose, as I typically would. I do want us to play competitive basketball and try to win every game like you saw the young players like KP, Willy, Randle, Baker, try to do.

The bright side for us is we are one of the few teams who actually may suffer if we bench our vet stars. The team seems to play worse with the combination of Melo/Rose together. It's just such a complete screw up chemistry wise alongside Hornachek, that the combination of 2 players who hate and can not play system basketball alongside a coach trying to run system basketball may be the best recipe to stay inside the top 10 of the draft.

Someone posted this in another thread:

http://www.82games.com/nbadraftpicks.htm

After the 5th pick, there is a huge drop in the chances of drafting a star

Typically yes there's a huge drop. I think this draft is the rare deep draft where you might have several guys past the top 5 with star potential.

smackeddog
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3/10/2017  12:23 PM
nixluva wrote:
smackeddog wrote:
nyknickzingis wrote:We're what 8th in the tank standings right now?
Not bad. Seems like plenty of good players/talent will be available in this spot.

The Knicks really need to hit this outta the park like they did with the KP pick. Not expecting a superstar, but they can not draft a Sweetney or Balkman with this pick. It needs to be atleast a Gallo level player. We need a core starter bad. I think we can get one for sure at this spot if we don't mess things up. One thing the current front office has shown is that they know how to draft and develop. DLeague players are becoming solid rotation players in the league in our program. We got KP and Willy from the draft. Hope to see this trend continue in the 2017 draft. HUGE night for this team.

I'll never root for losses but I won't be upset if we lose, as I typically would. I do want us to play competitive basketball and try to win every game like you saw the young players like KP, Willy, Randle, Baker, try to do.

The bright side for us is we are one of the few teams who actually may suffer if we bench our vet stars. The team seems to play worse with the combination of Melo/Rose together. It's just such a complete screw up chemistry wise alongside Hornachek, that the combination of 2 players who hate and can not play system basketball alongside a coach trying to run system basketball may be the best recipe to stay inside the top 10 of the draft.

Someone posted this in another thread:

http://www.82games.com/nbadraftpicks.htm

After the 5th pick, there is a huge drop in the chances of drafting a star

Typically yes there's a huge drop. I think this draft is the rare deep draft where you might have several guys past the top 5 with star potential.

I'm being greedy in this draft, nixluva- I have my heart set on the 5th pick!

Let's get ready to .....TANK!

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