nyknickzingis wrote:meloshouldgo wrote:Nyknickzingis - I don't think we are asking anyone to lose on purpose, so this talk about losing culture is a bit hyperbole and a bit disingenuous. It's not like we have a winning culture to start with, not possible with Melo on the team. It is similar to saying talking means we'll be rooting for the sixers or some other generic response. The fact remains that without tanking and even with an "established superstar" we have barely been better than the Sixers over the last 8 years. At least they have the opportunity to change that everytime they draft. We just resign outtakes to another 30 win season. Again no one asked the players to throw games, I want our young core to play hard and compete. I just want Melo and Rose shut down or cut as the case maybe. The 30 win experiment is over and the best way to add talent is thorough the draft. There's no formula or guarantee but the earlier you pick the better the odds, that much is established.
There is no winning culture, but there is also not a losing/tank culture here.
What you're saying is basically purposely sit out Rose/Melo. What do you think that tells KP, Willy and other guys? It's a tank project. Players are not stupid. They know enough about the league to know when a tank job is going on.I know the benefits of drafting at 4, 5 or 6 vs 9, 10 or 11. However I don't see the positive in this case. Why? We already have some players to work with. This is not a complete overhaul happening like was the case heading into the 2015 offseason/draft. This year we will be making some changes, but not an overhaul. I think player development in the players we have already is important.
Media is knocking the Triangle, and Phil wanting to see players do their best rest of the way, but it gives you something for next season. You see who actually helps winning games. You see who can do what in a role next year.
Again I'd have a completely different opinion if the draft had a Lebron James in it, or someone like that, where being really bad could lead to a franchise alrering player. Even if we are really bad rest of the way (as in lose almost every game) we are not guaranteed a franchise altering player. For all we know, we may get the next Mudiay. Or Hezonja. They were picked in 2015 right after KP.
If the argument lets go get the 1, 2 or 3 pick, I can see that. I can somewhat roll with that, But if that were our goal, we needed to have traded Melo and cut Rose, and found a way to sit KP by trade deadline. It's too late to go for that "goal".
I also want to remind fans that the Knicks may not get better than Rose in free agency. If Rose is willing to stay at current salary he may be the best free agent we could sign. We may be best served drafting a 2 or 3, keeping Rose, Holiday and using the MLE to sign another rotation player. Then try to convince Melo to move on. This is still something the Knicks have to ponder, because they are not going to be in play for CP3, Curry or any of the top free agents. Cutting Rose means you lost him for nothing. If he is willing to take a 4 year deal, you could always move him in the future. The more and more he is playing healthy and explosive the more and more teams are seeing him as healthy and good again. I don't think it's smart to just cut a talent like Rose, before atleats trying to negotiate a contract with him in free agency that may be 1) something you could live with 2) something you could trade in the future.
Seems like much ado about nothing. You have drawn a line on the sand. You think the risk of imposing a losing culture on KP etc (your words) is worth it for a Lebron type player only. We think that given what we have seen for the last 6-10 years we should be more open to this with lesser talent as well. Again there is no evidence that tanking culture as you call it does irreparable harm to players. And we are splitting hairs in what type of players we would do it for.
Personally, I think that a top 5 pick in this draft is well worth the risk of whatever minor frustration it might cause KP.
I cannot teach anybody anything. I can only try to make them think - Socrates
3/7/2017 11:09 AM