Let's get ready to .....TANK!
Author Thread
BRIGGS
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3/6/2017  10:55 AM
nyknickzingis wrote:Anyway according to Briggs, Knicks don't have any good players.
KP is also not a good player.
Ok, I give up.
There is not a single good player on the Knicks.

Not a single player who is seen around the league as one of the top 5 young players in the league, an emerging star, despite dealing with multiple health issues already has wound up giving the team 18/7/2 a night. Already more advanced at Dirk at the same age in both production and stats.

Yeah we don't have anything good to work with.

Typical ... grass is always greener.

Tank does not mean lose on purpose. Tank means play the Ronny Bakers 35 minutes the Maurice Ndour 30 minutes some dleagueres--to see what they can do with extended time WHILE we SAVE guys like KP(keep him down to 20 minutes) and not even play CA(shoulder knee)

If KP gets hurt in the last 18 what value is it?

AUTOADVERT
nixluva
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3/6/2017  10:55 AM
I don't expect to end up with a KD but there are some very good players in this draft. The Knicks players aren't Tanking but the end result is the same. Resting Melo and getting more of a look at younger players has VALUE for the team. Those players will not be trying to lose!!!

This is the 1st time we actually have a shot to build thru the draft. You say there are no great players but we haven't even seen the NCAA Tournament yet!!! So I'm on board the TANK. Hoping we can crack the top 5.

BRIGGS
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3/6/2017  11:00 AM
nixluva wrote:I don't expect to end up with a KD but there are some very good players in this draft. The Knicks players aren't Tanking but the end result is the same. Resting Melo and getting more of a look at younger players has VALUE for the team. Those players will not be trying to lose!!!

This is the 1st time we actually have a shot to build thru the draft. You say there are no great players but we haven't even seen the NCAA Tournament yet!!! So I'm on board the TANK. Hoping we can crack the top 5.

No one plays to lose. Tank is a different expression. It means youre not putting your best foot forward to win. It means keeping your vets injury free. It means taking a strong look at younger players with extended time. If they win they win --no one in the nBA tries to lose. But you can put a challenged team out there and it might not win.

If we had Lonzo Ball on the team the next 16 years---no one will be bthcing--not even jrrod.

Moonangie
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3/6/2017  11:41 AM
SupremeCommander wrote:we will get a damned good point prospect if we can get a pick in the top 8... so we need to finish with the fifth worst record to ensure that that happens. Obviously I would love to have a top 2 but beggars can't be choosers... just PLEASE just ank so we get us a blue chipper at PG

Exactly. The next 19 games do count for something - they count toward our ability to get a PG prospect who will make a difference for us over the next ten years. Let's not **** this up the way we did on the Steph Curry draft. Geez...NOT TANK? smh

meloshouldgo
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3/6/2017  11:42 AM
nyknickzingis wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:Nyknickzingis - I don't think we are asking anyone to lose on purpose, so this talk about losing culture is a bit hyperbole and a bit disingenuous. It's not like we have a winning culture to start with, not possible with Melo on the team. It is similar to saying talking means we'll be rooting for the sixers or some other generic response. The fact remains that without tanking and even with an "established superstar" we have barely been better than the Sixers over the last 8 years. At least they have the opportunity to change that everytime they draft. We just resign outtakes to another 30 win season.

Again no one asked the players to throw games, I want our young core to play hard and compete. I just want Melo and Rose shut down or cut as the case maybe. The 30 win experiment is over and the best way to add talent is thorough the draft. There's no formula or guarantee but the earlier you pick the better the odds, that much is established.


There is no winning culture, but there is also not a losing/tank culture here.
What you're saying is basically purposely sit out Rose/Melo. What do you think that tells KP, Willy and other guys? It's a tank project. Players are not stupid. They know enough about the league to know when a tank job is going on.

I know the benefits of drafting at 4, 5 or 6 vs 9, 10 or 11. However I don't see the positive in this case. Why? We already have some players to work with. This is not a complete overhaul happening like was the case heading into the 2015 offseason/draft. This year we will be making some changes, but not an overhaul. I think player development in the players we have already is important.

Media is knocking the Triangle, and Phil wanting to see players do their best rest of the way, but it gives you something for next season. You see who actually helps winning games. You see who can do what in a role next year.

Again I'd have a completely different opinion if the draft had a Lebron James in it, or someone like that, where being really bad could lead to a franchise alrering player. Even if we are really bad rest of the way (as in lose almost every game) we are not guaranteed a franchise altering player. For all we know, we may get the next Mudiay. Or Hezonja. They were picked in 2015 right after KP.

If the argument lets go get the 1, 2 or 3 pick, I can see that. I can somewhat roll with that, But if that were our goal, we needed to have traded Melo and cut Rose, and found a way to sit KP by trade deadline. It's too late to go for that "goal".

I also want to remind fans that the Knicks may not get better than Rose in free agency. If Rose is willing to stay at current salary he may be the best free agent we could sign. We may be best served drafting a 2 or 3, keeping Rose, Holiday and using the MLE to sign another rotation player. Then try to convince Melo to move on. This is still something the Knicks have to ponder, because they are not going to be in play for CP3, Curry or any of the top free agents. Cutting Rose means you lost him for nothing. If he is willing to take a 4 year deal, you could always move him in the future. The more and more he is playing healthy and explosive the more and more teams are seeing him as healthy and good again. I don't think it's smart to just cut a talent like Rose, before atleats trying to negotiate a contract with him in free agency that may be 1) something you could live with 2) something you could trade in the future.

Seems like much ado about nothing. You have drawn a line on the sand. You think the risk of imposing a losing culture on KP etc (your words) is worth it for a Lebron type player only. We think that given what we have seen for the last 6-10 years we should be more open to this with lesser talent as well. Again there is no evidence that tanking culture as you call it does irreparable harm to players. And we are splitting hairs in what type of players we would do it for.

Personally, I think that a top 5 pick in this draft is well worth the risk of whatever minor frustration it might cause KP.

The only things that trickle down are wages and horse shit
Moonangie
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3/6/2017  11:48 AM
meloshouldgo wrote:Nyknickzingis - I don't think we are asking anyone to lose on purpose, so this talk about losing culture is a bit hyperbole and a bit disingenuous. It's not like we have a winning culture to start with, not possible with Melo on the team. It is similar to saying talking means we'll be rooting for the sixers or some other generic response. The fact remains that without tanking and even with an "established superstar" we have barely been better than the Sixers over the last 8 years. At least they have the opportunity to change that everytime they draft. We just resign outtakes to another 30 win season.

Again no one asked the players to throw games, I want our young core to play hard and compete. I just want Melo and Rose shut down or cut as the case maybe. The 30 win experiment is over and the best way to add talent is thorough the draft. There's no formula or guarantee but the earlier you pick the better the odds, that much is established.

This ^^^.

In a nutshell, makes the case for tanking with grace (i.e., get our stud scorers out of the picture for the remaining games after tonight).

arkrud
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3/6/2017  1:26 PM    LAST EDITED: 3/6/2017  1:26 PM
Moonangie wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:Nyknickzingis - I don't think we are asking anyone to lose on purpose, so this talk about losing culture is a bit hyperbole and a bit disingenuous. It's not like we have a winning culture to start with, not possible with Melo on the team. It is similar to saying talking means we'll be rooting for the sixers or some other generic response. The fact remains that without tanking and even with an "established superstar" we have barely been better than the Sixers over the last 8 years. At least they have the opportunity to change that everytime they draft. We just resign outtakes to another 30 win season.

Again no one asked the players to throw games, I want our young core to play hard and compete. I just want Melo and Rose shut down or cut as the case maybe. The 30 win experiment is over and the best way to add talent is thorough the draft. There's no formula or guarantee but the earlier you pick the better the odds, that much is established.

This ^^^.

In a nutshell, makes the case for tanking with grace (i.e., get our stud scorers out of the picture for the remaining games after tonight).

I disagree... If we want a chance to lose in every game we need Melo and Rose playing big minutes.
They deliver loses for us before and there is no reason to believe they will not continue.

He can teach them to meditate... but no one can control even his own mind...
SupremeCommander
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3/6/2017  2:47 PM
arkrud wrote:
Moonangie wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:Nyknickzingis - I don't think we are asking anyone to lose on purpose, so this talk about losing culture is a bit hyperbole and a bit disingenuous. It's not like we have a winning culture to start with, not possible with Melo on the team. It is similar to saying talking means we'll be rooting for the sixers or some other generic response. The fact remains that without tanking and even with an "established superstar" we have barely been better than the Sixers over the last 8 years. At least they have the opportunity to change that everytime they draft. We just resign outtakes to another 30 win season.

Again no one asked the players to throw games, I want our young core to play hard and compete. I just want Melo and Rose shut down or cut as the case maybe. The 30 win experiment is over and the best way to add talent is thorough the draft. There's no formula or guarantee but the earlier you pick the better the odds, that much is established.

This ^^^.

In a nutshell, makes the case for tanking with grace (i.e., get our stud scorers out of the picture for the remaining games after tonight).

I disagree... If we want a chance to lose in every game we need Melo and Rose playing big minutes.
They deliver loses for us before and there is no reason to believe they will not continue.

Originally I wanted to crack some sarcastic joke but I just saw this stat... Melo's FG% post All Star game is .393 and his 3P% is .275. Yeah, playing Melo will get us ping pong balls for sure

Jimmy D w/o a straight shot said: In two hours, [Jackson] taught me basketball, and I learned I know nothing about basketball
fishmike
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3/6/2017  3:23 PM
SupremeCommander wrote:
arkrud wrote:
Moonangie wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:Nyknickzingis - I don't think we are asking anyone to lose on purpose, so this talk about losing culture is a bit hyperbole and a bit disingenuous. It's not like we have a winning culture to start with, not possible with Melo on the team. It is similar to saying talking means we'll be rooting for the sixers or some other generic response. The fact remains that without tanking and even with an "established superstar" we have barely been better than the Sixers over the last 8 years. At least they have the opportunity to change that everytime they draft. We just resign outtakes to another 30 win season.

Again no one asked the players to throw games, I want our young core to play hard and compete. I just want Melo and Rose shut down or cut as the case maybe. The 30 win experiment is over and the best way to add talent is thorough the draft. There's no formula or guarantee but the earlier you pick the better the odds, that much is established.

This ^^^.

In a nutshell, makes the case for tanking with grace (i.e., get our stud scorers out of the picture for the remaining games after tonight).

I disagree... If we want a chance to lose in every game we need Melo and Rose playing big minutes.
They deliver loses for us before and there is no reason to believe they will not continue.

Originally I wanted to crack some sarcastic joke but I just saw this stat... Melo's FG% post All Star game is .393 and his 3P% is .275. Yeah, playing Melo will get us ping pong balls for sure

He's been terrible. The body language is bad also. There really cant be any other offseason priority than to move him and start building the team they want.
fishmike - Making UltimateKnicks great again
arkrud
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3/6/2017  3:24 PM
SupremeCommander wrote:
arkrud wrote:
Moonangie wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:Nyknickzingis - I don't think we are asking anyone to lose on purpose, so this talk about losing culture is a bit hyperbole and a bit disingenuous. It's not like we have a winning culture to start with, not possible with Melo on the team. It is similar to saying talking means we'll be rooting for the sixers or some other generic response. The fact remains that without tanking and even with an "established superstar" we have barely been better than the Sixers over the last 8 years. At least they have the opportunity to change that everytime they draft. We just resign outtakes to another 30 win season.

Again no one asked the players to throw games, I want our young core to play hard and compete. I just want Melo and Rose shut down or cut as the case maybe. The 30 win experiment is over and the best way to add talent is thorough the draft. There's no formula or guarantee but the earlier you pick the better the odds, that much is established.

This ^^^.

In a nutshell, makes the case for tanking with grace (i.e., get our stud scorers out of the picture for the remaining games after tonight).

I disagree... If we want a chance to lose in every game we need Melo and Rose playing big minutes.
They deliver loses for us before and there is no reason to believe they will not continue.

Originally I wanted to crack some sarcastic joke but I just saw this stat... Melo's FG% post All Star game is .393 and his 3P% is .275. Yeah, playing Melo will get us ping pong balls for sure

At least he understood that he need to give back and help us to get another high lottery pick.
Veterans savvy right there...

He can teach them to meditate... but no one can control even his own mind...
reub
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3/6/2017  5:38 PM
No one will trade us anything for Melo. He's a burden for us that we're stuck with. Hopefully next season, we'll just use him as an off the bench scorer for limited minutes.
meloshouldgo
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3/6/2017  6:50 PM
fishmike wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:
arkrud wrote:
Moonangie wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:Nyknickzingis - I don't think we are asking anyone to lose on purpose, so this talk about losing culture is a bit hyperbole and a bit disingenuous. It's not like we have a winning culture to start with, not possible with Melo on the team. It is similar to saying talking means we'll be rooting for the sixers or some other generic response. The fact remains that without tanking and even with an "established superstar" we have barely been better than the Sixers over the last 8 years. At least they have the opportunity to change that everytime they draft. We just resign outtakes to another 30 win season.

Again no one asked the players to throw games, I want our young core to play hard and compete. I just want Melo and Rose shut down or cut as the case maybe. The 30 win experiment is over and the best way to add talent is thorough the draft. There's no formula or guarantee but the earlier you pick the better the odds, that much is established.

This ^^^.

In a nutshell, makes the case for tanking with grace (i.e., get our stud scorers out of the picture for the remaining games after tonight).

I disagree... If we want a chance to lose in every game we need Melo and Rose playing big minutes.
They deliver loses for us before and there is no reason to believe they will not continue.

Originally I wanted to crack some sarcastic joke but I just saw this stat... Melo's FG% post All Star game is .393 and his 3P% is .275. Yeah, playing Melo will get us ping pong balls for sure

He's been terrible. The body language is bad also. There really cant be any other offseason priority than to move him and start building the team they want.

There's a chance the Cavs collapse in the offseason or suffer a humiliating loss. The Clippers will still want him as well. I don't want K Love unless it's as an asset for a cutie trade. I maybe more amenable to receiving Griffin but those are only possible if Phil plays this really smart. Otherwise there's always Austin Rivers

The only things that trickle down are wages and horse shit
90sKnicks
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3/6/2017  10:59 PM
The Knicks went 3-1 over the 4-game stretch against the 76ers and Magic. There are two games against the Nets coming up soon. Anyone who fantasized about the Knicks getting a Top 6 pick weren't in touch with reality.

We will not finish below the Nets, Lakers, Suns, 76ers, Magic, or Kings under any circumstances. We just have to hope to finish 7th. Hope for the Pelicans, Minnesota, Portland, Bucks, and Hornets to go on a run. I feel the Knicks will end the season around 38-44 or 37-45.

crzymdups
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3/6/2017  11:12 PM
90sKnicks wrote:The Knicks went 3-1 over the 4-game stretch against the 76ers and Magic. There are two games against the Nets coming up soon. Anyone who fantasized about the Knicks getting a Top 6 pick weren't in touch with reality.

We will not finish below the Nets, Lakers, Suns, 76ers, Magic, or Kings under any circumstances. We just have to hope to finish 7th. Hope for the Pelicans, Minnesota, Portland, Bucks, and Hornets to go on a run. I feel the Knicks will end the season around 38-44 or 37-45.

After those two Nets games, they finish the season playing almost all teams who will be trying to make the playoffs, except the last game of the season against Philly, where you'd hope they rest Rose and Melo. I think they'll win around 30 or 32. They have 26 right now. This is the remaining schedule.

Wed, Mar 8
@Milwaukee

Sat, Mar 11
@Detroit

Sun, Mar 12
@Brooklyn

Tue, Mar 14
vs Indiana

Thu, Mar 16
vs Brooklyn

Mon, Mar 20
@ LA

Wed, Mar 22
@ Utah

Thu, Mar 23
@ Portland

Sat, Mar 25
@ San Antonio

Mon, Mar 27
vs Detroit

Wed, Mar 29
vs Miami

Fri, Mar 31
@ Miami

Sun, Apr 2
vs Boston

Tue, Apr 4
vs Chicago

Thu, Apr 6
vs Washington

Fri, Apr 7
@ Memphis

Sun, Apr 9
vs Toronto

Wed, Apr 12
vs Philadelphia

¿ △ ?
magicTs
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3/7/2017  12:31 AM
90sKnicks wrote:The Knicks went 3-1 over the 4-game stretch against the 76ers and Magic. There are two games against the Nets coming up soon. Anyone who fantasized about the Knicks getting a Top 6 pick weren't in touch with reality.

We will not finish below the Nets, Lakers, Suns, 76ers, Magic, or Kings under any circumstances. We just have to hope to finish 7th. Hope for the Pelicans, Minnesota, Portland, Bucks, and Hornets to go on a run. I feel the Knicks will end the season around 38-44 or 37-45.

You think a team that is 26-38 is going to finish 12-6. Thankfully there is no chance of that.

smackeddog
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3/7/2017  2:56 AM
magicTs wrote:
90sKnicks wrote:The Knicks went 3-1 over the 4-game stretch against the 76ers and Magic. There are two games against the Nets coming up soon. Anyone who fantasized about the Knicks getting a Top 6 pick weren't in touch with reality.

We will not finish below the Nets, Lakers, Suns, 76ers, Magic, or Kings under any circumstances. We just have to hope to finish 7th. Hope for the Pelicans, Minnesota, Portland, Bucks, and Hornets to go on a run. I feel the Knicks will end the season around 38-44 or 37-45.

You think a team that is 26-38 is going to finish 12-6. Thankfully there is no chance of that.

That's the nightmare senario. I agree 90sKnicks though about not finishing below Nets, lakers, Suns, Sixers, magic or Kings (don't see them winning many games at all). Pelicans aren't looking good, but we can but hope they win some games. Twolves won't tank with Thibs at the helm, so again we need to hope they win some more games. Blazers, Bucks and Hornets are all better than us so hopefully their records reflect that.

ramtour420
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3/7/2017  4:01 AM
Man we really missed our tank commander versus the Magic. Without Melo our tank is too weak. Rose tried his bestest to no avail, Rose is our tank general, but he cannot do it by himself. WE NEED OUR TANK COMMANDER BACK ASAP!
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one. I hope someday you'll join us and the world will be as one." -J.Lennon
franco12
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3/7/2017  10:59 AM
crzymdups wrote:
90sKnicks wrote:The Knicks went 3-1 over the 4-game stretch against the 76ers and Magic. There are two games against the Nets coming up soon. Anyone who fantasized about the Knicks getting a Top 6 pick weren't in touch with reality.

We will not finish below the Nets, Lakers, Suns, 76ers, Magic, or Kings under any circumstances. We just have to hope to finish 7th. Hope for the Pelicans, Minnesota, Portland, Bucks, and Hornets to go on a run. I feel the Knicks will end the season around 38-44 or 37-45.

After those two Nets games, they finish the season playing almost all teams who will be trying to make the playoffs, except the last game of the season against Philly, where you'd hope they rest Rose and Melo. I think they'll win around 30 or 32. They have 26 right now. This is the remaining schedule.

Wed, Mar 8
@Milwaukee

Sat, Mar 11
@Detroit

Sun, Mar 12
@Brooklyn

Tue, Mar 14
vs Indiana

Thu, Mar 16
vs Brooklyn

Mon, Mar 20
@ LA

Wed, Mar 22
@ Utah

Thu, Mar 23
@ Portland

Sat, Mar 25
@ San Antonio

Mon, Mar 27
vs Detroit

Wed, Mar 29
vs Miami

Fri, Mar 31
@ Miami

Sun, Apr 2
vs Boston

Tue, Apr 4
vs Chicago

Thu, Apr 6
vs Washington

Fri, Apr 7
@ Memphis

Sun, Apr 9
vs Toronto

Wed, Apr 12
vs Philadelphia

I see three wins - good for 29.

Maybe Toronto is resting everyone and we have no choice.

Gudris
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3/7/2017  11:09 AM
Tanking is bull**it if cant get first pick
nixluva
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3/7/2017  11:23 AM
Gudris wrote:Tanking is bull**it if cant get first pick

That's not true. This team is in need of starting caliber players to move forward with KP and you can't get them easily unless you have draft picks. There are no guarantees even with the 1st pick. You have to do a great job of scouting to make sure you get the right player. It's difficult but not impossible to draft well.

It's not the idea of tanking that is the problem. It's the other aspects of team building that mess up teams more than being in the lottery every year. There's so much more to it than drafting.

Let's get ready to .....TANK!

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