Let's get ready to .....TANK!
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meloshouldgo
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3/5/2017  11:42 PM
Rumbling is overrated.

The suns just beat the Celts, they are just a game back of us.
If we can lose to the magic we could get in the thick of things.

Right now we are 7th worst in the league - One of the 6 below us the NOP is being forced to beat the Lakers. Once they win we will tie with the NOP (I think they'll surpass us). And if Phoenix and the Magic can pull in a few wins each. That would make us look a lot better

The only things that trickle down are wages and horse shit
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arkrud
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3/5/2017  11:48 PM
meloshouldgo wrote:Rumbling is overrated.

The suns just beat the Celts, they are just a game back of us.
If we can lose to the magic we could get in the thick of things.

Right now we are 7th worst in the league - One of the 6 below us the NOP is being forced to beat the Lakers. Once they win we will tie with the NOP (I think they'll surpass us). And if Phoenix and the Magic can pull in a few wins each. That would make us look a lot better

Unfortunately in tanking business we are not the masters of our destiny...
However if we will play Melo and Rose 40+ min each we can do a lot of damage...
Who knows... we even can be the best... unintentional tankers.

He can teach them to meditate... but no one can control even his own mind...
BRIGGS
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3/6/2017  12:34 AM
It's statistically over being 6 games out with 4 teams ahead of us with 19 to go. The odds are now 1-200.

Time to start Plumlee at c ndour at pf baker and randle at guards and see if we have something release Sasha and bring in another d leaguer. Be pro active to the circumstances.

Carmelo should be placed on it with his shoulder and let Rose go

meloshouldgo
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3/6/2017  6:36 AM
BRIGGS wrote:It's statistically over being 6 games out with 4 teams ahead of us with 19 to go. The odds are now 1-200.

Time to start Plumlee at c ndour at pf baker and randle at guards and see if we have something release Sasha and bring in another d leaguer. Be pro active to the circumstances.

Carmelo should be placed on it with his shoulder and let Rose go

It's not over till the fat lady sings. The lottery will give us a chance and we just need to get into the top four. I don't disagree with your approach but I am not sure our coach has the guts to pull that off. Now Melo isn't wining us anything even when he plays well, which isn't often. To be safe though we should shut him down on games against really weak teams like the magic. He is bad enough to win those for us.

Rose is more of a wildcard. When or B team is clicking and he plays within the offense he can definitely push us into the win column. I have no idea why we don't just cut him.

I think Willy/KP/Baker/Kuz should be allowed to be on the floor together and Jeff should maximize that. Those 4 need to develop their chemistry on both ends of the floor. While I want all of them back next year, I am not sure Kuz will be here.

Randle/Plumlee/N'Dour should see fixed amount of minutes going forward.

The only things that trickle down are wages and horse shit
franco12
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3/6/2017  6:50 AM
meloshouldgo wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:It's statistically over being 6 games out with 4 teams ahead of us with 19 to go. The odds are now 1-200.

Time to start Plumlee at c ndour at pf baker and randle at guards and see if we have something release Sasha and bring in another d leaguer. Be pro active to the circumstances.

Carmelo should be placed on it with his shoulder and let Rose go

It's not over till the fat lady sings. The lottery will give us a chance and we just need to get into the top four. I don't disagree with your approach but I am not sure our coach has the guts to pull that off. Now Melo isn't wining us anything even when he plays well, which isn't often. To be safe though we should shut him down on games against really weak teams like the magic. He is bad enough to win those for us.

Rose is more of a wildcard. When or B team is clicking and he plays within the offense he can definitely push us into the win column. I have no idea why we don't just cut him.

I think Willy/KP/Baker/Kuz should be allowed to be on the floor together and Jeff should maximize that. Those 4 need to develop their chemistry on both ends of the floor. While I want all of them back next year, I am not sure Kuz will be here.

Randle/Plumlee/N'Dour should see fixed amount of minutes going forward.

They didn't cut him because maybe they are thinking of keeping him. What else explains it?


Will he have any value in the off season in a S&T? Not likely.

Can Phil basically admit his key off season move (Rose/Noah) was a complete bust? I think to save face Phil may shoot this organization in the foot.

If they can't beat a depleted, struggling Golden State team at home, then what hope is there for this squad? Long term?

We basically had one bright spot yesterday - KP.

sidneydeane
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3/6/2017  7:07 AM
depleted? 3 all stars. real depleted
nyknickzingis
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3/6/2017  7:50 AM
We should not tank.
We're losing games by our consistently poor execution in the 4th quarters or simply being outmatched. I see no reason why Melo will change who he is, or we will improve our 4th quarter woes. We will lose plenty of our games. We will not be better than a .300 team rest of the way, which means what 6 more wins?

I don't mind beating an Orlamdo tonight, and then losing to a better team on the road.
I think we should and will hit 30-32 wins.

I can live with a 10th pick vs a 6th pick.

If you scout well, if you know the talent you are taking will fit in, we can grab a good player.

I don't know what others were watching, but I was watching a great combination yesterday. I was watching KP having his first quality game against the highest level of competition in the league and in a game style that you see played in the NBA Finals. The Warriors style and level is one KP in the past struggled with. You see his development. We are also seeing maybe where his future is, as a starting C, who can then slide over to PF with Willy coming in off the bench. The other thing was Rose. An attacking guard really helps this team. That's the combination we need longrerm. An attacking, driving point guard, some quality shooters outside, players that move off the ball. More Lace Thomas, Ron Baker, Justin Holiday types.

I'm sure once the season is almost over, when there's like 5 or 6 games left, the Knicks may at that point look at resting many players and losing all those games. However up until that point, I want these players to go all out. I am very happy with the effort of these players. It shows me they care about being Knicks and are interested in coming back. People don't realize that there are so many players who will be on contract for next year and unless there are many trades this offseason (unlikely) many of these players are coming back.

On contract for next year

Porzingis/O'Quinn/Noah
Melo/Willy
Thomas/Kuzminskas
Lee
Baker

Also have the bird rights (early/partial) for Holiday, and full bird rights on Rose.

Don't think it's a good idea to tank, and lose almost every game on purpose, only to see the majority of the talent on this team question whether they should even be Knicks next year. You want these players going into the offseason with some goals in mind, some areas they can work on and how they can come back next year better.

ESOMKnicks
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3/6/2017  7:50 AM
Whichever pick gets us Monk is fine by me. Then we try to reel in a Teague, make Randle our PG backup, and can outrun, outscore or outmuscle any team in the league.
nyknickzingis
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3/6/2017  7:55 AM
The team was 14-10.
Now they're 25-38.
They have gone 11-28. That's a little less than .300 level play over the last 40 games.

They have 19 games left. So they won 5 or 6 of them. It's not the worst thing if that happens. Teams have drafted great talent around 10th or lower. Where did Philly pick up Dario Saric? He was a nice get for them. Where did Boston get Paul Pierce? He was a 10th pick.

Let things fall into place. The team has done so much self inflicted wounding already, that I see no reason it won't contiue to shoot itself in the foot and blow games. What I do like is what Lance Thomas is bringing to the team. Ron Baker. We're seeing their effort and defense be infectious. KP is playing much better defense as well. I want to see this group try, because most of them are coming back next year.

If they go to work thinking about what their summer plans are, man that will be ugly and it will be bad for next year. You want players that give a damn, that want to win and that compete hard. I don't want guys who don't give a crap and already checked out. Many tanking teams have that kind of mindset and those kinds of players. Screw that.

BRIGGS
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3/6/2017  8:25 AM
nyknickzingis wrote:The team was 14-10.
Now they're 25-38.
They have gone 11-28. That's a little less than .300 level play over the last 40 games.

They have 19 games left. So they won 5 or 6 of them. It's not the worst thing if that happens. Teams have drafted great talent around 10th or lower. Where did Philly pick up Dario Saric? He was a nice get for them. Where did Boston get Paul Pierce? He was a 10th pick.

Let things fall into place. The team has done so much self inflicted wounding already, that I see no reason it won't contiue to shoot itself in the foot and blow games. What I do like is what Lance Thomas is bringing to the team. Ron Baker. We're seeing their effort and defense be infectious. KP is playing much better defense as well. I want to see this group try, because most of them are coming back next year.

If they go to work thinking about what their summer plans are, man that will be ugly and it will be bad for next year. You want players that give a damn, that want to win and that compete hard. I don't want guys who don't give a crap and already checked out. Many tanking teams have that kind of mindset and those kinds of players. Screw that.

Absolutely foolish train of thought. Think like this-- the last two seasons we had aberrations to start the seasons but rea lly we are a .300 team a .300 team NEEDS top tier talent to add. We need as much amno to run for a top 3 pick as any club in the nba please stop telling me how much talent we have--- we stink and we need better players. At the same time it gives the Knicks 15 games to look at younger players and maybe a couple of d leaguers. What do we get out of playing Rose and melo? Nothing

meloshouldgo
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3/6/2017  9:40 AM
franco12 wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:It's statistically over being 6 games out with 4 teams ahead of us with 19 to go. The odds are now 1-200.

Time to start Plumlee at c ndour at pf baker and randle at guards and see if we have something release Sasha and bring in another d leaguer. Be pro active to the circumstances.

Carmelo should be placed on it with his shoulder and let Rose go

It's not over till the fat lady sings. The lottery will give us a chance and we just need to get into the top four. I don't disagree with your approach but I am not sure our coach has the guts to pull that off. Now Melo isn't wining us anything even when he plays well, which isn't often. To be safe though we should shut him down on games against really weak teams like the magic. He is bad enough to win those for us.

Rose is more of a wildcard. When or B team is clicking and he plays within the offense he can definitely push us into the win column. I have no idea why we don't just cut him.

I think Willy/KP/Baker/Kuz should be allowed to be on the floor together and Jeff should maximize that. Those 4 need to develop their chemistry on both ends of the floor. While I want all of them back next year, I am not sure Kuz will be here.

Randle/Plumlee/N'Dour should see fixed amount of minutes going forward.

They didn't cut him because maybe they are thinking of keeping him. What else explains it?


Will he have any value in the off season in a S&T? Not likely.

Can Phil basically admit his key off season move (Rose/Noah) was a complete bust? I think to save face Phil may shoot this organization in the foot.

If they can't beat a depleted, struggling Golden State team at home, then what hope is there for this squad? Long term?

We basically had one bright spot yesterday - KP.

This is outright trolling. The team we played was the one that went to two consecutive NBA finals and won one of them. To call that depleted is just STOOPID.

The only things that trickle down are wages and horse shit
jrodmc
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3/6/2017  9:52 AM
meloshouldgo wrote:
franco12 wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:It's statistically over being 6 games out with 4 teams ahead of us with 19 to go. The odds are now 1-200.

Time to start Plumlee at c ndour at pf baker and randle at guards and see if we have something release Sasha and bring in another d leaguer. Be pro active to the circumstances.

Carmelo should be placed on it with his shoulder and let Rose go

It's not over till the fat lady sings. The lottery will give us a chance and we just need to get into the top four. I don't disagree with your approach but I am not sure our coach has the guts to pull that off. Now Melo isn't wining us anything even when he plays well, which isn't often. To be safe though we should shut him down on games against really weak teams like the magic. He is bad enough to win those for us.

Rose is more of a wildcard. When or B team is clicking and he plays within the offense he can definitely push us into the win column. I have no idea why we don't just cut him.

I think Willy/KP/Baker/Kuz should be allowed to be on the floor together and Jeff should maximize that. Those 4 need to develop their chemistry on both ends of the floor. While I want all of them back next year, I am not sure Kuz will be here.

Randle/Plumlee/N'Dour should see fixed amount of minutes going forward.

They didn't cut him because maybe they are thinking of keeping him. What else explains it?


Will he have any value in the off season in a S&T? Not likely.

Can Phil basically admit his key off season move (Rose/Noah) was a complete bust? I think to save face Phil may shoot this organization in the foot.

If they can't beat a depleted, struggling Golden State team at home, then what hope is there for this squad? Long term?

We basically had one bright spot yesterday - KP.

This is outright trolling. The team we played was the one that went to two consecutive NBA finals and won one of them. To call that depleted is just STOOPID.

WHICH IS ALSO AN EXCELLENT EXAMPLE OF THE THOUGHT THAT GOES INTO THE ANNUAL, CONTINUAL WHINING ABOUT TANKING BEING JUST STUPID AS WELL.

Maybe Phil could just get Hinkie to join his staff and we would all (mostly) be happy rooting for MSixersG.

You guys spend a lot of time commenting on the internet?
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3/6/2017  10:01 AM
we will get a damned good point prospect if we can get a pick in the top 8... so we need to finish with the fifth worst record to ensure that that happens. Obviously I would love to have a top 2 but beggars can't be choosers... just PLEASE just ank so we get us a blue chipper at PG
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nyknickzingis
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3/6/2017  10:03 AM    LAST EDITED: 3/6/2017  10:09 AM
BRIGGS wrote:
nyknickzingis wrote:The team was 14-10.
Now they're 25-38.
They have gone 11-28. That's a little less than .300 level play over the last 40 games.

They have 19 games left. So they won 5 or 6 of them. It's not the worst thing if that happens. Teams have drafted great talent around 10th or lower. Where did Philly pick up Dario Saric? He was a nice get for them. Where did Boston get Paul Pierce? He was a 10th pick.

Let things fall into place. The team has done so much self inflicted wounding already, that I see no reason it won't contiue to shoot itself in the foot and blow games. What I do like is what Lance Thomas is bringing to the team. Ron Baker. We're seeing their effort and defense be infectious. KP is playing much better defense as well. I want to see this group try, because most of them are coming back next year.

If they go to work thinking about what their summer plans are, man that will be ugly and it will be bad for next year. You want players that give a damn, that want to win and that compete hard. I don't want guys who don't give a crap and already checked out. Many tanking teams have that kind of mindset and those kinds of players. Screw that.

Absolutely foolish train of thought. Think like this-- the last two seasons we had aberrations to start the seasons but rea lly we are a .300 team a .300 team NEEDS top tier talent to add. We need as much amno to run for a top 3 pick as any club in the nba please stop telling me how much talent we have--- we stink and we need better players. At the same time it gives the Knicks 15 games to look at younger players and maybe a couple of d leaguers. What do we get out of playing Rose and melo? Nothing


The team needs top talent that can be top talent right away. You are in hopes that the players you draft at 4 5 or 6 in a draft are guaranteed top players vs players you could draft at 9, 10 or 11.

Dirk Nowitzki was picked 9th.
Paul Pierce was picked 10th.
Paul George was picked 10th.
Kobe Bryant was picked 13th.
Kawahi Lenoard was picked 15th.
Isiah Thomas was picked 60th.

All I'm saying is usually in each draft, there are 1 or 2 clear cut franchise players, and the rest of it is about how the player develops, how your situation allows him to grow and whether this player works hard enough.

I don't look at this draft and say, man we are getting another Chis Paul, or Lebron James or someone like that. We are not even going to get someone like Towns or Kristaps at 4, 5 or 6. There are some good players in this draft after the top 2, but it's not like any of them are guaranteed to be great players.

I don't want a losing culture installed on Kristaps, Willy, Lance, Ron, and other players I think will be with the team for a while. It's really a bad thing to do, and proven to be a very hard thing to get out of. Yes you look like a great young team on paper, but not a single one of those teams actually ends up becoming any good right away and it takes you getting lucky and getting a franchise talent like a Kevin Durant, Lebron James, Chris Paul to actually turn it around soon.

I've made countless posts about the examples of teams that have been tanking and still are not even close to good. They're still stuck looking for a player even as good as Kristaps. We already have a really good player, we need to stay competitive and then draft the best possible, regardless where we are. The fact is with Willy, Kristaps and the way Gaines has scouted, I feel good about whereever we draft that we will get someone good.

If I knew tanking would lead to a top 2 pick, and a guaranteed franchise player, I would do it. It's not the case. We're not in that position where we're going to finish with a bottom 2 record. Teams with talent like KP, Rose, Melo, do not fiish bottom 2 in the league. We need to make changes, we need to draft well, but competing should not be thrown out of the window. All the Knicks have to do is make sure they draft well, regardless of position in the draft.

The Nuggets best player is not Emmanuel Mudiay. He was their "tank" pick. Yet he borerline sucks. Guess who is their franchise player possibly moving forward? Jokic. He was not a tank pick, he was a great late pick. The Spurs franchise has kept running for years because of great scouting, drafting international players late in the draft outside of the top 10 of the lottery. To me they are the best model to follow.

Willy is not a great talent, but he is better than alot of first round picks in his draft. He is probably right now a top 20 player from his draft. That's how it works. You succeed by drafting well, regardless of position. I trust Gaines will give Phil the right information. I think Phil will draft whomever he feels is the best talent at that time. I hope we get a hard working kid, someone who is not just happy being a millionaire and putting up stats. I am excited about the lottery, but I'm never excited about making players like Kristaps, Willy, Lance, Ron (and others who will be back next year and maybe for a few years) play in meaningless games where it's so obvious a tank job is going on.

Let things play out. We stay healthy, Rose and KP play well here on out (like they have been) and we win 6-7 more games. We draft 10th or 11th instead of 5th or 6th. So what, it doesn't mean we are guaranteed a horrible player and the team drafting at 5 or 6 is guaranteed a great player. Let things play out. Falling lower in 2015 (4th instead of 2nd) made the decision of drafting KP over Russell or Okafaor much easier. You don't know how things will play out and what talent is available at 9-10-11. I also think if we're at 9/10/11 in the draft, and we do well this offseaosn in a trade, who we draft and some role players in free agency, we will be in playoff contention maybe next season. Moving from 9/10/11 in the draft to 15 and lower is easier than moving from 4/5/6 to there.

nixluva
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3/6/2017  10:28 AM
IMO we have 3 picks and the reason to Tank is in order to INCREASE our chances of landing a STUD and the 2nd rd picks are where you hope to get lucky and find another Willy type of player. This is a GREAT opportunity to try and do something we haven't done in a very long time... build a core thru the draft!!! Steph, Klay and Draymond is what we need to try to do. 3 core guys from the Draft.
nyknickzingis
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3/6/2017  10:33 AM    LAST EDITED: 3/6/2017  10:35 AM
nixluva wrote:IMO we have 3 picks and the reason to Tank is in order to INCREASE our chances of landing a STUD and the 2nd rd picks are where you hope to get lucky and find another Willy type of player. This is a GREAT opportunity to try and do something we haven't done in a very long time... build a core thru the draft!!! Steph, Klay and Draymond is what we need to try to do. 3 core guys from the Draft.

Dray was a second round pick.
Klay was drafted late lottery - exactly where we are probably going to draft, actually maybe we wind up drafting even higher.

If the Knicks draft good but not great players, KP has to become that great player. Which is a huge toss up. However I see no exact science where if you draft top 5 you are guaranteed a star, while if you don't, you will not get one.

We just need to draft well, period. If there's a Klay Thompson like sharpshooting wing out there in the draft available at 8/9/10 or so, we should definitely grab him. Didn't even Devin Booker get drafted pretty late in the KP draft? I have to believe this is where Phil has to earn his stripes big time. You can not mess these picks up and draft a bust/backup. We need to draft really well or maybe consider trading the pick for a young in prime player who is good.

My only hope is that wherever we are in the draft we draft someone at the perimeter wing. We so badly need some youth, athleticism, perimeter talent. At 3/2/1 doesn't matter. Preferably 2 or 1, but I'm open to any perimeter talent. Lets see what happens.

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3/6/2017  10:34 AM
t(h)ank you for this t(h)read...much needed for the long term benefits of team.
Nixluva is posting triangle screen grabs, even when nobody asks - Fishmike. LOL So are we going to reference that thread like the bible now? "The thread of Wroten Page 14 post 9" - EnySpree
meloshouldgo
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3/6/2017  10:35 AM
Nyknickzingis - I don't think we are asking anyone to lose on purpose, so this talk about losing culture is a bit hyperbole and a bit disingenuous. It's not like we have a winning culture to start with, not possible with Melo on the team. It is similar to saying talking means we'll be rooting for the sixers or some other generic response. The fact remains that without tanking and even with an "established superstar" we have barely been better than the Sixers over the last 8 years. At least they have the opportunity to change that everytime they draft. We just resign outtakes to another 30 win season.

Again no one asked the players to throw games, I want our young core to play hard and compete. I just want Melo and Rose shut down or cut as the case maybe. The 30 win experiment is over and the best way to add talent is thorough the draft. There's no formula or guarantee but the earlier you pick the better the odds, that much is established.

The only things that trickle down are wages and horse shit
nyknickzingis
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3/6/2017  10:42 AM    LAST EDITED: 3/6/2017  10:46 AM
meloshouldgo wrote:Nyknickzingis - I don't think we are asking anyone to lose on purpose, so this talk about losing culture is a bit hyperbole and a bit disingenuous. It's not like we have a winning culture to start with, not possible with Melo on the team. It is similar to saying talking means we'll be rooting for the sixers or some other generic response. The fact remains that without tanking and even with an "established superstar" we have barely been better than the Sixers over the last 8 years. At least they have the opportunity to change that everytime they draft. We just resign outtakes to another 30 win season.

Again no one asked the players to throw games, I want our young core to play hard and compete. I just want Melo and Rose shut down or cut as the case maybe. The 30 win experiment is over and the best way to add talent is thorough the draft. There's no formula or guarantee but the earlier you pick the better the odds, that much is established.


There is no winning culture, but there is also not a losing/tank culture here.
What you're saying is basically purposely sit out Rose/Melo. What do you think that tells KP, Willy and other guys? It's a tank project. Players are not stupid. They know enough about the league to know when a tank job is going on.

I know the benefits of drafting at 4, 5 or 6 vs 9, 10 or 11. However I don't see the positive in this case. Why? We already have some players to work with. This is not a complete overhaul happening like was the case heading into the 2015 offseason/draft. This year we will be making some changes, but not an overhaul. I think player development in the players we have already is important.

Media is knocking the Triangle, and Phil wanting to see players do their best rest of the way, but it gives you something for next season. You see who actually helps winning games. You see who can do what in a role next year.

Again I'd have a completely different opinion if the draft had a Lebron James in it, or someone like that, where being really bad could lead to a franchise alrering player. Even if we are really bad rest of the way (as in lose almost every game) we are not guaranteed a franchise altering player. For all we know, we may get the next Mudiay. Or Hezonja. They were picked in 2015 right after KP.

If the argument lets go get the 1, 2 or 3 pick, I can see that. I can somewhat roll with that, But if that were our goal, we needed to have traded Melo and cut Rose, and found a way to sit KP by trade deadline. It's too late to go for that "goal".

I also want to remind fans that the Knicks may not get better than Rose in free agency. If Rose is willing to stay at current salary he may be the best free agent we could sign. We may be best served drafting a 2 or 3, keeping Rose, Holiday and using the MLE to sign another rotation player. Then try to convince Melo to move on. This is still something the Knicks have to ponder, because they are not going to be in play for CP3, Curry or any of the top free agents. Cutting Rose means you lost him for nothing. If he is willing to take a 4 year deal, you could always move him in the future. The more and more he is playing healthy and explosive the more and more teams are seeing him as healthy and good again. I don't think it's smart to just cut a talent like Rose, before atleats trying to negotiate a contract with him in free agency that may be 1) something you could live with 2) something you could trade in the future.

nyknickzingis
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3/6/2017  10:48 AM
Anyway according to Briggs, Knicks don't have any good players.
KP is also not a good player.
Ok, I give up.
There is not a single good player on the Knicks.

Not a single player who is seen around the league as one of the top 5 young players in the league, an emerging star, despite dealing with multiple health issues already has wound up giving the team 18/7/2 a night. Already more advanced at Dirk at the same age in both production and stats.

Yeah we don't have anything good to work with.

Typical ... grass is always greener.

Let's get ready to .....TANK!

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